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Study Finds Fracking Chemicals Didn't Pollute Water

RoccamOccam sends this news from the Associated Press: "A landmark federal study on hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, shows no evidence that chemicals from the natural gas drilling process moved up to contaminate drinking water aquifers at a western Pennsylvania drilling site. After a year of monitoring, the researchers found that the chemical-laced fluids used to free gas trapped deep below the surface stayed thousands of feet below the shallower areas that supply drinking water."

237 comments

  1. Sounds iffy by damn_registrars · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How can they be sure that they didn't detect the fracking chemicals when the industry continues to refuse to reveal the identity of said chemicals? It is nearly impossible to do a study where you watch for every conceivable chemical that ever has or ever could exist.

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    1. Re:Sounds iffy by gandhi_2 · · Score: 2, Funny

      I know, right?

      It is virutally impossible to detect Dihydroxen Monoxide once it gets into the ground water.

    2. Re:Sounds iffy by dlakelan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's pretty easy to run water through a gas chromatograph / mass spec and see if it has anything other than water in it, and how much of that stuff it has. A bit harder to figure out exactly what the pollutant is, but if you have a sample of the fracking water it's easy to look at the peaks the fracking water has and see if they appear in the drinking water even if you don't know the identity of the chemicals.

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    3. Re:Sounds iffy by MightyMartian · · Score: 5, Informative

      The way I read it (yes, I read the article) is that they put a marker of some kind into the chemical brew being slugged into the ground, and found no sign of that marker in ground water. Now obviously there are still questions to be raised, but still, in and of itself, this seems a pretty reasonable way to determine groundwater contamination.

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    4. Re:Sounds iffy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you would RTFA, you would notice that they're not just testing the drinking water for ytterbium contamination, they are using seismographic technologies to watch the spread of liquids in the fracking boreholes. That's how they can tell that one well's liquids migrated 1,800 feet from the target region (which is also noted to still be around a mile below the surface and far from any drinking water).

    5. Re:Sounds iffy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...found no sign of that marker in ground water.

      And ain't that a relief, the marker was dimethylmercury.

    6. Re:Sounds iffy by Herkum01 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It depends on the marker that they use. If the marker is something that is not as soluble or emulates the characteristic of the fracking recipe. You also have the problem of how they injected the marker versus how they normally proceed. A concern was that they were more careful in projects where they were injecting the marker rather than how they normally do business. Finally, Pennsylvania is not the only place they do fracking different soils and naturally occurring fault lines were major concerns.

    7. Re:Sounds iffy by rsborg · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The way I read it (yes, I read the article) is that they put a marker of some kind into the chemical brew being slugged into the ground, and found no sign of that marker in ground water. Now obviously there are still questions to be raised, but still, in and of itself, this seems a pretty reasonable way to determine groundwater contamination.

      How is that even reasonable? Why not measure the actual contaminants and check elevation levels?

      Here's a question that immediately comes up for me: What if the markers have different rock/soil permeability compared to the chemicals used in fracking? Are those markers closely enough in characteristics to the chemicals used as to be valid for purposes of testing exposure/pollution?

      How about another one - why is the DoE doing this test as opposed to the EPA (who are likely more versed in measuring pullution)?

      Not testing the presence of the actual chemicals/pollutants doesn't pass the sniff test for me. Something stinks here.

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    8. Re:Sounds iffy by hedwards · · Score: 0

      Yes, but if that's truly the case, then where precisely are the chemicals coming from that are making the water flammable?

      If, for the sake of argument, it really isn't the result of fracking, then there's still work that needs to be done to identify where the pollution is coming from. And yes, correlation is not causation, but it seems like a bit of a coincidence that the flammable water just happened to show up in regions with fracking after they began fracking.

    9. Re:Sounds iffy by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      It is nearly impossible to do a study where you watch for every conceivable chemical that ever has or ever could exist.

      No it isn't. You just take out the water, take out the normal minerals found in ground water, and then see what is left. What they found was that nothing was left. Which is exactly what they should have expected. Methane is far more mobile than any fracking chemicals, and was unable to permeate the overlaying layers of shale for millions of years. So how could the fracking chemicals do it? Answer: they didn't.

    10. Re:Sounds iffy by oreaq · · Score: 4, Informative

      I agree, it wouldn't be that difficult. But that is not what was done in the study. An undisclosed amount of four unnamed marker chemicals where added to the chemicals used for fracking by a company at one fracking site. Within the one year the study has been running, non of these markers where detected in a predetermined "monitoring zone". Maybe the study has some value, but since there is no citation in the article and the article contains no facts beside the ones I just mentioned, it is really hard to tell.

    11. Re:Sounds iffy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yes, but if that's truly the case, then where precisely are the chemicals coming from that are making the water flammable?

      That's methane. Any natural gas well can leak methane into the aquifer. If the top of the well shaft is poorly sealed, that can happen, with or without fracking.

    12. Re:Sounds iffy by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

      Regardless of the results of the study, when a person turns on the tap and when what use to be potable drinking water is now the source for a Flair, it begs the question, "What Changed?"

    13. Re:Sounds iffy by Jarik+C-Bol · · Score: 2, Interesting

      One would imagine that if the marker was significantly different in solubility (or other characteristics) from the fracking solution, It would cause problems with said fracking solution, such as changing its viscosity, precipitating out or floating out, or any number of things. Based on this reasonable assumption, One would imagine that the marker was chosen to be able to be mixed into the fracking solution and remain a homogenous part of that solution. Thus, if any of the solution got where it was not supposed to be, it would show. If the marker had a predilection for separating itself from the solution, it would be more possible to throw a false positive (most likely way it would separate out would be to be lighter than the fracking solution and rise out).

      But thats just my best guess, based on how *i* would come at a project like that.

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    14. Re:Sounds iffy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Translation: This study doesn't match my preconceived notions, so I must find some way to ignore it.

    15. Re:Sounds iffy by Jarik+C-Bol · · Score: 3, Informative

      this effect also can occur naturally, without drilling. (I knew a person lived far from any drilling who could light their water taps. They would go out instantly from the water pouring with the gas, but it made an interesting flash.)

      --
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    16. Re:Sounds iffy by desdinova+216 · · Score: 1

      I presume that was supposed to be Flare.

    17. Re:Sounds iffy by virtig01 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yes, but if that's truly the case, then where precisely are the chemicals coming from that are making the water flammable?

      It's not the chemicals that make water flammable, but methane.

      Of course methane exists in the shale where they're fracking, but it can also exist at various layers of the ground above the shale. Pretty much anywhere organic material is decomposing, methane can exist. I would bet that the origin of any methane found in drinking water is likely above the shale. It's possible that the seismic activity caused by fracking disturbs the ground high above, releasing methane into a nearby water source. But in some places methane is just emitted naturally; in the old days, people could take advantage of relatively shallow methane as a fuel source.

    18. Re:Sounds iffy by Freddybear · · Score: 3, Informative

      Nothing changed. That area has had methane in the ground water since long before fracking ever happened.

    19. Re:Sounds iffy by Xicor · · Score: 5, Informative

      Nothing changed. That area has had methane in the ground water since long before fracking ever happened.

      this article only talks about the fracking chemicals being leaked into the groundwater... it does not mention the other problem with fracking, which is that it causes fault lines to shift and ruptures in the ground due to increased pressure. the latter is what causes methane to leak into the groundwater, which then gets into drinking water. methane is not one of the fracking chemicals, and therefore the study didnt mention it.

    20. Re:Sounds iffy by PRMan · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Again, I wish I had mod points today.

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    21. Re:Sounds iffy by Anne_Nonymous · · Score: 1

      >> ytterbium contamination

      Leave my bium out of this.

    22. Re:Sounds iffy by mellon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Translation: the study is contradicted by known data, so it would be interesting to understand why.

      FTFY.

    23. Re:Sounds iffy by Freddybear · · Score: 1

      Fracking wells themselves are too deep for that to matter very much, also the pressure of fracking is momentary, much more like blasting in a mine. The problem you describe is more likely to be caused by a brine-injection well, which is done at shallower depths and is intended for long-term storage of the injected brine at pressure. I know, we've had several small earthquakes here in NE Ohio resulting from improperly operated brine injection wells.

    24. Re:Sounds iffy by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      It is nearly impossible to do a study where you watch for every conceivable chemical that ever has or ever could exist.

      On the contrary, mass spectrometry makes it pretty easy. You'll see everything that's in the sample. You might not be able to *identify* everything, but you'll see everything. Presumably they were able to identify everything, or they wouldn't have published this result.

    25. Re:Sounds iffy by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      Translation: the study is contradicted by known data,

      [citation please]

    26. Re:Sounds iffy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Because who should you trust - engineers and scientists who have worked on energy production for decades or fearmongering alarmists who want to shut down energy production in America by any means necessary?

    27. Re:Sounds iffy by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      fearmongering alarmists who want to shut down energy production in America by any means necessary?

      Snicker snort. You make them sound like dangerous terrists. Been reading Zodiac for trollspiration?

      --
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    28. Re:Sounds iffy by kevmeister · · Score: 4, Insightful

      People seem unable to read papers any longer. This is especially true of the news media. The study on earthquakes repeatedly pointed out that there was NO evidence that fracking itself led to earthquakes. It said that the practice of pumping the toxic waste from fracking into deep wells for disposal, a common, but not universal practice, could and did lead to quakes.

      Back in the mid 1960s Colorado experienced a series of quakes, some strong enough to cause damage. Those earthquakes were tracked to the use of deep well disposal at the Rocky Mountain Arsenal. The well was used for disposal of chemical warfare agents (toxic gases and their components). The strongest was felt quite strongly in Trinidad, CO, some 200 miles south of the well. I grew up there and felt it personally. This led to the discontinuation of this disposal method.

      I am simply amazed that half a century after this well documented and researched event that it seems to have been forgotten.

      --
      Kevin Oberman, Network Engineer, Retired
    29. Re:Sounds iffy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know, right?

      It is virutally impossible to detect Dihydroxen Monoxide once it gets into the ground water.

      I think they actually spent all their time and money trying to detect Unobtainium.

    30. Re:Sounds iffy by sycodon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Translation: the study is contradicted by made up data, so it would be interesting to understand why.

      FTFY

      --
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    31. Re:Sounds iffy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey! How dare you suggest that professional and scientists know more about this than a bunch of pimply faced geeks at Slashdot.

    32. Re:Sounds iffy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Because not being a goddamn idiot and insisting that we make sure we're not shitting where we eat means we want to shut down energy production in America by any means necessary?

    33. Re:Sounds iffy by Mashiki · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Snicker snort. You make them sound like dangerous terrists. Been reading Zodiac for trollspiration?

      Funny that the AC is right on the money. Perhaps you should be paying attention to the various environmental groups that are running amok and protesting everything from building new power plants, to transporting oil by pipeline. Because "it hurts the environment...says their feelings."

      --
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    34. Re:Sounds iffy by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      Coincidence is not causality.
      Old underground fuel tanks, factories, ag chemicals, dry cleaners, the list of potential causes goes on and on. Not to mention that the the oil industry got it's start in that area because crude oil was bubbling up in springs and wells and at least one spring in the area has had flammable water from methane contamination since the area was settled or invaded if one must be politically correct.

