The Pirate Bay Is 10 Years Old: 'We Really Didn't Think We'd Make It This Far'

An anonymous reader writes "The Pirate Bay, arguably the most resilient file sharing website, was first founded on August 9, 2003, although it didn't launch until September 15, 2003. Nevertheless, the group considers the former date to be its start, so today The Pirate Bay is 10 years old. From their blog: 'We really didn't think we'd make it this far. Not because of cops, mafiaa or corrupt politicians. But because we thought that we'd eventually be to old for this shit. But hey, running this ship makes us feel young.'"

Comments

sex, shrugs, docked with trolls

[Anonymous Coward]

The content isn't really docked at the pirate bay, but its peering out there in the distance among the trolls!

If information really wants to be free, why is there so much crud on this?

10 years with god knows how many peta-"bites."

Re:sex, shrugs, docked with trolls

[nurb432]

Information wants to be free, but there are those who want to keep it bottled up.

An those that do want to keep it bottled, have more money than you an I.

Re:sex, shrugs, docked with trolls

[Anonymous Coward]

But they are outnumbered and we shall crush them.

Re: sex, shrugs, docked with trolls

[giorgist]

Are you sure ? I would say "we" wildly out number them even at $1 each we add up to much more.

Re: sex, shrugs, docked with trolls

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you sure ? I would say "we" wildly out number them even at $1 each we add up to much more.

Sure, if you consider the entire thing to be a big "them vs. us" contest with the whole world. Once you realize it's more complicated than that, even to the point of accepting it's more of "them vs. us vs. don't care", and realize "don't care" is one hell of a lot bigger than either "them" or "us"...

Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Anonymous Coward]

The thieves who spend most of the time they aren't abrogating the rights of others coming up with tortured justifications about why they aren't really thieves? Those are the heroes.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[philovivero]

I know, I shouldn't feed the troll. But since trolls are tireless, we must be also tireless in trying to talk sense.

It isn't stealing. When I steal, you don't have what I took from you.

The copyright contract has been broken. It is specifically mandated to be for a LIMITED TIME. Since copyrights are now unlimited, there is no longer an obligation to follow copyright.

The justifications aren't tortured. At this point, the justifications of the copyright cartel are pretty tortured, though.

The people actually producing the art work don't get much compensation for their work. The copyright cartel makes sure of that. Musicians don't get their royalties, and film crews are constantly the victims of bizarro accounting rules where no matter what happens, the film always "lost money."

And your flippant dismissal of calling politicians corrupt flies in the face of extremely extensive and well-documented history.

What do you call the opposite of a tinfoil hatter? Someone who in the face of overwhelming evidence still believes the lies of the slave driver? A Stockholmer? This is you. Welcome to your new label.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Anonymous Coward]

It isn't stealing. When I steal, you don't have what I took from you

Idiots like you need to be beaten senseless and left for vultures to eat.

If everyone doesn't pay for books, music, etc. then the artists will get NO PAY.

Do you work for NO PAY, you sorry brain-dead logic-bankrupt piece of subhuman
waste ? No, you don't, because if you did you would be starving and homeless.

Your logic is BULLSHIT.

My logic is based on reality.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[PopeRatzo]

The thieves who spend most of the time they aren't abrogating the rights of others coming up with tortured justifications about why they aren't really thieves?

I didn't realize we were talking about 2013 Capitalism.

But yes, you're right.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[PopeRatzo]

Has there ever been a case where putting a word in all capital letters made the argument more persuasive?

My logic is based on reality.

Why does that sentence always make the writer sound crazy? Seriously, if you hear someone say, "My logic is based on reality," you're almost always hearing someone who does not have much of a grasp on either.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Anonymous Coward]

Not to mention that they don't host or distribute anything. The users of TPB are the ones doing the pirating. GP might as well say that anyone who runs a search engine is a thief because they link to pirated material.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, if you hear someone say, "My logic is based on reality," you're almost always hearing someone who does not have much of a grasp on either.

Your ad hominem attack proves that you are inept at the art of argument.

The fact remains that people cannot survive in the western world
without some source of income, and the fantasy that artists should
be deprived of the ability to make a living because some twerps
like you want music or books for free is bullshit.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[jones_supa]

Maybe not, but TPB hugely contributes to the efficient indexing of magnet links which point mostly to pirated files.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Clsid]

There is no doubt that the system is corrupt, but not paying even a dime for anything is corrupt as well. So don't fool yourself, by using those sites you have become the same thief as the music industry executive. Not everybody can go to all concerts and buy the CDs directly from artists, but at least if we try the legal avenues, at some point the actual artist will get even 1 dollar of compensation for your money.

I have been in countries with little copyright protection and guess what happens with their music and film industry? The government kind of have to step in to fund projects, since otherwise the box office is kind of a moot point. So corrupt or not, the free market with some copyright protection still rules in that sense.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Anonymous Coward]

Can't be too efficient, now can we?

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[jones_supa]

It isn't stealing. When I steal, you don't have what I took from you.

You take away the potential to make money from that copy.

People somehow seem to think that when the reproduction cost for something is zero, it automatically removes all the value from the product and unlimited free copies can be made and no one loses anything.

For example, when you buy a book from a real bookstore, you are not only paying for the printing costs but also the extra value that the bookstore, publisher and the author has set for the item to recoup the production costs. Now we can take the physical printing process and the bookstore out of the equation and if we want, and make unlimited PDF copies or whatever. Does that mean that the publisher and author deserve no compensation?

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Anonymous Coward]

Most of human art was produced before copyright existed, and the artists managed to get their meals just fine. Copyright was a positive force, for a while, when copying was expensive and when it was a limited privilege. That is not the case anymore. Currently copyright prevents far more art from coming to be than it incentives it. It is time to abolish it once and for all.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[jamstar7]

Your argument would be fine and logical IF the copyright holders actually paid the content producers what it's worth to keep them producing. The middlemen, the production companies and distributors, tend to grab the copyrights, and try to pass off 'work for hire' contracts on the actual content creators to pay them a set fee to create, thus keeping all the profits for themselves.

Read what Joe Straczynski, creator of Babylon 5, has to say about 'Hollywood accounting'. It's easily Googleable, but one of the things he's been quoted on is that B5 has *yet* to 'show a profit' according to Warner Brothers, and the way the contract was written, they could have a fire on a set in the Congo next week and the replacement costs would be charged to B5's profits. So don't give me that 'the artist gets ripped off by piracy' routine. The artists are already getting ripped off by their distributors.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Anonymous Coward]

That and the reports from certain journalists that show the "real" reports/studies Big Media paid to have done, that shows no link between piracy and loss of revenue.

Despite these reports being feature on /. people either didn't read them, or have there own one way of thinking, the thinking!! these studies were falsely reported. It doesn't count (I guess) when they are the real "REAL" papers saying that there is no link!!

I question Big Medias reports on higher revenue since there is a communist like approach, solely by them to go after ISP's and anyone else regardless of laws and rules in place that are suppose to protect people against monopoly companies. And there is no movement by the "we are all for your freedoms and rights" Republican party, or by the "we are all about your civil liberties, and human rights" Democrats, to eliminate this kind of activity companies engage in, to threaten or blackmail other companies and people.

My favorite part of this "But because we thought that we'd eventually be to old for this shit. But hey, running this ship makes us feel young.'"

Re: Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Anonymous Coward]

How is copyright a positive force when copying is _expensive_?

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Anonymous Coward]

I have been in countries with little copyright protection and guess what happens with their music and film industry?

Let me guess... the countries and their cultures are vastly different from our own in ways that have nothing to do with copyright? Indeed. You have no hard scientific evidence that shows that copyright is beneficial.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[clarkkent09]

It isn't stealing. When I steal, you don't have what I took from you.
 
