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Fukishima Springs Water Leak

sl4shd0rk writes "The Japanese Fukishima crisis took a turn for the worse this week as it was found a barrier built to contain contaminated water has been breached; a leak defined by 20 trillion to 40 trillion becquerels of radioactive tritium. This is yet another problem on top of a spate of errors plaguing the 2011 nuclear disaster site. Nuclear regulatory official Shinji Kinjo has cited Tokyo Electric Power Company as having a 'weak sense of crisis' as well as hinted at previous bunglings by TEPCO as the reason one cannot 'just leave it up to Tepco alone.' If Nuclear energy is ever to move forward, these types of disasters need to be eliminated."

34 of 163 comments (clear)

  1. "Fukushima Springs Water" by korbulon · · Score: 5, Funny

    "I'd buy that for a doller!"

    1. Re:"Fukushima Springs Water" by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

      "I'd buy that for a doller!"

      Step right up!. A time-tested restorer of vitality.

    2. Re:"Fukushima Springs Water" by lordofthechia · · Score: 3, Funny

      is Fukushima Springs some new resort or day spa?

      It's a hot springs. Come in and let the steamy hot water melt away all your stress!

      --
      Georgia Tech, the leader in Chia(tm) technology.
  2. " these types of disasters need to be eliminated." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Industry doesn't make mistakes, it makes profit. Risk is for the beancounters to calculate and recalculate after the fact.

  3. WTF is a 'becquerels?' by CanHasDIY · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Can we just start measuring radiation in Rads now? Sure would make things simpler to explain...

    becquerels == ORads (Outbound Radiation)

    sieverts == IRads (Inbound Radiation) or ARads (Absorbed Radiation)

    Or just "Rads" as a general term, i.e. "the leak is dumping 20-30 billion Rads into the ecosystem / Nobody can absorb that many Rads and survive! / Background radiation at 2,500 Rads, sir."

    Using terms that the layman can hardly spell, let alone understand, isn't helping to raise awareness. Kinda the opposite.

    --
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    1. Re:WTF is a 'becquerels?' by ColdWetDog · · Score: 3, Funny

      It's French! How do you think it got this outrageous accent?

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:WTF is a 'becquerels?' by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Using terms that the layman can hardly spell, let alone understand, isn't helping to raise awareness. Kinda the opposite.

      Actually, the Becquerel is probably the easiest measure of radiation to understand: It's simply one decay per second.

      No arbitrary scale factors based on grams of some rare element that most people have never even seen, and no complicated biological models. Just decays per second.

    3. Re:WTF is a 'becquerels?' by MachineShedFred · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Ionizing radiating is a complex subject, thus it has a complex set of measurements that mean specific things.

      Dumbing it down doesn't do anyone any good.

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    4. Re:WTF is a 'becquerels?' by washort · · Score: 2

      you left out football fields and Libraries of Congress.

    5. Re:WTF is a 'becquerels?' by pj2541 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, this is a relatively small amount of radiation, a Curie is 3.7 * 10^10 becquerels, or roughly 40 billion becquerels, roughly 1/1000 of this leak. If this were a point source, and you were 1 meter away, your dose would be 1000 rem per hour, which would reach a 50% probability of being lethal (300 rem) in roughly 20 minutes. Since it is a disseminated source, and there's no one anywhere close to that near it, I'd say this is pretty much overblown hype. I used to work in the radiation measurement industry, and the preceding is pretty much quick and dirty shortcuts (ignoring quality factors and the conversion to rads, for instance,) but it's close enough for government work.

    6. Re:WTF is a 'becquerels?' by Shimbo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They use the becquerel in the news because it gives much larger units than the curie. It's not as nice a headline if they said Fukishima had released 1100 curies of radiation.

      Becquerel is the standard SI unit; the BBC would generally use those unless the non-standard unit is widely used. Although quoting GBq or TBq rather than the big scary numbers would be best IMHO.

    7. Re:WTF is a 'becquerels?' by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 2

      A becquerel is the breakdown of A SINGLE atom per second. News reports have standardized on the becquerel because the numbers are so much larger and more impressive. Just the background radiation going on inside you and I and each of us is about 4500 Bq. And yes, any one of those Bq going off inside you at exactly the right place and time could have a mutagenic effect on your offspring.