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    35. Re:Sounds iffy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More importantly, what do these "study researches" get for there "findings". They can map out the water table, but these chemicals are claimed to penetrate through out the soil/shale/rock and seep into the water tables. I think any study that comes out has to be questioned, as well as those studies that claim of poisoning. Congress says there are over 200 chemical compounds in each "trade secret" fracking medium.

    36. Re:Sounds iffy by damn_registrars · · Score: 2

      It's pretty easy to run water through a gas chromatograph / mass spec and see if it has anything other than water in it, and how much of that stuff it has.

      I do MS and MS data interpretation on a regular basis and I need to point out to you that you are oversimplifying the situation. MS detection is limited by - at the very least - two important factors; the ion source and the ion detector. If you don't know what compounds you are looking for, you may well not be able to ionize them using any of your common methods (water and most alcohols are great examples of this; they usually are shed in the ionization process). Similarly if you don't know the appropriate mass window for your molecule you may miss them in detection completely as every detector has its sweet spot where it does a better job of detecting ions.

      In other words, mass spec is great but it is no cure all. A MS experiment can be doomed to failure if there is inadequate advanced knowledge of the sample that is being examined.

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    37. Re:Sounds iffy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's dissolved Methane gas you fucking moron, and in most if not ALL places the fucking water did that before they dropped the first damn drill hole much less did any fracking.

      Fucking relevant, non-partisan citation, please. Otherwise, you're not helping dissuade people from rational concerns.

      The energy companies have displayed blatantly dangerous levels of neglect countless times before now in every area they touch. To suggest that they are, in this case, suddenly without flaw, that all concerns and reports are pure nonsense and that the public needn't pay any attention to the things going on in their regions, is an affront to anybody with a working brain.

      Yes, you've picked up a smart boy factoid about dissolved methane. Bully for you. That doesn't give you the authority to mouth off with such high handed belligerence, and certainly not without providing some measure of proof that your factoid is both accurate and relevant to the people being directly affected.

    38. Re:Sounds iffy by damn_registrars · · Score: 1

      It is nearly impossible to do a study where you watch for every conceivable chemical that ever has or ever could exist.

      On the contrary, mass spectrometry makes it pretty easy

      Mass spec is not a magic bullet. For reasons I mentioned to an earlier reply, it cannot identify all possible compounds in solution. Being as the fracking mix itself is always shrouded in "trade secret" cover it is impossible to know what to watch for and hence the likelihood of finding anything is not real great. Are there polar compounds in the fracking mix? We don't know. Are there highly charged compounds in the fracking mix? We don't know. Are there volatile organics in the fracking mix? We don't know that, either.

      Those are just a few classes of compounds that can make mass spectrometry more difficult than what you describe, especially if the experiment is being run in a semi-blind fashion.

      Hence the problem remains that we don't know what the compounds are that we are supposed to look for. Without knowing even a few simple chemical facts about them, our chances of detecting them isn't great.

      --
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    39. Re:Sounds iffy by hedwards · · Score: 1

      The water around here doesn't do that. And the people complaining about this didn't have flammable water until the oil companies started drillling.

      Whether the chemicals are causing it or just the typical oil industry carelessness is a moot point. In either case, it's the oil companies' fault and they should be required to behave in a more cautious fashion.

    40. Re:Sounds iffy by IdolizingStewie · · Score: 1

      No, Pennsylvania is not the only place, but it is by far one of the shallowest and most naturally fractured/faulted. One would expect groundwater contamination to be more likely there than in any other area I know of.

    41. Re:Sounds iffy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Virtually impossible to detect water H2O when it get's into ground water huh?

    42. Re:Sounds iffy by Gorobei · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, it was a totally solid study. From the article:

      paragraph 1: "A landmark federal study"
      paragraph 2: "After a year of monitoring"
      paragraph 3: "Although the results are preliminary"
      paragraph 4: "Drilling fluids tagged with unique markers were injected more than 8,000 feet below the surface"
      paragraph 8: "The study marked the first time that a drilling company let government scientists inject special tracers into the fracking fluid"

      See, fracking is totally safe. A single "landmark" study proves it. When the fracking was 1.5 miles deep, after one year, no bad effects were observed. Also, this was the one study allowed by any drilling company.

      Sheesh, what are you people concerned about?

    43. Re:Sounds iffy by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      Sheesh, what are you people concerned about?

      That the unique markers might pollute the environment, of course. :-)

      --
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    44. Re:Sounds iffy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1 year isn't very long. how are they going to move in, pollute the place, move out and escape responsibility all within a year?

    45. Re:Sounds iffy by thoughtlover · · Score: 1

      Which gives me reason to think waste water could seep into an aquifer via a fault that developed as a result of deep well injection. This study was only done for one year. I really don't think that's nearly long enough to truly understand all the variables involved, much less that they were only tracking a limited, unspecified group of chemicals. The fact that the industry can use unspecified chemicals to frack seems like a license to pollute. Especially when it's near-impossible to know what to test for it you don't know what's been used.

      "This is good news," said Duke University scientist Rob Jackson, who was not involved with the study. He called it a "useful and important approach" to monitoring fracking, but cautioned that the single study doesn't prove that fracking can't pollute, since geology and industry practices vary widely in Pennsylvania and across the nation.

      Of course any federal study will side with corporations. All three branches are solidly pro-business and we saw the Clean Water Act and Clean Air and SWDA dismantled by Bush/Cheney in 2005. Fracking is the bastard child of Halliburton and this industry couldn't be doing what they're doing unless they got that exemption.

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    46. Re:Sounds iffy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No you are wrong. You obviously know little about GC work. The column length and pakings are specific to the class of material you wish to analyze. Carrier and detector selection matters as well. Considerable time and effort has been expended to create packings that can properly discriminate between even well known and mundane substances. Packings can be reactive with introduced material. They can destroy the substance you wish to detect. Even when you know what you are shooting in the GC it can be a challenge to perform a suitable separation for some things. That's a qualitative separation. A quantitative separation can be more difficult. If water is involved then it becomes more difficult. Many packings that are required to analyze entire classes of substances have no tolerance for water at all. The water destroys the packing. So you would have to extract from the water in a way that doesn't destroy your unknowns and then prep and shoot them.You had better get you extraction right....no wait that's your multiple sets of extractions since different materials require different extraction methods. The things that are needed go on and on. It is not "pretty easy" or trivial at all. In fact if someone claimed they could detect any unknown in any form in water then they would not be credible. I would trust that a comprehensive elemental analysis could be performed. I wouldn't accept that comprehensive analysis if the people performing that analysis acted as though it was trivial.

    47. Re:Sounds iffy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is possible to detect extraneous apostrophes though.

    48. Re:Sounds iffy by AmiMoJo · · Score: 0

      The problem in situations like this is that if there are earthquakes it is extremely difficult to prove the cause and extremely expensive to she the frackers for compensation. That's why people object to it. When your drinking water becomes flammable your only recourse is years, even decades of expensive litigation during which time your house is next to worthless. At the end you might not even win.

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    49. Re:Sounds iffy by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      Regardless of the results of the study, when a person turns on the tap and when what use to be potable drinking water is now the source for a Flair, it begs the question, "What Changed?"

      This happens without fracking in an area, too.

      The real question is: Why do people want to assume it's fracking?

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    50. Re:Sounds iffy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When your drinking water becomes flammable

      I have family in Wyoming, and people have been lighting their sink faucets on fire as a party "trick" in that area for many years. It didn't start with the fracking. Maybe it's gotten worse, nobody really knows for sure.
      There are a lot of maybe's and unknowns, but when you're talking about the amount of money involved in the energy industry, and all the global politics involved, you need a little bit more than some maybe's and anecdotal reports by NIMBY types if you want to shut the whole thing down.

    51. Re:Sounds iffy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Regardless of the results of the study, when a person turns on the tap and when what use to be potable drinking water is now the source for a Flair, it begs the question, "What Changed?"

      This happens without fracking in an area, too.

      The real question is: Why do people want to assume it's fracking?

      Because that land you bought and built a house on 30 years ago is still selling very low due to the housing market crash. But if you can sue a company for polluting the water and ruining your property value, you can walk away with a settlement or judgement far in excess of the actual current market value of the property. And you don't even have to pay the closing costs.

    52. Re:Sounds iffy by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      There are now, hundreds of thousands of fracking wells, they are testing a one site, saying it is safer and then saying all the other sites are safe. Hmm, bullshit much. Let's guess they hand picked the site where existing geophysics records indicate a strong forecast of safety.

      How about something meaning full. Testing of 1,000 randomly selected sites to get a true indication of across the board safety.

      --
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    53. Re:Sounds iffy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And the people complaining about this didn't have flammable water until the oil companies started drillling.

      And that's where you are wrong. At least some of them DID have this problem- methane vents have existed on water wells in many of those areas for a very long time.
      There is also a long history of people falling sick or even dying back in the old days when they'd hand-dig the wells- it was common practice in those areas to have a candle lowered in the digging hole. If the flame suddenly changed color or went out, you got the fuck out before you suffocated.

      C'mon people, let's remember one of our Standard Slashdot Mantras- the plural of "anecdote" is not "evidence". And these reports people are making are just anecdotal. In all of the controlled studies done so far, there hasn't been any indication that the methane "contamination" is new or a result of fracking specifically.

    54. Re:Sounds iffy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even if they detected low to no chemicals in the aquifers above the highly toxic chemicals used for fracing operations, this most assuredly does not mean these chemicals are safely contained in the earth so as not to move elsewhere and show up in the groundwater in the future. One earthquake, for instance, could instantly change the validity of their study.

    55. Re:Sounds iffy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I should trust all the engineers and scientists who proved there's no such thing as global warming? I work for that company using a gold rectangular outline for a logo and we had to fly 175 more miles to find the ice shelf we went to last year. We almost had to turn around. What we found along the way was a bunch of drowned polar bears.

      Fact is, I've learned to trust nobody, but you can predict all the influences and outcomes by following the money. Whoever has the most to gain will apply everything possible to make it happen. That you can trust. Figure out whoever paid for some "study" and you'll find the built-in prejudice, left or right.

    56. Re:Sounds iffy by swiftdr · · Score: 1

      who modded this troll?

    57. Re:Sounds iffy by davester666 · · Score: 1

      The value of the study is that now there is a so-called "independent" study the oil companies can trot in front of courts and the gov't saying that fracking doesn't pollute groundwater.

      Nevermind that the location was probably cherry-picked for geological features that prevent the contamination, which don't exist in most other locations where they are/want to frack.

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    58. Re:Sounds iffy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This and MANY more tests need to be continued for 20 to 100yrs to ensure NO drinking water contamination happens EVER!!

    59. Re:Sounds iffy by kyjellyfish · · Score: 1

      Curious why this post is considered "trolling"... Tongue seemed firmly imbedded in cheek, or have we lost the ability to identify a faciscious remark when we see it?

    60. Re:Sounds iffy by mellon · · Score: 1

      Sure, no problem. Just because someone says something that doesn't agree with your opinion does not mean that they are wrong.

    61. Re:Sounds iffy by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 2

      The study you don't like said they didn't find fracking chemicals. The study you cite doesn't say anything about fracking chemicals. It says they found methane and propane. That's not good, but it's not the same thing. My request for refuting data still stands.

    62. Re:Sounds iffy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People just don't want to accept facts.

      Standard argument:

      - Point out facts when study is favoring what I want.
      - Discredit study when facts do no support what I want.

      You are a child, not a scientist.

