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13-Inch Haswell-Powered MacBook Air With PCIe SSD Tested

MojoKid writes "In addition to the anticipated performance gains that Intel's new Haswell CPU architecture might bring to the table for their new MacBook Air, there are additional component-level upgrades that Apple baked in to their latest ultra-light notebook; namely a higher capacity 54 Whr battery and a PCI Express-based Solid State Drive (SSD). Apple still hasn't seen fit to up the ante on the MacBook Air's display, opting instead to stick with the 1440x900 TN panel carried over from the previous generation 13-inch machine, with the 11-inch variant sporting a 1366x768 native res. But in terms of performance, this is Apple's fastest Air yet, with storage throughput in excess of 700MB/sec for reads and 400MB/sec for writes, along with graphics horsepower that rivals entry level discrete GPUs, thanks to Intel's HD Graphic 5000 core in Haswell. Battery life has been improved dramatically as well, with the new Air lasting over 9 hrs on a charge, playing back 1080p video content. Apple also reduced their MSRP by $100 versus last year's model." Not too bad at around $1100. The 54Wh battery looks it improves the portability a bit.

224 comments

  1. seems the Mac premium is disappearing by Trepidity · · Score: 5, Insightful

    That's actually a pretty competitive price. I can't find a way to configure, say, a Lenovo Ultrabook with an SSD and anywhere near comparable CPU for less than $1200.

    1. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That's actually a pretty competitive price. I can't find a way to configure, say, a Lenovo Ultrabook with an SSD and anywhere near comparable CPU for less than $1200.

      Not only that, Lenovo's business x-class is still only offering last years ivybridge processors.

    2. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by OzPeter · · Score: 5, Informative

      That's actually a pretty competitive price. I can't find a way to configure, say, a Lenovo Ultrabook with an SSD and anywhere near comparable CPU for less than $1200.

      IMHO the "Mac Premium" has always been overstated for things like the Air. Yes the computing power per $ ratio may be lower than for competitors - but only when you don't take form factor into account. Every time a competitor produces an Air apparent in a similar form factor the price comes in about the same.

      --
      I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
    3. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      pricing wise i it is ok, but performance wise it is lacking, especially in the screen quality department, many of the similar priced notebooks have significantly better screens and the same or better battery life. The disk is the only nice part of that machine to make it stand out, and it becomes questionable why you would need that sort of SSD performance in a portable, still nice though.

    4. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's always like that. At first. The problem is that Apple's lineup doesn't update as frequently as ***every competitor combined***, so people like to bitch nine months after launch that an Apple computer is overpriced.

      And of course, get your upgrades from a third party. Sometimes the first-party premium can be several hundred dollars.

    5. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by dunng808 · · Score: 1

      Is there a way to connect an optical drive so that games that require them can be played? Sorry, don't know any specific titles, I ask on behalf of my two sons.

      --

      Gary Dunn
      Open Slate Project

    6. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Air apparent

      I see what you did there!

    7. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes. It's called USB.

    8. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, you can use any USB DVD drive on the market in my experience. Or if you want fancy there is an Apple branded version as well.

    9. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by SimonTheSoundMan · · Score: 2

      Any external USB CD-ROM drive works. They start at around $15.

    10. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by nojayuk · · Score: 1

      How do the warranties compare? Adding the cost of a of couple years of Applecare support to match the usual 3-year Lenovo out-of-the-box warranty can make the numbers look a bit more lopsided.

    11. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "Mac premium"? I know this might be news to most Slashdotters, but the 90's ended 13 years ago.

    12. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by datavirtue · · Score: 1

      Lenovo doesn't have out of the box three year warranties. I just got a T-530 laptop and it only came with one year mail-in crap warranted and had no options to purchase more.

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
    13. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Let's see some of those 13" laptops with better than 1440x900 screens and 12 hour battery life for those prices.

    14. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by alen · · Score: 3, Insightful

      apple warranty is you take it an apple store and they fix it

      lenovo means you have to send it somewhere

    15. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple is usually pretty aggressive at updating the MacBook line to Intel's latest and greatest. Not so much with the desktop machines though.

    16. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by Rockoon · · Score: 5, Informative

      The problem is that Apple's lineup doesn't update as frequently as ***every competitor combined***, so people like to bitch nine months after launch that an Apple computer is overpriced.

      No, the problem is that the price doesnt update as frequently as every other competitor.

      You are arguing a straw man right now. Nobody complained that Apple doesnt update their Air feature set more frequently. The complaint continues to be that Apple will try to sell this ultrabook at the current price well beyond the point where competitors have much nicer solutions at much lower prices.

      The proof is quite simple:

      If you purchased an 11.6" Macbook Air 30 days ago, it cost you $1100 but what was inside was a 1.7ghz i5-3317U, 128GB SSD, 4GB DDR3, with a 1366x768 display.

      These specific features are common in ultrabooks, but for the same money you can have an upgrade:

      Same price (little lower actually), 1.7ghz i5-3317U, 128GB SSD, 4GB DDR3, 11.6" 1920x1080 touch screen, convertible.

      How about a faster CPU too, 1.8ghz i5-3337U, 128GB SSD, 4GB DDR3, 11.6" 1920x1080 touch screen, convertible.

      Wow, its $100 cheaper!, 1.8ghz i5-3337U, 128GB SSD, 8GB DDR3, 11.6" 1920x1080 touch screen, convertible.

      The Apple Premium remained in full effect for ultrabook shoppers last month, and will be again be in full effect a month from now too.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    17. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Certain models are still ridiculously overpriced. (Single socket Mac Pro, I'm looking at you.)

      Also, ten years ago, Apple sold an inexpensive low-end laptop called the iBook. They no longer offer such plebeian products.

    18. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It has USB and thunderbolt ports. I suppose that if there aren't thunderbolt optical drives yet, that there will be at some point. No need to get the expensive Apple optical drive. The generic one I plugged in worked just fine.

    19. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by nojayuk · · Score: 3, Interesting

      My nearest Apple store is over 50 miles away. That's a day out of my life to take it there and maybe another day to go collect it later. Then again I'm lucky that I have an Apple store (just the one though) in my native country.

      The Samsung monitor I've got hooked up to this machine as a secondary display blew out on me a year or so back, but it was covered by a 3-year on-site swapout warranty at no extra cost. I had to wait a couple of days for the swap to take place but I didn't have to waste my time travelling hundreds of miles to get the damn thing replaced and I didn't need to post it anywhere either.

    20. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by danbob999 · · Score: 2

      If you pick Apple's cheapest laptop, and try to build an equivalent PC, you will find that the Mac premium is close to 0.

      However go get that $500 laptop, and try to configure an equivalent Mac. It will be 3x the price, only because you will have to get a Macbook Pro to get a 15" display.

      For most people, an high end laptop is $750-1000. Just before the beggining of Apple's cheapest laptop.
      The Mac premium is mostly a lack of choices other than ultra high end machines. Don't forget their cheapest desktop that can hold two hard drives and an optical drive is the Mac Pro. It doesn't mean that Apple do not have decently-priced options. It's that they don't have options which serve most people needs without paying that premium.

    21. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by SKorvus · · Score: 1

      A USB optical drive like Apple's USB Superdrive, or a 3rd party DVD-RW.

      Or buy your games through Steam and the App Store.

      --
      Live simply, that others may simply live. -Gandhi
    22. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the US, if you have AppleCare and live far enough from an Apple Store you can call and arrange for a qualified technician to visit your home and do the swap or repair work on-site. I actually had this done with an iMac that I didn't want to lug into a store 20 miles away. It's a pretty nice service for no charge.

    23. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You left out battery life, where the MBA gets almost double all of those.

    24. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Updating the price is updating the lineup. You're the one injecting strawmen, here, by trying to be overly pedantic. Chill out.

    25. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by dfghjk · · Score: 0, Troll

      Apparently you don't remember the first $3000 Airs. Their overpriced-ness and under-usefulness could not be overstated.

      But yes, as long as you can justify getting less for your money because there's something Apple offers that's worth "more", you can justify anything (and people do).

      I would say that Apple has reduced the price premium because it can no longer be supported, not that competitors can't build a machine for less. There's plenty of evidence for that. No one came out with an "Air apparent" at $3000 during generation 1 nor did anyone introduce such a crappy product as that one was. Apple's overpricing is alive and well, as we will see when the new Pro comes out. Apple won't leave a dollar on the table.

    26. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by Gilmoure · · Score: 1

      Us, can share a drive from another Mac (System Preferences / Share / share DVD drive) or you can plug in a DVD drive via USB.

      --
      I drank what? -- Socrates
    27. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by vux984 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Every time a competitor produces an Air apparent in a similar form factor the price comes in about the same.

      For the base model. Just don't select any upgrades.

      Especially don't select RAM upgrades. Apple charges $100 to upgrade from 4GB to 8GB of RAM... so effectively $100 for 4GB. You can get 8GB of brand name (Corsair, G.Skill, Crucial...) laptop ram at RETAIL for less than $70.

      So... you can buy twice the amount of ram at -retail- for 30% less than Apple will charge you just to upgrade.

      THAT is the 'mac premium'.

      The other big piece of the mac premium is the comparative slowness with which apple refreshes specs combined with the complete lack of price updates. So today, at launch, the MacBook Air is a decent value. Six months from now it will be the same specs and the same price, while everything from everyone else has either gotten cheaper or better or both.

      A year from now, its even worse. This is a decent site for tracking things.
      http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/

      Where you can see on average many products go for over a year without an update, while the price doesn't change a penny. People buying a mac pro in May 2012 were buying the same specs for the same money as they were paying for a mac pro in July 2010. At launch the Mac Pro was reasonable value. By the time it got a refresh the Mac Pro was laughably expensive for a laughably out of date product. It wouldn't be so bad if the price drifted down, or if the specs got regular bumps... but they don't.

      When a major new chipset is released everyone releases their new products based on it, and blows out stock on any old stuff. Not apple. Haswell is out, great. But the macbook pro doesn't have it yet, you still get last years chipset, and at last years prices.

      Moral seems to be buy a mac product shortly after launch and its good value for the money; but pay attention to the upgrades. Hard drive capacity bumps, RAM bumps, and any adapters tend to be just stupid expensive from apple.

    28. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Updating the price is updating the lineup? That doesn't even make sense. Methinks you don't know what a straw man argument is...

    29. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, the "Mac Premium" or "Mac Tax" has been exaggerated for years. People will do things like look at the Mac Pro and say, "Well the cheapest Mac tower I can buy is $2,500, but I can get a Dell tower for $250. Apple costs 10x as much as Dell." Of course, if you spec out a professional grade Dell workstation with equivalent parts, the price gets much closer.

      You may not want a Mac. For your needs, a Mac may not be the best deal. However, the price is not bad for what you get.

    30. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wouldn't buy either, but the Sony VAIO Pro 11 has full HD and a touch screen for around the same price. I think Asus had a similar machine as well.

    31. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Asus, Acer and Sony all have competive offerings announced with similar or better battery life (with the haswell chips) and massively better screen quality. Think the Sony and Acer ones are already available and the Asus one is announced but not yet in the shops.

    32. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by rsmith-mac · · Score: 4, Insightful

      For the base model. Just don't select any upgrades. Especially don't select RAM upgrades. Apple charges $100 to upgrade from 4GB to 8GB of RAM... so effectively $100 for 4GB. You can get 8GB of brand name (Corsair, G.Skill, Crucial...) laptop ram at RETAIL for less than $70.

      Note that the Airs have their DDR3L memory soldered directly onto the motherboard to save space. You can't buy aftermarket memory for those models, so this advice is out of date at best.

    33. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by viperidaenz · · Score: 3, Informative

      Last time I did that the Dell was cheaper and the Xeon's were a later generation.

    34. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by dubbreak · · Score: 1

      I'd have to agree for the current generation of MBA, but MBP are still not competitive if you don't need the OS. When buying a new laptop for work I priced a MBP 15" (pre-retina) and compared it to an equally spec'd Samsung 7 series. Even if I purchased a current model refurb it was twice the price for the same processor, less ram, smaller HD etc. The Samsung series 7 aren't as nice as a MBP aesthetically (less aluminum, keyboard isn't as nice) but nearly $1000 kept in pocket gives me a lot of flexibility to get other gear. When the MBP Retina came out I was keen on getting one (I love me some pixels, more vertical resolution the better for programming) but the video performance is abysmal on the 13" and for the price of the 15" I'd rather make due with less pixels in my laptop and get a nice high resolution external monitor.

      I'm going to have to break down and buy a newer Mac at some point. Mine is now useless for supporting OS X/iOS software since it arbitrarily can't use the latest release of OS X (though my wife's newer gen with a nearly identical proc and identical video is supported.. performance issue my ass, it's just forced upgrades). MBA is getting more and more tempting since the performance has improved and the price point is so temping. A few of my dev friends are using them as their main dev machines. Of course they mainly do server side dev which is a little different from my usage (Unity 3D, photoshop, Blender, Monodevelop).. though I'm sure the current machines would handle those well enough, it's the running Windows 7/8 VMs along side I'd be wary of (both processor and space-wise). Only option is use bootcamp so I'm running the Windows stuff I need to run natively, but that means I'm paying the OS X tax for no good reason (though it is a lot less painful than the past).

      --
      "If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
    35. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by Skuld-Chan · · Score: 1

      Wha?

    36. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

      Comparing Mac Pro's with Dell workstations.

    37. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by toQDuj · · Score: 1

      Here in Japan, they send a courier with an empty box to your place, you put the computer in the box and they ship it for you to Apple. Turnaround time was usually on the order of a week.

