Slashdot Mirror
Ask Slashdot: Best/Newest Hardware Without "Trusted Computing"?
An anonymous reader writes "What is the best/newest hardware without trusted computing (TC) / Trusted Platform Module(TPM)? I am currently running ancient 32-bit hardware and thinking about an upgrade to something x64 with USB3, SATA3 and >1 core on the CPU ... but don't want TC/TPM. I have no need to run anything like Blu Ray movie disks or Microsoft Windows that requires TC/TPM or the UEFI boot process. Is anybody else still trying to avoid TC/TPM? What have your experiences been? Any pointers?" Worth reading on this front, too: Richard Stallman on so-called Trusted Computing,.
I have no need to run anything like Blu Ray movie disks or Microsoft Windows that requires TC/TPM or the UEFI boot process.
Non sequitur much? What do Blu-Ray movies have to do with a TPM or UEFI secure boot? Also, Windows 8 can be run just fine without UEFI secure boot and doesn't need a TPM. UEFI secure boot is only needed to sell a certified product. Trying to drum up some FUD or what?
None of the consumer grade machines that you would buy or build for installing your own system enforce TPM or UEFI or any of that, so far it is all optional. So no need to currently avoid it, just don't use it.
I don't see a problem with it, unless it can't be disabled. If you want all the freedoms, one of those freedoms is to enable or disable a TPM when you want. Maybe the only reason you want a TPM is so you can have one to test ways to circumvent it.
Just buy it with TPM and turn it off. It's just like 3D televisions--it's a permanent addition to the feature list, regardless of how many people actually want or use it. Yeah it sucks that you pay for stuff you don't use. I'm sure you'll survive the experience.
And if you're paranoid that turning it off won't REALLY turn it off, how do you know a motherboard without a TPM module doesn't REALLY have a super-secret disguised TPM module? If you're that paranoid, you'll have to build the motherboard yourself.
TPM is just a secure hardware keystore. It allows you to store secret keys in it. Don't want it? Don't activate it.
It is most commonly used in corporate machines, but can be used in Linux to support LUKS for full-disk encryption.
As usual, people fear what they don't understand. The trick to TPM is *WHO HAS THE KEYS*. If *I* have the keys, it is a great feature. TPM itself isn't inherently bad any more than any safe is inherently bad.
Stallman's piece focuses exclusively on TPM being implemented as a mandated piece where either the gov't or the media industry has the keys. Focusing on one theoretical use case and determining the entire system is evil is just plain wrong.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
I am currently running ancient 32-bit hardware and thinking about an upgrade to something x64 with USB3, SATA3 and >1 core on the CPU ... but don't want TC/TPM.
You want to buy a high performance x86 motherboard which for some unfathomable reasons lacks features that have become more or less standard in both the consumer PC and the enterprise markets like UEFI and are not going away any time soon. Good luck with that,
Yawn. Obsolescence built in, with each OSX "upgrade" Apple drop support for a whole generation of hardware. Quad core xeons are now in limbo. Yes, that standard Intel and PCI system is already at a dead end. When the next cat OS is released with a slightly changed icon set, the next top end systems will be excluded.
And as for imacs, zero upgradability other than RAM and high failure rates, also suffer from OSX obsolescence.
So, no, don't go down the Apple route unless you intend to replace the whole system to stay current, even if it doesn't need it.
Stallman is never "worth reading".
Are you seriously trying to talk sense to AC? Do I have to revoke your cred...? Don't make me give you this talk again! :)
No, it's you missing something.
just don't buy the module.
THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT HE'S TRYING TO DO.
A lot of computers are now being shipped with TPM's SOLDERED onto the motherboard, and they are making progressing on packaging the TPM inside the CPU chip.
He doesn't want to buy that crap, I don't want to buy that crap, and the problem is that a lot of people are buying that crap without knowing it. The Trusted Computing Group has stated that part of their strategy for forcing everyone to buy into their Trusted Computing crap is to ensure that TPMs are already built in to all new computers being sold.
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- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
Are you clueless? He's not "talking sense". The whole point here is that it's becoming increasingly difficult to not-buy a TPM. A lot of motherboards now have this shit welded in place, and its presence is often not listed when you're shopping to buy a computer.
An "Ask Slashdot" on how to avoid purchasing Trusted Computing is entirely appropriate. Hell, there should be a goddamn front page story in the New York Times telling people that many computers are being shipped with TPMs, and informing the general public where to shop if they don't want to fork over money for an anti-owner TMP chip pre-welded into whatever computer they buy.
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- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.
I must be getting old. I actually remember a time when /. had at least somewhat technically savvy people.
Om, nomnomnom...
Nobody cares that you can turn it off. It shouldn't be there in the first place. That's the point of the TPM-ranters, which you seem to be missing.
The big evil issue is not what it is today, but what it will (rest assured) soon become. When that day comes you can look back at your open embrace of TPM with a sad face and say "If I'd only known". We on the other hand will simply say "we told you so and you did nothing".
Good luck clawing back the computer freedom you gave up.
It doesn't have to be outside my control. It only has to be outside of my laptop's control, which is a crucial difference.
A TPM that came with my keys printed on a piece of paper, and which would allow me to replace the keys it uses would do just fine for what you say.