      (The DoE does the study because that's who had the budget. And it has to do with getting energy.)

    63. Re:Sounds iffy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you don't live near Arkansas man. There is A HUGE correlation with rise of earthquakes near fracking zones...

    64. Re:Sounds iffy by mellon · · Score: 2

      The advocates of this study want you to think that hydrofracking doesn't affect groundwater, and that the study says that, but of course it doesn't say that, and the link I gave you shows evidence to the contrary. Having said that, since you ask, here's an EPA study from Wyoming that shows contamination from fracking fluids: ReportOnPavilion.pdf

    65. Re:Sounds iffy by mellon · · Score: 2

      You can call any data made up data, but I'd like you to read over the extremely detailed study they did in Pavillion, Wyoming, and in particular the conclusions from the report they did on this study in 2011, and tell me again all about how you've concluded that the data is made up.

    66. Re:Sounds iffy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      just look for a change in what's in the water. and btw, there is already extensive testing regularly required for water quality everywhere.

    67. Re: Sounds iffy by soycaca · · Score: 1

      If you use a marker like dimethyl mercury, you will notice it is 3 times as dense as water, and 4-5+ times more dense than a large amount of alcohols and hydrocarbons (gasoline and light oil products). It also does not dissolve in water. So it is a marker that just sinks. Nice.

    68. Re:Sounds iffy by epiccollision · · Score: 2

      you'd think with all the subsurface methane floating around why would they be fraking at all???? interesting how there is no biogenic methane projects harnessing all this free floating methane right in the water table this whole time...you don't even have to use the water you can just recycle it back into the aquifer after the gas has separated itself once brought to the surface and then have the bacteria replenish the supply, so renewable...stupid humans...drilling giant holes in the ground and breaking up geological structures just to get something that is available in vast quantities just below the surface....except that's not true...at all...it may take a few critical thinking skills but if as many people got methane just from drilling water wells....fraking seems a little silly...yes there is biogenic methane in well water....you can rarely find enough to catch things on fire if vented properly and you wouldn't be able to do it more then once a year...

    69. Re:Sounds iffy by epiccollision · · Score: 1

      please don't call people "fucking moron"s when you have little knowledge of the differences between biogenic and thermogenic methane....yes well can be contaminated with biogenic methane, but they know this when they drill the well, and don't let people drink from it...that have done the testing for the differences between the 2 methanes and in a large majority of cases the methane is thermogenic coming from deep under the aquifer...and the reason the oil companies are supplying them with drinking water, not out of corporate kindness....

    70. Re:Sounds iffy by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Any natural gas well can leak methane into the aquifer. If the top of the well shaft is poorly sealed, that can happen, with or without fracking.

      In fact (not that anyone in this hysteria is interested in facts), all natural gas fields, whether developed by conventional production techniques, hydraulic fracturing, or whether completely undeveloped, can leak hydrocarbons (including methane) into the overlying formations. Sometimes we see it on the seismic as a "gas chimney", sometimes it's just a faint bright spot (acoustic impedance mismatch) on the underside of less porous rock units, sometimes it's below the level of visibility. But they all do it.

      What leads to an accumulation of hydrocarbons (which may or may not be commercially viable), is that the loss rate described above is lower than the supply rate, be it by leaking from deeper traps, or actually cooking up new hydrocarbons from in situ organic matter.

      Anyway, who cares about the fuss over fracking? Either it's going to be allowed (in which case it needs tight regulation, not American regulation) and I'll get work doing it, or eventually the other hydrocarbon accumulations will be depleted and I'll get paid to find new ones. Same difference in both cases.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    71. Re:Sounds iffy by Magius_AR · · Score: 1

      The real question is: Why do people want to assume it's fracking?

      For the same reason they want to believe CO2 is Hitler. Can't have a Crusade without a heretic.

  2. That's even worse! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    So what the hell is being done about keeping your damn hippie drinking water from contaminating my fracking solution??

    1. Re:That's even worse! by Wrexs0ul · · Score: 1

      Didn't you know? (Soylent) Green energy IS hippies.

      --
      --- Need web hosting?
  3. But who was bribed ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We want names !

  4. OK, That's One (this is a preliminary study) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    One site, one test well. Big whoop.

    >shows no evidence that chemicals from the natural gas drilling process moved up to contaminate drinking water aquifers at a western Pennsylvania drilling site

    > one was injected with four different man-made tracers

    1. Re:OK, That's One (this is a preliminary study) by negRo_slim · · Score: 4, Insightful
      Who picked the site? What was the criteria for selection? A year of monitoring also seems to be pretty short to come to conclusions when we are talking about the most important resource on the planet.

      Jackson said the 1,800-foot fracture was very interesting, but also noted it is still a mile from the surface.

      Love the lackadaisical attitude.

      --
      On the Oregon Cost born and raised, On the beach is where I spent most of my days
    2. Re:OK, That's One (this is a preliminary study) by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Indeed: http://www.howstuffworks.com/search.php?terms=fracking

      The main issue does not appear to be that a properly administered site leaks fracking fluids into the drinking water... it's that most sites have no oversight and don't always handle the fracking fluids properly.

      While it's useful to know that there isn't contamination from the properly injected deep-seam fracking fluids, this doesn't really help the people who are victims of sites where the injection column lelaked at drinking water levels, extra fluid was dumped at ground level, or any of the other hundreds of possible things that could happen... happened.

    3. Re:OK, That's One (this is a preliminary study) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      If the 'injection column' (as you put it) leaks in any way, shape or form, at any depth, it isn't a fracking issue, and it never was. The wellbore wasn't cemented properly when the casing was installed, an operation that was completed months or even years before the frack company was hired by the well owner to come in and do the frac.

      Here's more food for thought: Such a well is going to leak hydrocarbons and water and whatever else comes up the wellbore, whether or not it gets fracked.

      Feel free to demand more regulation and oversight when an oil company drills and cases the well. The frackers are pretty tired of dealing with the heat for that shit.

    4. Re:OK, That's One (this is a preliminary study) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's OK to pump any chemicals you want then, because those marker chemicals didn't enter the drinking water in 12 months. And the earth has never had a shift that would break layers, enabling stuff in one layer to mix with another. Yes, there have been NO earthquakes in that area during the last 12 months, therefore the study proves it's safe to do whatever you want anywhere.

      The EPA should not be doing this study, btw, because they tend to complain when people contaminate the environment. The DoE, on the other hand, only care about getting energy.

    5. Re:OK, That's One (this is a preliminary study) by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      My point exactly. The actual fracking process itself, while it probably needs more study, seems generally pretty benign other than the huge volumes of water used. There are likely creative solutions for that too.

      The main problem is with the people who own the operation not doing proper prep and cleanup.

    6. Re:OK, That's One (this is a preliminary study) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't you have a house near a power line to complain about cancer for?

    7. Re:OK, That's One (this is a preliminary study) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On the subject of creative solutions to replace the need for water, there are already water-alternatives out there.

      Up here in Alberta there is a company called GasFrac that replaces water in their frac with a gel mix made up of mostly liquid propane gas. The advantage of not using water sure sits well with the environmentalists, but the real advantage to the paying customer is that the well doesn't have to stay on flowback for very long after the frac is complete, as the refinery is already set up to deal with large amounts of propane. The well can go back in to production almost immediately.

      Following a conventional frac, the well stays in a flowback mode for weeks after the frac is complete, as most of the water that was used returns to the surface and is collected in tanks. The produced water, as it is called, is then trucked to treatment plants and the water is separated and generally re-used for another frac.

      Most of the remaining water will return to the surface over the lifetime of the well, and the refineries are able to deal with small concentrations like that. They have to be, because the geological processes which form the fluid-bearing formations are unable to distinguish between hydrocarbons and water. It's very rare to find a well that has just hydrocarbon in it.

      Of course, the downside to a system like GasFrac's is that propane is more then willing to ignite, combust or generally go Boom without to much encouragement. Water is much more mellow about that sort of thing.

  5. One data point... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Assuming everything's above the board (so to speak), these results are all fine and dandy, but this single scenario doesn't itself make for a glowing endorsement of fracking's safety. For one thing, I'm wondering how the results from sites with fracking-related earthquakes might look.

    Does anyone really want to bet that aquifers near other fracking sites are just as fracking-chemical-free?

    1. Re:One data point... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Correct. They basically added marker chemicals to the injected fluid, and did not find traces of those chemicals (which one would assume stay disolved in the fluid) in the drinking water supply above the site. This does nothing to prove that the much more mobile methane gas released by fracking, which you see on videos making tap water flamable, are not still migrating more than the injected fluid. That won't stop the industry from declaring that this study means that Fracking is 100% safe in every way!

  6. Not possible by onyxruby · · Score: 5, Funny

    It's not possible! The results are politically incorrect and will go against the dogma of 'we must be miserable'. Not to worry, someone will quickly find a way to bury this, spin this or otherwise make this moot. We can't let science speak, that's what we have greenpeace for.

    1. Re:Not possible by whathappenedtomonday · · Score: 2

      After a year of monitoring

      Yay! It's safe! *phew*

      --
      I hope I didn't brain my damage.
    2. Re:Not possible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

      Comrades,

      The monitoring program for Chernobyl Nuclear Power Station has now lasted for one year. Our scientists have discovered that levels of radiation outside the power station are no different from background levels. Our brave comrades in Pripyat need not fear to live in the shadow of this glorious monument to communism.

      Certain imperialist American dissidents have dared to suggest that one year might not be enough time to determine if the power station is in fact safe. This is groundless; however, to eliminate these traitorous anti-worker suggestions, the monitoring program will continue for another year (making a total of two) before being concluded. That should put rest to any lingering fears. In addition, our patriotic operatives will continue their propaganda campaign to discredit these unruly dissidents.

      In the meantime, since Chernobyl has proved to be safe, we will continue with our five-year plan of constructing one such plant in every town with more than 50,000 residents.

      All glory to the Soviet Union!

    3. Re:Not possible by interkin3tic · · Score: 1

      It's a little obnoxious for you to be saying that given the amount of denial that is still going on with carbon emissions and evolution. I mean "We can't let science speak" is the motto for the republican party. This time the science backs up the pro-buisiness side, and you're acting as if the greens are trying to censor it? For god's sake, it's on slashdot: it must have been in the news three weeks ago!

    4. Re:Not possible by onyxruby · · Score: 1

      Your missing the point, greenpeace has absolutely nothing to do with the green movement. Replacement of coal with natural gas powered plants has done far more the green movement than greenpeace has in it's entire history. I could go on and on, but read up on the history of greenpeace, an organization so bad that even their founder has has turned on the.

      I'm an old school environmentalist, from years before it was 'politically correct' to be one. Greenpeace has done more to harm the green movement than Koch brothers and chamber of commerce combined.

    5. Re:Not possible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This car hasn't been in an accident in the last year, so it's 100% safe forever, no matter where I drive it.

    6. Re:Not possible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The financial powers that be have the environmental movement on lockdown. Any and all organizations with political clout wether right or left have long been the tools of the money power.

      Notice the solutions are always designed to raise prices either through taxation or the marketplace, they couldn't just make bad environmental practices felonies and revoke the corporate umbrella privileges in the cases of felonies.

    7. Re:Not possible by jabuzz · · Score: 1

      Just to make it clear coal fired power station max 40% efficient and takes hours to start stop so problem with what to do overnight. Gas fired power station (aka a combined cycle one) is max 60% efficient, and can go from zero to full power in minutes.