      --
      Every experiment which ends in a big bang is a good experiment.
    38. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Apparently you don't remember the first $3000 Airs. Their overpriced-ness and under-usefulness could not be overstated.

      No one came out with an "Air apparent" at $3000 during generation 1 nor did anyone introduce such a crappy product as that one was. Apple's overpricing is alive and well, as we will see when the new Pro comes out. Apple won't leave a dollar on the table.

      Wrong. The first MacBook Air sold for $1,799.
      The Cool Thing to do at that time (and I guess now?) was to ONLY quote the price of a fully-decked-out BTO unit, as some sort of case of Apple excess.

    39. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clearly you've never used a macbook air if you think that MSI crapbook is of similar quality.

    40. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by vux984 · · Score: 2

      Note that the Airs have their DDR3L memory soldered directly onto the motherboard to save space.

      The upgrade pricing applies to the entire line not just airs. And its definitely true that macs have become steadily less user-upgradable, meaning they just have you even more over the barrel when it comes to pricing the upgrades.

    41. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by retchdog · · Score: 3

      yeah, yeah, this is all true of course, but it misses the fucking point.

      macs sell at a premium unwarranted by the technical specs.

      however the technical specs don't include what matters: 1) the only consumer unix which is stable and feature-complete, 2) the only trackpad in the industry which doesn't suck.

      i could live without (2), and i wish there were another choice for (1). if there were a variant of linux with the stability and features of mac os x, i'd happily pay $150+ per year to run it on a thinkpad. however, this isn't an option, and compared to what i'm willing to pay, a macbook is a bargain! a macbook lasts for at least 4 years, so $150*4=$600; easy!

      apple is literally the only choice. i don't like that, and i acknowledge that apple is a monopolistic scumbag, but they're currently the only vendor who actually gives a shit about user experience and is willing to invest r&d in that.

      i don't like giving apple my money, and i have to suppress the urge to vomit every time i have to go to their goddam "genius bar" to fix a silly problem with their hardware, but there's really no choice at the moment. i hope this changes.

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
    42. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      VAIO Pro has full HD and a touch screen, and is even lighter than the MBA. In a welcome change for ultracompact VAIOs, it even feels pretty sturdy and robust. However, it also costs a couple of hundred dollars more than an MBA, and also has lower battery life unless you buy the large battery pack, which more than negates the weight advantage and worsens the cost situation. It is not a bad machine by any means, but when I played with one in a store, I couldn't help but feel that Sony tried too hard to beat Apple on specs and came up with a poorly balanced machine.

    43. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No need for a second Mac. You can share a DVD drive from a Windows box.

    44. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The easiest approach is just to take disk images of the DVDs (for all the 2 games that still require that).

    45. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, the iBook cost exactly what the MacBook Air costs now.

    46. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      It's not to save space. Other manufacturers do thinner, lighter laptops with real RAM sockets. NEC's LaVie ultrabook range, for example.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    47. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So how do you replace the battery? Or is it a throwaway machine?

    48. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by uglyduckling · · Score: 1

      I consider not releasing several updates to the same computer line in a year to be an advantage. Known hardware platform, not a moving target. Serious issues with the hardware or firmware usually get fixed. Third party software or peripherals that have an issue on a particular model usually get fixed by the developer. Other manufacturers may be happy to leave issues unsolved when it's a problem on one of thirty models on the market that will be replaced in 2 months time. Peripheral developers probably cannot get hold of the particular Dell or Asus model that doesn't work on their device, so it just gets left.

    49. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by uglyduckling · · Score: 1

      Also the build quality and robustness tends to be a lot better than competitors. I think this has changed in the past 18 months or so as some manufacturers have copied the Apple design style - and added some of their own enhancements - but there are still plenty of creaky plasticky blobs on the market. The price premium compared to high-end Sony, Dell, Asus etc. really isn't that big (and sometimes Apple comes in cheaper) but if you compare tech specs alone than Apple will look pricey.

    50. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by retchdog · · Score: 1

      yeah, that was going to be (3), but i got lazy.

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
    51. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My nearest Apple store is over 50 miles away. That's a day out of my life to take it there

      Do you have a car, or are you biking this? Or no, that doesn't even make it a day. Are you trying to run an ultramarathon to go to an Apple store?

    52. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      System76

    53. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by nojayuk · · Score: 1

      I have a car but I live in a city centre, it takes me at least half an hour to get to the outskirts through a maze of twisty little roads. After that it's about 40 minutes by motorway then another half-hour to get to the city-centre store where there's no local parking as it's in a pedestrian shopping street so I would have to park some distance away and walk. Time at the store, wait wait wait, then reverse the process. Four or five hours at least and it has to be done during the store's opening hours so I can't do this in the evening after work. That's a day taken up pretty much.

      It's actually easier and cheaper for me to take the train if I need to go there, assuming I'm OK carrying whatever it is needs fixing - a 30" Thunderbolt display is not a small bundle to tuck under one arm.

    54. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      1) the only consumer unix which is stable and feature-complete,

      Why didn't you just say OSX. As for "stable" and "feature complete" that is in the eye of the beholder and the features one wants, for example a modern high performance filing system. Or a VM and shceduler which don't croak under heavy load.

      Why do I care about those things? Because when I buy a fast machine, I buy it beacuse I know I will tax the hardware. Other operating systems get more out of some given hardware, effectively increasing the specs.

      Or hey, a decent package management system. That would be nice too! Yeah I know about fink and macports but those both sucked when I used them.

      if there were a variant of linux with the stability and features of mac os x,

      Well, OSX doesn't have all the features of Linux, so I wouldn't expect Linux to have all the features of OSX. Honestly I don't even want it to. I happen to like Linux a great deal and I personally feel that the Windows envy which later morphed into Mac envy has been damaging on the whole.

      Choice is great! woo hoo!

      apple is literally the only choice.

      Not at all. I'm sure you could get by on Windows just fine because all your programs would run there. There is a choice, but for you Apple is currently the optimal one.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    55. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      When talking about the MacBook Air, remember that the thickness of the entire machine is less than most SODIMM slots and retaining clips.

      Oh, and Apple is hardly alone in sacrificing user-installable parts in favor of making things thinner and lighter. Lenovo's X1 Carbon, which is the closest thing that the traditional Windows vendors have to a MacBook Air, doesn't have upgradeable RAM or storage either.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    56. Re: seems the Mac premium is disappearing by iamhassi · · Score: 1

      Also Apple products all seem to have the same level of quality. PC products, even high-end models, have a wide range of quality levels. Sometimes it's worth paying a little more for something you know is going to be built well, especially if you don't plan on replacing it anytime soon. It also seems easier to get support for Apple products. Go to forums, ask a question and everyone has an answer because everyone has the same model. Go to a PC laptop forum and good luck finding anyone with the same model you have. I have never owned a Apple PC but this is my last windows laptop, when windows 7 becomes old I'm going to Mac unless Microsoft works the bugs out of Windows 8 and makes it as user friendly as iOS

      --
      my karma will be here long after I'm gone
    57. Re: seems the Mac premium is disappearing by iamhassi · · Score: 1

      Acer never makes high quality products and the last Asus zendesk ultrabook had a lot of problems. Sony might be decent but someone already replied saying its close but costs more than MacBook Air but worse battery life. One nice thing about Apple is all their products are high quality and built well, unlike some acer laptops I've seen with flexing keyboards and screens.

      --
      my karma will be here long after I'm gone
    58. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

      No way! You mean the iHaters are full of shit? Apple is doomed! DOOMED! I tell you!!!

    59. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The HP ultrabook has the same problem, and HP does not even offer 8GB as an option for any price. By that measure, the Apple price is a bargain...

    60. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      I can count on one hand the number of times I've used an optical drive in the last 3 years. Software is delivered as disk images now, if not straight up installer packages. People don't burn backups any more, and they don't burn custom mix CDs anymore in the age of bluetooth and smartphones.

      The only thing optical drives are used regularly for anymore are for converting movies from an optical disc, so that you don't have to use the optical disc anymore.

      Apple was the first to bin the floppy drive and legacy device connectors too, and people made the same tired arguments then. Where's are the floppy drives and serial ports now?

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    61. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by danbob999 · · Score: 1

      When I was in college they had the good idea to buy iMacs (the old ones, with a CRT monitor). They also bought an expensive external USB floppy adapter for each of them, because it was still a common way for students to carry their files.
      Thanks Apple. Lack of choice always carry a price premium.

    62. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      It's not to save space. Other manufacturers do thinner, lighter laptops with real RAM sockets. NEC's LaVie ultrabook range, for example.

      Most however, don't. The ones that do tend to be a fair bit thicker (I think the height of an SODIMM slot is what, 4mm?). Or larger, like a 15" model.

      But the Dells, Lenovos and other units you can actually buy tend to have soldered on RAM as well.

      But to be honest, other than upgrading it once, does anyone really upgrade the RAM in their PC? Most people I bet don't, and it's not too much more to overbuy at the beginning given how fast things change.

    63. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by vux984 · · Score: 1

      I consider not releasing several updates to the same computer line in a year to be an advantage

      I don't really disagree, and there's no question that Dell's budget consumer stuff that's constantly changing is often crap.

      But theres two extremes, and neither is good. I'm not asking for new models weekly, but as the price of ram and hard drives and cpus come down, then the price of the laptop should come down with it. Or they should just start including larger hard drives and more ram and cpu upgrades at the base model price.

      No new firmware, or big redesigns are required.

    64. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by vux984 · · Score: 1

      Oh, and Apple is hardly alone in sacrificing user-installable parts in favor of making things thinner and lighter. Lenovo's X1 Carbon, which is the closest thing that the traditional Windows vendors have to a MacBook Air, doesn't have upgradeable RAM or storage either.

      Difference is that Apple price structure runs across their whole product line. Its not just the Air.

      Lenovo's X1 Carbon, which is the closest thing that the traditional Windows vendors have to a MacBook Air, doesn't have upgradeable RAM or storage either.

      Perhaps not, but there are 20 different Windows vendors each with a line up of ultrabooks. So the odds of finding the pre-configured option you want is a lot higher; and thanks to 20 different vendors they compete on features and price.

      Apple has 2 13" macbook airs. The one with the bigger SSD and the one with the smaller SSD. And they cost X, and will still cost X right up until the day they are discontinued. Take it or leave it.

    65. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Worth more = OS X.

    66. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by Junior+J.+Junior+III · · Score: 1

      My nearest Apple store is over 50 miles away. That's a day out of my life to take it there and maybe another day to go collect it later. Then again I'm lucky that I have an Apple store (just the one though) in my native country.

      That's very sad, in my native country we can go 55 miles in an HOUR (but we complain about it.)

      --
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    67. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Methinks you don't know what a straw man argument is...

      Isn't that when you fight with someone lacking courage?

    68. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple charges $100 to upgrade from 4GB to 8GB of RAM... so effectively $100 for 4GB. You can get 8GB of brand name (Corsair, G.Skill, Crucial...) laptop ram at RETAIL for less than $70.

      You're kinda dumb, you know? Every vendor I'm aware of overcharges for RAM. When it's a machine where the RAM is socketed, you have the option of buying it cheaper elsewhere, and that's no different for Apple than (say) HP. When it's a machine with soldered RAM, like lots of ultrabooks, you just pay up front for how much RAM you think you're likely to ever need, because you have no other option. I've been pricing computers recently and Apple is far from alone in charging more than market value for soldered RAM.

      The other big piece of the mac premium is the comparative slowness with which apple refreshes specs combined with the complete lack of price updates. So today, at launch, the MacBook Air is a decent value. Six months from now it will be the same specs and the same price, while everything from everyone else has either gotten cheaper or better or both. A year from now, its even worse.

      Uh, you do know that Intel releases new chip designs (the primary source of new specs and so forth in these machines, especially at today's levels of integration) at a rate of only about once a year, right? In 6 months, the most that will have changed is a Haswell mid-cycle speed bump (probably 100-200 MHz judging by Sandy and Ivy). Apple usually just silently slips those speed bumps in without making a big deal out of them.

      Where you can see on average many products go for over a year without an update, while the price doesn't change a penny. People buying a mac pro in May 2012 were buying the same specs for the same money as they were paying for a mac pro in July 2010. At launch the Mac Pro was reasonable value. By the time it got a refresh the Mac Pro was laughably expensive for a laughably out of date product. It wouldn't be so bad if the price drifted down, or if the specs got regular bumps... but they don't.

      The Mac Pro is not the MacBook Air. You haven't been paying much attention if you think Apple hasn't been johnny-on-the-spot about refreshing the Air, which is their most important Mac product. They basically do it in lock step with Intel's production ramps.

      When a major new chipset is released everyone releases their new products based on it, and blows out stock on any old stuff. Not apple. Haswell is out, great.

      Er, I nearly believe that Apple jumped on Haswell as soon as they could for the Air, and has completely replaced Ivy Bridge in that line, and is blowing out the old stock. What more do you want out of them?!

      But the macbook pro doesn't have it yet, you still get last years chipset, and at last years prices.

      Oh, I see. You want the impossible. Here's a hint: Intel chose to do a staggered rollout of mobile Haswell. The only version in full production status right now is the 15W "ultrabook" variant.

    69. Re:seems the Mac premium is disappearing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not to save space. Other manufacturers do thinner, lighter laptops with real RAM sockets. NEC's LaVie ultrabook range, for example.

      Errm, the LaVie ultrabooks don't seem to have replaceable RAM - at least none that I could find. But I'm sure you again made an honest mistake, like you always do.

  2. Yeah, but by acariquara · · Score: 2, Funny

    Can it run Crysis?