Boring nitpicking. Stealing is just a shorthand way of saying you are taking something for free against the wishes of the rightful owner who has put a price on it.

The copyright contract has been broken. It is specifically mandated to be for a LIMITED TIME. Since copyrights are now unlimited, there is no longer an obligation to follow copyright.
 
Copyrights are not unlimited in any major country that I know of. Can you specify contract are you talking about that makes it ok for you to break the law if, in your opinion, the duration of copyright is too long?

The people actually producing the art work don't get much compensation for their work.
 
There is nothing stopping any artist to sell their art by themselves and keep ALL the money. The reason they sign up with labels (to take music as an example) is because making 5% of the millions of dollars is better than 100% of zero dollars . The share of the profits that they get reflects the reality that it is not the quality of music that sells it but marketing that the label provides.

And your flippant dismissal of calling politicians corrupt flies in the face of extremely extensive and well-documented history.
 
Absolutely agree with that one. Assuming you are consistent in believing that such corrupt politicians should have much less power in areas other than copyright (such as taxation/welfare, industry regulation, healthcare etc etc) then we are in perfect agreement on this one.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Anonymous Coward]

You take away the potential to make money from that copy.

And who gains that potential? No one. It's not something that physically exists in any form, and it's not something that can even be owned.

And there must be a lot of thieves around. For instance, someone walking down the sidewalk had the gall to refuse to give me money when I asked for it, thereby depriving me of money I could have had were the situation different!

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Anonymous Coward]

Give me the option to pay appropriately direct to the artists and I'll pay. If not, if you insist I put money in to the leech class that screws the artists... fuck them.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you actually studied economics? Do you understand supply and demand? And, more importantly, do you understand the fallacy of excluded middle?

Nobody is saying that "everyone should stop paying for all forms of art, and download it all for free." Nor is anyone (sane) predicting that all purchases of digital art will cease should copyright law change or copyright enforcement cease. If you believe either of these two things, then you are failing to grasp the basics of human behavior.

1) People *like* going to concerts. Even if they could download a video of a concert later, they are willing to pay a fee to go see the concert in person. *artists make money this way.*

2) People *like* going to movie theaters. Same deal.

3) Even when downloading content, most people will pay if the price is reasonable and the delivery mechanism is convenient. Amazon.com, for example, makes a fortune selling MP3's individually, even those same MP3's are trivially easy to download for free.

Most "pirates" would like to see a return to balance in copyright law. 20 year maximum is more than reasonable. And artists would get paid!

Such a world is economically viable. It is fair, and it works. Until the content cartels are willing to play by reasonable rules like these, people will continue to go around them by downloading, and will feel completely justified in doing so, whether you call them stupid or not.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Anonymous Coward]

How about changing the business model to something more sustainable? Don't do some work if you haven't negotiated some sort of payment scheme if your goal was to earn some money from your work. Think about how the patron model was used through the ages to finance creative work. This can work well today because we have the Internet to help spread advertise the idea worldwide. In fact, there are places such as Indiegogo and Kickstarter to support this form of financing.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[harperska]

Copyrights are not unlimited in any major country that I know of.

I think he is referring to the de facto unlimited nature of copyright in the United States, in that due to the lobbying power of the Walt Disney Company, the copyright term will never be less than the age of Mickey Mouse. As long as they stay in business, Disney will forever keep pushing congress to extend the term of copyrights in order to ensure that Mickey will never enter the public domain. Therefore, anything copyrighted after Mickey Mouse was copyrighted effectively has an unlimited copyright term.

Can you specify contract are you talking about that makes it ok for you to break the law if, in your opinion, the duration of copyright is too long?

If the law itself is unjust, the remedy must not come from within the law but from without. In other words, civil disobedience is the only way to affect change if the system itself is corrupt. Insisting on the use of an existing law to combat an unjust system of laws is equivocating.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[jones_supa]

Facepalm... that's all I can say.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Anonymous Coward]

Most of human art was produced before copyright existed, and the artists managed to get their meals just fine.

Actually, you're wrong.

There is a reason the phrase "starving artist" exists.

Artists who did not have a patron in the days prior to copyright
often struggled. Very few artists had pleasant lives in which they
didn't need to worry about food, clothing, and shelter.

You are just another stupid simple minded fuck who believes what
he wants to believe because it suits your narcissistic worldview.
If you ever grow up you will be embarrassed to think of what a prick
you used to be.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[cheekyjohnson]

20 year maximum is more than reasonable.

If copyright itself didn't infringe upon people's rights, then I might agree with that, but that is sadly not the case.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Anonymous Coward]

You can do that by pirating your art and then manually sending the typical price of that product in full directly to the artist.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[jamstar7]

You take away the potential to make money from that copy.

People somehow seem to think that when the reproduction cost for something is zero, it automatically removes all the value from the product and unlimited free copies can be made and no one loses anything.

For example, when you buy a book from a real bookstore, you are not only paying for the printing costs but also the extra value that the bookstore, publisher and the author has set for the item to recoup the production costs. Now we can take the physical printing process and the bookstore out of the equation and if we want, and make unlimited PDF copies or whatever. Does that mean that the publisher and author deserve no compensation?

The author is paid by the publisher with an advance, not the book store, a set fee against future royalties. The royalties kick in after the advance is covered by enough sales. Editing costs and printing costs are paid by the publisher in job lots. The publisher is paid by the distributor. The distributor is paid by the book store.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Anonymous Coward]

When a person copies a protected work, literally nothing is taken. It's not stealing, it's a malum de jure know as copyright infringment. There is nothing inherently wrong with copying, that is the stability of a society does not require copyrights.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Anonymous Coward]

Believe me, I didn't expect anything more of you.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[jones_supa]

While my general point still stands, thanks for the corrections.

Re: Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Aethedor]

"It isn't stealing. When I steal, you don't have what I took from you."

That's not the definition of stealing. It's taking what is not yours without getting permission or paying for it, while you should have. This is also the case with pirating.

Btw, congrats TPB and I hope you live many more years!!

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Totenglocke]

This should be good. How exactly does copyright infringe upon people's rights?

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Totenglocke]

I should preface this with the fact that I buy lots of media (movies, tv shows, books, and video games). How exactly is pirating something I don't find worth paying for going to cause people to lose money? I used to buy plenty of music when I was younger, but these days I just don't find much that interests me and I primarily listen to my old music that I ripped to mp3's years ago. Since I don't find any reason to buy say the new Lonely Island cd (my life is of equal quality with it or without it), how are they losing anything if I chose to download it? I don't find it worth my money, thus if piracy is not an option I won't buy it and if piracy is an option and I choose to download it, they're still getting zero income from me.

Re: Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Anonymous Coward]

Simple. Because there was need to provide an incentive for copies to be made and for knowledge to be spread. Now there is no need for doing it anymore, as spreading knowledge is very cheap.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Anonymous Coward]

Artists didn't have a less pleasant life than any other commoner. The truth is everybody had a very difficult life in comparison to modern society. Still art existed and people kept creating new stuff. Copyright is unnecessary. Most artists earn far more with other activities than through copyright. Submitting all of humankind to these restrictions to privilege the few that earn a lot with copyright, when most of them are intermediaries and not creators is ridiculous.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Anonymous Coward]

I sent a letter to the BBC about a week ago asking them to set up a mechanism that I could donate for products of theirs that I enjoyed.

I explained that I don't use iTunes and I don't use BluRay, but I wanted a 1080p copy - and asked if there was a way I could donate money directly to them. The request was for the documentary "Africa" - which was the best doco i've ever seen. Go David Attenborough!!

Unfortunately, BBC didn't do me the courtesy of a response.

If I could cut out the middleman and pay the artist directly (well, in this case, BBC), I would. I'm sure others would do the same too.