      Consequently closing all the coal power stations and switching to combined cycle gas ones will lead to a dramatic reduction in CO2 emissions. One would have thought that an environmental group would be in favour of such a move. However as they have a myopic zero CO2 mentality they are against these sorts of plants as well, even though they produce less CO2 than conventional coal plants.

  7. In this case. by intermodal · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Sure, it didn't get into the groundwater this time. My concern is whether proper studies are being done to ensure that other sites do not see different results from the supposedly clean ones here.

    --
    In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
  8. What about long term? by csubi · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Nothing made its way up in a year, hardly surprising.

    I'm sure people will be happy when they see these chemical showing up in the water a couple hundred years from now, then discovering records about fracking in archives. They will probably say things like : they could not have been this stupid?!

    Again, the problem here is timescale. One should not think in decades but in centuries.

    1. Re:What about long term? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      And how do YOU know that it would ever change?

      YOU CAN'T.

      Please quit making suppositions solely on feelings.

    2. Re:What about long term? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One should also consider that every fracking sight needs this kind of testing - as the depth at where the resources they are trying to get is different and in some instances will be higher than that water table.

    3. Re:What about long term? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Its almost as bad as storing a dangerous explosive gas below ground. Not just a few cubic meters mind you, but millions! I think we should do our best to take these volatile organic compounds from their unregulated and unauthorized locations -- and for the children -- dispose of them in such a way that they will not combust and threaten the lives of our precious innocents!

    4. Re:What about long term? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's also a mistake to think that the chemicals will move linearly over time. It's possible that material injected deep into the rock will remain nearly stationary for a long time, then suddenly be "squirted" many meters upwards when a small earthquake causes the rock to shift.

    5. Re:What about long term? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And I take it you are the sort of person who believes that we need to observe how climate change models fits its future predictions over at least a decade before making policy decisions? I'm guessing not, and you will always side against industrialism

    6. Re:What about long term? by steelfood · · Score: 1

      They're not even thinking in decades here. They're thinking in single-digit years.

      Come back and retest after 10 years of fracking, or test sites that have been fracking for 10+ years. Then they'll be thinking in decades.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    7. Re:What about long term? by Nemyst · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You're asking for long-term thinking from corporations? Ha! They can't think long-term even when it'd benefit them, imagine when they don't give a shit about it.

    8. Re:What about long term? by Freddybear · · Score: 0

      What are the long-term costs of not exploiting domestic energy supplies? More funding for our dear friends the Saudis? Escalating death-spiral of energy prices while renewables turn out to be expensive boondoggles? Our Dear Leader did promise that energy prices would necessarily skyrocket, and that's one promise he seems determined to fulfill.

    9. Re:What about long term? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      " I think we should do our best to take these volatile organic compounds from their unregulated and unauthorized locations"

      Nature had it safely locked away until arrogant and snoopy(ok, greedy) humans decided to break into the vault.

      celle

    10. Re:What about long term? by csubi · · Score: 1

      1) Preserving domestic energy supplies could be a huge future asset when the rest of the world has none.

      2) You could make a drastic reduction in the dependence on foreign petrol/energy by making Better use of it. Let's just mention vehicle fuel efficiency, average one-way commute of 16 miles and setting AC at 70F during summer.

      3) Renewable as expensive boondoggles? Germany can make it work, how come it is not possible here in the US?

    11. Re:What about long term? by Freddybear · · Score: 1

      Huge future assets aren't worth much if you're going broke now.

      Conservation is important but there really aren't those kinds of big savings to be had. People don't want to drive golf carts to work and they don't want to live in the city. And I can't blame them. And 70F? Try 77 and it's still expensive.

      And yes, boondoggles. Even in Germany. Read the "Government Policy" section of that wiki article. They are paying huge subsidies for renewable energy.

    12. Re:What about long term? by csubi · · Score: 1

      Conservation : I'm not speaking about conservation, I speak about not being wasteful - I agree that not living in the city, driving oversize cars, buying 2000+ sqft single family homes is the American way but hey, maybe it's time for a change?

      Government subsidized : and so what? Germany is still doing fine and you should factor in the humungous amount of money they pour into the Eurozone. It is their choice. Just as the average american house is oversized, poorly isolated, costs too much to cool/heat and far from civilization. Now step up and pay the bills.

  9. No need to use that kind of language! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Keep that kind of talk in the bunk, Starbuck!

  10. Yeah, no by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, no...

  11. What the Frak by OneFangCat · · Score: 1

    Great! Now do it at hundreds of other sites and do it for the next 7 years with yearly reports!

  12. Says it all! by Tempest451 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "While the lack of contamination is encouraging, Jackson said he wondered whether the unidentified drilling company might have consciously or unconsciously taken extra care with the research site, since it was being watched. " Ya think?

    1. Re:Says it all! by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      The researchers seem pretty open about the results. It's one site, and clearly one site does not a full study represent. Obviously the industry is going to trumpet this as the be-all and end-all, just as they did with some preliminary research, now largely debunked, that fracking didn't lead to or at least exacerbate earthquakes. That's the part I'm still dubious about. It's rather like feeding a five hundred pound guy a near-fatal dose (if he was 200 pounds) of arsenic and then, when he doesn't drop dead after a few days, declaring "Arsenic is safe!"

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  13. From a comment on the story - so this is bogus by PoconoPCDoctor · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This segment of oil and gas propaganda was brought to you by the good ol' folks of the Marcellus Shale Coalition and its friends at ANGA. What a joke! I'm sure the American Natural Gas Association (ANGA) will advertise even more on your station now as a thank you for this puff piece you proffered as news. I live in SW PA. I sadly know many, many families whose lives have been destroyed by the onslaught of drilling and fracking. For them, this might be the most insulting study I have seen to date. Why not point out, CBS, that the state of PA never even had 1 cumulative impact study on human health or the environment before they allowed the takeover of our state and government by big oil and gas. No consideration whatsoever for what this would do to our health, our air, our water. We are here to be the guinea pigs and no one really seems to care thanks to a lack of media integrity and coverage about the reality of living in the gasfields. CBS should be embarrassed to even play along with this type of bought and paid for "journalism". Congratulations Duke! You found a company here that can drill and maintain a gas pad exactly as it should be without a single complication and did a study (like the 7 or 8% failure rate on the cement well casings. This is one of the major reasons we have had so much water contamination and methane migration in this state. Check the DEP numbers here in PA. That is failure of cement casing on just the completion of wells, not the overall failure rate, over time, that is much, much higher). It is terrifying to think about all of the damage that the fractures (1800 ft) themselves can or will do in addition to the failed casings. You seem there are hundreds of thousands of abandoned oil and gas wells, and coal mines in all corners of this state that are further complicating this type of migration and contamination. Why not investigate that? Looking at one well and saying "Hey, this is how it is supposed to work when it does. See, it can happen." is not any kind of science or research that helps those of us screaming "WHAT DO WE DO WHEN YOUR DRILL SITES FAIL; WHEN YOUR FRACK PITS LEAK TOXIC WASTE; WHEN YOUR TRUCKS SPILL AND YOUR WORKERS ILLEGALLY DUMP ON OUR ROADS AND IN OUR WATERWAYS? WHAT DO WE DO WHEN WE CAN'T BREATHE THE AIR OUTSIDE OF OUR HOMES AND ALL OF OUR POLITICIANS and REGULATORY AGENCIES ARE BEHOLDEN TO INDUSTRY AND NOT THE PEOPLE THEY WORK FOR?" Now there's a story we here in Gasland would love to see. I will take any honest journalist on a tour of what fracking really looks like when things go wrong, as they often do, from the view of the harmed, the sickened, the destroyed forests and farmland. I will show you the massive frackpits that sit behind people's houses and poison their air. I will show you what black, putrid water looks like where it used to run clean and water animals. I will let you smell the smell of flaring and burning of god knows what from giant cyrogenic plants next to the home of toddlers and daycare centers. I will show you where toxic waste is buried on farmland and where water catches fire and well after well is destroyed, thanks to all of the disruption of the earth below it. I could show you all of this and yet the sad truth is that you wouldn't even investigate or report on it, just like the media round these parts. You have an organization to run and that takes lots of advertising dollars, not honest reporting. Just keep spewing the BS about jobs, safety, doing it right, American independence from foreign oil, and every other lie and industry talking point that you tell to justify the plight of my neighbors and the destruction of our land and the profit of your news organization. I'll be here shaking my head at your fault, but fighting back. I'll watch as our resources are shipped to China and India, while more and more foreign companies drill and have more rights in our backyards than the citizens of this state. I'll watch with great sadness, your participation in the destruction of my democracy. And I will continue to speak truth to power. My eyes were opened a long time ago. I understand how the world works. I know what part in the coverup media outlets like you play. I only hope that many of your viewers wake up and take your news for what it is, good old American journaltizing at its best.

    --
    "Let us raise a standard to which the wise and honest can repair" - George Washington
    1. Re:From a comment on the story - so this is bogus by bryan1945 · · Score: 1

      You feel better now?

      --
      Vote monkeys into Congress. They are cheaper and more trustworthy.
    2. Re:From a comment on the story - so this is bogus by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Funny

      They're obviously right, they use paragraphs.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    3. Re:From a comment on the story - so this is bogus by honestmonkey · · Score: 1

      He probably does not feel better. Being able to light your water on fire might make anyone a little queasy. Also, he probably doesn't live near the site they did the study on, so who knows what else is in the water.

      --
      Everything you know is wrong, Just forget the words and sing along.
    4. Re: From a comment on the story - so this is bogus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is no evidence because the industry are the ones doing the research. You can spin statistics any way you want through presentation alone. Just ask anyone in marketing.

    5. Re:From a comment on the story - so this is bogus by virtig01 · · Score: 1

      Well this comment looks shockingly familiar

    6. Re: From a comment on the story - so this is bogus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's nothing quite like a good ol' appeal to emotion.

    7. Re:From a comment on the story - so this is bogus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... which PoconoPCDoctor specifically stated in the title of his post: "From a comment on the story."

    8. Re: From a comment on the story - so this is bogus by PoconoPCDoctor · · Score: 1

      Yup,clearly labeled from a comment. I live in PA, where the Democratic Party just passed a resolution against fracking, thanks to my sister, a co-chair from Monroe County. Nice going sis!

      --
      "Let us raise a standard to which the wise and honest can repair" - George Washington
    9. Re:From a comment on the story - so this is bogus by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      If you formatted all the stuff you copied and pasted there, it would probably be more readable.

    10. Re: From a comment on the story - so this is bogus by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      There is no evidence because the industry are the ones doing the research.

      That doesn't excuse lying, or generally absolve you from being rational.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    11. Re:From a comment on the story - so this is bogus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "WHAT DO WE DO WHEN YOUR DRILL SITES FAIL; WHEN YOUR FRACK PITS LEAK TOXIC WASTE; WHEN YOUR TRUCKS SPILL AND YOUR WORKERS ILLEGALLY DUMP ON OUR ROADS AND IN OUR WATERWAYS? WHAT DO WE DO WHEN WE CAN'T BREATHE THE AIR OUTSIDE OF OUR HOMES AND ALL OF OUR POLITICIANS and REGULATORY AGENCIES ARE BEHOLDEN TO INDUSTRY AND NOT THE PEOPLE THEY WORK FOR?"