    /ducks

    --
    Dear aunt, let's set so double the killer delete select all
    1. Re:Yeah, but by crutchy · · Score: 0

      wait for the hasbro-powered macbook air... it will be able to transform into rosie huntington-whiteley

    2. Re:Yeah, but by jkflying · · Score: 0

      And does it blend?

      --
      Help I am stuck in a signature factory!
    3. Re:Yeah, but by Anubis+IV · · Score: 1

      Not individually, but imagine a Beowulf cluster of these...

      Yeah, probably still can't do it well once you introduce networking latency.

    4. Re:Yeah, but by SimonTheSoundMan · · Score: 0

      It's an Apple product, of course it does. It gets its performance form the users sense of one's self-importance.

    5. Re:Yeah, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's an Apple product, of course it does.

      I read this right below "And does it blend?" followed by "Not individually, but imagine a Beowulf cluster of these...".

      Now I've got this image of a cluster of them being blended.

    6. Re:Yeah, but by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      It's an Apple product, of course it does.

      I read this right below "And does it blend?" followed by "Not individually, but imagine a Beowulf cluster of these...".

      Now I've got this image of a cluster of them being blended.

      In Soviet Russia, MacBook Airs blend YOU (into Natalie Portman's hot grits)!
      Now set us up the bomb! For great justice.

    7. Re:Yeah, but by gman003 · · Score: 1

      Yes, but at 40fps, 1024x768, and low detail settings.

      Crysis never really was a "needs a beast rig to run" game. I played it on a low-end gaming laptop a year or so after it came out, on medium settings. The difficulty is mainly in maxing it out, at high resolutions. You still need a massive system to max it out at 2560x1440, or at 5760x1080. It's a game that starts at a moderately low load for minimum settings, but continues to benefit from performance increases until you reach a *very* high level.

    8. Re:Yeah, but by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      mmkay

  3. 1080P! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Just not on the embedded display...

    1. Re:1080P! by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      The reason is power consumption. If you look at the retina laptops they have 95Wh batteries to support those things.

      Some other manufacturers are offering full HD screens with similar size batteries and run-time (NEC for example), but they use more expensive Sharp LCDs. Currently Apple's suppliers (LG and Samsung) don't offer low power 1080p screens at a price Apple is willing to pay.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  4. I have one ... by gander666 · · Score: 4, Informative

    And I love it. I get about 2 - 3 days of average use out of the battery (home use, after work, on the couch, 3 - 4 hours each night). I get an honest 12 hours from the battery with normal use. Snappy, and very usable. I thought I would miss my macbook pro, but I really don't.

    --
    Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress ... but I repeat myself. - Mark T
    1. Re:I have one ... by ArcadeMan · · Score: 1

      If you don't miss your MacBook Pro, send it to me. My 12" PowerBook G4 is getting old.

    2. Re:I have one ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny, I went from an Ivy Bridge Air to a 15" Retina, not sure I could go back. I'd been on various Airs from 2008-2013. This display on a 4lbs well built laptop, hard to pass up.

    3. Re:I have one ... by OzPeter · · Score: 1

      I thought I would miss my macbook pro

      I'd be missing my (older) macbook pro. I have 12Gb of RAM in it and I use that memory all the time running 3 W7 VMs simultaneously* . From what I can see of Apple you can't order more than 8Gb of RAM in an Air.

      * Due to a stupid Windows based program that I have to use that can only run as a single instance and I need 3 of the damn things open at a time.

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    4. Re:I have one ... by OzPeter · · Score: 1

      I'd also miss my hardwired ethernet port

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    5. Re:I have one ... by gander666 · · Score: 1

      My Macbook pro has 16G, a SSD in the main HD spot, and I replaced the optical drive with a 750G Seagate 7500RPM drive. It is still my media server, and I do heavy photoshop work on it, but I don't miss the fact that I got about 2 hours of battery life (even with a fresh battery in it) before I started hunting for a power outlet.

      The MBA is definitely an experiment, but I haven't missed the ethernet port or the FW2 port so far. I can't remember the last time I needed an optical drive (ok, well, recently I had to burn a firmware CD for my BluRay player).

      --
      Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress ... but I repeat myself. - Mark T
    6. Re:I have one ... by timeOday · · Score: 1

      I dunno, 8 GB is not small, and it is paired with a 700 MB/s disk! With that kind of speed, swap doesn't really mean the same thing as it did on a 50 MB/s hard drive just a few years ago.

    7. Re:I have one ... by OzPeter · · Score: 1

      The MBA is definitely an experiment, but I haven't missed the ethernet port or the FW2 port so far. I can't remember the last time I needed an optical drive (ok, well, recently I had to burn a firmware CD for my BluRay player).

      I'm trying to use my MBP as a replacement for my Dell as a work laptop so I need the ethernet port and the optical drive for all the industry related software that I used that can't be easily downloaded. If I was sensible and not trying to make a point I would have bought another Dell to replace my Latitude D820. And in my line of business you sometimes even have to drop back to using the serial port - which I miss from my MBP! (and no .. USB to serial adapters cannot be trusted to work all the time due to stupid software treating the RS-232 control signals in non-standard manners)

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    8. Re:I have one ... by datavirtue · · Score: 1

      Due to a stupid Windows based program that I have to use that can only run as a single instance and I need 3 of the damn things open at a time.

      Dude, that is funny.

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
    9. Re:I have one ... by Guspaz · · Score: 1

      I didn't, the thunderbolt GigE adapter is cheap (thirty bucks), so I just toss it in my bag in case I need it (if you want to use video output and GigE at the same time, use a USB3 GigE adapter instead).

    10. Re:I have one ... by OzPeter · · Score: 1

      I dunno, 8 GB is not small, and it is paired with a 700 MB/s disk!

      Believe me .. I have tried running with 8Gb. I initially went from 4Gb to 8Gb and could run two VMs happily, but it was only when I got 12Gb could I happily run 3 VMs. Yes I could "run" 3 VMs with 8Gb but it was not pretty and the price of the extra memory is trivial compared to the time wasted and frustration endured with 8Gb.

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    11. Re:I have one ... by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

      I have a 15" early 2011 MBP right now, and my job is giving me a 13" Air next week. As much as I love the MBP, I'm looking forward to carrying 3 pounds instead of 4.5 pounds in my messenger bag on the BART. It doesn't seem like a big difference on paper, but is hugely noticeable in practice.

      --
      Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
    12. Re:I have one ... by Guspaz · · Score: 1

      While it can replace most notebook uses, the mac air *is* an ultraportable... You'd be hard pressed to get more than 8GB of RAM into a laptop with a single SODIMM slot too.

      That said, 8GB is more than enough to run three Win7 VMs simultaneously, what matters at that point is what you're running inside of it.

    13. Re:I have one ... by OzPeter · · Score: 2

      That said, 8GB is more than enough to run three Win7 VMs simultaneously, what matters at that point is what you're running inside of it.

      That gives you 2Gb per OS instance (including the host) which is a pretty tight fit before you start running any major applications (which I need to do)

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    14. Re:I have one ... by citizenr · · Score: 1

      680 grams makes a difference? there are chocolates that weight more
      hit the gym or something

      --
      Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
    15. Re:I have one ... by Trepidity · · Score: 2

      Man, the 12" PowerBook G4 is still my favorite computer I've owned. Got about 5 years of full-time use out of it. Good portable form-factor, especially for the time, durable, decent battery life.

      I eventually moved on because PPC stopped being treated as a first-class citizen, and things like browsers ended up with a huge performance gap, since the modern JS engines didn't get ported to PPC. And new software stopped being available.

    16. Re:I have one ... by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      Man, the 12" PowerBook G4 is still my favorite computer I've owned. Got about 5 years of full-time use out of it. Good portable form-factor, especially for the time, durable, decent battery life.

      I eventually moved on because PPC stopped being treated as a first-class citizen, and things like browsers ended up with a huge performance gap, since the modern JS engines didn't get ported to PPC. And new software stopped being available.

      http://www.floodgap.com/software/tenfourfox/

    17. Re:I have one ... by gander666 · · Score: 1

      The last decent Windows laptop I had was a Dell Latitude D620. Solid, well build, and while not the fastest thing, it just chugged along. The HP I have now for work is pathetic.

      --
      Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress ... but I repeat myself. - Mark T
    18. Re:I have one ... by Guspaz · · Score: 2

      I'd argue that Win7 is pretty good with memory management (as is OS X), and both run fine on machines with 2GB of RAM. Running major applications, on the other hand, might be a concern if they're using a gig or more each. VMWare, though, has a variety of solutions that would help your problem. Memory ballooning (free memory is pooled), memory compression (faster to compress seldom-used RAM than to page it) and memory sharing (dedup on the memory-page level) all help. Particularly that last one.

    19. Re:I have one ... by OzPeter · · Score: 1

      VMWare, though, has a variety of solutions that would help your problem. Memory ballooning (free memory is pooled), memory compression (faster to compress seldom-used RAM than to page it) and memory sharing (dedup on the memory-page level) all help. Particularly that last one.

      I used to run VMWare .. until I decided that VirtualBox was good enough for my requirements - and I would use it again in a flash if I needed features I currently don't need. But as I stated somewhere above, I have tried 3 VMs and the host in 8Gb and it was not pretty. That may have been memory management, it may have been Disk or I/O limitations. Either way it was cheaper and faster to throw 12Gb and be done with it.

      --
      I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
    20. Re:I have one ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True the RAM limit in the Air isn't the highest, but it isn't a pro machine so I'll cut them some slack. Especially in that form factor.

    21. Re:I have one ... by tibit · · Score: 1

      By fresh battery do you mean a brand new battery? That's a crappy battery life for sure. I have an early '08 MBP with 6GB of RAM (maxed out), an SSD and HDD in place of optical drive like you do. On a new battery I can pull 6.5hrs of work when using a piece of legacy IDE software on Windows XP running under Fusion, with backlight on minimum (on a transpacific flight). Running Qt Creator with an occasional recompile I can pull close to 8hrs. The HDD is not spinning at that time of course.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    22. Re:I have one ... by gander666 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, fresh means not too aged. I don't think I ever got more than 4 - 4.5 hours. Of course it is a quad core i7, with 16G ram too (makes photoshop sweet). It is a 2011 vintage, and I am on my second battery.

      --
      Suppose you were an idiot and suppose you were a member of Congress ... but I repeat myself. - Mark T
    23. Re:I have one ... by tibit · · Score: 1

      There are many ways for you to go. I've tried all of them except the last one. I love PCIe - good luck doing any of that with legacy parallel buses. In most cases to make it presentable you need to get rid of the DVD drive and replace it with an HDD caddy. There's room left in those letting you add your own hardware - plus you get chassis to bolt/hot-glue your hardware onto.

      1. On most any macbook/macbook pro you can replace the built-in mini-PCIe wireless adapter with a serial card. Such cards do exist. Some case mods and soldering are needed to bring the wires out, but you can have native serial ports on it no problem. Been there, done that, the mod even looks presentable. I managed to fit it where the DVD used to be. From outside it looks as if Apple have put it there themselves. The DVD has been replaced with a HDD-carrying caddy anyway, so it was easy to cut out some of the caddy. I've used a mini-PCIe splitter so that I've retained the wireless functionality.

      2. On a machine with neither expresscard nor thunderbolt, you can use a mini-PCIe extender to get to an external card cage where you can plug in to your desire. You'll need an intermediate bridge right at the boundary of your laptop's case. That way you plug in the extender into a slot/connector on the case, not on the motherboard.

      3. On a machine with expresscard slot, just get an expresscard-to-PCIe-cage extender. You can plugin multiple cards there.

      4. On a machine with thunderbolt, get a thunderbolt-to-PCIe-cage extender. Many cards can go there.

      5. One could certainly lay out a board with thunderbolt-to-PCIe bridge chip, and a PCIe UART. That way you'd have a small form factor hardcore serial port. I haven't found one yet.

      --
      A successful API design takes a mixture of software design and pedagogy.
    24. Re:I have one ... by timeOday · · Score: 1
      I still wonder if that super-fast disk in the new Air wouldn't help. But it is also a bit sad; I have chosen to stick with XP for my VMs whenever possible since it uses so much less disk space and RAM than Win7. I can run half a dozen XP VMs in 8GB, and they run decently well for what I most often use them for. But maybe it's your application that's RAM-hungry.

      Anyways I hate to be on the wrong side of the argument, and the right side of the argument is that RAM is good, and more RAM is better. I am looking forward to upgrading my MacBook Pro with a Haswell model when they arrive. The 8GB RAM in my current MacBook hasn't bothered me, but the battery life is not satisfactory, and I am sure I will opt for 16 GB next time since it is affordable future-proofing.

      I also have a Dell E6430 that I mainly got out of frustration with non-swappable battery in the MacBook. It has 16 GB RAM. But the screen is so disgustingly bad that I have hardly used it - incredibly narrow viewing angle, poor colors and contrast, and a big fat bezel all the way around with big phillips screws at each corner.

    25. Re:I have one ... by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

      Makes a huge difference when you add everything up. Also makes a big difference in space. Car to office might not matter, but if you are walking a half mile on each end of the commute, or through an airport, it is a reasonably big deal.

      For me, it is the difference between being able to lug a folio with me in addition to the laptop.

      The only gripe I could come up with is that without LTE I am still stuck needing my ipad for some things.

    26. Re:I have one ... by sqrt(2) · · Score: 1

      If you're doing that much heavy lifting you need to offload some of it to a dedicated server and remote into it. If you need to take all that power with you, then you have to sacrifice portability and battery life. The MBA isn't for you. You need a MacBook Pro, or a similar PC, with maxed out specs. You're going to pay for it with having to lug around a huge machine, and several extra batteries (if you go PC). So what matters more to you?

