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Egyptian Security Forces Storm Pro-Morsi Camps Leaving Nearly 100 Dead
After weeks of protesting the ousting of Morsi (forming encampments in Cairo during that time), the Egyptian security forces forcibly broke up the protesters' camps early this morning. Things quickly turned violent, leaving around one hundred people dead, including at least two journalists. The interim President has also declared an indefinite state of emergency, "allowing security forces to arrest and detain civilians indefinitely without charge." The AP reports that clashes are not isolated to Cairo: "Dozens of people have been killed across Egypt Wednesday in clashes between security forces and supporters of Morsi."
Wall Street Journal:Nearly 100 dead.
USA Today: Nearly 100 dead
CNN: 95-200 dead
NBC: At least 95 dead
Fox News: Nearly 100 dead
But don't let reality get in the way of your bizarre conspiracy theory.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
I think it broke down a little before the army stepped in: (condensed from wikipedia entry on Morsi)
June 2012, election committee announces that Morsi has won the election
Nov. 2012 - Morsi temporarily grants himself unlimited power, including the power to legislate without judicial oversight or review
- hundreds of thousands of Egyptians took to the streets in the 2012 Egyptian protests
Dec 2012 - Morsi annuls his decree of unlimited power, but states that all the effects of his time as de-facto emperor will remain
June 30, 2013 - mass protests erupt calling for the presidents resignation after severe fuel shortages and electricity outages
- the army threatens to step in and build a roadmap for the country if protestors demands aren't met by July 3, while insisting they did not want to rule the country or intend for a military coup.
Morsi was declared unseated on 3 July 2013 by a council consisting of defence minister Abdul Fatah al-Sisi, opposition leader Mohamed ElBaradei, the Grand Imam of Al Azhar Ahmed el-Tayeb, and Coptic Pope Tawadros II
Can't say I've paid enough attention to Egypt since then to be able to say anything about how democracy is likely to fair going forward, but it certainly wasn't doing too well before the army stepped in.
--- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
No the majority of Americans voted for Gore
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The government. They're not saying it ISN'T a coup ... but there also not saying that is IS.
We have laws in this country that prevent us from sending financial aid to countries where a coup has occurred. So as long as the government doesn't actively admit what's going on, we can keep bribing people over there.
This signature is false.
We have done that zero times.
I am fairly certain that the US has not attempted to overturn every single democratically-elected government on the planet.
Are you deliberately fishing for comments or are you really that illusional? Pick for yourself the one that you like best:
Iran, 1953
Guatemala, 1954
Brazil, 1964
Chile, 1973
And that's just the ones that I can think of without digging too deeply.
Aside of that there are various "interventions" that are more or less known to be US based or US backed meddling, from Honduras, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Turkey and a few more where they actually didn't succeed. Yes, such a thing does happen, too.
So please don't tell me the US gives a shit about elections. If those elections turn out to be against their interests, the government is fair game.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I didn't say that the US has never attempted to overturn a democratically elected government. They have.
h4rr4r claimed that the US government has never allowed a democratically-elected government that we didn't approve of to stand. That's just ridiculous hyperbole.
Are you deliberately fishing for comments or are you really that illusional? Pick for yourself the one that you like best:
Iran, 1953 [wikipedia.org]
Guatemala, 1954 [wikipedia.org]
Brazil, 1964 [wikipedia.org]
Chile, 1973 [wikipedia.org]
And that's just the ones that I can think of without digging too deeply.
I believe the comment was US has not attempted to overturn every single democratically-elected government and not the U.S. has attempted to overturn zero democratically-elected governments.
Some? Yes. All? No.
There was little to no chance of Morsi becoming a dictator. The military ultimately has the power in Egypt and has for decades. That the ruler has been cozy with the military and therefore safe has been the general rule. Morsi was not only not cozy but aggressively tried to sideline the military which made him unpopular with both the military and the people.
It doesn't matter who runs Egypt in the next few years. They're going to be unpopular because Egypt's economy is in a shambles largely due to excessive subsidies. They export oil but import gasoline because they don't have sufficient refining capacity, making fuel subsidies extremely expensive to maintain. They don't grow near enough grain to feed the population and have to import it at international market prices while subsidizing it to an enormous degree.