      You know, it occurs to me that you could ask exactly the same thing about the huge tanker trucks worth of toxic chemicals rolling down your local roads that are off to deliver refined gasoline to your local gas station. They could tip over and spill, blow up, etc. Once safely delivered, if storage of the product is not carefully maintained it could leak gasoline straight into the near-surface groundwater. Even if it is properly maintained and strictly regulated by government that is responsive to the public, accidents will still happen. Yet I don't see people raging about that or calling for banning of all gas stations and cars running on gasoline, even though the risk of groundwater contamination from that activity is far more significant.

      What I see is a lot of people freaking out about very tiny risks for insanely diluted materials that are far below the position from which their groundwater is actually or would ever be drawn, yet people don't think twice about what they put in their own cars every week or two right on the surface where it can easily spill. One of these is a near and present danger of toxic contamination of groundwater. The other is quite remote. And that doesn't even consider other near and present risks like improperly maintained septic systems, agricultural runoff, landfill or uncontrolled garbage sites, etc. It's like the people who freak about about traveling on a plane, but they happily drive their car even though the risks are many times higher of death or injury in a car. It's convenience that makes them ignore the more obvious risks while raging about fracking. If they're not getting a benefit from it, no risk is too small to complain about. What's going on here is an interesting study in the psychology of the perception of risk, not the actual risk, primarily because people are frightened of things they don't understand and they have vested interests in the more serious risks that they are willing to ignore (or they don't realize those risks are there).

      Hey, don't get me wrong, groundwater is a crucial resource that should be carefully protected. But the focus on hydraulic fracturing is so far off the mark it is ridiculous. Regulate it strictly, monitor it, make companies liable for problems that might develop down the line (post a bond), etc. It's managable. And unless you want to pay twice the price for fuel in half the time, or cut back your fuel use by half, there aren't a whole lot of other options for stretching out the fuel supplies while we work on alternatives.

    12. Re: From a comment on the story - so this is bogus by PoconoPCDoctor · · Score: 1, Funny

      I, for one, welcome our paragraph overlords!

      --
      "Let us raise a standard to which the wise and honest can repair" - George Washington
    13. Re: From a comment on the story - so this is bogus by Damarkus13 · · Score: 1

      You're assuming that gasoline and fracking compounds are equally toxic, and penetrate the soil equally. Since they won't disclose the formulas, we have no way of knowing that. Also gasoline would be spilt on the surface, not leaked out at water table levels (in cases when wells fail). Making it much easier to clean up. And copy-and-paste or not, the OP has a point when they ask what happens (and how do we know) when a well fails. Is it really too much to ask that they put a marker in all of their fluid?

    14. Re: From a comment on the story - so this is bogus by epiccollision · · Score: 1

      This is still not an issue any reasonable person is worried about...fracking fluids are bad, yes, and are being disposed of improperly, yes...but the issue is the leaking of hydrocarbons and methane as a result of fracking getting into the water table from badly cased well bores. That are failing at 5% immediately and 5% more per year....the problem is they can't fail AT ALL...EVER....or the products released during fraking(not the fraking fluids) will migrate up and contaminate the surround substrates and eventually make it into the atmosphere, where methane is a greenhouse gas 105 times more potent then carbon dioxide and it outside of the planet's regular carbon cycle...so once there, controlling its effect is going to be difficult

  14. Fire water? by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    But what about the videos of people lighting their tap water. Are there explanations that don't directly implicate fracking? I asking seriously. I haven't read up on those films and I'm sure someone has a perfectly reasonable sounding story for how that could be.

    And suppose the fracking chemicals themselves don't migrate. What about the petrochemicals they've broken loose (which is the whole reason for fracking in the first place, as I understand it)? Can those work their way up into the water supply?

    --
    Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    1. Re:Fire water? by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 3, Funny

      And suppose the fracking chemicals themselves don't migrate.

      . . . they could be carried by a swallow . . .

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    2. Re:Fire water? by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 3, Interesting

      But what about the videos of people lighting their tap water. Are there explanations that don't directly implicate fracking? I asking seriously. I haven't read up on those films and I'm sure someone has a perfectly reasonable sounding story for how that could be.

      And suppose the fracking chemicals themselves don't migrate. What about the petrochemicals they've broken loose (which is the whole reason for fracking in the first place, as I understand it)? Can those work their way up into the water supply?

      As I understand it, when done properly, the petro and fracking chemicals either stay in the shale or end up back in the tankers.

      The problem is, according to some studies, it's only done properly 20% of the time or less, due to the high costs of doing it properly and the lack of effective oversight.

      In short, the chemicals usually migrate into the water supply due to dumping, accidents, and badly maintained equipment, not because they were properly injected into the shale/extracted and shipped to petrochemical companies.

    3. Re:Fire water? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Methane has been fairly common in groundwater long before fracking. Of course, the environmental activists don't want you to know that.

    4. Re:Fire water? by steelfood · · Score: 4, Informative

      I don't recally where I heard this, but my understanding is that the tap water was flammable even prior to the fracking. Natural gas was contaminating the groundwater long before people began mining it. The way I see it, it may be that more places have flammable tap water after fracking, but being able to light water on fire by itself is not indicative of contaminated drinking water. It's more just attention-whoring and if you abscribe malice to the media, then classic straw-man misdirection.

      Stronger correlators, such as the tails of cows falling off after fracking began (I don't recall which, but one of the known chemicals used in fracking caused tails to fall off in laboratory experiments), would be a better argument for groundwater contamination.

      The other thing to realize is that just because one area is not contaminated does not imply that fracking in general does not contaminate the ground water. It could be due to the specific geology of the area. Or it could be variations in the fracking process used in that particular area or for this particular test.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    5. Re:Fire water? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It was a valid way to find oil and coal in the early days of the industrial revolution to test the water for known contaminants. Methane, amongst other gases, have been polluting ground waters for millenia, without fracking needing to be involved. But sure, blame something that you don't understand and make yourself feel better.

    6. Re:Fire water? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      The explanation for every one of those tap water fires is the same: shitty well bore zone isolation. Whether or not fracking was used in the areas around those communities, it's not the fracking itself that leads to the fires. It's the shitty two-bit gas co that used shitty half-cut cement mix and thin-by-a-third casing strings, which one after another fail over time, letting gas from their production zone migrate up the well and out into places it should have never had the opportunity to go. Fracking chemicals aren't even the issue, because in any competent well those chemicals will never touch anything but gas-rich rock, and steel to surface.

        A standard production well should have a minimum of 3 separate sets of steel & cement between the production gas and nearest surface aquifer. That's been industry standard practice for more than 30 years. As an oil & gas guy, I can promise you, despite the vilification, that it's not BP or Halliburton who cut those corners. It's the fly-by-night & brother, son-of-the-mayor & developer piece of crap wildcat bastards who drill, fail, and run away from projects they should have never been permited to start. Love 'em or hate 'em, the big companies know that they'll still be around in 30 years to face the music for shit they screw up, so they work hard to minimize their future pain.

    7. Re:Fire water? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It didn't sound like he was blaming anyone at all. I'd been wondering the same thing.

    8. Re:Fire water? by PraiseBob · · Score: 1

      being able to light water on fire by itself is not indicative of contaminated drinking water.

      Not sure if you're aware of this, but water is not normally flammable. In fact, if it catches on fire thats a pretty damn good indicator that it is contaminated with petrochemicals.

    9. Re:Fire water? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People have been able to light their well water on fire long before fracking was even invented.

    10. Re:Fire water? by CptNerd · · Score: 1

      African or European?

      --
      By the taping of my glasses, something geeky this way passes
    11. Re:Fire water? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not sure if you're aware of this, but there are plenty of places in the world where methane is dissolved naturally into the groundwater. Here's a page relating to a methane survey in the UK, and here's one from Alberta, Canada. There are plenty of other gasses in groundwater such as CO2 and radon, but most of the other ones aren't flammable.

      If you want to make the case that methane in someone's tapwater was *caused* by artificial fracking, there's more to it than simply observing that the methane occurrence post-dates the fracking operations. You need to know what the "normal" level is, and sometimes that can be quite high, to the point that you have to properly vent your well or risk an explosion. Even drawing down the groundwater (e.g., by overpumping a water well) can increase the amount of natural methane flowing from the surrounding rocks. The water well owners could have triggered the problem themselves by improper well design and/or use. Anecdotes like "my water didn't used to have methane like this until the fracking started" are meaningless without looking at the details. It has to be studied carefully.

    12. Re:Fire water? by TapeCutter · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Of course, the environmental activists don't want you to know that.

      So name one, point to an environmentalist that is claiming the phenomena is always a result of fracking.

      As an environmentalist since the 70's I want people to know they are pumping an unknown substance into the ground because they claim it's more effective than using plain old water (ie: it's more profitable). I want people to know that the US congress refuses to force frackers to reveal the recipe for their fluid.

      Also as a pragmatic environmentalist I can see that burning gas (or uranium) is a lesser evil than burning coal but it seems to me (in the US at least) that greed and the regulatory blindness it creates will destroy the overall social benefit from these natural resources, just as it has in Nigeria and dozens of other resource rich hell holes around the globe.

      Disclaimer: As someone who has a BSc and a lifelong passion for science I'm well aware that dissolved methane in tap water is more often a natural phenomena than a man made one. I am not responsible for other people making outrageous claims under the banner of "environmentalism", nor will I defend them if the science does not stack up.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    13. Re:Fire water? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Miss the point much? The ground water was already contaminated with natural gas. It's a common problem in the state, one of the main reasons that drinking wells are regulated and require specific equipment to remove the dissolved methane. The well the water was taken from for Gasland was from an illegal well for this *very* reason.

    14. Re:Fire water? by IdolizingStewie · · Score: 1

      It is more effective in that it is the only way economically possible at any reasonable multiple of current gas prices. With pure water, you would pressure out your pumps long before you could fracture the formation. The friction pressure in the pipe would be 10x what it is with the chemicals. Even without the pressure you have to overcome at the bottom of the hole, I want you to imagine pumping 60 bpm (2520 gal/min) through a 3 mile long 4" ID pipe.

    15. Re:Fire water? by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      Thanks, truly! That seems pretty reasonable.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    16. Re:Fire water? by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      Don't be so defensive. I saw a clip of that video and it horrified me, but I don't know a lot about geology and thought this was a good place to ask. I truly wanted to know. I wasn't trying to blame anyone, and I didn't really have an opinion beyond "I don't think that's supposed to happen".

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    17. Re:Fire water? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Contaminated by the fracking process was what he meant, not contaminated in general.

    18. Re:Fire water? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, and you will be happy until gasoline prices hit $8 a gallon. Like when Saudia Arabia runs out of oil (they have not changed the reported level of their reserves in almost 2 decades) or when we end up in a war in the middle east. Until airplanes, trucks and rail can run on something besides oil, everyone is at serious economic risk without alternatives to oil. And the only real alternative is LNG.

      The clean-energy zealots never thing past the Prius in their garage. It's not about *you* or other people like *you* it's about the industries that bring you the bread, meat and tomatoes you want to eat every day. You can't MOVE that stuff without oil. Impossible today. So start thinking about real alternatives to it, not wet dreams that won't exist for 100 years.