      --
      If you build it, nerds will come. Soylentnews.org
    27. Re:I have one ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I still wonder if that super-fast disk in the new Air wouldn't help.

      I know I'm coming into the conversation late, but I suspect it wouldn't. I have an older 4GB Air with a reasonably fast SSD (only about 240 MB/s R/W, but still) and it really struggles with VMs because VM software likes to "wire" all guest memory. Which means OS X can't swap those pages out. Which dramatically increases memory pressure for the host OS and applications running under it. SSDs can make minor amounts of swapping tolerable, but you'll still notice the constant unrelenting swapping associated with having far too little RAM. For all that these SSDs are fast and getting faster, the CPU still has a > 20GB/s interface to DRAM, and more importantly the access latency is about 4 orders of magnitude better.

      I'm not totally sure why VM software loves to wire so much memory. My best guess is that doing so prevents pingponging pages between host and guest swapfiles. Early versions of Fusion didn't do it, and I get the impression that both Fusion and Parallels started doing it due to benchmark wars. Regardless, thanks to this I've come to the conclusion that in OS X 10.7+, you really really want to have at least 3GB for the host and N GB for each guest, where N is what you've set the guest's virtual memory size to. And 3GB is more of a minimum recommendation -- if you're running much native software you'll want more.

      (As you say, using XP for Windows VMs where possible is a good idea. A single-app XP VM is often happy with 512MB or less, depending on the app.)

  5. Commercials again? by fey000 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I thought I had disabled ads.

    1. Re:Commercials again? by readingaccount · · Score: 1

      It's a bit disingenuous to not expect the release of a new Apple product (even if it's just a refresh of an existing line) to be news-worthy on a tech site. If it really bugs you that a new product was released, you can either skip over the article completely (the easiest option) or remove the Apple category from the list of stories to show.

    2. Re:Commercials again? by Alomex · · Score: 1

      Sorry, but the OP snippet looks like marketing fodder and the upgrade is rather minimal, when compared to what other vendors have announced for their haswell upgrades. I'm quite alright with significant upgrades with well written summaries in /., including those from Apple, but this post was just spam.

  6. Re:Is this a joke? by SengirV · · Score: 1

    define better

    --

    Prof. Farnsworth - "Oh a lesson in not changing history from Mr I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!"

  7. Re:Is this a joke? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's blue.

  8. Nobody is buying these by tuppe666 · · Score: 0, Troll

    Why is this news, this is just another none upgradeable, overpriced, unwanted connectors; low resolution laptop...sorry electronic trinket, that nobody wants...and the Apple brand is not enough to sell these, and now without a future second hand market.

    Apples sales have dropped over the last three quarters 22%; 2%; 7% people are not buying.

    The chromebook is exciting at the low end. The surface and windows 8 are exciting (for all the wrong reasons), There are a whole load of exiting cheap ARM devices.

    Apple are simply the iPhone company..and even that has a limited shelf life; They should have kept computer in the name.

    1. Re:Nobody is buying these by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Losing 7% sales when global PC sales are down 12% is a net market share gain - and they are doing it all at the high end. I'm not sure that's a bad story.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    2. Re:Nobody is buying these by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      I got the 2012 Air when it was released. Since then, my parents each bought one, plus an iMac.

      When I got mine, they did the usual "oh, it's so light" bit and I thought that was the end of it. A few months later, I find out they bought the machines and got everything set up by themselves, including migrating data from their old computers.

      Fuck off, troll.

    3. Re:Nobody is buying these by Guspaz · · Score: 5, Informative

      The Mac Air has 56% marketshare in the ultraportable segment as of July 1st (http://bgr.com/2013/07/01/macbook-air-market-share/). So while you claim that "nobody is buying these", sales figures instead prove that "most people are buying these".

    4. Re:Nobody is buying these by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is a very relevant comment. You and your parents sure do account for the full scale of the market.

      Now maybe if you got all anonymous cowards together we could actually be statistically significant.

    5. Re:Nobody is buying these by Jerslan · · Score: 1

      If nobody was buying, then the sales drop-off would be MUCH steeper. I think the issue is that they didn't have any significant updates/upgrades released this quarter (the new Mac Pro was announced, but not actually released yet).

      The rest of the drop is probably due to most of the market that was going to switch, already has... Apple Computers require replacement by the average consumer far less often than PC's from places like Dell. For example, my parents have had the same iMac since 2007. It has never needed to go into the Apple Store for service and still receives regular software updates (originally ran 10.5, currently running 10.6, but a direct upgrade to 10.8 is available should they ever need/want it.. not sure if 10.9 will be available for it or not). Given that it's now 2013, this is a 6-year-old machine. In the 6 years prior to this iMac they went through 2 different Dell Desktops and an HP Laptop (which each cost nearly as much as the iMac did in 2007). This kind of product longevity will lead to an eventual drop in sales as their market share begins to stabilize (ie: isn't seeing "start-up-like" growth). This at least explains the drop-off in their Mac sales; people expect a mid-year update sometime in the next quarter or two and are willing to either wait for the new model or for the sell-off price-drop that always precedes them. That or maybe they waited for the "Back-To-School" sales that typically start after the 2nd quarter ends.

      When it comes to the decline in Mobile Sales... Not all their customers upgrade annually. Personally, I go for every-other release (effectively every 2 years) to maximize my carrier subsidy and get the most "bang" for my $. A lot of consumers will also hold off upgrading iOS devices if they expect a new model will be released soon, considering that September seems to be iOS Device Release/Announcement Month... that would explain a drop in sales both in the last quarter and in the current.

    6. Re:Nobody is buying these by Guspaz · · Score: 0

      So you agree that you're wrong, then. Good. Clearly if 56% of consumers are buying the Mac Air instead of an Ultrabook, they're selling a lot of them.

    7. Re:Nobody is buying these by erp_consultant · · Score: 1

      I've got an iMac, same vintage as yours. I'm running 10.8 on it with only 4GB of RAM and it runs flawlessly. Mind you, I went to the trouble to replacing the original HD with an SSD (highly recommended!). Never been in for repairs either. As much as I love the new Macs I just can't find a good reason to retire the one I have now. It's still a good light to medium use workhorse.

    8. Re:Nobody is buying these by Jerslan · · Score: 1

      Yeah, they've never needed to upgrade the original HDD. They mostly use it for Internet, E-Mail, and MS Office, so an SSD wouldn't buy them much.

    9. Re:Nobody is buying these by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh hey, Slashdot's biggest Google shill Tuppe666!

      Haven't seen your fanboy hatred in a few days, hows tricks?

    10. Re:Nobody is buying these by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

      MBA is a pretty big chuck of apple computer sales, while ultrabooks are currently a curious sideline for the Windows world. It's somewhat of an iconic part of Jobs legacy - they were thin and light when thin and light wasn't cool. That is expected to change this fall as prices to put a Haswell powered ultrabook into the sub $500 territory, and major players really start vying for more sales in the lightweight category.

      Though, to be honest, MBA may still end up with the segment mostly to itself - a larger percentage of a shrinking form factor. Many manufacturers are seeing the thin-and-light ultrabook segment as a place to go with convertibles which will act as both laptop and tablet. With W8 being able to function as a touch-centered OS, the tablet functionality adds a second dimension to the device. The move may not be for people to replace their computers with tablets, but for their computers to become tablets and cannibalize the dedicated tablet market. So far, nobody has come up with a really elegant hinge condition that allows this, but I expect it to be just a matter of time. And at the high end of the ultraportable market, the MBA is generally outclassed - though also outpriced - by high end options such as more memory, larger SSDs, higher screen resolutions, and better screen technology (IPS variants). Battery life is in favor of MBA at the moment, but that's primarily due to better - or less configurable - OS performance, and the MBA running Windows in "performance" mode results in much shorter battery life than OSX. Since the hardware is the same, it means that OSX is better at throttling back the system components to perform slower when it feels performance isn't needed. Kudos to Apple for baking that into the OS better, and they can be thankful that MS is (apparently) ignoring much of the power saving abilities since they don't have to worry about selling hardware (Surface excluded, and - lets face it - barely a niche).

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  9. Re:Apple only do Mid range by OzPeter · · Score: 4, Insightful

    IMHO the "Mac Premium"

    Mac is "mid range" for exciting premium products you have to look at companies like google with the Pixel

    Umm .. I'd suggest that you don't understand what is meant by "mac premium".

    http://www.google.com/intl/en/chrome/devices/chromebook-pixel/,

    The Chromebook is not in the same league as an Air .. they perform two different functions. If you don't have an internet connection then the Chromebook is somewhat crippled, whereas the Air is stand alone.

    this low resolution laptop so electronics is not cutting it. no wonder Apple have had drops of 22%; 2; and 7% over the last three quarters...and the reason they are not selling is not the iPad which is down -14%.

    I'm not disagreeing that Apple needs to pick up the pace, however those drops can be explained by commoditizing of the market, not that Apples products are suddenly inferior.

    --
    I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
  10. Big money earning ad for Slashdot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apple and Intel have a giant new way to cheat the benchmarks- super-turbo modes on the CPU. For a brief time, until thermal throttling kicks in, the Haswell can massively increase its clock speed (1.3 GHz becomes 2.6 GHz). When a dishonest review site gives the laptop a good cool-down period between tests, the Haswell can pretty much double its usual performance.

    Without this cheat, the new MacBook Air is actually slower than recent older models UNLESS you are using the improved integrated GPU to do calculations.

    The Haswell is better at shutting down unused functional blocks, so for light laptop use, its battery life can seem better. If you are a mid to heavy user, there is ZERO improvement in battery life.

    In other words, Intel's Haswell chip is MUCH better at doing NOTHING. It is also much better at doing a lot in VERY short bursts. Both of these 'innovations' are designed to fake apparent improvements against ARM's technical dominance in the mobile space. In fairness, these two 'innovations' that are designed to artificially improve benchmark results may also improve the laptop experience for certain categorise of users.

    However, if you CPU render 3D graphics, encode high quality video, or do anything else continuously mid-to-heavy on the CPU, you'll soon notice Haswell gives no improvement over Intel's last few generations of parts.

    Anyway, it hardly matters. Apple is going ARM for everything as soon as possible, and the failure of Haswell makes this decision even easier. ARM is infinitely better at doing nothing, and thrashes the pants off Intel for light work. As for heavy work, ARM is getting faster and faster, and offloading heavy work to the GPU gives ARM a natural cost/power advantage anyway.

    Unlike Microsoft, Apple has jumped ISA (instruction set architecture) many times in the past. 6502 -> 68000 -> PowerPC -> x86 -> ARM. The people claiming Apple will NOT leave x86 use the same arguments as those that stated Apple would not leave PowerPC.

    So forget Slashdot's ad, and look at the reality of this product. It tells you everything about why the ARM tablet rises as the traditional laptop falls. The main boast of the MacBook Air is that it does 'better' than its older models when used as a 'tablet'. What user is so dumb they won't figure that this means they might as well just buy the 250 dollar tablet to watch movies and browse the net- and that tablet will have a damn sight better LCD display than this Apple crap. Having seen the recently discounted 150 quid Nook HD+, the truth does rather stare you in the face!

    1. Re:Big money earning ad for Slashdot by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      However, if you CPU render 3D graphics, encode high quality video, or do anything else continuously mid-to-heavy on the CPU, you'll soon notice Haswell gives no improvement over Intel's last few generations of parts.

      Which is why you're not going to want to buy an ultralight SSD notebook to do this kind of thing.

      Really... that's not the sort of thing you use a laptop for as a dedicated machine (sure, in a pinch) -- if you're into crunching big numbers continuously, you want something that can get the job done well -- this is where traditional tower PCs excel.

      Maybe one day it'll be possible in a handheld device, but that time isn't yet.

    2. Re:Big money earning ad for Slashdot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple and Intel have a giant new way to cheat the benchmarks- super-turbo modes on the CPU. For a brief time, until thermal throttling kicks in, the Haswell can massively increase its clock speed (1.3 GHz becomes 2.6 GHz). When a dishonest review site gives the laptop a good cool-down period between tests, the Haswell can pretty much double its usual performance.

      Nonsense. The real phenomenon you're building your incorrect conclusions from is that Intel's onchip power management permits the chip to exceed its nominal TDP rating and maximum turbo ratio while it's cold. This is not a new feature in Haswell. It's been around since Sandy Bridge. It means that, for example, this specific chip (the i5-4250U) can actually run faster than 2.6 GHz while cold. This lasts maybe 30 seconds to a minute. Once it's warmed up, the processor goes back to its normal turbo limits to stay inside the rated TDP.

      It doesn't have to drop back to 1.3 GHz. The laptop integrator is expected to design a cooling system which can remove TDP watts from the processor indefinitely without allowing temperature to exceed specified limits (usually 105 degC junction temperature for mobile parts). Provided that this is true, actual thermal throttling never happens. (Real thermal throttling in modern Intel CPUs is much harsher than normal operation, where it's basically a PID controller slightly tweaking clocks and voltages to manage power rather than temperature.)

      The i5-4250U's rated minimum 1.3 GHz speed is actually about the GPU. Intel's onchip power control units dynamically alter the allocation of power to the CPU and GPU based on workload. If the GPU's almost idle, the CPU gets more power, if the GPU is as busy as it can be the CPU gets much less. 1.3 GHz CPU speeds only happen when the GPU is at max power. Ivy and Sandy ultrabook CPUs were much the same, except the total TDP budget was a bit bigger (17W instead of 15W) and the GPUs were smaller, therefore the minimum CPU clocks were higher.

