Slashdot Mirror


As AOL Prepares To Downsize Patch, CEO Fires Employee During Meeting

An anonymous reader writes "AOL is closing or plans to sell nearly half of the 900 'hyperlocal' news websites operated by its money-losing Patch Media subsidiary (TechCrunch is also owned by AOL). Hundreds of staff layoffs are believed to be imminent. AOL acquired Patch in 2009, soon after ex-Googler Tim Armstrong took over as CEO; Armstrong was also a co-founder of Patch. During a tough conference call last Thursday Armstrong told Patch editors: 'Something at Patch has been missing for some time and that's leadership – leadership with a capital L'. Armstrong then demonstrated his grasp of Donald Trump's management style by firing an employee during the meeting for taking a picture. At 1:18 of the NY Post's sound clip from Jim Romensko: 'Leaking information Patch isn't going to bother me. I'm not changing direction'. At 2:00: 'Abel [Creative Director Lenz], put that camera down. Abel, you're fired. Out.' Armstrong later explained that 'The reason I fired Abel is I don't want anyone taking pictures of this meeting' and that, much like a sports team, AOL couldn't afford to have people 'giving the game plan away'."

40 of 248 comments (clear)

  1. What a dick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I hope he is treated similarly

    1. Re:What a dick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      "similarly" has four syllables. Not that you can count that high.

    2. Re:What a dick by Lisias · · Score: 3, Informative

      The one that's used to make record of all meetings for the internal news site?

      A photo on a "strategical meeting" where no graphs or slides are being shown is not a strategic threat. However, I sound recording device is always a threat, and I'm pretty sure that at least one would be active at that time - you can bet your arse I would do it if a colleague of mine were fired that way for a probable grievance.

      In some countries, being firing someone this way is the best way to get a good indemnification for moral damages.

      --
      Lisias@Earth.SolarSystem.OrionArm.MilkyWay.Local.Virgo.Universe.org
    3. Re:What a dick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      It will be very exciting to watch this company disappear.

    4. Re:What a dick by girlintraining · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I hope he is treated similarly

      If I had stock in AOL, I'd be making the call to sell it all. Now. The reason is as old as humanity itself: True genius doesn't run around telling everyone "I'm a genius!" anymore than true sanity runs around saying "I'm the sanest one here!" If you're pointing out your virtues to others, you have none to speak of.

      Or, to quote the Tao Te Ching, "The best leaders go unnoticed by the people. The next best are loved and praised by the people. Then there are those who are feared by the people.
      Lastly there are those who are despised."

      Guess which one this guy is? He's a shit leader, to enamored with his own self-importance to be useful to an investor. Sell. Sell. Sell now. Sell.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    5. Re:What a dick by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually, this is the sort of love/hate behavior that Hollywood celebrities have with cameras. They love to flaunt their stuff in front of cameras . . . when invited to do so. But if you catch them not wearing their best makeup . . . they get violent. See tmz.com for examples . . . like Kayne West assaulting a cameraman in an airport.

      At any rate, I wouldn't want to work for a company that had a spoiled Hollywood baby as a CEO.

      Hey, if you are a big celebrity, and love the fame, deal with it.

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    6. Re:What a dick by Tough+Love · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If I had stock in AOL, I'd be making the call to sell it all.

      In fact, it looks like an attractive short. 100% runup over period of a year followed by flat for a year, followed by this outburst, certain to drive away whatever talent remains. P/E of 29, that's a little rich for a company with no realistic growth story and a baboon for a CEO. Hmmm.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    7. Re:What a dick by Tough+Love · · Score: 5, Funny

      Result of searching for "aol growth prospects" on finance.google.com:

      Your search - aol growth prospects - produced no matches.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    8. Re:What a dick by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No matter how badly AOL falls, the CEO will ride his golden parachute while the plebes below him get the shaft.

    9. Re:What a dick by VortexCortex · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There is a humble way and an arrogant way to point out ones own virtues. Since you are into philosophy I'll use an example of right speaking (from the Buddhist 8 way path). If someones life is on the line, and you are more competent than the person or people trying to save them, then it would be not only bad, but possibly deadly, not to point out your virtues. Pointing out your virtues is not in and of itself arrogant or egotistical. One can have true humility and still recognize their own strengths and share the knowledge of their existence with others.

      Speaking as a Scientist: That's bullshit. You see, Rational people realize that even the most wise can be foolish at times, and that even the ignorant irrational child has good suggestions sometimes. This is why we weigh the merit of the idea instead of the man. Screw your vitures, that's irrational BS, buddy.

      If the widely accepted wisest and most virtuous person told you to leap into a volcano, and you did so without evaluating the idea itself then you are a fool.