      It's not about greed - it's about the low income family who needs cheap bread. It's about the millions of people who drive trucks. It's about the average middle class person who needs to get to work. It's about the guy you call to fix your sink when it's broken, the person who hauls the groceries to the store you take for granted, the construction worker who builds the building you work in. They way your garbage gets away from your home...

      Environmentalists only think about the physical environment, never about the real, terrible consequences of economic collapse that an economy without alternatives to oil would sustain. The damage to the environment and humans in that world would be much worse.

    19. Re:Fire water? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      biogenic methane has been found on water wells...and those wells are not used for drinking water because they can blow up your house if vented improperly....the thermogenic methane that result from fracking has a completely different signature and can be distinguished...Tom Ridge is not a good source on methane contamination issues....

    20. Re:Fire water? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      you don't need to be a fly by night drilling company to drill bad wells....the industry itself reports 5%(well 6-9% but lets give them that error of scale) of wells fail immediately and another 5% fail in the first 3-12 months....now say they drill 18000 wells in an area.....1800 failed in 12 months ...all with the ability to leach thermogenic Methane in to the above layers and into the air above....these wells have to last 10,000-50,000 years and 10% FAIL IN THE FIRST 12 MONTHS...i know math can be hard but this math makes fraking stupid at any level....leaked methane is 100 times more powerful as a green house gas as C02 and we are now dumping large quantities of it into the atmosphere from broken well casings, well burnoffs and leaky methane transit systems....And yes its BP and Haliburton, Encana, Cabot first tier oil and gas companies making bad wells...why don't you go take advantage of the dirt cheap real estate now downwind of these wells, you can get a great multi-million $ mansion in Dish Texas for next to nothing, well except you can't go outside and your kids will probably have multiple airway diseases from atmospheric Hydrocarbon and benzene exposure....As a reasonable & scientific person vs the "oil & gas guy" my agenda is not as obvious as yours, but mine is for the future...what are you apologizing for if you don't even know the industry self reported numbers?...didn't they tell you how poorly the run these operations??

    21. Re:Fire water? by epiccollision · · Score: 1

      you think the state would just let people have free unfettered access to wells that are venting huge amounts of biogenic gas on their property uncapped?? as you said "main reasons that drinking wells are regulated and require specific equipment to remove the dissolved methane"...but the truth is the presence of biogenic methane is not the big of a deal first because of the pressures involved...its gas produced by bacteria, if bacteria were that efficient at producing methane that a water well bore would be sputtering and able to caught on fire more then once a year....then we would have found a source of natural gas that we wouldn't need fraking for...why would we drill all these wells thousands of feet down and thousands of feet outward, when we could just drill thousands of bores 100s of feet in a field and have the bacteria self replenish the methane ....it'd be the perfect renewable resource....BUT...no such thing exists...the biogenic gas found in water well can be dangerous if let to build and pressurize over a long time, but water well are not built to be self pressurized in most cases and they are sealed to keep surface water from getting in... not to stop things from getting out....biogenic gases are not the issue, the contamination has been proven to be thermogenic, time and time again....if the gas companies had proof it was biogenic, why would they still be delivering water to the people affected...its simple, they wouldn't...they would tell them to go kick rocks get your own damn water.

  15. Wasting water by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    even if fracking itself is safe. The process contaminates millions of gallons of potable water that becomes hazardous waste. And it can never be reclaimed.

    1. Re:Wasting water by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      even if fracking itself is safe. The process contaminates millions of gallons of potable water that becomes hazardous waste. And it can never be reclaimed.

      I wonder if frackers have experimented with using existing waste water instead of creating new waste water? Tailing ponds, treatment plant runoff, etc. It seems to me that there's already a LOT of waste water in holding ponds that would do much better buried in the shale. That would have the added benefit of not sucking the aquifers dry as fast (of course, aerated watering practices and shipping produce out of the aquifer's sustainable area are much more of an issue here than the millions of gallons used for fracking).

    2. Re:Wasting water by IdolizingStewie · · Score: 1

      Yup, in many areas we do reuse our own wastewater. There are limits to it due to chemical compatibility with the waste already in the water and the salinity, but my Big Oil company uses a majority recycled water in about half our North America fields, and has evaluated it in all of them.

    3. Re:Wasting water by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      Oh, I wasn't talking reuse; I know that these days, that's generally checked out as one of the first options. I'm talking about using water that's already available and deemed not potable. There's bound to be a lot of it sitting around from mining, heavy industry, etc.

  16. Not the only issue by kilfarsnar · · Score: 2

    From my understanding, part of the problem with fracking is that the well casings don't always hold. So the chemicals and methane can leak out farther up the well where the drinking water is. The failure rate is supposedly pretty high, with 5% leaking immediately and 30% leaking over 10 years, or something like that. I don't know exact figures and it's hard to know who to trust these days anyway.

    Having just watched Gasland II, I don't necessarily trust the government's pronouncements either. According to that documentary (which is a bit propagandistic to be honest) the EPA did a study in Wyoming and found greatly elevated levels of chemicals in the drinking water. When the press release came out it gave the water a big thumbs up. Like I said, it's hard to know who to trust these days. Seems like everyone has an agenda.

    --
    "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    1. Re:Not the only issue by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      Like I said, it's hard to know who to trust these days. Seems like everyone has an agenda.

      Everyone's always had an agenda -- the consequences of those agendas are just more likely to affect you in an understandable way these days.

    2. Re:Not the only issue by phayes · · Score: 2

      My father has a farm in wellsville NY, inside the Marcellus shale region. The problem with methane saturated water wells long predates the use of fracking as the area is filled with played out oil wells from the initial oil boom in the late 1880's but hey, why be rational when complaining about fracking gets you in the news...

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
    3. Re:Not the only issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the EPA did a study in Wyoming and found greatly elevated levels of chemicals in the drinking water. When the press release came out it gave the water a big thumbs up.

      I believe they found elevated levels of methane. That's entirely safe to drink. You produce methane internally, which you can also light on fire if you feel like being dramatic. Safety issues from methane come from fires and asphyxiation, not from drinking.

    4. Re:Not the only issue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Assuming the studies are trustworthy and what you're being told is factual... Considering the track record of lying from government and industry, it's no surprise that people are skeptical of these results.

    5. Re:Not the only issue by MSG · · Score: 2

      Seems like everyone has an agenda.

      Well, yes, but I tend to side first with the people whose agenda is "Don't kill us."

    6. Re:Not the only issue by Magius_AR · · Score: 1

      Having just watched Gasland II, I don't necessarily trust the government's pronouncements either. According to that documentary (which is a bit propagandistic to be honest)

      Terrible, terrible source. That movie is loaded with so many inconsistencies and so many flat-out lies that I wouldn't know what is a fact, what is an exaggeration, and what is plainly made up. Did you know that, for instance, the hose in Gasland 2 that was on fire was attached directly to a gas vent rather than a water supply? http://energyindepth.org/national/the-continuing-fraud-of-gasland/

  17. At least we know fire water is safe by pablo_max · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It seems the US government has a very loose definition of "polluted".
    http://www.economist.com/blogs/babbage/2013/06/fracking

  18. Who??? by Ryanrule · · Score: 1

    Who did the study? Who funded them?

    If its from a red state, toss that shit out with the used diapers.

  19. Obvious conclusion. by alexhs · · Score: 5, Funny

    So, they didn't test water pollution, only checked that fracking didn't contaminate water by using markers.
    Hower, other studies showed a correlation between fracking and presence of water pollutants.

    Therefore, the only logical conclusion is: water pollution causes fracking !

    --
    I have discovered a truly marvelous proof of killer sig, which this margin is too narrow to contain.
    1. Re:Obvious conclusion. by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      So, they didn't test water pollution, only checked that fracking didn't contaminate water by using markers.
      Hower, other studies showed a correlation between fracking and presence of water pollutants.

      Therefore, the only logical conclusion is: water pollution causes fracking !

      on some level that's actually probably true, areas where they give fracking licenses easily might have sloppier overall environmental checks, regardless of what the fracking happens to do.

      some americans get really weird about drinking water though, like being afraid that some company is exporting the water from the big lakes to china as drinking water.. fuck if you can get someone to pay for drinking water from other side of the globe then do it!

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    2. Re:Obvious conclusion. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      fracking is safe

      sex is safe

      therefore,

      fracking is sex

      quod erat demonstrandum

  20. paid article. bunk! by helobugz · · Score: 2

    How much do you suppose CHK Energy forked over for that article to appear?

    Article doesn't address other much more serious incidents all over the NE in recent years...

  21. deep vs shallow by jklovanc · · Score: 1

    Some fracking wells are very deep and have an impermeable layer of rick between the gas shale and the water table. In this type of fracking if is almost impossible to contaminate the water table. These wells have no more impact that the average oil well.

    Some fracking wells ate shallow with no impermeable layer between the gas shale and the water table. In this case, when the gas starts moving it can contaminate the aquifer. That is where the burning water issue comes in.

    The problem comes in that most anti-fracking groups look at all wells as shallow wells and most industry groups look at all wells as deep wells. They are both wrong. Deep wells are safe while shallow wells should not be done.

    1. Re:deep vs shallow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      NO, NO NO NO NO and one more NO.

      The methane is naturally occurring.

    2. Re:deep vs shallow by epiccollision · · Score: 1

      of course the methane is naturally occurring...i don't think anyone was disputing all the methane is naturally there....but there is a huge difference between biogenic and thermogenic methane ....in nature one you find in aquifers(biogenic) and one you don't(thermogenic) guess what they found the well water they could light on fire was thermogenic methane....sooo....No to you... bad logic and ignorant nonsense is not a good argument

  22. What about disposal? by generic_screenname · · Score: 1

    The initial round of drilling is only half the problem. Disposal after fracking isn't mentioned, but should also be studied. Fracking fluid disposal is prone to problems like spills at the surface level, which will contaminate an aquifer. Fracking fluid disposal has also been shown to cause earthquakes. http://www.cleveland.com/business/index.ssf/2012/03/shale_gas_drilling_caused_smal.html

  23. Only one year of monitoring? by hawguy · · Score: 1

    It can take years, decades, or even centuries for water to filter down into a deep aquifer, yet they've decided that after one year that there's no contamination from deep wells?

    Sounds more like a study performed by the Fracking industry than real scientists.

    1. Re:Only one year of monitoring? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Take a class in earth sciences and understand how aquifers and contaminants work. than come back and revise this post so that you don't sound like an idiot.

    2. Re:Only one year of monitoring? by hawguy · · Score: 1

      Take a class in earth sciences and understand how aquifers and contaminants work. than come back and revise this post so that you don't sound like an idiot.

      Why would I take a class in earth sciences when I already took a class in Philosophy and I learned how to spot an Ad Hominen attack?

      Feel free to point out the flaws in my argument, but don't deflect away from the issue by saying "Unless you're a recognized scientist in the field, nothing you say has any validity. Oh, and you're an idiot."

      But before you do that, you might want to have a look at this site: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/misspelling

  24. um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So I obviously am not going to RTFA, but am I right that this has nothing to do with battlestar galactica?

  25. Gasland II by mspohr · · Score: 3, Informative

    Watch Gasland II.
    All wells will eventually leak into surface water. About 5% failure rate per year. (The cement around the pipe develops cracks.)
    They studied one well which didn't leak in the first year.
    Gasland II shows what happens when they do eventually leak.

    --
    I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    1. Re:Gasland II by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Gasland 1 was a complete lie, why not repeat it since no one listened before?