      In real CPU-intensive workloads, you can and will see clock speeds higher than 2.0 GHz indefinitely. (So long as the system integrator, Apple in this case, has done their thermal engineering properly.)

      Without this cheat, the new MacBook Air is actually slower than recent older models UNLESS you are using the improved integrated GPU to do calculations.

      The actual truth: the 2013 MBA is barely slower than the 2012 in some benchmarks, and faster in others. This is because in both cases the CPU is operating much faster than its minimum speed, even in extended length benchmarks. Your claim that the CPU really operates at its minimum clock except when cheating benchmarks is completely wrong. And because the Haswell i5 in the 2013 Air has a bigger GPU, the delta between minimum and normal average clocks is actually wider. When you benchmark tasks that can make use of that big GPU, well obviously it's going to be faster, as the GPU has not only gained in power efficiency (flops per watt), it's also being given more power budget than before.

      The Haswell is better at shutting down unused functional blocks, so for light laptop use, its battery life can seem better. If you are a mid to heavy user, there is ZERO improvement in battery life.

      The bolded statement is either made out of ignorance or is a flat out lie.

      http://www.anandtech.com/show/7085/the-2013-macbook-air-review-13inch/6

      The battery life of the 2013 model was 1.47x the 2012 in Anand's light test, 1.67x in the medium test, and 1.55x in the heavy test. In other words, not only was the gain nonzero in medium to heavy workloads, it was better than the gain in light workloads.

      In other words, Intel's Haswell chip is MUCH better at doing NOTHING. It is also much better at doing a lot in VERY short bursts. Both of these 'innovations' are designed to fake apparent improvements against ARM's tech

  11. "mac premium" by SuperBanana · · Score: 3, Informative

    The myth of the "apple tax" or "mac premium" has always been based on pretending that the largest distinguishing feature (the operating system) doesn't exist, or isn't worth anything to people in the market for a new computer. Windows 7 closed the gap a bit, but OS X is still less virus-prone, has better backup integration, doesn't use a registry, and benefits from less platform diversity / hardware+OS from the same vendor.

    It also ignores the fact that for years, whenever PC magazines have tested Macs, they've consistently found them to be amongst the best-performing machines money can buy at time-of-release. Boot Camp changed things dramatically, in the sense that suddenly PC magazines could directly compare them to PC hardware with the same benchmark tools.

    Apple is reaping the benefit of in-house design (instead of "show me what you got that we can slap our label on"), top-notch system architects, and aggressively securing rights with suppliers for major components to get the best stuff before everyone else.

    1. Re:"mac premium" by dfghjk · · Score: 1, Informative

      I suppose if I were only vaguely familiar with the topic I might feel this way too. Trouble is there are facts available.

      The first is that Apple charges for the OS so you don't need to pretend it's value is greater than it is. That OS can be made to run on compelling hardware not offered by Apple. It's a shame that process sucks more than you'd like.

      Second is that Apple uses commodity hardware and has since the switch to Intel. "Amongst the best-performing machines" doesn't really say anything.

      Third is that Apple uses less "in-house" design than at any time in their history. They slap their label on like everyone else, just in a prettier package. Apple controls their hardware better because of the captive OS; their hardware isn't better it's the same.

      Finally, Apple sometimes gets the "best stuff" and occasionally before "everyone else". More often they can't be bothered to get the best stuff ever, like the aging Mac Pro for instance. It becomes even clearer when you recognize that Apple refuses to even offer products that would have significant demand, like a midrange desktop that's not an all-in-one for instance. Apple is about maximizing profit and maintaining prestige, not about offering the best solution.

      The "apple tax" is no myth.

    2. Re:"mac premium" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most users don't care about OS. They start the machine, they run their browser of choice and maybe skype. That's it.

      Those people can by 3 to 4 windows notebooks for the price of this one. Some with far better specs. Sure they'll be a little heavier but to lots of people a $700-$800 difference is a huge difference.

      Checking Best Buy they have 302 laptops for under $400

    3. Re:"mac premium" by SuperBanana · · Score: 1

      Apple charges for upgrades; that is not 'charging for the OS"; OS is not available "for purchase." It can be made to run on hardware not offered by Apple, but to do so is against the license.

      Apple's machines are not built using commodity hardware. They have commodity components like hard drives, memory, and in some cases, graphics cards.

      Apple develops all aspects of their computers in-house.

      "The best solution" has nothing to do with "the apple tax." Yes, they're interested in maximizing profit - so is every company, in case you hadn't noticed, fuckwit. That they don't offer what *you* want doesn't mean that there is an "apple tax."

      The Mac Pro serves a market for creative professionals whose applications are by and large GPU accelerated, and newer GPUs slot into it just fine. That the processors are older Xeons doesn't really matter. However, in case you hadn't noticed, the Mac Pro just got a complete redesign.

      "Facts", indeed.

    4. Re:"mac premium" by Solandri · · Score: 1
      The price premium for Macs is quite real. What people dismissing it fail to take into account is that Macs are rarely discounted. About 10%-15% is the most you'll see, and that'll be a few times a year usually when a model refresh is coming up.

      Dell seems to run 20%-25% discount coupons every other week, and occasionally 30%-40% off when a model is about to be replaced. HP and Lenovo less often, but you can still get them at pretty steep discounts.

      Apple is reaping the benefit of in-house design (instead of "show me what you got that we can slap our label on"), top-notch system architects, and aggressively securing rights with suppliers for major components to get the best stuff before everyone else.

      Apple doesn't make the Macbook/MBA. Quanta does. Quanta also makes most of HP's laptops, and a fair number Dells and Lenovos. You ever wonder why Apple didn't sue HP and Dell for "copycat" notebooks which looked almost identical to a Mac? In all likelihood it was because they were also made by Quanta.

      Almost nobody who sells notebooks actually makes notebooks. They're made by a handful of ODMs you've mostly never heard of. That's the industry's dirty little secret, and why buying a notebook based on brand is mostly futile. The brand will only tell you what your warranty service will be like. To accurately gauge build quality, you need to know which ODM made each particular model. And the ODMs and name brands won't willingly give you that info.

    5. Re:"mac premium" by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      ? you can buy lots of things for less. That doesn't mean they are equivalent.
      If one does a comparison of the specs one may find an ultrabook that comes close to the MBA for around the same price.
      But you won't be finding any $400 dollar netbooks, notebooks, ultrabooks that have the same specs currently.
      In 6 months or 1 year..... you might.... but not right now.

    6. Re:"mac premium" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dude, I have a free clue for you: Apple doesn't use ODMs. They use CMs (contract manufacturers), because Apple likes to design its own computers. For two reasons: they think they can do better, and they want to keep it to themselves by owning the IP so that an ODM can't turn around and sell it to Dell.

      Actually, there's another reason: they like to play CMs off against each other. If they were using the ODM model, the ODM would own the design and Apple wouldn't be able to take that product away from them and give it to another ODM in order to get a better deal (or to improve quality). So long as Apple owns the design, they can do that. And they have been doing this ever since they began manufacturing offshore.

      And yes, I know that Quanta is sometimes a ODM. In their relationship with Apple, they're acting as a CM.

      As for why Apple didn't sue HP or Dell, I'd guess it's because the resemblance is only a resemblance and HP and Dell were a bit more smart about avoiding any design patents, etc.

  12. Statistics and Lies by tuppe666 · · Score: 2

    Losing 7% sales when global PC sales are down 12% is a net market share gain - and they are doing it all at the high end. I'm not sure that's a bad story.

    Windows has its own problems with Windows 8. Saying others are doing worse...does not make Apple better. especially when its tablet sales are also taking a massive 14% drop.

    Ironically the fasting growing point of the PC market is the sub $300 with chromebook...Linux is quietly gaining converts too.

    1. Re:Statistics and Lies by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Naturally Chromebooks are selling well - they are basically giving them away. If there is any profit on them, it is very slim. I certainly don't want Apple in the "giving away stuff" market. They've never been in the under-$800 notebook market, and they've kept their margins up as a result. To get Apple-style margins on a Chromebook, they would have to sell for $450. At that price, no one would buy them.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  13. thank god for chinese workers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    they dont complain, they dont eat much, they dont have more than one kid. they just work 80 hours a week, you can torture them if they leak info, and you dont even have to pay them overtime! what a glorious acheivement of apple.

    1. Re:thank god for chinese workers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What, you mean like every other computer on the planet is built by? And while we're at it, Apple are starting to build Macs in America (the recently announced MacPro will be entirely american built).

  14. Nobody is buying these by tuppe666 · · Score: 0

    The Mac Air has 56% marketshare in the ultraportable segment

    Surface RT has 100% of the hybrid desktop market, GNU/Linux had 100% chosen to install market. Chromebook is the bestselling PC (under $300). Again if according to Apples unaudited data summary sales are down 22%; 2% and 7% even with the opposition being mainly Windows 8, its iPAd is not selling as well either.

  15. Re:Overpriced Apple by Just+Some+Guy · · Score: 1

    Wow, I wish my business strategy were failing as successfully as theirs.

    --
    Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
  16. Except they don't by tuppe666 · · Score: 0

    The Chromebook is not in the same league as an Air .. they perform two different functions. If you don't have an internet connection then the Chromebook is somewhat crippled, whereas the Air is stand alone.

    Chrome OS does not require an internet connection

    1. Re:Except they don't by OzPeter · · Score: 4, Informative

      Chrome OS does not require an internet connection

      I said crippled, not dead. And from the link you supplied Storage:

      One terabyte Google Drive cloud storage for three years1
      32GB solid state drive (64GB on LTE model)2

      Once you have no network connection that 32Gb is really going to get you a long way </sarcasm>. The Airs come with a minimum of 128Gb of flash and you can spec them out from Apple all the way up to 512Gb .. so once again .. they are different beasts with different design considerations.

      --
      I am Slashdot. Are you Slashdot as well?
  17. Good at light browsing and video- WTF? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Have I gone through the looking glass? This crappy Apple product, that costs a whopping $1100 dollars and has a really crappy screen is 'good' because now you can do light Internet browsing and video watching with something approaching the efficiency of a tablet that costs $250 dollars, and has a vastly better screen?

    And note, it is not ME highlighting these two great 'improvements', it is Apple, Intel and their tame review sites.

    Why would anyone with an interest in these two uses not pick up the Nook HD+ for $150 dollars. Yeah, the laptop can do more, BUT Apple and Intel, of their own free will, choose to emphasis the importance of these two uses.

    The fiction of most laptop users needing Intel performance is well and truly over. This new Apple product actually explains to us why tablets using ARM are great.

    And to Apple laptop users, are you really going to boast that your new Hawell based MacBook Air, at EIGHT times the cost, with a vastly worse screen, comes close to the experience of a Nook HD+ when doing the two things that Intel and Apple say that matter, light browsing and watching video?

    1. Re:Good at light browsing and video- WTF? by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 1

      Can I run Office on a Nook HD+?

      Java?

      WoW?

    2. Re:Good at light browsing and video- WTF? by WiiVault · · Score: 1

      I bought a Nook HD+ (9in) 2 weeks ago and it is a great value. For a consumption device it is a hacker's dream at that price. Custom ROMs really make it a great device. But it is not a desktop or notebook PC. And only a fool or a media consumption only user would feel they are equivalent.

    3. Re:Good at light browsing and video- WTF? by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      Hmmmm..... would that be why people would buy a MBA or any other thin notebook... to surf the web and watch video?

      If that were true then may be you are right and people would be better off with a nook.

      But I think that somehow computers offer greater functionality than $250 tablets.
      Many people I know who buy thin computers need greater battery life as they are on the move a lot and need the power of a computer since where-ever they are is in fact their office.

  18. Think differently by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

    Wow, I wish my business strategy were failing as successfully as theirs.

    I have a feeling that Steve cook and you have a different opinion...stockholders already do.

  19. Re:Overpriced Apple by Jerslan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Apple's Strategy has never been Sales Growth (as that's not a sustainable long-term strategy). It has always been to make quality products that customers will pay a premium for. This strategy dug the company out from near bankruptcy and molded it into the industry power-house it is today. They don't need to have more than a 50% Market Share in order to make a ton of money and they don't need their profits to grow every quarter. The fact that they still had a VERY profitable quarter compared to most of their competitors should be evidence enough of that.

  20. looks great by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Looks great. I'm psyched!

  21. History Lesson by tuppe666 · · Score: 0

    Apple's Strategy has never been Sales Growth (as that's not a sustainable long-term strategy). It has always been to make quality products that customers will pay a premium for. This strategy dug the company out from near bankruptcy....

    Steve Jobs disagrees "What ruined Apple was not growth They got very greedy Instead of following the original trajectory of the original vision, which was to make the thing an appliance and get this out there to as many people as possible they went for profits. They made outlandish profits for about four years. What this cost them was their future. What they should have been doing is making rational profits and going for market share.”"

    1. Re:History Lesson by adolf · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but he's dead now so it doesn't matter what he thinks.

    2. Re:History Lesson by Jerslan · · Score: 2

      "Rational Profits" != Exponential Sales Growth over a Sustained Period of Time

      They *have* Market Share right now. They're making *rational profits* right now. Sounds like the strategy is working as planned. Once market share stabilizes the number of sales/quarter should start to drop and eventually stabilize at a reasonable level.

    3. Re:History Lesson by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And yet I bet you often refer to what "The Founding Fathers" wanted even though they have been dead for much much longer. I also can't believe I am having this conversation with "Adolf" That name has been dead since 1945.

  22. I got one - impressed with battery by Wyatt+Earp · · Score: 2

    I got a 13", 1.3GHz, 8GB RAM, 256 GB hard disk.

    Very impressed with the battery life.