Yes, I download - but I also pay/try to pay for what I think is good, but I will not pay 1c to any "intermediate" organizations that are bullies, liars, cheats or swindlers.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Anonymous Coward]

And Google, Bing, Yahoo, et al contribute to the efficient indexing of direct links to pirated software.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[TheP4st]

Copyrights are not unlimited in any major country that I know of. Can you specify contract are you talking about that makes it ok for you to break the law if, in your opinion, the duration of copyright is too long?

While not unlimited US copyright is definitely long enough to be viewed as such as most works created today will be under copyright way past your and my lifetime:

As a general rule, for works created after January 1, 1978, copyright protection lasts for the life of the author plus an additional 70 years. For an anonymous work, a pseudonymous work, or a work made for hire, the copyright endures for a term of 95 years from the year of its first publication or a term of 120 years from the year of its creation, whichever expires first. http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-duration.html

It should be obvious to anyone including the most hardcore defenders of the current model for whose benefit these asinine copyright terms have been put in place.

Pro tip: It is not for the benefit of the creators.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Mathinker]

First you'd have to define "right". And the lack of such definition is at the heart of the copyright wars. One side waves around things like "a right to control one's creations", "a right to be paid for my work", and the other side waves around things like "a right to do whatever I want with something I bought", "a right to express myself by producing a derivative work".

Funny how everyone thinks the particular "rights" they wave around are absolute, yet the history of judicial and legislative opinion which deals with the contradictions between these rights is far from deterministic, and varies widely from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, or even within the same jurisdiction, over time, or even between various contemporaneous judges.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Zontar The Mindless]

I've seen several of my books on TPB, and I still manage to make a living. Get over yourself.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[wertigon]

Copying a file is as much stealing as walking on private property is. It may be a crime but it isn't theft - it's trespassing.

You wouldn't walk on someone else's lawn now, would you?

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[IamTheRealMike]

This is such a fail argument. Why does it even come up?

It is not societies job to stop artists and producers from signing stupid contracts. That's their job, and their job alone. For every writer or actor who signed a stupid contract I can show you one that was smarter and did incredibly well out of their success.

However it IS societies job to ensure that once they've created something and decided what to do with it, that they can then benefit from that work in some way. It's our job because basically every modern society has decided that creative works are good, and professional creatives are even better, and that we need to have a framework in place that lets people focus on making creative works full time. The alternative funding models out there have not been shown to be anywhere near competitive. How many people watch movies funded by Kickstarter?

Re: Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[loufoque]

When you purchase music, you actually purchase a license. Your rights are whatever the seller gives to you through the license. There is no ambiguity.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[serviscope_minor]

Copyrights are not unlimited in any major country that I know of. Can you specify contract are you talking about that makes it ok for you to break the law if, in your opinion, the duration of copyright is too long?

You accuse him of "boring nitpicking" when he says piracy is not theft, whereas you do *exactly* the same stating that copyrights are not unlimited. It's life + 70 years in the US. This means that effectively no one will ever benefit from entry into the public domain of copyright works created in their lifetime. If the timescale is so long that you never see it, then it's as good as unlimited.

To illustrate the absurdity of your argument, try some reductio absurdum. What if coyright terms were 10^6 years. Still not technically unlimited, according to you.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[serviscope_minor]

For every writer or actor who signed a stupid contract I can show you one that was smarter and did incredibly well out of their success.

No, you can't. You can show a few examples of the latter. There are an almost infinite number of the former. There's a reason that Hollywood Accounting has so much published material about it.

How many people watch movies funded by Kickstarter

I have.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Mathinker]

> I have been in countries with little copyright protection and guess what happens with their music and film industry?

I dunno, maybe... government shills will use their great success to claim that, er, copyright needs to be strengthened?

But please, feel free to serve up some referenced facts which actually confirm your anecdotal opinion. I'm actually quite open-minded.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Znork]

If it's society's job to ensure that someone can benefit from creative works, why is it handing the creators something which is utterly worthless? The right to control copying of an abundant product is worth nothing without the distribution network which is not owned by creators.

Oh, right, because copyright is intended to benefit the distributors and not the creators. The creators are merely a cheap excuse and as they are not particularly scarce and most cannot independently gain access to end consumers to a significant degree, they hold no bargaining power and thus have the choice of between getting screwed or getting nothing. Perfect. For the distributors.

If 'copyright' had actually been about incentives for producing creative works it would have been constructed to automatically hand creators a significant portions of the end user transaction. A guaranteed significant cut would actually be worth something and would actually let someone focus on creative works full time.

But it's not. And most 'creatives' would have a better chance of striking it rich by working selling fries with that and investing their proceeds in the lottery than by playing a game which is intentionally stacked against them every step of the way.

Re: Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Znork]

You do realize that the definition of taking means that the one whom the thing is taken from no longer has it? If I take your apple you don't have it. If I take your book you no longer have it.

If I pirate your book you still have it. Because I copied it. I neither took it, nor stole it, I copied it. And if you didn't see it, you'd have no idea it had happened, nor could you demonstrate or even experience any loss, while had you been robbed you'd certainly notice it.

See, physical property rights are actually demonstrably real and arguable as part of natural law, while imaginary property rights cannot be demonstrated or argued without their own previous existence.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Anonymous Coward]

Creationists do it all the time. It makes their arguments truly compelling and I for one am thoroughly convinced to the degree that I go forth this day in search of my beard and sandals. I'm not entirely convinced they'll coordinate well with my sweater kittens, but hey, details.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Anonymous Coward]

My logic is bigger than your logic. Ner...

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[jones_supa]

Yes, but they don't index deliberately only pirate links, and remove copyright-violating links on the copyright holder's demand.

Re: Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe, but the author would still like to be paid for that copy, for his hard work.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[cheekyjohnson]

What happens if you run a website that disobeys copyright law? Well, if they're targeting you already, possibly censorship, which means you've just lost some free speech rights.

What happens if you use your own equipment, resources, and money to produce something that's under the protection of copyright? Well, you could possibly be sued into oblivion if any copyright holders find out, which means copyright also infringes upon physical property rights in order to provide certain people with government-enforced monopolies.

Re: Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[cheekyjohnson]

When you purchase music, you actually purchase a license.

My equipment, my rules; I consider it mine regardless of what the law says.

Re: Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[cheekyjohnson]

Infringing upon people's rights for security or to encourage innovation is, to me, just disgusting. I would oppose the TSA even if it worked, and likewise, I oppose the notion that copyright was okay in the past.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[cheekyjohnson]

Boring nitpicking.

I don't think it is boring nitpicking. I've met a number of normal people who don't even know what copyright infringement actually is, but thanks to people calling it "theft" all the time, they think it involves physical losses. As far as I know, copyright infringement is not legally considered theft, and since copyright is a legal matter, I think people need to use the 'proper' terms when discussing it. Using words such as "theft" just confuses the matter.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Anonymous Coward]

Neither does TPB, because you can easily find torrents directed at legal material on there. It's the users who decide which torrents to put up and a link is not illegal, whether it's a hyperlink, a magnet or a torrent. It's like if I told you "Hey, someone told me that John has illegal drugs" and you go buy illegal drugs from John. You and John have committed a crime, but I haven't.

Do an image search on any search engine. I guarantee you that you'll be pulling tons copyrighted images, so requests for link takedown are obviously not effective nor are the search providers legally required to stop linking to them.

Re: Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[cheekyjohnson]

That's not the definition of stealing.

Why do people rely on definitions from random dictionaries when discussing a legal matter? Not only does calling it "stealing" confuse people who aren't familiar with copyright infringement, but that is not what the legal system recognizes it as.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Anonymous Coward]

Considering that I would not have bought most of the stuff I have pirated anyways, there is no money or sales potential lost at all.