    2. Re:Gasland II by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you looked into the credibility of the creator of Gasland and the facts that are presented? I'd recommend you take a look a documentary that was produced in response to it called FrackNation (a Kickstarter funded project). I wouldn't say that everything in the movie is excellent (there are some interesting conspiracy theories as to what's propelling the media portrayal of fracking), but I found it to be incredibly informative. From what I've seen, most people railing against fracking (and oil/gas drilling in general) are incredibly uneducated about the process.

    3. Re:Gasland II by jigamo · · Score: 1

      I didn't realize I was logged out and wasn't intending to post it anonymously. Sorry for the repost:

      Have you looked into the credibility of the creator of Gasland and the facts that are presented? I'd recommend you take a look a documentary that was produced in response to it called FrackNation (a Kickstarter funded project). I wouldn't say that everything in the movie is excellent (there are some interesting conspiracy theories as to what's propelling the media portrayal of fracking), but I found it to be incredibly informative. From what I've seen, most people railing against fracking (and oil/gas drilling in general) are incredibly uneducated about the process.

      --
      Save money on your cell phone bill: Republic Wireless
  26. Sounds reasonable by Squeezer · · Score: 1

    I know I'll get modded way down for this, but it sounds reasonable to me. How can fracking at depths of 10,000+ feet contaminate ground/drinking water that is less than 200 feet deep?

    --
    Does the name Pavlov ring a bell?
    1. Re:Sounds reasonable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know I'll get modded way down for this [...]

      I doubt it... you started your post with Slashdot's down-mod-repelling incantation.

    2. Re:Sounds reasonable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      THEY DRILL AN UNSEALED HOLE INTO THE GROUND LINKING ALL THE LAYERS TOGETHER allowing free movement of whats below upward...try using a faucet with all the washers taken out...and thats only 20-90 PSI underground pressure start in the 1000s PSI....that's why the use a cement casing(and why deep horizon blew up...it failed) to seal the boreand everything just goes up the metal pipe inside...except the casings for fraking fail at alarming rates...and these casing have to last basically forever...but are failing at about 5% per year

  27. deftly sidestepping the real problem by kawabago · · Score: 1

    The real problem is natural gas that rises into the water table and contaminates wells. Not a mention of that though.

  28. Burning Water by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We've all seen the videos where you can light water on fire, so not buying it until they admit to the problems and found a way to fix them.

    1. Re:Burning Water by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You know those demonstrations were faked, right? They were pumping ethyl alcohol into the water line to dramatize the anecdotes, but there has not been a single, _substantiated_ incidence of actual "burning" water.

    2. Re:Burning Water by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're either stupid or you're a liar. Probably both.

  29. No, yeah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No, yeah...

  30. Behold, that's what a phoney denial looks like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sure, there's nothing in the water, even though video after video shows how easy it is to set the gas in the water on fire,
    and person after person shows their sores and health problems on YouTube caused by fracking fluids.

    Fracking fluids are TOXIC waste.

    The US federal government has been hijacked by EVIL corporations.

  31. Just beause You Read doesn't mean you Understand! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Although you claim to have read the f article, you seem to have gotten the facts wrong about what it said. Nowhere in the article does it indaicate that "they are using seismographic technologies to watch the spread of liquids in the fracking boreholes". While they are monitoring the fracking with seismic techniques, I beleive they are directly measuring the extent of the fractures via the seismic data. This does not correlate to how far the fluid has or has not spread. They are trying to measure the fluid migration directly by looking for traces of the the multple marker chemicals that they added to the fluid both in the water supply and in earlier shallower fracking wells.

    Just because chemical markers in the fracking fluid don't migrate back up 5000 feet into the water supply doesn't man that the much more mobile methane gas released by the process can't migrate that far. This is why you see videos of people lighing tap water on fire. So, just because they didn't find these marker chemicals in the drinking water doesn't mean fracking is safe.

  32. Not enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1. They tested one single site.

    2. There's still evidence of gas getting into the water and ruining it, regardless of any chemicals.

    3. There's still the man-made earthquake issue.

    This finding is definitely not an all-clear on fracking being safe.

    And how do they know what chemicals to test for when none of the 250+ chemicals have been disclosed to the public?

    1. Re: Not enough by PoconoPCDoctor · · Score: 0, Troll

      And how do I know you're anything but a shill for the fabulous frackers, AC man or woman or just plain shill? You do know that tests for water generally show a laundry list of carcinogens which are never found in those amounts in non-fracking areas, right? Shill away, AC.

      --
      "Let us raise a standard to which the wise and honest can repair" - George Washington
  33. Deep water wells by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are parts of this country that actually have water wells 3000+ feet deep. How deep do they go with fracking?

  34. "the rules" which never seem to be applied by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1) no person should be a judge in their own cause;
    2) reasonable opportunity must be given to each party to present their side.

    A weak but somewhat applicable metaphor from the movie version of 1776 in the character of Benjamin Franklin: 'surely you must understand that the term "our rebellion" is always legitimate, where the term "your rebellion" is always treasonous'.

    "Proofs" based on selectively gathered "evidence" is also ALWAYS dispositive when it is "my proof" but NEVER sufficient when it is "your proof"; it is my memory that line was used some twenty years ago in some hearing being covered live by CSPAN, and the person making the statement essentially told the congress-critter to "piss off, we will waste no more of our time outside of a court of final disposition where you and your sycophants have no say in the decision".

  35. peaceful protest stopped our local fracking by bigtreeman · · Score: 1

    No background testing has been done to ascertain what chemicals naturally occur. No permanent testing has been mandated. Independent testing is the only believable testing, who pay-rolled the testing who is involved in the testing, there is a revolving door between industry and government so many are tainted. If in doubt, don't do it. The protests worked in northern NSW, home of the tree-hugging hippy.

    --
    Go well
  36. The right idea but by Livius · · Score: 1

    ....groundwater moves 1) very slowly, and 2) horizontally as well as vertically.

  37. not the chemicals themselves, but.. by ACluk90 · · Score: 1

    I honestly believe them. However, what they investigated is not relevant. All they claim is that it is not the stuff they pump in that comes back out and contaminates the water. The study does NOT claim that the pollution is not an effect of the whole process, which it very possibly is.

  38. Wow--I'm really glad to read this! by karlandtanya · · Score: 1

    Our household in Ohio depends on a private well for all our water, and it would surely be miserable if it got contaminated.

    Just today, our dogs were freaking out because of the fracking machinery running on the neighbor's property.
    Poor Blanche just shivers and pants. It's better with her Thundershirt, though she's still fearful.
    And my wife told me she felt another earthquake this afternoon. She's from CA, so she knows earthquakes.

    I guess we can live with all that, but you gotta have clean water! It's just such a relief to know that our well is safe.

    --
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick
  39. People pushing those videos are counting on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the ignorance of their audiences... primarily people who've lived their entire lives in big cities who think that bread and meat come from stores, electricity comes from wall outlets and water comes from pipes (i.e. people who have no clue about the real world and where things actually come from)

    Methane is a naturally-occuring gas which appears in pockets deep beneath the earth; it has often been encountered all around the nation in the wells people drill for water (we drill for oil, we drill for water, we drill for gas, etc... there's lots of useful stuff deep beneath the surface of the Earth) and there are plenty of accounts of people drilling for drinking water and getting gas instead, or mixed with the water, a century ago (LONG before the current "fracking" faux controversy). There are even places in the US where the methane finds its way to the surface naturally and you can light it with a match (often in swamps).

    Here's a little evidence Minnesota Govt Website which I site here because it's a left-leaning state government (so nobody can say I'm a right-wing nazi pawn of the frakking industry... I'm not, but lefties love to shoot the messenger when the facts are not on their side).

    The current anti-frakking propaganda is just the latest panicky reaction by the anti-fossil fuels crowd to the appalling news that America has plenty of cheap energy from sources that are far superior to windmills and solar panels; they thought they had succeeded in pushing Americans into expensive and inefficient sources of energy by using bad government policies to drive-up the costs of the cheap fossil fuels the US had the most of... and then along came frakking to ruin all their dreams...

    I, for one, refuse to move back into a cave (or a teepee), refuse to bathe in a cold stream instead of a warm shower, refuse to graze on prairie grass (or arugula, or sprouts, or bean curd) and I refuse to drop dead at the first sign of disease (out of opposition to antibiotics, or the preservatives in them). I am a modern civilized man who believes in using the technology that I and my predecessors created. I support burning oil, gas and coal, using nuclear fission, researching nuclear fusion, building and using fast ships, fast planes, big rockets, giant dams and skyscrapers, vast networks of roads, railways, river locks and canals, etc. I am tired of faux geeks and faux techies who are actually scared of any technology that is not part of the ethereal world of the internet. I have opposable thumbs and I know how to use them!

  40. A contrast in attitudes by stevez67 · · Score: 0

    Those who want to believe fracking causes all the misery in the world will continue to believe so. Those who choose to believe that fracking is totally harmless will also continue to believe so. The reality is no one is ever happy and as long as there are wack-jobs on both sides of the issue Faux News and the Commie News Network will continue to fan the flames of outrage with half-truths, innuendo, skewed opinion pieces along with videos of either the Garden of Eden or horribly disfigured puppies and kittens. Isn't capitalism and a free (to those who can afford to own media companies) press great?

  41. I'll get to that after I finish... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the other brilliant similarly unbiased works in the same documentary category: "Triumph of the Will", "Battleship Potemkin", "Farenheit 911" and the DVR of last night's MSNCB fare

    Josh Fox clearly saw Michael Moore (a true 1%'er) get rich and fat off of his loser libtard audiences and is trying the same stuff... he's even got some of the style mastered. These films work the same way all such propaganda works... by presenting a fallacious argument without any skeptical counter-argument. Manipulate a scene or bit of information, show it in the worst light possible and leave out lots of inconvenient details, and leave the audience with the impression that [a] everything presented was hard fact (usually it's not) [b] there is no legitimate counter-argument (usually there is) and [c] anybody who says different is tainted/corrupt/evil and should, therefore be ignored (i.e. "that guy's arguments would destroy mine, so he's EVIL! Ignore him! )

    1. Re:I'll get to that after I finish... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Listing a bunch of totally unassociated documentary films to shout down this one is.., well, I'm sure there's a Greek philosophical term for exactly what kind of fool you are.

      Look. It's this simple: You don't want to think bad things can happen in the energy industry because it makes you feel bad.

  42. Are you just as skeptical about AGW studies? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    if not, why not?

    Amazing how skepticism on scientific studies is modded up when fracking is mentioned, but modded down when it's AGW.

    1. Re:Are you just as skeptical about AGW studies? by damn_registrars · · Score: 1
      I don't expect the AC to come back to reply to my reply but I'll play along anyways...

      if not, why not?

      Find me such a study. And since you specifically included the A, you must provide a study that demonstrates anthropogenic global warming, not just one that shows that the climate is changing.

      Amazing how skepticism on scientific studies is modded up when fracking is mentioned

      If you were paying attention you would have seen that my comment was hit with "troll" as well.

      but modded down when it's AGW.

      Can you show a discussion that was held here on slashdot that was about a peer-reviewed published paper on AGW - emphasis on the A? I will bet you $5 that you cannot. You will find plenty of articles here on AGW but most of them will be about articles from the NY Times and other such non-research sources. On top of that, you'll find that in general the top-rated comments in those discussions here will be the ones declaring AGW to be a hoax.