    8. Re:WTF is a 'becquerels?' by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 3, Informative

      Plus, even in the explanation page, it seems that the becquerel is usually expressed with per-volume or per-weight measure.

      For radiation release events like this, it's simply the overall amount released for the whole event. You don't need per volume or weight.

      The per volume amount will eventually depend on how much the contamination gets diluted, but that's location dependent and probably unknown right now.

      It sounds to me someone used this unit with the express intent of making it sound big and scary, and that's disingenuous even if accurate.

      More likely, they used it because it's a standard SI unit, unlike the curie. Using curies would be more like quoting distances in furlongs because you think that meters sound "too scary" due to the bigger numbers.

    9. Re:WTF is a 'becquerels?' by Nemyst · · Score: 2

      Except the rad is a deprecated, non-SI unit. The most useful unit for humans is the sievert (Sv), since it describes the effective absorbed dose regardless of source. 1Sv of alpha radiation does the same damage (give or take, obviously) as 1Sv of gamma radiation to the human body. It's a much more complicated value to compute (since it takes into account all those elements mentioned and more), but it's also much better to use as a comparison. The gray (Gy) is an absorbed dose measurement, which doesn't take into account biological interactions. Therefore it can be matched to other SI units in the form of 1 J/kg. Sieverts are derived from grays using a quality factor.

      By comparison, the becquerel (Bq) can be computed straight from information like the half-life and mass, making it a much more theoretical measurement. It is equivalent to the reciprocal second. From what I gather, the becquerel figure is used because it's an estimate from the quantity and type of radioactive material, as opposed to a measurement done on the field.

    10. Re:WTF is a 'becquerels?' by Shimbo · · Score: 3, Informative

      >

      The anti nukes seem to love bigging up the true technical measures by splitting them into smaller units (i.e. turning 1Sv into 1000 mSv). Exaggeration without actually exaggerating anything. It's rather clever actually.

      You're reaching a little here; you have a point with the trillion Bq thing but doses are usually quoted in mSv, because it's a convenient size. 1mSv is the recommend maximum annual dose for members of the public, for example. I don't see quoting doses in mSv as any more unusual than an engineer giving a length as 1200mm.

  4. Re:Should be Fukushima not Fukishima by ColdWetDog · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Spelling counts

    Punctuation, not so much.

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  5. Tepco is suicidal or insanely stupid by vadim_t · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In principle, I think nuclear power is a perfectly sound idea that can be implemented safely and reliably.

    But that's in principle. In practice somehow it turns out to be managed by complete morons that even after getting involved in the center of a huge scandal, still manage to show amazing incompetence and disregard for public safety, even when they know perfectly fine that the whole world is paying attention to them, and is already extremely distrustful.

    And this state of affairs doesn't do their own industry any good. It's precisely crap like this what results in the replacement of nuclear with coal.

    1. Re:Tepco is suicidal or insanely stupid by Joining+Yet+Again · · Score: 2

      tl;dr Your two choices are balance and destruction.

      Centralise it all, and you'll end up with one massive monolithic corrupt power structure.

      Leave it to the market, and each entity will abuse every other in the quest for profit.

      Stringently regulate a marketplace in the interests of the country, and everyone except the megalomaniacs and the stupid Is happy.

    2. Re:Tepco is suicidal or insanely stupid by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 2

      Bury it in Yucatan.

      I suppose that there are plenty of pyramids available there in which to store it, but don't you don't think that the Mexican drug cartels might dig it up and sell it to The Terrorists?

    3. Re:Tepco is suicidal or insanely stupid by dj245 · · Score: 2

      But we have figured out what to do with it. Bury it in Yucatan. However, once again, government and society have gotten in the way.

      The nuclear industry is getting pretty irritated about this. They (and their electric ratepayers) have paid into a disposal fund for decades. That money was supposed to be used to dispose of their waste. But if they decommission their plant, they get stuck with the disposal bill and have to store the materials on site for decades.

      --
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  6. Units!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    20 trillion to 40 trillion becquerels of radioactive tritium

    OK. This is embarrassing. At least use proper units.