The military wants to keep the power but doesn't want to be the public face of it. They also don't want anyone remotely friendly with the insurgents in the Sinai in power (effectively ruling out Salafist candidates), and know that most secularists stand zero chance of doing anything more than spoiling a vote. This leaves the Muslim Brotherhood and allied smaller parties, which isn't really possible right now because they're boycotting anything political.
But in the absence of an overthrow of the military establishment (everyone from captains up and even most of the junior officers), the military isn't going anywhere, nor do about half the people want them to. They're seen as the protectors of the state, such as it is.
You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
There was little to no chance of Morsi becoming a dictator.
Are you insane? Morsi fired the heads of the military and then declared himself and anything he did above the law.
He was trying to shift over all control of the military to himself, and also declared himself head of the courts and police...
He was utterly a dictator. Note that the military did not step in UNTIL the clear will of the people was evidenced in massive protests against Morsi - and even then the military gave Morsi a chance to back off the power grab, which he would not do.
What the military has done is protected democracy from a monster, and acted only on the will of a people. Someone like you would rather see Egypt fall into a thousand years of darkness as millions died, in order to protect something that was no longer there. Disgusting and utterly stupid.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
If you truly believe what you wrote you have no idea the steps Morsi was taking.
The brotherhood was inserting their members (who swear loyalty oaths to the leader) into every single government leadership position (including the ironic one of putting an Islamic leader responsible for the killing of tourists in charge of the main tourist area). In addition the brotherhood had begun inserting themselves into the military by insisting their members be appointed to ranking positions within the military.
The plan was to replace all the civil, democratic and military leadership with Brotherhood members. With a constitution that gave legal overrides to clerical leadership, all major positions dominated by brotherhood members and the upper military leadership in the hands of the military could you honestly say they didn't appear to be building a dictatorship under the guise of democracy?
Morsi and the brotherhood took over almost every civil institution and he had started the work of replacing the military leadership when the populace reached the point of no return and the multiple million people protests took place. The military leadership at that point had a public mandate to stop it.
Is it a coup? Yep. Did the people want it? Yea, almost everyone except for the 20% of the population that considers themselves Islamist. Can they form a working country without that 20%? I doubt it. Consensus and deal making is what will create a stable Egypt, until they realize that on both sides (military and Islamist) they won't go anywhere.
Revolutions are dirty slow things. The US revolution was super fast in that it only took a little more than a decade for a stable republic to start, and even then we had a civil war later because of unresolved issues the founders left for later generations to sort out. The French revolution was nearly 100 years of royalty, foreign invasion, emperors and failed republics before the modern French republic was birthed from the ashes. If Egypt can pull of a stable republic in 5 years they'll beat the odds. It's silly of anyone to think they are going to get it right on the first try.
It takes a long time for everyone to realize you can't sideline minorities and that everyones voice needs to be heard in government. The islamists sidelined the Christians and secularists. The Military is sidelining the Islamists. This will likely go back and forth a few times. Morsi outright lied in his campaign about what he would do. He couldn't win anything at this point because everyone knows the brotherhood will say anything to get elected.
I pity the Egyptians, without Tourism they can not survive financially, there will be bread riots at some point in the future and it's going to be bad. Starving people are very destructive.
Well, the US could have just not backed the sociopathic military that for example ruled my country for decades (Argentina) killing tens of thousands...
Or more in the new millenium, Venezuela, Honduras, etc....
I'm not saying the rest of the world is pure angelic blowjobs, the soviets did some awful stuff quite similar to what you did to us...
But that doesn't change the fact that your govt conspired with military groups to commit crimes against humanity. Over and over...
-- Counting backwards since 1984!
Uhm, Venezuela?
Like the country where the oposition was funded and coordinated from the US embassy?
Where they tried a coup, WHICH WAS RECOGNIZED AND PRAISED BY THE US like 5 minutes after they took (for a while) the presidential office?
Do we live in the same world?
-- Counting backwards since 1984!