I have pirated some stuff that I later wound up buying, just because I enjoyed it so much, so if anything, piracy helps sales potential for the few quality products out there.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[classiclantern]

According to your "so called" logic, I do "work" for NO PAY and I'm fine with that. Your definition of "work" is sipping Long Island Iced Tea by the pool. My definition of "work" is the creation of a useful or entertaining product. When I write a document for my company they pay me for the time it took to write. I don't get paid every time someone reads my instruction manual, test report, or RFQ. How is it that "artists" spend a month or two writing a book (recording a tune) and expect to get paid for the rest of their life? The actor and director, who got paid $10M for making the movie, expects to cash a huge check ever month for sitting on thier collective ass. Where does this expectation, YOUR expectation, come from? Well, "logically" the artist is unable to produce a viable product day-in and day-out like I do, so they must be paid for past product. It doesn't sound like these guys are being as productive as you and I are expected to be everyday. I'm not "starving or homeless" and I have a book for sale on Amazon that I wrote just for the fun of it.

Re: Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Anonymous Coward]

Lemme guess you have never lived a foodless day as a musician or lived off of oatmeal for a week musicians work as hard if not more hard than avg desk jockey and they deserve fair pay for their labor norman greenbaum lived off the royalties to spirit in the sky for a long time why shouldn't today's hitmakers and hit writers be given same opportunity

Re: Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Anonymous Coward]

Copyright is only unnecessary to those who do not have creative output and seek to punish people that do by STEALING their LABOR

Just because you are one out of 100,000 does not make you innocent. It only means that you comprise 1 / 100,000th of a lawless, unethical mob. this is called LOOTING

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[AmiMoJo]

It's not nitpicking. Intellectual property cannot be stolen per-se, and has no intrinsic value. It can only be duplicated, and even if the author does not wish it there is no direct loss.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[jones_supa]

Neither does TPB, because you can easily find torrents directed at legal material on there. It's the users who decide which torrents to put up and a link is not illegal, whether it's a hyperlink, a magnet or a torrent.

That is a completely naive argument. It is blatantly obvious that TPB's main motivation is to serve pirate magnet links. That someone tucks there an occasional legal torrent does not change the big picture much.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[jones_supa]

Considering that I would not have bought most of the stuff I have pirated anyways, there is no money or sales potential lost at all.

I have pirated some stuff that I later wound up buying, just because I enjoyed it so much, so if anything, piracy helps sales potential for the few quality products out there.

That is somewhat reasonable argument, but there are still people who don't think about this stuff, and it becomes hard to choose to whom we give the free copy. Because many of those people actually would have bought the product if it wasn't there for free and, they won't be buying it even if they enjoy it in the long term.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course it's not. The rationale for copyright in the Constitution is "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries."

How exactly does any life + x years term apply to the "Authors and Inventors", when they are dead?

As to the benefit to society, (even barring any future copyright extensions) works created before I was born will likely not enter the public domain before I die of old age. I think that makes your "unlimited" argument a little more obvious.

Re: Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Mathinker]

> When you purchase music, you actually purchase a license. Your rights are whatever
> the seller gives to you through the license. There is no ambiguity.

My rights are whatever the seller gives me? So if the license I get says I cannot complain about the quality of the music in any public forum, this abrogates my first amendment rights? Somehow, I don't think so.

> There is no ambiguity.

Somehow, I get the impression you aren't a lawyer.

Oh, and by the way, unless you were talking solely about digital downloads, you should read the following Wikipedia article: First sale doctrine. And even the status of digital downloads is not totally determined, we're still waiting for the ReDigi litigation to play out.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Anonymous Coward]

It doesn't have to. Links are not illegal.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[jones_supa]

Sigh...

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Anonymous Coward]

You probably should have thought about all those things *before* you refused to pay for your copyright protection.

Failure to pay for that agreed upon service means we now fail to provide that service. It's as simple as that.

You can only keep bouncing checks for so long and still act surprised no one will accept them any longer.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[quantaman]

The copyright contract has been broken. It is specifically mandated to be for a LIMITED TIME. Since copyrights are now unlimited, there is no longer an obligation to follow copyright.

The justifications aren't tortured. At this point, the justifications of the copyright cartel are pretty tortured, though.

I'm sorry but that justification is pretty tortured.

I pirate too and I have my justifications. For music when I know the album and can buy DRM free files I'll buy. If there isn't a DRM-free option, or I don't know the album that well, I'll probably pirate. I'm also more willing to send money to smaller artists who would really miss it.

For TV and movies there's some legal online broadcasts, and netflicks helps too, but not all shows have online broadcasts, netflicks doesn't work on Linux, and DVDs are super expensive. If there's a legal way, even with ads, I'll watch that way. Otherwise I'll probably pirate.

It's immoral for me to pirate, but not seriously so, and if the media infrastructure changed sufficiently I'd stop. I'm willing to admit I'm doing a mildly bad thing if it means I don't have to lie to myself.

The people actually producing the art work don't get much compensation for their work. The copyright cartel makes sure of that. Musicians don't get their royalties, and film crews are constantly the victims of bizarro accounting rules where no matter what happens, the film always "lost money."

And your flippant dismissal of calling politicians corrupt flies in the face of extremely extensive and well-documented history.

What do you call the opposite of a tinfoil hatter? Someone who in the face of overwhelming evidence still believes the lies of the slave driver? A Stockholmer? This is you. Welcome to your new label.

Politicians making screwy laws and studios using Hollywood accounting means they're unsympathetic crooks, but it doesn't let us off the hook morally speaking.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[PopeRatzo]

and the fantasy that artists should
be deprived of the ability to make a living because some twerps
like you want music or books for free is bullshit.

I've made my living for more than 20 years from the content I've created.

Your assumptions are entirely wrong.

Re: Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[PopeRatzo]

Infringing upon people's rights for security or to encourage innovation

Which "right" is that? Unless of course, you're trying to posit that ideas are property, which is entirely a construct of the industrial revolution. You'll find no such right in natural law.

Re: Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[PopeRatzo]

norman greenbaum lived off the royalties to spirit in the sky for a long time why shouldn't today's hitmakers and hit writers be given same opportunity

The question you should be asking is, "Why should someone expect to live an entire life supported only by the fruits of a work lasting three minutes and twenty-nine seconds?"

How long did Norman Greenbaum work at writing that song? Can you make a case, moral or economic, for so little work producing enough wealth to live on for 44 years? The question you should ask yourself is, "Is that reasonable?"

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Anonymous Coward]

It isn't stealing. When I steal, you don't have what I took from you.

Cool. So, to show that you are not hypocrite, could you share your SSN/credit card number? Numbers still be yours, but maybe you will learn in hard way about this "not stealing".

Re: Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[Richy_T]

I think you two are on the same side but you've crossed wires.

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[MHDK]

> Boring nitpicking. Stealing is just a shorthand way of saying you are taking something for free against the wishes of the rightful owner who has put a price on it.

Boring irrelevance. Calling it stealing or claiming that it is 'rightful', did nothing to address the parent poster's substantive point that there is scant legitmiate moral claim to be awarded the power to ration something that can exist in abundance. The public grants the legal conditions that pertain to copyright, and if the public's desire to encourage creative works through the restriction of non-commercial copying is no longer considered to be in their interests then sad day for copyright holders.

> The share of the profits that they get reflects the reality that it is not the quality of music that sells it but marketing that the label provides.

If the quality of music is truely as worthless as that implies then there is even less moral justification for charging for it, as it is all just some manipulative marketing exercise in turd polishing!

Re:Yeah, it's those politicians who are corrupt

[metrix007]

It doesn't matter if TPB, as an organization clearly advocate piracy. The platform they provide to share torrents is neutral, and does not favor illegal material any more than legal material.