    Doing browser and light word processing in Mac Office and Google Docs, I've gone 13 hours and 11 minutes between full charge and needing to recharge or else.

  23. Competition by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

    If nobody was buying, then the sales drop-off would be MUCH steeper.

    The new reality is people are buying less Apple products all around, what is happening is good old fashioned competition, and I for one have missed it. Apple need to step up, with an innovative product...and I don't mean iTV or iWatch or iwearable...I mean old fashioned reinvent the MAC...and I don't mean making it less upgradable or less compatible.

    1. Re: Competition by Jerslan · · Score: 1

      I mean old fashioned reinvent the MAC...

      You mean like that shiny new Mac Pro they announced at WWDC last month? The machine for a niche market that Apple recognizes is an important niche for them to hold on to? There were some complaints about the lack of upgradability (have to my their specialized parts if you want to do it yourself), but Apple is also trying out modular, external upgrades via Thunderbolt. This is actually an old idea getting a refresh with some new technology that might make it more marketable/effective. Apple has been selling a ton of non-self-upgradable laptops & desktops for years... Why would they stop now? Obviously this is something that most average consumers don't care about (hint: they want the things they pay for to "just work").

      You can only re-invent the wheel so many different ways.... They're trying to come out with new and more innovative ideas. Their product suite grows more interconnected/interoperable with every new release. Honestly, they're doing a better job of this than Google or Microsoft at the moment.

  24. The DOJ think differently by tuppe666 · · Score: 0

    Yeah, but he's dead now so it doesn't matter what he thinks.

    DOJ Wins Ebook Antitrust Case: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeremygreenfield/2013/07/10/doj-wins-ebook-antitrust-case-whats-next-will-apple-appeal/ "Judge Denise Cote has ruled against Apple in the closely watched ebook price-fixing antitrust case that played out in lower Manhattan in June. The company has been found guilty by the court of colluding with trade book publishers to raise the prices of ebooks at the detriment to consumers."

  25. Stockholders love margins consumers??? by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

    Naturally Chromebooks are selling well - they are basically giving them away. If there is any profit on them, it is very slim. I certainly don't want Apple in the "giving away stuff" market.

    Why? you a stockholder, I personally want Good value products not companies taking advantage sue to lack of competition. Personally I am tired of the Duopoly and an glad it is being unsettled if very much alive.

    1. Re:Stockholders love margins consumers??? by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Indeed I am a stockholder, so my focus is on them retaining their margins. I only care about marketshare in terms of them keeping developers on their platforms. Marketshare is currently not a problem with any of their products. I believe that the PC market will stabilize eventually and Apple will be in a strong position when that market resumes growth, as they have improved marketshare without taking . They are almost certain to lose marketshare in the tablet market, but that too has plenty of growth opportunity. They've never had anything approaching a monopoly in phones, so there's always been plenty of room there and clearly development has not been an issue.

      I don't think their lack of vertical integration would suit them to the low end - I'm happy to cede that to companies like Samsung. I'm not currently holding Samsung except indirectly through an ETF, but I feel they will always have a bit of trouble at the high end, since that requires a lot of focus and they have a much bigger product spread.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
  26. Ultrabook a failure? by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

    So you agree that you're wrong, then. Good. Clearly if 56% of consumers are buying the Mac Air instead of an Ultrabook, they're selling a lot of them.

    No I think the market segment is a bit of a failure.

    Ultra-hyped ultrabooks ultra-flopped in 2012 http://www.networkworld.com/news/2013/010713-ultrabooks-265469.html
    http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/are-ultrabooks-an-epic-failure/ http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/are-ultrabooks-an-epic-failure/
    A year on, Ultrabooks are a worse disaster than most expected http://semiaccurate.com/2012/10/02/a-year-on-ultrabooks-are-a-worse-disaster-than-most-expected/
    Remember Ultrabooks? Yeah, That Was A Good Time http://techcrunch.com/2012/10/01/remember-ultrabooks-yeah-that-was-a-good-time/

    as I said apples sales are down 22%, 2% and 7%

  27. Re:Overpriced Apple by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

    I got the 2012 Air when it was released. Since then, my parents each bought one, plus an iMac.

    >

    http://images.apple.com/pr/pdf/q1fy13datasum.pdf
    http://images.apple.com/pr/pdf/q2fy13datasum2.pdf
    http://images.apple.com/pr/pdf/q3fy13datasum.pdf

    Your house is not the whole world....apples business strategy is failing...however successful it is around your house. The fact that its computers are seeing a drop in sales 22%; 2% and 7% shows it needs a new one.

    I think you missed a word. Its computers are seeing a drop in sales growth -- when the growth curve is less than the one for inflation, then I'll start wondering about their long-term profitability.

    It's easy to have enormous sales growth year-over-year when you don't have any sales to begin with. The fact that such a mammoth company is still growing their sales never ceases to amaze me. What new markets are they (and all the other device sellers) milking for this continued growth? Or is this just creative accounting?

  28. Missing a Word Unit. by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

    I think you missed a word. Its computers are seeing a drop in sales growth

    Those are unit percentages. Its the opposite of growth. The word is decline.

  29. Wow :) by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

    Indeed I am a stockholder, so my focus is on them retaining their margins.

    The you must be disappointed as those have shrunk too. Although hilariously perhaps your opinion is less important considering apples market share has crashed 38%. Perhaps shafting their customers is not working.

    1. Re:Wow :) by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      The stock was up on the "bad" news today, so I'm quite happy. The margins were expected to shrink - they were artificially high because Apple had signed a bunch of long-term deals with suppliers during the recession, when prices and demand were at a bottom. I think that their relative performance in the pitiful PC market is encouraging, and they continue to see 20% yearly growth in phones. The flat tablet sales are not great news, but you can't expect them to keep 70% marketshare in the tablet market when they have such an expensive product. I suspect it will shrink down to a 30-something marketshare over time.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    2. Re:Wow :) by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      You are right Mighty....

      Tablets may even shrink to 20%. Smart phones may shrink to 20%. PC's may grow to 20%.
      Apple offers only higher end products, so I would never expect them to have the greatest percentage of the market.
      Only if they come up with some other innovation will they get to 70+% of the market for a while...but then others will commoditize it and Apples share of the market will drop.

      When bad news is equal to more than 6 billion in profits though, that is a good sign for any industry. Market share is meaningful, but not the entire story really.

    3. Re:Wow :) by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Exactly, as a stockholder I only care about marketshare when it starts to drop to a point that become a problem maintaining the ecosystem. The margins are my main concern. If I ever look at marketshare, I want to see "profitshare".

      Now that article that I linked disagrees with me. It argues that Apple might eventually lose the smartphone battle as cheap phones become "good enough". I'd argue two things: (a) Apple can still participate in the market with a high-margin cheaper phone. (b) Apple can abandon the market if it becomes unprofitable. They weren't a smart phone maker 7 years ago. They didn't make a (modern) tablet until 3 years ago. They weren't an MP3 maker for a very long time. I believe they are agile enough to use new technology to expand into new markets as the opportunity arises. If they were a one-trick pony I wouldn't be a stockholder. They are now a 3-trick pony :)

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    4. Re:Wow :) by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      The thing is that once smartphones become a $20 buck commodity there will be some new whiz-bang item that everyone finds they "need".
      The next paradigm will be where it is all at once smartphones play themselves out..... which could be in the next 4-6 years. Some argue even sooner.

      But what will be the next big ticket item which will bleed peoples wallets?
      Likely, Apple won't create whatever it is, but they certainly seem to have a track record of coming late to a market and making a product that will move people to separate cash from their wallets. I don't see this changing anytime soon. Apple is great at re-designing products. They seem fairly adept at evolving products into something better than is currently out there.

      My PJBox is still better sounding than any iPod and very functional for me at least, but there were hundreds of other products on the market by the time Apple came up with the iPod and yet the iPod quickly became the dominant mp3 player.... but not just that... the iPod led to other ways of doing things that have changed how everyone thinks of media in general. The iPod changed the entire utilization of music and other media.

      I think this is useful even if you don't own or care for apple products.

      I think apple will always have a presence in the Smartphone market as they do in basically every market they have participated in. It won't be as large as it is perhaps as the market becomes commoditized, but they still will focus on pushing the barriers of the higher end range of the market. As you point out, as long as the ecosystem is still functioning, Apple will not diminish in the market beyond a certain threshhold.

      I'm happy to see Apple still working hard on the computer segment of their business. New MBA's, iMacs, MacPro's are all signs of a company still engaged in the market. I don't see this changing anytime soon either.

    5. Re:Wow :) by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      This is why the Mac ain't going anywhere. Apple pulls in more profit on their pitiful 5 million PCs than HP, Lenovo, Dell, Acer and Asus make on their combined 53 million PCs. 5% marketshare, 45% of the profits... that's why I'm a stockholder :)

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    6. Re:Wow :) by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      That is impressive. I didn't know that.
      That does argue for a sizeable markup on Apple products however.
      And yet I think the price premium is largely a bit overblown.

    7. Re:Wow :) by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      The secret is that Dell and company make high margins on their expensive stuff as well, but they sell so.. much.. low end stuff that the high end gets almost lost in the noise. It wouldn't surprise me if they lost money on the low end, just to be a "total solution". You never hear people bitch that they can't find an affordable Dell!

      Personally I feel that advantage is over-rated. If you offer what amounts to a subsidized price on something, people are going to take advantage of that to the detriment of your higher-margin products. I used to own Dell, but sold when I came to this conclusion. I was initially a bit perturbed when Apple announced the iPad Mini, but I was pleased with the price point. If they can maintain margins like that, then I don't really care about pilfering sales from the larger iPad. Myself? I own a subsidized Kindle :)

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    8. Re:Wow :) by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      It is nice to have the 2 sizes of tablets. It is nice to have consistently high quality for both.
      It is something I have come to appreciate as I get older. I don't like things breaking easily.
      A friends nook died after it slid onto the floor when she lost her grip once. Kind of pricey for a single mistake.
      My kids have dropped the iPad numerous times and there are barely any marks. I hope they get a bit less fumble fingered.

      To me it is worth a bit of a premium for such things.

      I bought a $300 Dell to make a Hackintosh for the kids, but it quickly became so underpowered that it doesn't really make sense to do such a thing any longer. Nice project, but cheaper and underpowered is not very worthwhile. I will be replacing it with a used MBA from eBay. The prices on the older ones will plummet now that the newest ones are out., but old MBA's are still more usable for my kids than the cheapie Dell Hackintosh.

    9. Re:Wow :) by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      In my defense, I probably would have considered the iPad if it was available when I bought the Kindle. Also, while not quite up to Apple snuff, the Kindle is a pretty nice machine. It certainly seems more sturdy than the Nexus 7 that my friend has.

      I prefer Macs, but always have a PC around as well. I learned a long time ago not to skimp on components :) I'm waiting for my ancient G5 Pro Tower (kids computer) to die so I can replace it with a Mini... it'll probably pay for itself just with electricity!

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    10. Re:Wow :) by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      I prefer low electricity systems myself. Started using small Shuttle boxes to build my systems back in the day because of that. Today there are much smaller energy use systems.

      I always run a PC VM on my mac simply because I don't like having a big box anymore. Works well for my old legacy software.
      Even run XP more than 7 still. What I dino I am.

      I have heard good things about the Kindles.

  30. Unloved Thunderbolt by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

    Honestly, they're doing a better job of this than Google....

    The inclusion of thunderbolt is a disadvantage of the Apple PC's USB3 continues to steal Thunderbolt’s thunder. Its why Apple doesn't work with all kinds of peripherals...and has none built in. The Average customer never bought Apple...and those that do buy it less.

    Google has growing market-share with its chromebooks. Apple could have gone for Microsoft throat, but contine to think ripping of its customers is best for its profits.

    1. Re:Unloved Thunderbolt by greg1104 · · Score: 1

      It's hilarious how Apple finally dropped Firewire only to adopt Thunderbolt, which might as well be called Firewire 2011. I really like Thunderbolt as a cost no object design, but what the market has proven every single time is that an I/O chipset has to be cheap and easy to license to succeed. USB 3.0 made Thunderbolt obviously obsolete before the first Apple model supporting it shipped.

      Can you believe someone thinks this is about "modular, external upgrades"? Replacing on-board Ethernet with the Thunderbolt to Gigabit Ethernet Adapter is one of the most transparent margin increasing cash grabs I've ever seen.

    2. Re:Unloved Thunderbolt by martinX · · Score: 1

      They are not incompatible alternatives that can't exist together. My iMac has an SDXC card slot, four USB 3 ports, two Thunderbolt ports (one's connected to another monitor) and a Gigabit Ethernet port.

      The MacBook Pro I just bought (refurb) has a Gigabit Ethernet port, FireWire 800 port (up to 800 Mbps), two USB 3 ports, 1 Thunderbolt port and an SDXC card slot.

      --
      When they came for the communists, I said "He's next door. Take him away. Goddam commies."
    3. Re:Unloved Thunderbolt by uglyduckling · · Score: 1

      Thunderbolt has made internal upgrades unnecessary (or at worst work-roundable). In the sector Apple is targeting, high-end video including broadcast, mobile and studio audio recording, etc., there's a lot of kit that couldn't possibly be connected via USB or even FireWire. Thunderbolt effectively separates the high-end third party hardware from the host machine, which means that in the future artists and producers can walk into a studio with their own machine and software workflow and plug in via Thunderbolt to record and mix. This has the potential to be a major step forward.

    4. Re:Unloved Thunderbolt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, it really has nothing to do with making a thin machine while removing huge ports rarely used.