    500-1000 Ci of tritium (or Curies).

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CANDU#Tritium_emissions
    http://www.nuclearsafety.gc.ca/eng/readingroom/factsheets/tritium.cfm

    and here is more sensetionalist article, but with some numbers to compare,

    http://www.ccnr.org/tritium_1.html

    COMMENTS ON THE DUMPING OF 3500 CURIES OF TRITIUM INTO THE OTTAWA RIVER FROM THE NPD NUCLEAR POWER REACTOR ON JULY 19 1981

    CANDU reactors emit more tritium than the so called massive spill above at Fukushima. Tritium is not very dangerous, especially in water. Even when exposed to tritium, your body has a biological half-life of only about two weeks - you pee it out along with water. Radiological halflife is 12 years so you get the idea.

    Today most CANDU start to capture tritium instead of venting it, and then selling it.

    Anyway, the story is not a very big story. There is a lot of worse things that could be leaked, like mercury. And mercury tends to poison things for much longer than a few years - just look at the state of oceans today and cry.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minamata_disease

  7. Re:OK, Einstein by Joining+Yet+Again · · Score: 2

    I'd rather see nuclear energy than reliance on oil, but humans have managed to fuck it up on many occasions.

    Everything can be made 100% safe in theory, and any disaster can be optmally managed in theory, but in practice every system is designed and implemented by humans, and this must be taken into account at every stage of, well, everything.

    Nuclear power must be managed carefully in the interests of the people, IOW strong independent oversight to the exclusion of both unaccountable stagnation (Chernobyl) and regulatory capture (Tepco).

  8. Re:once again by Inconexo · · Score: 2

    What do you mean, Doc? All the best stuff is made in Japan.

  9. Wow. 20-40 TRILLION becquerels... by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 3, Informative

    ...actually means nothing to most readers not in the field. So, some comparisons:

    Radioactivity from potassium in an average human body: 4000 Bq.

    Radioactivity from potassium in entire human population of Earth: ~30 trillion Bq.

    Radioactivity from one kilogram of radium: 37 trillion Bq.

    Radioactivity released during Three Mile Island event: 481 thousand trillion Bq.

    Radioactivity released during Chernobyl event: 5.2 million trillion Bq.

    I'm thinking not to panic just yet.

    1. Re:Wow. 20-40 TRILLION becquerels... by Joining+Yet+Again · · Score: 2

      I think only strawmen are panicking so far?

    2. Re:Wow. 20-40 TRILLION becquerels... by Mt._Honkey · · Score: 2

      It's an appropriate unit of measurement, and also your analogy is off:

      Yes, Bq is a unit of rate of decay. So measuring a release in Bq is saying "this is the rate of radiation the stuff is emitting", and that's what you need to know to know if you're getting a dangerous dose over your lifetime. If they said "atoms" or "kg" of material, it would tell you nothing useful by itself. 1 kg of U-238 is virtually harmless because it is so long lived, so it is infrequently emitting radiation, while 1 kg of Co-60 will just murder you.

      As for your analogy, measuring the noise at a concert in watts is telling you the rate at which acoustic energy is emitted, and so is analogous to Bq. What you're advocating is equivalent to stating the integrated sound energy of the concert in Joules.

      There's no perfect general unit for radiation, because the effect on a person will depend on the dose rate, the dose duration, the damage done by the type of radiation, where the contamination resides and moves over time both in the environment and in your body, etc. Bq is a good first unit for a general idea in this kind of situation.

      --

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  10. How much radioactive water is leaking? by camperdave · · Score: 3, Informative

    One becquerel is defined as the decay of one atom of a radioisotope per second. So it's a rate. 40 trillion becquerel would be 40 trillion (4*10^13) tritium atoms decaying per second. Tritiated water (T2O) has a molar mass of 22.0315 grams per mole. A mole is 6.022*10^23 molecules. So 6.022*10^23 molecules of T2O has a mass of 22.0315 grams, therefore 40 trillion molecules has a mass of (4*10^13)*22.0315/(6.022*10^23) or 1.46*10^-9 grams. Assuming a density of 1 gram/ml and 1/20th of a ml per drop, we're talking super-heavy water gushing out of this leak at the incredible rate of just under a drop per year.