With NSA survilance?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, I just don't belive it anymore. The show around ThePirateBay was all lies. You think it's otherwise possible, with all the survilance going on? No, ThePirateBay was a Honeypot all along and if you Downloaded something from there it will have consquences! Maybe you haven't recived a letter yet, but you are probably on some list somewhere and maybe that's even the reason your last job interview wasn't successful.

Think about it, since ThePirateBay exists the copy protection (DRM) went right into NSA survilance style, permanet Internet connection required and so on. You only "accepted" it because there was Piracy everywhere and the Artists had to earn a living....

Do you think the uploaders couldn't be found out and tracked and taken out? There can't be uploaders unless they are wanted, accepted and fit into the bigger picture.

Re:With NSA survilance?

[Opportunist]

Do you really think the NSA gives half a shit more about content owners than it does about us? They play a completely different game in a completely different league.

Re:With NSA survilance?

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you really think the NSA gives half a shit more about content owners than it does about us? They play a completely different game in a completely different league.

You mean like: "Why would the NSA track and read my Mails? There is nothing interesting in my Mails, I'm not criminal." You mean something like that? It would be unreasonable?

Think again!

Re:With NSA survilance?

[GameboyRMH]

If this were true they would have sent Seal Team Six after me instead of Bin Laden.

Re: With NSA survilance?

[Anonymous Coward]

yeah, wow. i know slashdot attracts the paranoid nutty crowd, but GP is absolutely bonkers.

Re: With NSA survilance?

[Anonymous Coward]

Right, tell that the guy who soon will probe your anus everytime you want to use a public transport or the guy next to hime with a MG pointing at you.

Re: With NSA survilance?

[Anonymous Coward]

lol, this guy is hilarious! Why is no one upvoting him?

Re:With NSA survilance?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, not like that at all. More like:

What is the difference between you and Beyonce to the NSA? Nothing. Everything about both of you is recorded if at all possible.

Re:With NSA survilance?

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem with prosecuting The Pirate Bay isn't in finding them. The NSA has that covered easily. The issue is finding a law and strategy to get them with for good.

Re:With NSA survilance?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, I'm shivering. Is there a torrent for 3D printed tinfoil?

Re:With NSA survilance?

[Mathinker]

> Think about it, since ThePirateBay exists the copy protection (DRM) went right into NSA survilance style

Uh, don't you think that a much more likely explanation is that the content cartel's reaction is merely a natural one caused by the "Emperor has no clothes" exposure by TPB that copyright is, given modern technology, not enforceable in any practical fashion without trampling over all kinds of rights which people cherish (and yes, here we have the real overlap with the NSA situation).

Where there's a will, there's a way

[Anonymous Coward]

Demand keeps it in existence.

Really, I don't agree with copyright infringement in all cases, but why should I have to pay for cable AND HBO just to watch Game of Thrones?

Piracy only exists because the content providers are being idiots, when you get right down to it. Give people what they want, when they want it, for a fair price and without any gimmicks, and you'll find the vast majority will gladly pay to consume.

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[Seumas]

Demand? Really? I can't imagine there's still much demand for Pirate Bay. Wasn't there that whole thing where they sold themselves to another company and then the torrent stuff was shut down and so they went to work on the whole "opentorrents" tracker type stuff but then they were either never sold or were sold, but the torrent stuff was not actually shut down and and and and and and....

Pirate Bay is a thing that I sometimes remember actually exists, but that has not really been relevant in at least five or six years.

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[Anonymous Coward]

Really, I don't agree with copyright infringement in all cases, but why should I have to pay for cable AND HBO just to watch Game of Thrones?

It's called being an adult. It means you don't get your way 100 percent of the time, and sometimes when you don't, it seems arbitrary and unfair.

But go ahead and stay in middle school in your head if you want.

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[Anonymous Coward]

I just got Solidworks, for free. I also just got They Live, The Maxx, Cubase VST, Microsoft Office, and Prince's groundbreaking concept album Sign 'O' the Times video.

Does the fact that many of those fully-functional versions are a couple versions behind the latest make them any less useful? Fuck no. Does the fact that you can find the oldest, most obscure movies and music impossible to buy mean nothing just because they were recorded before I was born? Fuck no. Does the fact that you may think my taste in music and movies sucks make that music and those movies any less enjoyable to me?! FUCK NO!

--Ethanol-fueled

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[Smallpond]

Demand keeps it in existence.

Really, I don't agree with copyright infringement in all cases, but why should I have to pay for cable AND HBO just to watch Game of Thrones?

Because it costs over $1M dollars per episode to produce it. So if you want something to watch that's better than Sharknado then somebody needs to be paying for it. That said, anything more than 28 years old is out of copyright according to the original Constitution, so I have a hard time understanding why it still has 70 years or so of restrictions.

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[geminidomino]

Then let us pay for it, without paying for the other 99.99% of the shit we don't want.

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[Guy Harris]

anything more than 28 years old is out of copyright according to the original Constitution

The United States Constitution said, and still says, only

Section. 8.

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow Money on the credit of the United States;

...

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

The original Copyright Act of 1790 was what granted a 14-year copyright with a 14-year extension if the author was still alive.

so I have a hard time understanding why it still has 70 years or so of restrictions.

Because the US Congress passed new laws and either 1) nobody's ever taken a case to the US Supreme Court to see whether 70 years counts as "limited" or 2) they did and the Supreme Court said "hey, it's not infinite, so it's still "limited"" or something such as that.

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[cheekyjohnson]

It's called being an adult. It means you don't get your way 100 percent of the time, and sometimes when you don't, it seems arbitrary and unfair.

Does that not apply to you and the content providers as well? They're not getting their way; people are simply getting the content from elsewhere and disobeying their arbitrary and 'unfair' rules. Content providers must be at the level of middle school students, huh?

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[Clsid]

Does the fact that you are stealing stuff matter at all? There are free GPL alternatives to Microsoft Office. You tell me how are software companies, writers, filmmakers or artists going to survive if everybody copies their stuff for free. Sure there are some industries that are full of crooks but that does not give you the right to become a crook yourself. In China it is so utterly pointless to make people pay for software that the companies developing apps for Android focus on creating addictive games with in-app purchases or making deals with the telcos or manufacturers and their respective app stores. Don't expect to see too many AutoCADs coming out from that model.

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[Clsid]

Because not watching Game of Thrones is a life threatening situation...

When you see something you consider a rip-off you simply just don't buy it, even if it is a good thing. Porsches are awfully overpriced, and that does not give me the right to go and steal one from the nearest dealer. Besides, it's not like you cannot get the episodes from iTunes, or just wait until the whole thing comes out in Blu-ray, DVD.

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[jamstar7]

Um, no. Copyright in the US is effectively eternal now. Currently, it's life of the artist plus something like 70 years, or practically forever if the copyright is held by a corporation.

The 'Birthday Song' believe it or not is still under copyright, and the copyright holders are vicious about litigating for singing that damned song in any place that a listening public might hear, including movies, TV shows, plays, and concerts.

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[dugancent]

You already have that option. Buy it on iTunes or Amazon.

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[Anonymous Coward]

As someone who hates the birthday song, I consider that to be a good thing.

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[cheekyjohnson]

When you see something you consider a rip-off you simply just don't buy it, even if it is a good thing.

You know that's not what's going to happen. If people consider official channels a rip-off and they're capable of downloading the content for free, some of them will; no amount of insults or ordering them around will change that.

Porsches are awfully overpriced, and that does not give me the right to go and steal one from the nearest dealer.

Fortunately, you don't have to physically remove anything from someone else's possession when you make a copy of something; that's the magic of copying!