    5. Re:Unloved Thunderbolt by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      I concur ugly.
      I think people don't really understand that Thunderbolt is useful as was Firewire. Thunderbolt is a great replacement for Firewire.
      People who don't work in media may not need it, but firewire was needed in the A/V business.

      Key word being business.
      The large bulk of peripherals for Thunderbolt are for professionals and businesses who can write this stuff off.

      USB 3.0 is nice too, but Thunderbolt is versatile for professionals.

    6. Re:Unloved Thunderbolt by greg1104 · · Score: 1

      USB is expected to match current Thunderbolt speeds later this year. Sluggishness updating the USB standard meant Apple got a short period where Thunderbolt was so much faster than anything else around that it enabled some new applications. But currently available 5Gbps USB 3.0 has already closed the important part of that gap, eliminating most of the "couldn't possibly be connected on USB" gap. High resolution outboard video is the only thing really left in that category.

      The chunk of the market that needs 4K video processing will still need Thunderbolt speeds, but not other application does. I can't imagine any music software that needs more than 5Gbps, which means the idea of artists and producers walking into a studio can easily happen on USB3 instead. When Apple introduced Thunderbolt, musicians had outgrown USB2, but they're unlikely to ever outgrow USB3. Why would manufacturers of music hardware build anything on Thunderbolt when they can make a cheaper product based on USB3 and sell it into Mac and PC markets?

    7. Re:Unloved Thunderbolt by uglyduckling · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure USB has the robustness to work for some professional applications. Look at the mess that USB-RS232 adaptors are - many engineers keep old laptops around just for their proper serial ports. PCIe over Thunderbolt seems to work perfectly. Only time will tell I guess.

  31. Not buying an air again. by csumpi · · Score: 2, Informative

    Have a previous generation 11", and not buying another air. Reasons:

    - heavy. It looks like it should be light, but it's just as heavy as my 15" vaio.
    - no backlit keys. This is pretty much a show stopper. No keyboard should not have backlit keys.
    - only two USB ports
    - no HDMI out without external adapter
    - need an external converter for ethernet
    - aluminum is a terrible material for the case. Dings, scratches and cuts.
    - low screen resolution
    - proprietary SSD
    - no way to move remap control key under windows

    1. Re:Not buying an air again. by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 3, Informative

      Sounds like you need a 13". Thunderbolt, and an SD Card make the USB ports go pretty far. Battery life is amazing.

      Backlit keyboard is now standard.

      I find myself doing more wirelessly, between AppleTV and wifi-attached NAS devices. I had gripes with my 2010 Air, but this is a whole new ball game.

    2. Re:Not buying an air again. by j-beda · · Score: 1

      Have a previous generation 11", and not buying another air. Reasons: ...
      - no backlit keys. This is pretty much a show stopper. No keyboard should not have backlit keys.

      While the other issues may be accurate in your opinion, the MBA does have a backlit keyboard for the current and previous generation at least. Are you sure it is not turned off?

      here is a link to instructions :

      https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4001668?start=0&tstart=0

    3. Re:Not buying an air again. by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      I just purchased a 13-inch, Mid 2012 MBP (non-retina) for the upgradeability. I needed a new one ASAP, and I'm of the understanding that this is the last model of this form-factor that will ever be released. 2.9Ghz i7, 8GB RAM (unofficially upgradeable to 16), and a SATA3 bus that accepts standard 2.5 SSD drives. Oh, and the battery can be replaced (not glued in). Basically, a good laptop that's as user-serviceable as it gets for the next 5+ years and beyond. It's a damn shame that Apple didn't offer this same form-factor in retina display; I would have bought one if they had.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    4. Re:Not buying an air again. by Tarmas · · Score: 1

      I really hope they keep the non-Retina MacBook Pro in their line-up and upgrade it to Haswell. There's a chance, because from what I've read, they're pretty popular in the education market. Right now, apart from the Mac mini, it's the only user-serviceable computer in Apple's line-up, with easy RAM and disk upgrades. And yes, some of us actually need that Ethernet port and a DVD-ROM drive!

      --
      Signature has left the building.
    5. Re:Not buying an air again. by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      Well, I needed a new laptop ASAP. I was trying to hold out with a wait-and-see approach after the last Apple release announcements. If it's going to happen, a non-Retina Haswell MBP won't be released until mid to late fall. So far, rumor has it that Haswell will be Retina only with an ultimate goal of making everything Air.

      After seeing the last teardowns of the newer units and Mac Pro, Apple sure is hellbent making these units non-upgradeable as possible. Actually, it's a savings in manufacturing and the high turnover in user life of these units that's the driving factor here. It's like cellphones. You don't repair them (not supposed to anyways), you replace them! That's where the industry is headed with computers more or less.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    6. Re:Not buying an air again. by csumpi · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the link and the info. But no, mine doesn't have backlit keys.

  32. I have one by paxprobellum · · Score: 1

    I have one and it rules.

  33. So basically... by viperidaenz · · Score: 1

    It's not even at the hardware level of a Haswell 'Ultrabook'.

  34. Problems, problems... by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

    Trouble is there are facts available.

    What a shame you chose not to avail yourself of them!

    The first is that Apple charges for the OS so you don't need to pretend it's value is greater than it is.

    Not for new systems, and for upgrades it's usually around $20. You are totally missing the point of word "value" of course, you took it literally but the original poster was referring to usability over other systems, and of course things like AV software not being a mandatory full-time process.

    Second is that Apple uses commodity hardware and has since the switch to Intel...Third is that Apple uses less "in-house" design than at any time in their history.

    Here's where you really left the fact train and wandered off into the wilderness. It seems that at first jump to Intel that they used mostly commodity hardware, but over time that has been *less* the case. Stuff like very custom fans, power supplies, batteries, motherboard, keyboards, storage chips in place of SSD... etc. etc. Why on earth do you think Apple has *less* custom stuff now than before?

    Apple refuses to even offer products that would have significant demand, like a midrange desktop that's not an all-in-one for instance.

    And yet Apple's computer market share is holding steady while the market share of all those offering such systems is in decline. HMM...

    More often they can't be bothered to get the best stuff ever, like the aging Mac Pro for instance.

    And here your argument plummets to the earth in a giant fireball of nonsense, oh the humanity!

    You say that Apple hardly does any custom PC stuff anymore. You say Apple doesn't really get the best stuff much. Well then, we have the Mac Pro to laugh at you with a fully custom design, many custom components and very high end memory chips, buses, IO ports and so on. I mean, come on!

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Problems, problems... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You say Apple doesn't really get the best stuff much. Well then, we have the Mac Pro to laugh at you with a fully custom design, many custom components and very high end memory chips, buses, IO ports and so on. I mean, come on!

      And you say you're not a cultist Apple fanboi, when you associate Apple with 'we'.

    2. Re:Problems, problems... by Khyber · · Score: 1

      "Well then, we have the Mac Pro to laugh at you with a fully custom design,"

      No, they essentially took the Bysen LED vertical LED unit's design and slapped motherboards instead of LED panels on the central heatsink, and slapped a different cover on it. They did nothing new at fucking all in that area.

      Everything else is commodity Foxconn-produced stuff.

      "many custom components"

      All of which are available from Foxconn, because Apple didn't design it, Foxconn did.

      "very high end memory chips"

      Yea if you waste the money for "Apple Certified" 1866MHz ECC DDR3, which is usually the same Hynix crap just on a better board.

      "buses, IO ports and so on."

      That everybody else has as well, for the most part, under varying licensed names, because Apple made NONE of that.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    3. Re:Problems, problems... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Stuff like very custom fans, power supplies, batteries, motherboard, keyboards, storage chips in place of SSD... etc. etc. Why on earth do you think Apple has *less* custom stuff now than before?

      All but the cheapest re-badged crap does too. My NEC LaVie has a custom power supply, custom battery, custom fans, SSD chips solder to the mobo, custom mobo, custom keyboard... Have you ever taken a laptop apart? I used to and most of the stuff in them is bespoke per manufacturer.

      Having said that Apple uses the same 3rd parties as everyone else. The same NAND flash, the same Intel CPUs, the same LG/Samsung LCDs, the same Synaptic touchpads... Customized of course, but nothing out of the ordinary.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    4. Re:Problems, problems... by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

      You should have taken basic English in class. You teachers might have taught you the concept of the "Royal We".

    5. Re:Problems, problems... by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

      And here is a perfect example of an iHater. Frothing at the mouth even.

    6. Re:Problems, problems... by the_B0fh · · Score: 1

      You really think Apple spent $250 million for that Israeli NAND design company for *NOTHING*? Holy shit.

      You really think simply slapping parts together will get you a well designed machine? Holy fucking shit.

    7. Re:Problems, problems... by Khyber · · Score: 2

      Actually, this is the word of a former Apple employee with direct ties to their manufacturing lines which still exist today and still produce Apple hardware.

      Try again when you even know the person you're talking about.

      Above me is the perfect example of an idiot that got hit by the Reality Distortion Field. Also the perfect example of an idiot (claiming BOFH status in their name, no less) that obviously doesn't work on the manufacturing end of things.

      Come back when you have Intel and AMD knocking on your door for your LED cooling solutions, which they want retrofitted for their products.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    8. Re:Problems, problems... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you ever taken a laptop apart? I used to and most of the stuff in them is bespoke per manufacturer.

      So... you spent all that time taking them apart and somehow never noticed that a large percentage of PC laptops share common components and chassis design? Thanks to the fact that lots of the brands don't have the resources to actually have whole laptop designs done "bespoke". They just order up the off-the-shelf junk and ask for a slightly different looking exterior shell.

      Having said that Apple uses the same 3rd parties as everyone else. The same NAND flash, the same Intel CPUs, the same LG/Samsung LCDs, the same Synaptic touchpads... Customized of course, but nothing out of the ordinary.

      True (because NAND is a commodity), partially true, false, false.

      CPUs: Apple often gets customized CPU variants from Intel, partially because they're a big customer and partially because Intel likes working with them. You see, Intel has tried to push PC OEMs to innovate for years (hoping to reap the rewards in improved CPU sales), but PC OEMs tend to be very conservative since they generally compete with each other mainly on price. So Intel loves a major player like Apple which simply isn't running in the "race to the bottom".

      The latest example of this close relationship is the Haswell MacBook Air this very article is talking about. Although anyone can order the CPUs Apple's using, it's pretty clear they exist mainly because Apple asked for them to exist, as there have been next to no announcements of PC ultrabooks using them. What's special about them is that they have HD 5000 GPUs instead of the HD 4400 found in most Haswell Ultrabook CPUs. HD 5000 is twice the size of HD 4400, but much less than twice as fast in Ultrabooks thanks to the 15W power limit. Apple's willing to pay significantly more per chip and even take a CPU clock speed hit to get slightly more GPU performance, PC OEMs aren't.

      Displays: Apple may source LCDs from the same suppliers, but they're different displays usually custom designed for Apple, sold to nobody but Apple. Apple is a stickler for things which the PC market generally doesn't go for. In particular, Apple loves the 16:10 aspect ratio and uses it exclusively. 16:10 is extremely rare in PC laptops, even in high priced ones; it's almost all 16:9 (if widescreen).

      Synaptic touchpads: you're like a decade or more out of date. Apple hasn't been using Synaptics for a very, very long time. At some point (well before the first Intel Mac IIRC) they apparently decided Synaptics wasn't good enough and hired an in-house touch input engineering team. Ever since, Apple's touch input systems have been 100% proprietary.

    9. Re:Problems, problems... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You really think Apple spent $250 million for that Israeli NAND design company for *NOTHING*? Holy shit.

      FYI, that wasn't a NAND design company. It was a NAND controller design company.

      Apple's unlikely to get into custom NAND memory for the forseeable future. NAND suppliers operate their own NAND fabs and produce nothing but their own NAND flash designs, in extremely high volume. They don't offer services where you can tell them "here's our custom NAND design, go fab it for us" -- it doesn't fit with their business model at all.

      On the other hand, Apple does have great reasons for integrating a high performance custom NAND controller into future versions of their iPhone / iPad SoCs. That's why they bought Anobit.

    10. Re:Problems, problems... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Well then, we have the Mac Pro to laugh at you with a fully custom design,"

      No, they essentially took the Bysen LED vertical LED unit's design and slapped motherboards instead of LED panels on the central heatsink, and slapped a different cover on it. They did nothing new at fucking all in that area.

      Oh look, it's Khyber, the LED-obsessed ignoramus who doesn't even know jack shit about LEDs! No, Khyber, Apple did not copy a fucking LED growlamp to design a high performance workstation computer. You are way out there. Looney tunes territory.

      Everything else is commodity Foxconn-produced stuff.

      "many custom components"

      All of which are available from Foxconn, because Apple didn't design it, Foxconn did.

      Bullshit, stop lying. Apple designs it, then farms out the manufacturing. Not exclusively to Foxconn either, and they're also toying with manufacturing things themselves again.

      Actually, this is the word of a former Apple employee with direct ties to their manufacturing lines which still exist today and still produce Apple hardware.

      Uh huh. Sure you are.

      Come back when you have Intel and AMD knocking on your door for your LED cooling solutions, which they want retrofitted for their products.

      Based on your posting I'm sure you actually believe this is true. The voices in your head aren't real, Khyber. Get help.

  35. Lying by omission by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    http://images.apple.com/pr/pdf/q3fy13datasum.pdf

    I notice you are too cowardly to point out sales number for ANY other PC maker over the same quarters by comparison...

    There is apparently no Apple victory you cannot spin into a tale of woe! But long ago everyone learned of your lies, so why do you still bother? You play to an empty house my friend, and are obviously starting to bore even yourself.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  36. no, convenience premium by SuperBanana · · Score: 1

    "So... you can buy twice the amount of ram at -retail- for 30% less than Apple will charge you just to upgrade. THAT is the 'mac premium'."

