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US, Germany To Enter No-Spying Agreement
itwbennett writes "The German Federal Intelligence Service said in a news release that the U.S. has verbally committed to enter into a no-spying agreement with Germany. The no-spying agreement talks were announced as part of a progress report on an eight-point program proposed by German Chancellor Angela Merkel in July with measures to better protect the privacy of German citizens. In the progress report, the German government found that U.S. intelligence services comply with German law. Also, the operators of large German Internet exchanges and the federal government did not find any evidence that the U.S. spies on Germans, the government said."
and no one will ever cheat.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Can I get a no-spying agreement with the U.S. government?
It's not like the US intelligence groups ever go beyond what laws allow, nor do they ever lie about such things...
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
How can I talk my country's leaders into negotiating such an agreement? Does anyone know who I can send a letter to? I live in the United States of America, sure such a bastion of freedom wouldn't allow spying on its citizens...
According to Wikipedia: "Espionage or spying involves a government or individual obtaining information considered secret or confidential without the permission of the holder of the information. Espionage is inherently clandestine, as it is taken for granted that it is unwelcome and, in many cases illegal and punishable by law." I think the operative word here is clandestine...
If at first you don't succeed, so much for skydiving.
Sure, can America not spy on Americans too?
That sure would be nice.
The UK will spy on Germany for you!
Did that agreement have a little smiley face on it near the end? Does anyone really expect the USA to be honest about their activities? This is more likely a coordinated display to show the US feels bad about being caught red-handed and now they can be trusted by the worldz again.
The UK will be next I'm sure... I don't know the lapdog priority in Europe though :P
Der Tod ist der einzige Weg hier raus!
I read this as a "spying exchange agreement". The US promises not to spy on Germans, and the Germans agree not to spy on Americans.
Instead, if the NSA wants spy data on German citizens, they'll metaphorically "extradite" data that the German government has collected on its citizens (and vice versa).
That would be my guess, anyway.
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Here's how I think this agreement will turn out.
1) If violated the president agree's to have his feet tickled profusely.
2) To avoid being caught the US allows UK to spy on Germany using our equipment which they hand over the info to us.
3) US asks the UK not to Spy on the US for this benefit
4) US asks Germany to Spy on UK for the US for our agreement not to spy on German
The US will just contract out the spying to a third party (or country, ally). No harm no foul. Money talks.
- "We're not spying on anyone, we promise."
- "Here's proof you were spying."
- "Oops. Well, we won't spy on anyone anymore, we promise."
I have no problem with the German government trying to spy on me. Why? Because the German government has no jurisdiction over me. German state security can't appear on my doorstep and arrest me, no matter how much Merkel or her minions may disapprove of me.
I do have a problem with the US government spying on me, because DHS and DEA can appear on my doorstep and make my life miserable if they don't like me or want to enrich themselves or find it useful for some other reason, circumventing the justice system and the rule of law.
Obama made restoring privacy and the rule of law a key point of his presidential bid, and it has turned out to be complete lies.
Germany, as the economic engine to the EU, certainly has the money to do the same, and don't think they won't. This will last only as long as its not inconvienient to each respective parrty.
Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
Please get a real journalist on this, not some blogger. A tiny bit of research will tell you a few interesting things that put things into perspective.
For example, we have an election upcoming, so obviously the government has to appear to be doing something about it, because the people don't like it. My bets are firmly on this dragging out until the election (of course, with constant reminders and "progress" reports) and afterwards, it'll quickly be forgotten.
For example, there are still laws in place from the end of WW2 and the times of the foundation of the Federal Republic of Germany that guarantee the allies spying rights. One of those agreements has just been revoked, to great PR effect. Almost all the mainstream media ignored that other agreements to the same effect still stand.
For example, the german equivalent, the BND, has been accused of working closely with the NSA, to the point of providing them with raw data. And our current prime minister would sell the whole country to her american friends if it gave her a benefit (a friendly hug would probably suffice). So one likely result is that they will agree the US stops spying, then the NSA lents its spy stations to the BND, who shares the data with the NSA, so everything remains the same, but technically, the NSA isn't spying within Germany anymore.
If you think the government or the current breed of corrupt egomanics that have taken over politics is there to protect you, you've been living under a rock the past twenty years.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
"I see nussink! I vuss not hier! I dit not efen get ahp diss morning!"
Meanwhile both governments continue to spy on their citizens.
I'm curious - what world did you grow up in? Governments have spied on their allies since there were governments.
Yes, but it's probably fairly new where a government will spy on its own people for another foreign government.
It is election campaigning time in Germany: 'A German federal election will be held on 22 September 2013 to determine the 598 (or more, if overhangs are produced) members of the 18th Bundestag, the main federal legislative house of Germany.' (wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_federal_election,_2013)
These talks about a no-spying agreement is to calm down the population and to try to keep Germans happy about reelecting the incumbents or former incumbents of the major, established parties. The NSA spying scandal could benefit new-comer parties like the Pirate Party.
The US will just contract out the spying to a third party (or country, ally). No harm no foul. Money talks.
Yes, the US will contract out it's Euro spying to Germany.
Meanwhile Germany will contract out it's America spying to the US.
Job done.