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[Stoutlimb]

Because Game of Thrones is trying (somewhat successfully) to worm it's way into our culture. Once something is a part of our culture, in some ways it belongs to everyone. Seeing all the illegal downloads shows me that people value access to their culture far more than they value obeying some antiquated and corrupt laws.

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[geminidomino]

Except when you don't, which is the point.

Regional limitations? Not on iTunes and/or Amazon, or held back for weeks/months? Edited from original (SyFy does this to DW)?

All of these obstacles exist. Commonly.

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[jamstar7]

I get a lot of 'offshore content' from TPB. Stuff you just cannot get here in the States by any other means, legal or otherwise. I like a lot of Brit tv shows that aren't shown on PBS or BBCA. Likewise, I got hooked on some Australian TV shows as well as a couple South African shows. You just can't get them here in the States.

Canadian tv is available up by the border, but not down here in the desert. And my sat dish company won't sell me any Canadian content. The rat bastards.

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[Anonymous Coward]

But if I had a house-sized 3-D printer and the blueprint, I wouldn't feel bad about printing out one a porche of my very own. An idea, blueprint, recipe etc. is not worn out or consumed when used and never limits the production of a good, it is thus not properly and economic good. The is no natural contention of ideas, and copying one is not stealing. When I copy something of yours, it is still yours. To call it stealing is it just to attempt to give it the same name as an act which is morally lacking, in order to avoid a serious and rational conversation about the topic.

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[Mashiki]

You already have that option. Buy it on iTunes or Amazon.

Hahaha...
HAHAHAHAHA....

Yeah, try that from oh say Canada, or really any European country.

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[Scarletdown]

Then let us pay for it, without paying for the other 99.99% of the shit we don't want.

Since I don't have HBO, and don't even have cable, and didn't want to wait for it to come up on NetFlix, I solved that problem by purchasing the first season at Best Buy.

Still haven't finished it though, due to getting busy with so many other things. Last episode watched was the one right before Visrys (or however his name is spelled) was to be crowned.

Having read the book back in 2005 or 2006, I know full well what is coming, and I am hoping they made the scene as cringeworthy as it was described in the book.

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[Redmancometh]

I hope you got logo press w your solidworks.

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[stymy]

It's a crazy risky business model to take a "build it and they will come" approach to things. The reason HBO can make such big gambles on new series is because they have such a steady revenue stream. If they thought they'd make more money just selling stuff directly online they'd do it.

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[Anonymous Coward]

Because it costs over $1M dollars per episode to produce it.

Oh look, Hollywood accounting. And even before that insane, orders-of-magnitude inefficiencies that is the duty of every person to give the finger to.

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[Mathinker]

> Don't expect to see too many AutoCADs coming out from that model.

Somehow, I think you are short sighted. Especially since what AutoCAD has most to worry about isn't some lone FOSS developer waking up one morning and managing to produce, single-handedly, the FOSS equivalent --- it is much more likely that some commercial startup will make a good try at competing with AutoCAD, fail, and the likes of Google (or more probably, General Motors --- or even, in this day and age, crowd-funding by the maker community!) will decide to buy that startup's product and release it open-source, and possibly even continue to (partially) back its development (because they're tired of paying through the kazoo for AutoCAD, over and over again, and think this a good investment which could drive CAD software prices down).

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[Mathinker]

> and the copyright holders are vicious about litigating

No. You really, really don't understand something here. The reality is that the (putative) copyright holders are vicious about threatening to litigate. They really, really, don't want to litigate, because just one decision against them would erase all future income (and many legal scholars believe that their case is weak).

I was in a Friday's restaurant not too long ago, and they (gasp!) sang "that song". I discussed it with one of the workers, and he told me that there had been a real discussion and research done and they came to the conclusion that it was probably OK.

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[Mathinker]

> Because not watching Game of Thrones is a life threatening situation...

Some people believe that the extremely long term and onerous punishments which copyright inflicts on our society are life threatening to our culture.

Secondly, what TPB has succeeded in doing is showing the world that it is a practical impossibility to enforce copyright. When you add this to Bill Gates' candid confession that even if Microsoft had a magic genie which could totally prevent piracy of Windows in China, they wouldn't use it, you could interpret (wrongly, I know) your utterance as concerning (somehow totally enforced) copyright as being life threatening to the relative popularity of Game of Thrones.

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[Anonymous Coward]

The cost of making a new copy of the latest model Porsche is very nonzero. But thanks for playing.

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[Ragzouken]

Actually being an adult means you are free to make the call about whether you can have your own way or not - it's children who must be blindly obedient to their parents.

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[Anonymous Coward]

Demand? Really? I can't imagine there's still much demand for Pirate Bay. Wasn't there that whole thing where they sold themselves to another company and then the torrent stuff was shut down and so they went to work on the whole "opentorrents" tracker type stuff but then they were either never sold or were sold, but the torrent stuff was not actually shut down and and and and and and....

No, that was all just FUD.

It never happened and Pirate Bay was never even involved in it. All that "information" came from other sources and was as far as I know never commented on by Pirate Bay.
Slashdot picked it up as a news story though, but if you rely on slashdot subjects as a news source you might as well start listening to Fox news too.

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[Anonymous Coward]

That is true, but it is probably more expensive in the end, since then you have to move to the U.S. first. Anyway, it is not a sacrifice many people are willing to make.

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[Anonymous Coward]

You tell me how are software companies, writers, filmmakers or artists going to survive if everybody copies their stuff for free.

The same way that the makers of free and/or open source content survive...modestly.

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[jamstar7]

'Probably OK' isn't OK. If the copyright holders find out, expect nasty letters from l*wy*rs.

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[geminidomino]

That works fine with Game of Thrones, since you've read the books already. That's the same way I decided I wasn't really into the show.

But what if you hadn't known what was coming? It was still months after airing that the DVDs showed up for sale. Would it still have been worth buying them if you weren't already aware of that certain event in Clash of Kings, which spread like an unavoidable memetic wildfire starting the moment it aired?

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[Anonymous Coward]

Does the fact that you are stealing stuff matter at all? There are free GPL alternatives to Microsoft Office. You tell me how are software companies, writers, filmmakers or artists going to survive if everybody copies their stuff for free

But Mike Masick says that when you an infinite good, then MC is zero and so price has to be zero too! And anyway, there were lots of starving musicians even before the Internet and it was all because of the record companies and their fat, greedy executives. Obviously, you haven't been reading Techdirt.

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[Mathinker]

Correct. My understanding was that the conclusion that they came to was that if they just ignored the letters, it was unlikely anything would happen (as I have hinted in my previous post in this thread).

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[b4dc0d3r]

The latter, and Lessig explains it well. http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/March-April-2004/story_lessig_marapr04.msp

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[Scarletdown]

That works fine with Game of Thrones, since you've read the books already. That's the same way I decided I wasn't really into the show.

But what if you hadn't known what was coming? It was still months after airing that the DVDs showed up for sale. Would it still have been worth buying them if you weren't already aware of that certain event in Clash of Kings, which spread like an unavoidable memetic wildfire starting the moment it aired?

Had I not already been familiar with the series, then I probably would have either checked out a few clips on YouTube first, or waited until I could rent the first couple discs through Netflix before buying the set.

And so far, as far as the books go, I have still only read A Game of Thrones and A Storm of Swords, and have done well at avoiding any spoilers. So thank you for so gracefully not revealing that certain event in A Clash of Kings.

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[Smallpond]

Actually, it's life of author + 70 years, so there is NO limit. I'm just waiting for publishers to start requiring tissue samples from authors so that they can keep them alive in a lab.

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[geminidomino]

Had I not already been familiar with the series, then I probably would have either checked out a few clips on YouTube first, or waited until I could rent the first couple discs through Netflix before buying the set.