      So, If you think someone is about to make a terrible mistake and you have information that may change their mind -- eg: "The Yogi is Senile!" -- then give it to them even if you are a serial murderer and they a saint.

      It's the value of the message not the messenger that matters.

  2. To help AOL he should have fired himself! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm sure that meeting really helped staff morale!

    1. Re:To help AOL he should have fired himself! by Noughmad · · Score: 5, Funny

      The firings will continue until morale improves!

      --
      PlusFive Slashdot reader for Android. Can post comments.
    2. Re:To help AOL he should have fired himself! by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      He was probably the lucky one. Anyone with talent at that company is polishing their CV instead of working right now.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    3. Re:To help AOL he should have fired himself! by Mateorabi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The problem is that those most able to leave are the first to do so. The highest talent goes first, leaving the duds that would have a hard time conning a interviewer a second time in a row. Its a sorting process that doesn't pay off for the company.

      --
      "You saved 1968." - Ms. Valerie Pringle to the crew of Apollo 8

    4. Re:To help AOL he should have fired himself! by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The problem is that those most able to leave are the first to do so. The highest talent goes first, leaving the duds that would have a hard time conning a interviewer a second time in a row. Its a sorting process that doesn't pay off for the company.

      Interesting theory, but not quite the entire picture. I've been "last one out" in a company, not because I wasn't talented, but because I had a misguided feeling of responsibility to the other people involved -- the employees and the customers (and to some degree the shareholders). Would I do it again? Probably not. However, we made sure that the duds left first (and learned that duds often have impressive skills at getting hired). You see, people who aren't very good often hop from job to job, building up an impressive CV, and always leaving before people at the top realize they're all talk and no substance. These people usually stay at a company for 9 months to 2 years, and while there, latch on to some project that is already started and showing promise, often taking over from the high talent who got it started. They leave before they run the project all the way into the ground (or at least before anyone else realizes it) and are able to list the project as a "success" on their CV.

      THESE are the people who are toxic to the company as a whole; duds who just aren't very good (at their job, getting hired, etc) can still be used as effective resources, but the guys who actually play the confidence HR game can destroy a successful company before they realize what's happened.

      Just my 2 cents.

  3. He was the Creative Director by jebus187 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Was he not supposed to take pictures? He was the creative director; maybe he was just being creative.

    1. Re:He was the Creative Director by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Abel was taking the picture for the company blog. About a minute earlier in the conference call, Tim said:

      "
      I don’t care what the press says, I don’t care if people leak information. I’ve already lived through that at AOL [...]

      and again:

      "
      I also want to clear up the fact that leaking information or anything around Patch isn’t going to bother me, doesn’t bother me.

      then:

      "Put that camera down, Abel. You're fired. Get out."

      Every other excuse theory in this thread is shot down from by the facts of the recording.

    2. Re:He was the Creative Director by Tough+Love · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Normal behavior would be to ask the employee to stop the undesirable behavior, then if the behavior persists, disciplinary action could be taken, including termination if other remedies are exhausted. This CEO is an out of control psychopath and a hazard to the company. A lawsuit is inevitable.

      Here is a classic example of a career limiting explosion

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    3. Re:He was the Creative Director by hairyfeet · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Uhhh the CEO is a sociopath...this is news? Sadly MOST CEOs would fit the classic definition of a sociopath, just look up Steve Jobs history some time. The man was several times richer than Woz when they were starting out yet fucked Woz over on one of their very first deals and you can find example after example of similar behavior with just about every CEO of a large company, the current business climate not only encourages but seems to go out of its way to reward sociopath behavior, even when they seriously damage the company.

      And while I truly do hope he sues ultimately it won't touch the CEO as even if they were ordered to pay out millions over this and he destroys the company he'll just get a golden parachute and be pulling this shit at another company soon enough. It is truly mind boggling how these CEOs get paid like rock stars no matter how well or poorly they do, like barons and dukes they are a part of the upper crust and thus never seem to have to worry about the kind of things we peasants have to like doing a decent job, they'll make mountains of money no matter how badly they suck.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
  4. More accurately: by Bieeanda · · Score: 3, Insightful
    Dude left Google to hatch his own scheme.

    Dude stayed on after AOL bought his gimmick company.

    Dude lashed out because he's still stuck holding the bag.

    Not that the guy with the camera was being in any way professional, but if this guy wants to make sports analogies, his scull has split down the keel and he just tossed one of the rowers overboard.

    1. Re:More accurately: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Dude left Google to hatch his own scheme.

      Dude stayed on after AOL bought his gimmick company.

      Dude lashed out because he's still stuck holding the bag.

      Not that the guy with the camera was being in any way professional, but if this guy wants to make sports analogies, his scull has split down the keel and he just tossed one of the rowers overboard.