    --
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    1. Re:How much radioactive water is leaking? by rkww · · Score: 2

      No, because you've forgotten that there are two tritium atoms to a molecule, and you're assuming all the tritium atoms delay in the first year; the halflife is twelve years so each year 0.94 remains (since 0.94 ^ 12 ~= 0.5). So you're out by a factor of eight or so, I reckon.

  11. I don't understand the secrecy by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This secrecy is just stupid. Even when the reactor was in full melt down they were saying "Don't worry, everything is fine, nothing to see here." But then the news were announcing the various radioactives that were being detected outside the plant. Those isotopes are only produced by a reactor in meltdown and only get out if the reactor is in full meltdown and is interacting with bits found outside the core. So long before they said how bad it was my Physics 101 was telling me Holy Crap! That reactor is way out of control! Not just "low on cooling water". That was like saying that someone shot through the heart was "Low on circulatory capacity."

    Hiding the truth does nothing to help them look good, and in the long term adds to their list of mistakes. But if at this point they come clean with every bit of data people not only would know how far to run (and where not to fish) but a world full of engineers and physicists might contribute something helpful. For example, if they reveal that radioactive and water soluble product X is being produced some guy in the physics department in Argentina might say, "Hey if you put some cheap water soluble Y into the coolant it will not only precipitate product X out of the water solution but it will then absorb neutrons resulting in other stable isotopes of one of the atoms in chemical Y." This might be little known knowledge that the guy learned 20 years ago when he accidentally gummed up the university's reactor 20 years ago.

    Also open information allows for people to write better case studies on how(and where) not to build a reactor.

    It is just too bad if all this open information makes a few people look bad.

  12. Re:OK, Einstein by pixelpusher220 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Everything can be made 100% safe in theory

    Theories are nice, but reality is a bit more problematic.

    While nuclear risks can be mitigated somewhat as can risks from other sources of power, the problem is what happens when they do fail. Every single other source of power is able to be cleaned up while walking the site in a matter of days. Nuclear makes quite a large area uninhabitable for decades.

    --
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  13. O horns of dilemma on which we are impaled! by Medievalist · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If only there were some options other than nuclear fission and burning brown coal in an open pit!

    Oh, wait, there are.

    Here in reality, decentralized heterogenous power production would be inherently better for human culture and society, since it has less tendency to create economic disparities large enough to engender wholesale regulatory capture or militarization of power production, has fewer military vulnerabilities, and employs more working people gainfully (instead of funneling money to banksters), and would potentially allow a less expensive grid to carry more total power.

    Solar, wind, hydro, and most importantly carbon-neutral biomass energy plants spotted all over the country on a true "smart grid" is the way to go. Solve dozens of social and economic problems while eliminating the pollution caused by burning petroleum.

    Incidentally, I'm not the first to figure this out. Nikola Tesla talked about the idiocy of burning limited resources in 1915, before we compounded the problem by building terrestrial fission plants.

  14. Re:OK, Einstein by Agent0013 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But, but, but. . . If there is strong independent oversight there will be less room for profits! We can't run a business without profits, so we must accept some amount of risk. Well I mean, you must accept some risk. The company will not accept any risk to the profits, they push that off to you.

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  15. Sensationalizing puds by BitZtream · · Score: 2

    Becquerels ... REALLY?

    What you did was found the smallest unit possible to try and describe the scary damage this has done. Why the fuck didn't you just use the atomic weight of the entire plant, thats about as useful and meaningful.

    You're using an flow rate as a measure of volume ... and ignoring the whole time variable. You really don't have any idea what these things are you're converting about, do you?

    You guys at slashdot are a bunch of douche bags without Taco around. No wonder he left.

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  16. Re:what's the worst that can happen? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

    According to Wikipedia: The US Nuclear Regulatory Commission states that in normal operation in 2003, 56 pressurized water reactors released 40,600 curies (1.50 PBq) of tritium. So the 40 TBq in this leak, is about as much tritium as US nukes release every 10 days during normal operation. This all sounds a bit overblown.