Except that brings us back to the original point: if you can't buy them, you usually can't rent them.

And so far, as far as the books go, I have still only read A Game of Thrones and A Storm of Swords, and have done well at avoiding any spoilers. So thank you for so gracefully not revealing that certain event in A Clash of Kings.

A Clash of Kings was the second book, between A Game of Thrones and A Storm of Swords.

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[Scarletdown]

You're right. Gray moment for me there. But it has been a long long long time since I read the second one. not remembering what the big spoiler is that happens in the second one then. Thought it had something to do with something really serious that happened to Ned Stark, but that was in A Game of Thrones. Ah well, guess I should at least skim through the first two again for a refresher before reading the third after all.

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[tlhIngan]

Except when you don't, which is the point.

Regional limitations? Not on iTunes and/or Amazon, or held back for weeks/months? Edited from original (SyFy does this to DW)?

Except for the last point - so what if it's delayed? Is there some law that states you have to get it in your preferred form the day it's released?

Or consider it this way - if you want it the day of, you pay "first mover" prices - cable+HBO. It's the same as in technology - the latest and greatest that comes out is the most expensive. A few months later, it's in the bargain bin. Likewise, if you don't want to pay for cable+HBO prices, you can wait for iTunes or Amazon or the DVD/Blu-Ray to release a cheaper version of it.

Just like I'm not entitled to get a SGS4 at "free with contract" even though in a few months, that'll be possible.

Or like I can demand the people working on Linux to implement my pet feature for free quicker.

Yeah, try that from oh say Canada, or really any European country.

Canada's iTunes gets Game of Thrones. Amazon's reluctance to get into Canada is more about business case than anything (face it - Amazon.ca prices suck - I can find it cheaper at my local B&M store).

As does Europe and Asia. In fact, I think Australia gets GoT on iTunes earlier than in the US - they had several season 3 episodes last I checked a few months ago.

And if you're complaining about the Apple monopoly - perhaps it's time to ask why Apple dared enter in the Canadian market and no one else has.

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[geminidomino]

Except for the last point - so what if it's delayed?

If it's going to be spoiled 3 months before you even have the opportunity to see it, it makes a strong case for many people not to bother.

The point your missing (or deliberately ignoring) is not about trying to justify unauthorized downloading. It's about a valuable business case being not only deliberately ignored, but, in many cases, explicitly denounced by a luddite industry.

Canada's iTunes gets Game of Thrones.

GoT is only one example. There's plenty they don't get, and it goes in all directions. There's some good stuff in the UK that might, just might, come to the US on DVD 1-2 years later, if we're lucky (and not just BBC programming stuff).

Is there some law that states you have to get it in your preferred form the day it's released?

Re:Where there's a will, there's a way

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't have to. I live in a real country.

Mixed bag with Pirate Bay

[Anonymous Coward]

On the one hand their users provide access to good content that is easy to use and DRM free. I can download a file of a film and watch it on my PC and PS3 with ease. Same thing with having a neatly organized audio book to download rather than me having to spend hours ripping and categorizing two-dozen CDs. I buy almost everything that I watch but the ability to watch a Blu-Ray off of a hard drive and not have to constantly swap discs is great.

On the other hand ThePirateBay makes tons of money off of other artists' content. They have enough money off of the backs of other peoples' work to run for office, buy houses, and rent high-end servers. They have often had the site compromised by viruses and malware. Regularly accepting advertisements from places that have literally nothing but trojan horses, scam anti-virus, and other malware. And they are using other artists' works to make a political statement that most artists likely don't agree with. It's wrong when a politician campaigns with someone's song without permission yet The Pirate Bay uses artists' work without permission to promote TPB's cause.

When an artist provides a low cost and DRM free piece of work it is immediately thrown onto the PirateBay. The argument of 'free advertising' is null and void because artists have their own websites, YouTube, SoundCloud, and many other options. It's tough to say "look at the free exposure that Game of Thrones gets on the TPB" when literally everyone has heard of the show. There are entire square blocks and subway cars in NYC that are themed after the show. I don't think HBO needs help with word-of-mouth spreading of Game of Thrones.

And don't give me the "well I can't get HBO in my country" argument. If that was the case with piracy then why are there so many DVD and Blu-Ray rip torrents? Are all of those people just getting a backup copy?

Re:Mixed bag with Pirate Bay

[Anonymous Coward]

And don't give me the "well I can't get HBO in my country" argument. If that was the case with piracy then why are there so many DVD and Blu-Ray rip torrents? Are all of those people just getting a backup copy?

Yeah... and for the NSA, don't give me that BS that you're only making a 'backup copy' of my emails and web traffic, I'm pretty sure that stealing my *private* content for the NSA to use and share with their other "friends" in the intelligence services is piracy, and they should be shut down and taken to court over it.

Re:Mixed bag with Pirate Bay

[epyT-R]

Enough false scarcity. If you can't make money you want, it's time to change your business model. The barons and their whore politicians they buy their fake scarcity from are far worse for society than pirates. It's not like these people aren't still making money hand over fist. If they weren't, piracy would've killed it off a long time ago.

Re:Mixed bag with Pirate Bay

[rHBa]

They have often had the site compromised by viruses and malware. Regularly accepting advertisements from places that have literally nothing but trojan horses, scam anti-virus, and other malware.

Citation needed! Not saying you're wrong, just that it's news to me and I'd like to know more about it.

It's tough to say "look at the free exposure that Game of Thrones gets on the TPB" when literally everyone has heard of the show.

I'd never heard of Under The Dome until yesterday when I heard about CBS's SNAFU, but then I'm not living in the USA.

When you make comments about TPB please remember it's an INTERNATIONAL website for people ALL OVER THE WORLD!!! If CBS (and the rest) want to go by their out-dated business model that relies on the control of media internationally then they're always going to be flogging a dead horse. News spreads about TV series and movies across the globe more quickly than they are prepared to release it which is their mistake and will cost them.

Re:Mixed bag with Pirate Bay

[Anonymous Coward]

On the other hand ThePirateBay makes tons of money off of other artists' content.

As far as I know, they just make money off of advertisements; they do not sell content directly.

Re:Mixed bag with Pirate Bay

[NoMaster]

And don't give me the "well I can't get HBO in my country" argument. If that was the case with piracy then why are there so many DVD and Blu-Ray rip torrents?

Because I can't get HBO in my country, I (usually) can't buy the DVD or Blu-Ray locally until something has been on cable or broadcast here (which often means "years" or "never"), and major online retailers in the US are so cowed by the studios and production companies that they almost always refuse to ship DVD/Blu-Ray outside of the US?

Re:Mixed bag with Pirate Bay

[jopsen]

I agree...

and major online retailers in the US are so cowed by the studios and production companies that they almost always refuse to ship DVD/Blu-Ray outside of the US?

Not to mention the fact that if you buy dvds from the US, you'll have to deal with region codes... For blu-ray etc.. I guess it's much worse...
I bought a tv series on DVD from Amazon US once, years ago... Ended up paying 50 USD extra in taxes, 30 USD extra in tax processing fee, and then had to bother with DVD region codes to get it working.
I'm not making that mistake again...

To further support that argument... Recent data shows that when netflix came to my country piracy fell... netflix is still more expensive that the US counter part, and only features a few hundrede movies...
So yes, the availability argument does hold. I have almost stopped pirating since streaming services, although still very poor have been readily available in my country...

Now, if there was better availability and no DRM, piracy would fall significantly...

Re:Mixed bag with Pirate Bay

[aliquis]

Nah.

They make the money of ads.

Also why should they run all those things for free? Do or would you?

Re:Mixed bag with Pirate Bay

[aliquis]

.. also how much money do banks make of others work now again? ..