      Actually, he has a history of taking pictures of internal conference calls and posting them on the company Intranet. This wasn't an aberration - it was literally his thing. That he was fired for it puts the CEO in a bad light, not the camera operator.

    2. Re:More accurately: by Manfre · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Ran out of mod points, but your post adds some more insight in to the situation. Firing someone for doing what they normally do is a dick move, unless the camera guy was previously told not to do that.

    3. Re:More accurately: by Tough+Love · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Firing someone for doing what they normally do is a dick move...

      Firing someone in front of the entire company is an utra dick move that arguably puts the company on the wrong side of the law. Don't take my word for it, get some popcorn sit back for the lawsuit. I will go out on a limb here and predict that this asshole's days are numbered as a CEO.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    4. Re:More accurately: by gbjbaanb · · Score: 4, Insightful

      to be fair... he was previously told it was not a problem:

      said Armstrong earlier in the meeting:
      I also want to clear up the fact that leaking information or anything around Patch isn't going to bother me, doesn't bother me.

      Scott Adams, you have a new character ready made for the series.

    5. Re:More accurately: by Tom · · Score: 3, Informative

      Only in the USA...

      My country requires firings to be done in writing, with a signature, specifically to prevent stunts like this. As a matter of fact, a lot of countries have similar laws. In most of the civilized world, this termination would be legally null and void. In some countries, doing it this way would also bar you from following up with a legally correct termination.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    6. Re:More accurately: by Tom · · Score: 3, Interesting

      But why *should* we prevent "stunts like this"?

      Because it is detrimental to society to let the big ego psychopaths run the show. We could've stayed with anarchy if that's what we wanted. I think we've done fairly well with some more civilization, and not letting bullies get away with everything is a big part of that.

      I've been fired before, and it sucked, but I got over it.

      It's not about being fired, it's about how. There is, by now, extensive scientific literature about the benefits of delayed execution. The human mind is not a one-track machine, there are circuits for immediate reaction, and they don't include the circuits for actually thinking something through (because that takes too long in a life-or-death situation, where 5 seconds make the difference between having and being dinner).

      Forcing someone to put something in writing also slows him down so much that the "this might not be the best idea" circuits in his brain have time to kick in. Because especially in a situation like this, where the CEO does something in front of everyone, even if he thinks "that was dumb" seconds later, very, very few people are great enough to admit their mistake in front of everyone. Most CEOs will believe they need to prove they are strong by following it through.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  5. That's ridiculous by Voyager529 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    1.) you say you're missing leadership, yet you're worried that there's a game plan to give away?
    2.) someone takes a picture in the meeting, and you assume it's to upload the game plan to Instagram?
    3.) was there a stated rule against taking pictures? If not, you're firing someone for breaking a rule that wasn't stated? If so, is firing the man really the example you want to set for a first offense, instead of requiring that the image be deleted?
    4.) you're running a subsidiary of a company whose only asset is its name's association with the 1990's...and your subsidiary is losing money...and you're firing people during a meeting, as if that's going to help matters in the slightest?

    Who wants to bet that the next board meeting will involve some chair throwing antics?

  6. Game plan? by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ... "circle the drain" is not a game plan...

  7. This by The+Cat · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This shameless staged plag for AOL and associated media properties brought to you by the dumbasses who believe shameless staged events like this are real.

  8. So.. by bytesex · · Score: 4, Insightful

    there is no picture of that meeting. It was confidential and shit. But, apparently, audio totally A-ok. Is this a clown-company or something?

    --
    Religion is what happens when nature strikes and groupthink goes wrong.
  9. Patch is already dead by linuxwrangler · · Score: 5, Informative

    They killed it months ago. Now they are just dragging the corpse through the streets instead of giving it a proper burial.

    Last year there was an actual reporter posting actual news relevant to and about our town. Readers posted comments - sometimes hundreds on a single article. There were lively discussions about school issues, traffic safety and other local issues with generally one to three new articles every day.

    Then they announced "exciting upgrades." The look and feel of the site went from OK to awful. Our local reporter has been "reassigned to a regional area." The local news is an irregularly updated mish-mash of cut 'n' paste police blotter info posted well after it has already been available on Nixle, reposts from other news sources (and not very local), and "reporting" consisting of things like a brief listing of the city-council agenda followed by an "article" saying "Were you at the meeting? What are your comments?" And still they sometimes can't get any news posted for days. Really?

    They have added lots of "sponsored" Patch localities advertising Planes, Smurfs and the like.

    The "local" reporters are now, if you look at their profiles, all over the country and making errors in articles that just make them look like idiots to anyone actually living here. Reviews and articles about places that closed a year or two ago do not make for credibility.

