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Most Americans Think Courts Are Failing To Limit Government Surveillance
Nerval's Lobster writes "More than half of Americans believe that the federal courts have failed to limit the U.S. government's collection of personal information via phone records and the Internet, according to a new survey from the Pew Research Center for the People and the Press. But that's nothing compared to the 70 percent who believe that the government 'uses this data for purposes other than investigating terrorism,' according to the organization's summary of its survey. Another 63 percent of respondents indicated they thought the government is collecting information about the content of their communications. The Pew Research Center surveyed 1,480 adults over the course of five days in July. 'The public's views of the government's anti-terrorism efforts are complex, and many who believe the reach of the government's data collection program is expansive still approve of the effort overall,' the organization's summary added. 'In every case, however, those who view the government's data collection as far-reaching are less likely to approve of the program than those who do not.' Some 47 percent of those surveyed approved of the government's collection of phone and Internet data, while 50 percent disapproved. Among those who thought the government is reading their personal email or listening to their phone calls, some 40 percent approved of the data collection, even as 58 percent disapproved. There's much more, including how opinions of government surveillance break across political party lines on the Pew Research Center's Website."
Yes, there are times Godwin's law should be applied. And when your government is reading your mail (email, phone calls, social media). and monitoring your travel (street camers, license plate scanners on police cruisers), and your police are being militarized.
Exhibit 1: Listening to your communication
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/354590/greenwald-nsa-has-trillions-e-mails-and-phone-calls-betsy-woodruff
Exhibit 2: Monitoring your travel
http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2013/07/28/18740565.php
Exhibit 3: Militarization of police
http://www.forbes.com/sites/bradlockwood/2011/11/30/the-militarizing-of-local-police/
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/4203345
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Essentially, the only reason most American's do not realize they are living in a police state is because most American's are decent folk and indoctrinated to submit to authority. As such, very few American's ever conflict with the state on a level to feel the police state.
The deranged genocide of millions is NOT a requirement for a police state. While Hitler and Stalin killed millions, much of the Soviet Republics police state history was not under the auspices of genocide. A police state, by necessity does not need to be a deranged murderous state, in order to be a police state.
So yes, with all of that happening. I think we've reached high time to be justified in enacting Godwin's Law.
.. said the head of the NSA, TSA, and IRS. "After all, Trayvon could have been me."
"People have lost hope in democracy. So what do we place our hope for the future in now?" We were not ever a democracy. We are a Constitutional Republic. At least you could bother to fact check. It isn't voting that is the issue, it is the lak of accountability. Obama was elected on the premise of transparency, ending the surveillance state and reigning in the Patriot Act, and pulling out of undeclared wars around the world. He abandoned those promises. The courts interpret the laws, and also plays a major factor in the Constitutionality of them. They are critical in keeping the laws on record in accordance with the Constitution. Failing that, they are as guilty and accountable as the Executive branch and the Congress that allow this sort of bullshit to continue into law.
I recently wrote a long post about the subject:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4016327&cid=44388965
As a nation, we need to come to terms with what our country has become.
After re-reading it, I would only change a few things: our goon squad isn't the most oppressive by any stretch, but it is the most well-armed. And while I believe that America is in reality a fascist totalitarian state, it's important to remember that there is no central plan that makes it so. It is the combined effect of corruption, institutional failures, and political apathy that make it effectively a fascist totalitarian state.
That's good, because it's less easy for any one individual to take over the entire system. But it's also bad because it can hide in plain sight.
Essentially, the only reason most American's do not realize they are living in a police state is because most American's are decent folk and indoctrinated to submit to authority. As such, very few American's ever conflict with the state on a level to feel the police state.
I'm guessing this is just a troll but I'll bite anyway. A blanket assertion that all americans are too dumb to realize what a police state is followed by the assertion that we are all a bunch of sheep who are too docile to do anything about it? Not sure this person has met a lot of americans if they really think that and I'm quite sure this person has NO idea what life in an actual police state is like. I have friends who have actually live in genuine, certified police states and I've spoken to some of them at length about it. Whatever problems we have here in the US, there is NO valid comparison to be made. I do not live in fear of going to jail for off hand criticisms of our elected leaders. I do not fear that those currently in power will not leave office peacefully if they lose elections. I do not fear for a military coup. I do not think our courts as an institution are toothless or corrupt. The US has its problems but being a police state isn't one of them.