How much money do politicans do while telling others how to work? :D

Re:Mixed bag with Pirate Bay

[Clsid]

Yeah, it is very hard to get overseas

http://www.amazon.com/Under-Dome-Mike-Vogel/dp/B00DII0MGI/ref=sr_1_1?s=movies-tv&ie=UTF8&qid=1376101462&sr=1-1&keywords=under+the+dome

Now if you just want it immediately, tough luck. I would like to see a couple of shows from France and the UK as well, not to mention the new Stephen Chow movie that came out in China in February. So I would just go and pirate those as well?

Re:Mixed bag with Pirate Bay

[Anonymous Coward]

I truly wish it was enough to kill the intellectual property industry (especially games and movies). It would be nice to think that piracy could bring about a new golden age of gaming when something (anything else) replaces our existing mess.

I don't pirate because I still believe it can kill the industry, though, but because I'm too spiteful to join them just because they can no longer be beaten. I would rather pay $100 dollars to play a game than give a single cent to a fucking producer for a value-less copy.

Re:Mixed bag with Pirate Bay

[Anonymous Coward]

> If you can't make money you want, it's time to change your business model.

We are. Why do you think a hell of a lot games have an online component now? Pretty soon there won't be any AAA games left for you to steal, loser boy.

Re:Mixed bag with Pirate Bay

[Anonymous Coward]

The only losers are the ones 'buying' such locked down software in the first place. Have fun with your unmoddable, locked down, overpriced DLC rubbish.

Re:Mixed bag with Pirate Bay

[epyT-R]

Maybe games sold this way should be required have customers sign lease contracts..because that's what they're really doing.. Offering the games as a 'sale' is, or should be considered, fraudulent. Then you could see how much you can overprice them when people truly realize they're not buying to own...

If you are making money hand over fist like I said, then what are you complaining about (besides your ego crying over the loss of total control)?

Re:Mixed bag with Pirate Bay

[Mathinker]

> Pretty soon there won't be any AAA games left for you to steal, loser boy.

I didn't quite understand this. Did you mean that piracy will cause the (current) AAA game producers to go out of business? Or did you mean that DRM-filled-up-the-wazoo games shouldn't be considered "AAA" anymore?

Besides which, which reality do you live in? Last time I checked, all (or at least most) of the DRM-via-online attempts for (really popular) games got cracked in short order (except, of course, things which are more or less totally online play).

Re:Mixed bag with Pirate Bay

[Mathinker]

> So I would just go and pirate those as well?

Frankly, I think you'd be amazed at the number of people who do just that, and buy the product afterwards (or, possibly, before --- if we're talking about books vs. ebooks). Could you give us your opinion about that kind of behavior, and why you would never consider doing that (I'm assuming, of course, you're intelligent enough to have thought of that idea, yourself)?

Re:Mixed bag with Pirate Bay

[Zontar The Mindless]

In the case of the Stephen Chow movie, you can probably watch it for free on PPTV, along with anything else that's available on Chinese TV (including lots of US/UK programming with Chinese subtitles).

The only catch being that you'll need to learn to read enough Chinese to navigate the UI. ;)

Re:Mixed bag with Pirate Bay

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah yes, region codes--TPB's best friend!

Re:Mixed bag with Pirate Bay

[Ragzouken]

reality check: there already exist more quality pirateable games than any single person could ever play in their lifetime.

Re:Mixed bag with Pirate Bay

[IamTheRealMike]

Piracy has killed things off. You don't think it has because it's so difficult to measure what would have been created but now wasn't. But take a look at the rise and fall of the music industry in terms of sales. They plummet right around the time broadband internet and MP3 became widespread after rising for many years. The rise in digital sales did not nearly offset the fall in other kinds of sales. You think that's a giant co-incidence?

It isn't and that's so obvious that even the Economist has said "the internet sank the music business". See the article for a graph of sales broken down by physical/digital. Digital sales rose but overall sales are still just over half what they were in 1999. Did people somehow lose interest in music and halve their consumption? No, of course not. People still listen to just as much music as they did back then, probably much more. The difference now is they don't pay for it.

Re:Mixed bag with Pirate Bay

[serviscope_minor]

"the internet sank the music business".

The title is not, however, "Piracy sank the music business".

There's a strong argument that in 1999 the music companies had effectively a monopoly (cartel) stranglehold on the industry. That leads to gouging and vast profits. The inernet broke that strangle hold and that is a good thing.

Now I can easily buy music a-la-cart from a variety of places and play it on any device. I can access obscure bands. I can stream internet radio. In every measurable way except record company profits, the music industry has improved since 1999.

The title should be:

The internet sunk the record label gouging.

There's actually a strong argument that piracy was the root cause, even thought there is now plenty of money to be made. Because what piracy offered was easy access to a better product. Money was made when the industry finally realised it was time to adapt or die and decided to offer a better product than the pirates for money.

They did.

You can now buy DRM free music files online from a huge, well curated and ordered catalogue, at a decent quality with cover art and all the right ID3 tags in place. That is a *better* product than simply downloading it of TPB and worth the money.

Or, you can stream all sorts of internet radio. That is another better product---it's a service which TPB is unlikely to ever offer.

Again, the only thing hurt has been the middle man cartel.

Re:Mixed bag with Pirate Bay

[Anonymous Coward]

On the other hand ThePirateBay makes tons of money off of other artists' content.

[citation needed]

Happy birthday Pirate Bay

[Anonymous Coward]

Think I'll go download a camrip of Elysium tonight to watch over dinner.

Re:Happy birthday Pirate Bay

[clarkkent09]

Not worth it, even for free.

Re:Happy birthday Pirate Bay

[jamstar7]

Naw. Wait a couple months and download the DVD rip. Better quality.

Yarr pirate power!!!

[GameboyRMH]

10 years plundering the cyber seas, drink hearty ye scurvy dogs!

You are like Jack Sparrow...

[Anonymous Coward]

Always in trouble, always finds a way out...

LONG LIVE PB! ~ we do really love you, sometimes mode than our wives.

Grammer

[Anonymous Coward]

to old for that too.

Thepiratebay.sx fills a needed nitch

[Trax3001BBS]

I like a place I can download stuff I read about on /. the http://thepiratebay.sx/ fills that need.

Like when Aaron Swartz uploaded JSTOR http://science.slashdot.org/story/11/07/22/2254204/release-of-33gib-of-scientific-publications 35 gigs of some of the driest stuff I've read, but I was able to.

Only click on the magnetic links, anything else is... well different.
Secondary link http://thepiratebay.sx/torrent/6554331 not as "funny looking" as the link in the /. article (which is still good).

Re:Thepiratebay.sx fills a needed nitch

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=nitch

close!

Happy Birthday!

[Anonymous Coward]

You've all done really well to make it this far.

Here's to a great site and a group of exceptional human beings, *downs wine*.

50 mBTC sent.

Re:Happy Birthday!

[wbr1]

Yo ho ho, anybody got any rum?

No, because no one is seeding thr rum torrent. Filthy leeches. Seed pls.

Re:Happy Birthday!

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure I'll seed my rum download..

Unzips fly.

Happy Birthday!

[mcgrew]

Yo ho ho, anybody got any rum?

You steal a customer.

[Anonymous Coward]

You!

The very definition of Youth

[Anonymous Coward]

Thinking you'll be "too old for this shit" in only ten years. (Corollary: thinking only ten years is a long period of time.)

All of our ships

[fustakrakich]

must sail in the same direction...

Re:All of our ships

[Zontar The Mindless]

We all must sail together, or we'll all sail separately!

Good for Publicity

[Anonymous Coward]

Now the pirate bay can refer to all of the actions against them as "against a ten year old".

Daaaamn

[Anonymous Coward]

They sent Bin Laden after you?