    Much of the supposedly local news is just repackaged national stats. "How is unemployment in YourLocalTown compared to the rest of the country?" and the like. Other stuff is somewhat local looking blog stuff that turns out to be identical on all the sites.

    It's sad. The site used to be fun and interesting. Too bad they couldn't make it a successful business.

    --

    ~~~~~~~
    "You are not remembered for doing what is expected of you." - Atul Chitnis
    1. Re:Patch is already dead by dtobias · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Whenever any website announces an "exciting upgrade", it usually means they're in the process of screwing up whatever was good about the site before, in favor of whatever their pointy-haired bosses think will make a better business model.

      --
      --Dan
      Web Tips
  10. Leadership, and cultivating leadership by Beryllium+Sphere(tm) · · Score: 3, Informative

    Even the most primitive form of leadership starts with setting an example. An example of self-control makes the leadership more functional.

    A more advanced form is setting clear expectations and communicating them, for example by having a "no photos" rule. One person I read about enjoyed Marine boot camp because unlike his family, the rules were the same from one day to the next.

    Then comes raising new leaders, which is done by mentoring and assigning increasing responsibility. Intimidation creates followers, not leaders.

    If this incident is typical then as a leader I consider him a total loss with no insurance.

  11. Game Plan by dnaumov · · Score: 4, Insightful

    AOL couldn't afford to have people 'giving the game plan away

    This is amazing on so many levels. First of all, Abel was taking pictures for the company intranet blog. Like he did on the previous meeting and the meeting before that.
    Second: does Armstrong genuinely think there are people out there, outside of AOL, who actually give a shit what their "game plan" *IS*?

    1. Re:Game Plan by HeLLFiRe1151 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Ya, a lot of companies want to know what the "Patch game plan" is. They want to be sure never to follow it.

      --
      I've got 101 mod points and you can't have them!
  12. Re:Two idiots in a corp meeting by ohnocitizen · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "Move along. Nothing to see here" is even more condescending when its patently false. The whole story, not just that one incident, is one of a company in trouble and its inability to effectively navigate the downward spiral.

  13. Re: Two idiots in a corp meeting by Ly4 · · Score: 4, Informative

    From http://www.businessinsider.com/leaked-audio-listen-to-aol-ceo-tim-armstrong-fire-a-patch-employee-snapping-a-photo-2013-8 :

    We hear that Lenz, based in New York, would always take pictures of people talking on company-wide conference calls so that he could post them on Patch's internal news site.

  14. Patch was good and bad by istartedi · · Score: 3, Informative

    The good in Patch was that it put a few extra bucks in the pockets of somebody I know. It really was local, and seemed to be building genuine community. The bad was their e-mail alerts that were not timely or meaningful. I eventually turned them off. Alas, the web site itself just wasn't interesting enough to pull me in on a daily basis. I'm not sure why. The free dead-tree local papers continue to be my source for "the skinny" on stuff that's too local for the biggies (e.g., the bowling alley and the strip club being demolished to make way for condos, that kind of story).

    --
    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
  15. Re:Two idiots in a corp meeting by Tough+Love · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It's also a story about the kind of execs that Google nurtures. Another one is running yahoo. Funny that.

    --
    When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  16. Never just one cockroach by EmperorOfCanada · · Score: 5, Interesting

    In my experience there is never just one cockroach. This sort of short tempered thing is rarely done in the public eye. Even if the guy were an serial abuser he would still keep it hidden from the public. Thus I suspect that he fits a long pattern of CEOs who do this sort of public stress related nonsense only as they are cracking under unimaginable stress. Rarely this stress is caused by their own imminent firing as that is usually hidden from them until the trap door is sprung. This sort of stress is caused by really bad numbers. Numbers so bad there is just no spinning them. Numbers that not only say things are bad now, but numbers that say, there is no recovering from this. Normally these CEO types are able to delude themselves through screwing with the numbers but at a certain point the numbers are rotten no matter how much tempura you dip them in.

    I saw this just before Air Canada did their bankruptcy, I saw this before Nortel went busto, even Sun before its long hard slide started having upper management go a bit off.

    My favorite one was a tiny corner store when I was a kid. We went in and a friend of mine each had around $1.50 I paid for something but my friend asked how much a certain product was, The owner said, "$1.70" My friend said, "Oh that is 20 cents more than before" and put it back. The guy started screaming "Are you begrudging me 20 f*****g cents?" He then picked up a bat from behind the counter and chased my friend out of the store. The next day there was a big red notice on the door saying that the locks had been changed and that he could get back in his store when he paid the last 6 months rent.

    So when I see CEOs acting insanely I see that stressed-to-the-max store owner from all those years ago. So if I were playing the stock market I know I would bet hard against AOL.

    Or maybe the guy is a dick 24 hours a day and this just leaked out for the world to see. I'm betting.... both.