We actually understand what is going on, know our government is misbehaving and many of us are working actively to bring it back into line. This isn't our first rodeo with a government that has stepped out of line. That's what governments naturally try to do and correcting that tendency often takes time. You don't have to get out the ammo box to solve every problem. Usually the soap, ballot and jury boxes are quite sufficient.
They are doing exactly as they are told.
70% of americans are failing to understand that what they see in movies is not real.
One only need to look at the City of Boston to see the full force of the Militarized Police State. One man, wounded and half dead, and the whole town goes Apeshit poo flinging crazy. Martial Law.
Or how about a few months before, when Big Bear Lake was also under Martial Law, for a lone gun man on the run.
If I were a terrorist, I would be planning on small time bomb and gun scare and go into "hide and seek" mode to shut down a town. A few buddies more and we could shut down every major metropolis in the USA. Wouldn't take more than a dozen or two to scare everyone and allow for the USA to go into full lockdown.
It will be the new 9/11. And good luck stopping 20 independent coordinated people from pulling this off. Pick off one, and nothing changes.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
What is worse is that even with such a biased questioning, 50% of the people approve. That means that people know their email is read. They know the data is used for other things. Thus they know the government is lying to their face. Yet they still agree.
If it were a fair questioning, that number might have been even higher.
I normally never blame the rape victim, but it is hard to defend the victim if (s)he bends over willingly and asks for more with a smile.
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
In 2008/2012, there were close to 40 candidates initially running President.
I live in Pennsylvania, by the time the primaries arrived Pennsylvanians had a choice of voting for:
2008 - Clinton/Obama on the Democrat ticket, or McCain on the Republican ticket - where were the other dozens of choices?
2012 - Obama on the Democrat ticket, or Romney on the Republican ticket - where were the other dozens of choices?
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My point, we only THINK we had an election. What we were given was a choice to vote for one of two candidates selected by the American politburo. These party laws, ballot laws, 2,000 signatures for a Democrat or Republican to be on a ballot, 20,000 for a 3rd party.
They're designed to allow us to feel like we have an influence via our vote. But they hide the illusion of reality, that we're living in a dream world NEO. We don't have a vote.
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Heck, Ron Paul followers elected (legally) numerous convention "delegates". But then the Republican party refused to give them entrance credentials, even though they had legally been elected.
This is the mask that hides the truth.
"most Americans", I didn't say all...
There is in fact a growing number who are coming to similar conclusions. That something is seriously wrong with the path America is on, and the behaviors of our government.
But even still, a great many in America feel "Well if I'm not doing anything wrong, what do I have to worry about?"
But
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I have friends and relatives who have lived as well. And you know what most of them say, America is far better than Russia, and other states. And no, we're no N. Korea for sure.
But those who live through, exclaim they're seeing it again. Those who have left, exclaim that we're starting to do many of the same things.
"We actually understand what is going on, know our government is misbehaving and many of us are working actively to bring it back into line."
Yes, I and you, and probably 20% of Americans fall into this category. And hopefully it will continue to grow.
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But what are you arguments for the fact that we're NOT living in a police state? versus that we're just subservient to said state?
One also has to remember that a just because something isn't to the fullest extreme, does not negate it from being what it is.
A Big Mac may not be as unhealthy as a giant Fat Burger. But it's still unhealthy.
We may not be a police state on par with Russia, N. Korea, etc. But how does one argue we are not a police state when we are under 100% monitoring, our police have the authority act, detain, seize property on a whim.
???
When I was raised we called America, "Land of the Free, Home of the Brave." Calling ourselves something that echoed "Fatherland," or "Motherland" would have met revulsion. Those were appellations for Nazis and Communists. We despised the KGM, Stasi, and SS for their total surveillance. Being stopped to show your papers on a public road was THE test for whether you lived in a totalitarian state. Now we have the NSA violating the highest law of our land at will, and the TSA making random stops on our highways demanding drivers submit to searches and checks of their papers. Americans are still quite heavily armed for a civlian population, and we still do have means to information that circumvent government and official media. We will see if Americans still have enough moxy, enough self-awareness as a free people to rise up and re-assert their freedom, or if they will submit to tyranny and take the whole world down with them. But either way, it will not happen without a great deal of blood.
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
The proof of the overreach is that the *Foreign* Intelligence Surveillance Court (and Act) is used to approve *Domestic* surveillance. That is so totally obviously not what its intended purpose was, that the whole thing is rather quite hillarious to foreigners.
Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!