      --
      Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
  43. Where's this skepticism when it's AGW? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Man hurts environment" - skepticism is labelled "denier".

    "Man doesn't hurt environment" - skepticism is lauded.

  44. Propaganda...propaganda, propaganda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Propaganda, propa-ga-han-da!

    1. Re:Propaganda...propaganda, propaganda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is so obviously a propaganda study. Obama makes fracking and natural gas a centerpiece of his climate speech. What he doesn't mention is how much methane fracking releases into the air, which is one of the worst greenhouse gases out there. This study, of course, doesn't mention methane or other non-fracking chemicals. Nor does it mention that a majority of wells do not use proper containment procedures.
      This is a feel good study for the American public to get that warm cozy feeling about natural gas and remove any qualms of guilt about pumping chemicals deep into the ground and digging up our countryside. Keep burning fuel America!

  45. Statement from NETL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1
  46. it's a fake test by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If they only ran the test with one well and special markers I'm not surprised they didn't find any contamination.

    I've heard figures as high as 7% failure resulting in contamination. Combine this with the number they drill into each area your statistically guaranteed to see contamination.

    Solution: use special marking chemicals in one carefully drilled well only and look for that..

    Anyone else think the test was designed to get the given results?

  47. We need contingency plans for inevitable failures. by InterGuru · · Score: 1

    If done properly and carefully, fracking does not produce environmental damage.

    If done properly and carefully, deep sea oil drilling does not produce environmental damage.

    If done properly and carefully, nuclear power does not produce environmental damage.

    However, we know from the last two examples, things are not always done properly and carefully.

    If we allow fracking, we have to assume that failures will occur, and have public plans, with pre-arranged financing, on how we will handle the inevitable failures

  48. Sweet Sweet Cherries by Crypto+Gnome · · Score: 1

    The term "cherry picking" relates to selecting a small sample of data which proves your point.

    All this study has proved is that AT THIS SITE fracking HAS NOT YET produced contamination of the water-table.

    The problem is that The Industry will now point to this SAMPLE OF ONE as proof that "fracking is non-polluting" and therefore needs to be LEGISLATED as "not requiring environmental evaluation, not requiring pollution checks, and generally ignoring concerned scientists/enrivonmentalists/local people dying from(or concerned about dying from) industrial pollution.

    --
    Visit CryptoGnome in his home.
  49. Wow, a whole year! by Junior+J.+Junior+III · · Score: 1

    This makes me really feel safe. I'm all set to live in Western PA for EVER!

    --
    You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
  50. Possible explanation by manu0601 · · Score: 1

    I suspect this is like many human activities: it can be done right, which explains we can find occurrence where water is not contaminated. But as usual if operators are just looking for profit, it will is badly done, and we get water pollution.

    Anyway in both cases, it will produce greenhouse gases, therefore I would be pleased if we could focus on other cleaner ways to get energy

  51. Yeah right by slick7 · · Score: 1

    And The Obamanation is a U.S. born citizen, 9/11 was perpetrated by arabs, the check's in the mail and nobody is spying on Americans because I said so. Really? If you believe Snowden is a traitor, then who among the voting populace voted for the NDAA? We have met the enemy and they are stealing our constitution, our homes, our jobs, our future as we know it. They are burdening us with immeasurable debt that has no end. Where's all the gold that is supposed to be in Ft. Knox? Why are our youth dieing in foreign lands? Who is really profiting from the way too high fuel prices? Why is hemp illegal when it is superior to other fibers? Go ahead, mark me as "troll", it is easier to do that then miss your sports, your booze, your TV show, oh wait...SQUIRREL!!!

    --
    The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
  52. The FED says that? by MobSwatter · · Score: 0

    I always trust the FED, particularly after closed door house of representatives discussion of these issues. I don't suppose that the chemicals moved up to the water table where the injection well didn't fail, why would it? Still, there are far too many instances where homeowners were required to leave to preserve their own health.

  53. What happens when we have to drill deeper? by saleenS281 · · Score: 1

    So what happens when the shallow water supplies run out and we need to use the ones that are thousands of feet below the ground? Sure, it's currently economically unviable to drill that deep... but it was also economically unviable to frack just 10 years ago.

    I just can't fathom the stupidity of knowingly polluting a source of fresh water that our grandchildren will almost assuredly need to rely on some day.

  54. So fracking didn't pollute the water? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Then why does it burn coming out of the well? Why are the chickens loosing their feathers? Why is the livestock dying?
    Everything was hunky-dory before they started fracking. And what about these goldarned earthquakes?

  55. Towns now piping in drinking water. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How can fracking at depths of 10,000+ feet contaminate ground/drinking water that is less than 200 feet deep?

    With explosives and the magic of unpredictable geologic features?

    We've been given these benign little cutaway illustrations which seem nice and sensible to all the well behaved geeks who believe their teachers. And yet, somehow, drinking water is still getting contaminated. Hmm. Maybe things aren't so neat and tidy as the pretty color pamphlets tell us.

    Combine that with improperly implemented/maintained wells and stupid people in charge of overseeing every level of the process.

    Put it this way: Think of the last time you worked for an idiot. Now think of that person in charge of your drinking water. The other option is to leave it the hell alone and let nature regulate your water wells. It's going to do it better than the energy company.

    Why risk things when they *will* without question have irreparable consequences?

    There are towns which now pipe in drinking water from distant sources and had to sue gas companies to cover the cost of installing these systems after their local water ecology was destroyed. That's not made up. That's where we are right now.

    Gasland II is now available for viewing on youtube.

  56. What about the fire? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So the drinking water being lit on fire. That's got nothing to do with fracking.

    I wonder who paid for this study?

  57. good logic. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I watched my dog for 1 hour in the back yard, and he didn't poop once. My dog never poops, obviously.

  58. Fracking is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    .. like sticking a giant dick into the asshole of mother earth.

  59. Not enough data by jameshofo · · Score: 1

    By far there is not enough data for them to come to a good conclusion about "fracking" in general. The problem is they use concrete to line holes and direct fluids, its not a matter if, but when something like that cracks. It's the same reason you have a gutters and drain spouts that lead water away from your house, that fluid pushing against your foundation constantly pushes and seeks an entrance. Your house shifts a fraction of a fraction and that water can seep in.

    --
    Good leaders run toward problems, bad leaders hide from them.
  60. Federal study finds there is no financial fraud. by boorack · · Score: 1

    Does anybody still believes what federal study "finds" ? They lied aboud GoM. They lied about financial fraud for years. They're busy covering up malfeasances of their corporate friends and they don't give a crap about ordinary citizens. They're busy spying everyone and jailing folks who point out their corruption and coverups. Is there anybody who still believes statements from our lovely government ?

  61. No. The methane was NOT there already. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is clearly the new talking point used by professional shills. "Methane was already there!"

    It's bullshit.

    Well casings, (the cement pipe which carries the gas up from the depths) fail and gas migrates through the upper stratas of rock into the aquifer. This happens a LOT.

    The gas companies know it. Their own studies show that it happens at an alarming rate. People have been silenced, sued, forced to move from their properties when their water is contaminated.

    Check out this clip starting at around 5:00 to see the gas companies' own literature on the subject.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTM1hTR3nhE

    Don't get taken in by these professional spin doctors.

  62. The current big lie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The current lie being repeated often enough is that "the methane was already in the water"

    Based on the frequency of this misinformed statement and the number of posts spitting it out, it can be reasonably suspected as being the new disseminated talking point.

    Shills are employed to monitor news stories like this one and litter the discussion with these bogus points.

    Here's the real scoop:

    Yes, there may be some quantities of methane in natural water, but what we're seeing are sudden spikes which are off the charts when fracking begins.

    How does it happen? The explosions are so far down!

    Easy. This is the part which is left out of the publicity power point demos:

    Well casings are the cement pipes which travel all the way up from the shale to the surface to transport the gas. Laying that concrete casing is not easy and it regularly fails. A mile of earth can be expected to shift and a mile of concrete pipe is like a brittle vein with contents under pressure. Cracks are absolutely inevitable. Consider a sidewalk.

    When the concrete fails, pressurized gas and fracking fluids are forced into the surrounding earth and gets into the aquifer.

    That's how it works. And the gas companies know it.

    By their own estimates, 5% of the wells start leaking immediately and then others rapidly fail over time. Upwards to 35% of wells leak in this way. This is from the gas company's own internal literature.

    See this clip starting at 5:00 for more info.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTM1hTR3nhE

    Any attacks on this post should be viewed as suspect. The gas industry has already been caught hiring ex mil psyops professionals to wage campaigns against protest groups and communities trying to keep the gas giants out. They're even twisting things to label affected home owners as Eco Terrorists. It is stupid to expect any different on line.

    Stay safe. Post anon. This is not a game.

  63. As Safe as AIDS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I remember when AIDs oficially wasn't supposed to exist. Or be really important. Or survive in extracted blood. Or blood products. Or mutate wildly. Or ...

    Next up, "Fracking Has Nothing To Do With Earthquakes"?

    My solution is, make them and their families live there. And eat, drink, wear, use local.

  64. Marker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yeah, but I wasn't over. Gimme the marker Dude, I'm marking it 8

  65. basis in research by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Lets keep in mind a series of reports by NPR a year or two ago in which they examined the results of university studies (Penn State) being basised in favor of the energy companies doing the drilling. Turns out the energy companies were the ones funding the research, as the adage goes - you get what you pay for.

  66. That's it. The science is settled. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The scientific consensus is that fracking is harmless. Everyone who disagrees is a denier. No further studies questioning the safeness of fracking will be funded, nor published by any reputable scientific journal. Any scientist who disagrees is a shill paid for by big wind and big solar. They should be sanctioned and no longer be able allowed to practice in their field. Politicians who deny the safety of fracking should be charged with crimes against humanity.

  67. But consider the source by cundare · · Score: 1
    Everyone knows you can't trust the liberal media. This story was reported by the Associated Press and picked up by CBS. I'm sure Rush & Glenn Beck will both condemn the conclusion, based solely on their scientific background and canny understanding of the "mainstream media."

    Seriously, though, just in case there's somebody reading this who really is interested in an objective analysis, this study certainly does have some probative value. How much value, of course, is a function of the design and the scope of the research methodology, and the conclusion should be considered within the context of existing research. These results might be game-changing; but they might be characterize a case that's three standard deviations from the mean; or they might be wrong. And the sources cited here don't provide enough detail to figure that out. Interested parties should investigate further before spouting opinions.

    Although asking the right questions, like some are doing here, seems to me to be a logical first step toward putting these findings into perspective. Bravo to you!

    D

  68. Technical Tour by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Applying the same methodology to faust and furryus gun-running, exploding sportscars, runaway adolescents ...Oh, my!

  69. problems with the conclusions, not the study by gzuckier · · Score: 1

    first, fracking has come to mean the whole sphere of environmental damage involved with natural gas wells, not specifically actual specific fracking. (Yeah, I don't approve of imprecision either, but...) for instance, methane contamination of water which is so frequent a complaint, or as widely publicized recently, the release of methane as part of the gas extraction process, which, given the very high AGW potential of methane, can easily overwhelm whatever advantage natural gas has in terms of lower AGW.

    second, is every fracking carried out 3,000 feet below the water well depths? (not rhetorical, I really don't know)

    --
    Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.