    Odd then, that Dell, Lenovo, and HP all charge this "mac premium" on their computers.

    Seriously, you do realize *all* vendors do this, right? They're taking advantage of people who a)don't know they can get it cheaper elsewhere, or don't want to be bothered with the hassle of ordering, don't know how to install the component, or don't have the time b)don't want to be hassled with fingerpointing when something breaks c)are financing the purchase and thus want it all rolled into one d)are purchasing for non-personal use and are limited in terms of suppliers and whatnot.

    1. Re:no, convenience premium by vux984 · · Score: 1

      Seriously, you do realize *all* vendors do this, right?

      Generally not to quite the same blatant extent. Especially as other vendors typically have a much wider selection of pre-configured options to choose from with various bundles of upgrades added at reasonable prices.

      Yes it costs more to go 'a la carte' with customization, but I don't usually need to. Apple doesn't offer much choice. There are all of 2 MacBook airs at 13", and both of them are specc'd identically except for the SSD.

      If was on the Dell site, there'd probably be like 8 to choose from in each of 3 product lines. Not that Dell's overabundance of options is necessarily better, but odds are a lot better you can get a per-configured option that meets your needs. Dell also has a variety of sales and promotions, so there are deals to be had if you watch.

  37. Google is your friend by tuppe666 · · Score: 1

    I notice you are too cowardly to point out sales number for ANY other PC maker over the same quarters by comparison...

    Perhaps you should google it, and use it reinforce your point. Personally I'm made up with Googles 70Million tablet activations. For PC shipments International Data Corporation and Gartner, both industry analyst firms have figures out. http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/10/lenovo-is-top-supplier-as-global-pc-sales-fall/?_r=0 "Apple’s Mac computers were third, with 1.8 million units sold, a drop of 0.5 percent. Lenovo had a sales increase of 19.6 percent, to 1.5 million units, I.D.C. said. The Gartner numbers were roughly similar, though Gartner recorded a sharper sales drop for Apple."

  38. Macs don't need to "hold" multiple drives by SuperBanana · · Score: 2

    Don't forget their cheapest desktop that can hold two hard drives and an optical drive is the Mac Pro.

    The operative word being "holds". With USB and Thunderbolt, there is *zero* reason to have more than one hard drive slot inside a Mac.

    The next Mac Pro doesn't have *any* internal drive bays. None of the creative pros, whom the machines are targeted at, are complaining. They're happily going to connect multi-terabyte RAID arrays to it via any of its six thunderbolt 2 ports, each of which offers more bandwidth than a multilane 6Gbps SAS port.

    1. Re:Macs don't need to "hold" multiple drives by uglyduckling · · Score: 2

      Yep, and the creative pros will love it. I've done a bit of work in design and photography offices, and practically all of the Mac Pro towers I've seen have empty drive bays except for the stock boot drive and DVD RW. And the desk and floor is littered with FireWire and USB external drives, audio interfaces, etc.. People want to be able to plug in a new drive without rebooting their machine, and want to be able to take work home on their laptop.

    2. Re:Macs don't need to "hold" multiple drives by danbob999 · · Score: 1

      And this is an other premium. External thunderbolt arrays are very expensive. So is Apple's thunderbolt cable.
      It's also very ugly and requires external power. The whole point of a desktop is that you can fit all your devices inside that box.

    3. Re:Macs don't need to "hold" multiple drives by MachineShedFred · · Score: 1

      And the higher end houses will get a Thunderbolt fiber channel HBA and still have connectivity to exabytes of SAN disk on their "ultrabook" laptop.

      Let's see the MacBook Air competition do that as well.

      --
      Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
    4. Re:Macs don't need to "hold" multiple drives by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      ?? Apple Premium??

      People that need arrays are not usually the casual user.
      Casual users look for a cheap computer to fit their needs at best buy or something. A single drive in the machine is what they need maybe with some sort of external backup if they value their files.

      People who buy arrays of fast hard drives and expensive machines are usually using them for their business and can write them off as an expense.

      I have a bunch of NAS arrays and external drives.... yes I suppose they are premium items, but I need them for work and they are not even apple products.

      BTW... not all Thunderbolt drives do require external power.

    5. Re:Macs don't need to "hold" multiple drives by danbob999 · · Score: 1

      A lot of people want to have a SSD, a HDD and an optical drive in their PC.
      A lot of people would also benefit having two drives in RAID1 to avoid data loss. In a regular PC, it's very cheap to do. Just buy two 2TB hard drives and you are set.
      On a Mac, you need a Mac Pro, or an expensive external RAID enclosure, which will be expensive no matter if it's thunderbolt, USB or ethernet.
      You probably can have a 2.5" external hard drive powered using thunderbolt. But I am pretty sure that big 2-4 3.5" drives enclosure requires external power. It just makes your desk even messier.
      Unless you want to take it with you all the time, without carrying your PC, it should be internal. It's cheaper, cleaner, and often faster.

    6. Re:Macs don't need to "hold" multiple drives by danbob999 · · Score: 1

      All 3 MBA users with this expensive adapter would agree with you.

    7. Re:Macs don't need to "hold" multiple drives by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      I have both and SSD and and HDD in my computer, but I don't really need more than that in the computer itself these days. I used to build server systems with up to 8 drives and stacks of optical drives, but they were loud and power hungry. I just don't do this sort of thing anymore. I like things spread around a bit these days.

      Why is Raid 1 expensive? Certainly throwing an additional drive to mirror your internal drive is useful if you have the space, but it isn't really paramount to have an extra internal drive.
      One can do a RAID 1 -alike approach by simply having a single inexpensive external drive that you make into an exact bootable copy of your internal drive.
      This works well for those with laptops or even some small PC's or AIW's. It doesn't really seem to make things excessively messy for most people.

      I have a couple of 4 Drive RAID Arrays which work well for my work.
      But I also have a single USB3 drive that I have as a bootable mirror of my main system so I don't lose down time.
      Not much more cost than sticking a drive inside your box. And I can throw it into a drawer between backups. That way I am not sucking down power unless I want to.

      If you have a 2.5" drive you don't need external power. I have even seen external 3-4 drive 2.5" arrays that didn't require external power I believe. I don't own one of those since I need more space. You are right... for anything with 3.5" drives there needs to be a power cable.

      None of my RAID arrays makes my desktop messier since they are NAS devices and are not placed near my desktop. Even if they were thunderbolt arrays I would not set them on my desktop, but in a cabinet a bit away from my machine. My desktop simply has my AIW, a bluetooth keyboard and a bluetooth mouse. And yet I have lots of external devices that make my system more powerful.

      Even so, I guess I wouldn't think of a stack of drives in an enclosure stacked under my desktop any worse than having the usual PC box stacked under my desktop.

      "Unless you want to take it with you all the time, without carrying your PC, it should be internal. It's cheaper, cleaner, and often faster."
      I need to take drives with me all the time. I need lightweight and portable, but I am not really the casual user.

      Internal can certainly be a bit cheaper, but external USB 3 are not expensive. I don't think of having a big box as cleaner.
      Having a nice big monitor, a MBA, and a single drive is cleaner looking than a typical PC box scenario in my view. It certainly occupies less space overall.

      I don't think eSATA is much faster than USB 3 if at all and certainly it is not faster than Thunderbolt. That is the beauty of the new interfaces. They are as fast as having internal drives for the most part, but you can take your drive with you to use on multiple machines. You can even take your bootable drive with you and run your own system on another computer by booting off of the external.

      And once more, I am not the casual user.
      Most of the casual users I know have a rather simple setup of a single box, monitor, mouse, keyboard and speakers. Some have a USB external drive they store their most prized photos on and throw in a drawer for backup. The great thing about the USB3 or Thunderbolt paradigm is one no longer has to be locked into having to throw everything into one big box as the only way to get practical expansion. Now expansion can be done outside the box. This makes for greater flexibility in my view.

    8. Re:Macs don't need to "hold" multiple drives by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because Thunderbolt absolutely doesn't exist on anything but the MacBook Air.

      Are you retarded?

    9. Re:Macs don't need to "hold" multiple drives by danbob999 · · Score: 1

      One can do a RAID 1 -alike approach by simply having a single inexpensive external drive that you make into an exact bootable copy of your internal drive.
      This works well for those with laptops or even some small PC's or AIW's. It doesn't really seem to make things excessively messy for most people.

      This completely misses the whole point of RAID 1, which is to always have two copies of your files, even the most recent ones. Why risk a hard drive failure when you can add a second hard drive for $75?
      Having to manually do backups suck. Most people end up not doing it, or not very often, especially if it's on a removable/external storage because it's not always available.
      Of course having RAID1+backups is better. But if I had to choose between backups on external hard drives done once a month or RAID1, I'd go with the later.

      But I also have a single USB3 drive that I have as a bootable mirror of my main system so I don't lose down time.

      Sounds like you would be better with real RAID1. How many wires do you connect to your laptop?
      Of course most laptops can't hold two hard drives, so if you need a laptop this is a no-go.
      But it's often much cheaper to buy a powerful desktop with SSD, two hard drives, optical drive and a cheap laptop for occasionnal travelling than buying a single not so powerful laptop with a thunderbolt port and external raid array.
      If you are going to have a box sitting next to your monitor (or under your desk) to hold hard drives, it better hold a full PC at the same time. It will be much more expendable.
      The worse scenario is having an iMac and an external thunderbolt 2-4 HDD array. There you instantly sees the Mac premium.

      I have even seen external 3-4 drive 2.5" arrays that didn't require external power I believe

      And unless you need speed and are putting SSDs inside, they all suck. 2.5" hard drives are too expensive for their capacity and are slower. They can be usefull for a small USB hard drive without external power that you carry with you and can plug on any PC. But they suck for 3-4 drives RAID enclosures.

    10. Re:Macs don't need to "hold" multiple drives by Wild_dog! · · Score: 1

      "This completely misses the whole point of RAID 1, which is to always have two copies of your files, even the most recent ones."

      You can do Raid 1 with external drives it doesn't require internal drives. But RAID is not real backup anyhow. I would never simply use RAID 1 and assume my files were safe. Everyone should have their files backed up minimally 2 ways.

      The reason I don't use RAID 1 on my main system or laptop is that such a thing is not really necessary in my case. My important working files are not stored on my main system or laptop drive but on a network with NAS devices. I do have some files I want to keep handy on the system drive and I never want to have downtime which is one reason I do have a bootable USB 3 drive as a backup mirror with incremental backups setup. If my system fails, I just boot with my external so I can keep working by simply rebooting my system. All changes to the drive are backed up nightly. And changes to the drive are backed up to Crashplan. Archived files are stored on optical media in a firebox. The bootable mirrored drive solution works well for me although I have not been forced to do it yet.

      The only other tier of redundancy I think could be needed is a complete Time Machine backup drive so that I can maintain older versions of files I have modified and saved so I can retrieve older versions if needed. Thus far, I have not needed to do this so I have not proceeded with this idea yet.

      Also it is important to remember no RAID level is a backup solution. Files can get corrupted before one realizes, drives can get damaged, other hardware on your RAID can render it unreadable, the OS managing a RAID device can get corrupted. There are lots of things that can finish off your data when you have a live powered RAID system. Sometimes sticking your most important stuff on backup BluRays in a firebox is even better than a live RAID device. I have lost photos on my RAID devices in the past, but with periodic optical backups I have been able to go back and retrieve lost versions of those files.

      "Having to manually do backups suck."

      Not much in the backup process for bootable mirroring is manual unless one feels one wants to make it that way. One can usually setup automatic backup mirroring that is incremental. This way one always have a mirrored backup.....not once a month but daily and not manual but automated. It is simply how you want to setup things in your software. Not a pain at all. Burning to optical media is always a labor intensive manual process though.

      "Sounds like you would be better with real RAID1. How many wires do you connect to your laptop?"

      I don't need RAID 1 for my system or my laptop.
      I have working files stored offsite and on RAID 5 NAS's and I have important archives in a drive in a firebox and I swap it out periodically with another drive I do incremental archival updates on.

      I don't usually use my laptop except when travelling and sometimes I plug a couple things into it as needed.
      My main system has 2 drives plugged in currently. My mirrored backup drive and the old mirror of the system I ran 6 months ago. I am still migrating some things as I find I need them. And I keep my phone USB plugged in to charge my phone. Everything else is wireless. So 3 wires plug into the back of my AIW main system + power + ethernet. Sometimes I plug in a BD burner as needed.The only wire I can actually see is my phone charger cable since I plug it in alot.

      My systems are more like working terminal machines and not a storage devices. Other than the OS, programs and some personal files, all storage is external.

      For the laptop I occasionally use a couple of 2.5" external drives mirrored and rubber banded together for offloading photos from shoots. (Can't be too careful when a graduation or wedding shoot are at stake.) I can plug in the card reader and the mirrored drives and pipe the photos directly to the drives when I need to offload my cards. I have 2 memory cards mirrored in each camera and once cards are fu

  39. Portability improvement by Peganthyrus · · Score: 1

    > The 54Wh battery looks it improves the portability a bit.

    A bit? A lot. I went from a late 2010 13" Air to a 2013 13" Air, and it's amazing. I basically don't worry about battery life any more. At all. Charges in an hour or so, goes all damn day. I don't know what the performance is like for heavy 3D games, but I can take it out to the park and sit in the shade on a bright sunny day, with the display fighting a lot of ambient light for a couple of hours of drawing, and still have tons of power left.

    --
    egypt urnash minimal art.
  40. peoples choice apple macbook air by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

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