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FISC Chief Judge: We Can't Effectively Oversee the NSA

An anonymous reader writes "According to the Washington Post: 'The leader of the secret court that is supposed to provide critical oversight of the government's vast spying programs said that its ability to do so is limited and that it must trust the government to report when it improperly spies on Americans. The chief judge of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court said the court lacks the tools to independently verify how often the government's surveillance breaks the court's rules that aim to protect Americans' privacy. Without taking drastic steps, it also cannot check the veracity of the government's assertions that the violations its staff members report are unintentional mistakes.' President Obama said in June, 'We also have federal judges that we've put in place who are not subject to political pressure. They've got lifetime tenure as federal judges, and they're empowered to look over our shoulder at the executive branch to make sure that these programs aren't being abused.' Not so much, Mr. President."

21 of 185 comments (clear)

  1. I finally understand.... by rts008 · · Score: 4, Funny

    I have finally figured out why the statue holding 'the scales of justice' wore a blindfold! ;-)

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    1. Re:I finally understand.... by rubycodez · · Score: 4, Funny

      Finley Dunne, American writer and humorist: "Justice is blind an' deaf an' dumb, an' has a wooden leg".

    2. Re:I finally understand.... by TWX · · Score: 4, Funny

      Justice is...

      ...a pirate!

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      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
  2. Sigh... by MightyMartian · · Score: 5, Informative

    Translation: The whole thing is a monumentally tragic, Constitution-violating fuck up, brought to you by two successive Administrations and a Congress that couldn't give a flying fuck about the Constitution.

    What a pathetic situation.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    1. Re:Sigh... by msauve · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Calm down. Here's some panem et circenses.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    2. Re:Sigh... by tolkienfan · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Nope.
      This'll just mean the republicans will get in next time with a landslide.
      People who vote think the system works. Voting reinforces that.
      All of this will be blamed on Obama... and the next government will make some visible but ineffective changes. After running on "ending the spying" or some such.
      They won't abolish these programs or punish the illegal spying. .. they'll add more "oversight".

    3. Re:Sigh... by Zordak · · Score: 3, Interesting

      we have a bad process. so your solution is to fork another process.

      what we need is a new bashrc. using the old broken one and forking new instances will never fix our hung process.

      Our .bashrc is fine. The problem is that for 240 years, the sysadmins have been writing hackish, winding, indecipherable spaghetti code extension scripts designed to circumvent or undo all the good things .bashrc does. Then the auditors come in, look very closely at the scripts, and say, "Yup. Looks good. Those are definitely legitimate extensions to .bashrc."

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  3. Re:And the peices fall into place by lophophore · · Score: 5, Informative

    "Change You Can Believe In"!

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    there are 3 kinds of people:
    * those who can count
    * those who can't
  4. we don't have checks and balances by jsepeta · · Score: 4, Insightful

    we haven't had checks and balances in our government since the Gore V Bush decision, when Bush's dad's appointed supreme court ruled it's more important to abide by Florida's arbitrary date to count their votes than to count all the fucking votes using as much time as is necessary to insure an accurate count. why the fuck would anyone trust the US courts now? especially after the "corporations are people" decision.

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    1. Re:we don't have checks and balances by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Dude, let it go

  5. Re:And the peices fall into place by rubycodez · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Obama delivered on the Transparency though, can see right through him

  6. Re:And the peices fall into place by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Funny

    Can we wantonly spy on your Internet activities?
    YES WE CAN!

    Can we store your email and search it at our leisure?
    YES WE CAN!

    Can we create a judicial overview process so flimsy and one-sided that there's almost no chance of any request being turned down?
    YES WE CAN!

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  7. I Salute Your Courage! by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So, your honor, please tell us why you didn't bring these concerns to our attention before somebody with more guts than you'll ever have brought the matter up?

    Hell, you probably could have brought these concerns up without even revealing anything classified, or breaking any rules. They probably didn't remember to make it a state secret that you have no oversight powers worth mentioning, so it would have been entirely licit for you to complain about that.

    We might as well be honest here: Every day that you knew you had no oversight; but remained as a FISC justice, much less chief justice, you knowingly operated as a rubber stamp and a pitiful facade of rule of law. A rubber stamp for a program that you cannot have been stupid enough to think was entirely on the up-and-up. Unimpressive. Cowardly. Unworthy of your office.

    1. Re:I Salute Your Courage! by MightyMartian · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No, but what a judge can do if he feels that those laying out their case in front of him can do is refuse any ruling, or indeed throw out the request, if he feels he's been fed partial or incorrect knowledge.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    2. Re:I Salute Your Courage! by amicusNYCL · · Score: 4, Insightful

      FISC judges, LIKE ALL JUDGES, are at the mercy of those walking into their court to provide them information

      Then it wouldn't really be accurate to refer to that as "oversight", would it?

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
  8. Re:And the peices fall into place by msauve · · Score: 3, Insightful

    "represtitive government"

    Is that a portmanteau of "repressive representative" government?

    --
    "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
  9. They should just appoint a special investigator. by tlambert · · Score: 4, Interesting

    They should just appoint a special investigator.

    They could give the investigator over-arching extra-legal authority, just like the agency he'd be investigating.

    I hear Edward Snowden has some experience in this area, and is currently in need of a job...

  10. Re:They should just appoint a special investigator by MightyMartian · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Oh, I'm sure they'll pick someone from the NSA who will report to the NSA, and the report will be sealed and we'll get to watch a press conference where the President intones very seriously "I won't comment on the contents of the report, but suffice to say you can trust me and there's nothing to worry about."

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  11. Re:They should just appoint a special investigator by MightyMartian · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'm not, because Congress long ago abandoned a key role as a check on the Executive in favor of near constant partisan bickering. The end result is little more than a bitching chamber, where the party on top pushes its agenda, the other party consumes itself in trying to fuck up that agenda and get to the top. They are basically blind to all other considerations, and a pure political animals, squared off into two warring tribes, who have no sense of civic duty, no sense of morality or any sense of their purpose.

    --
    The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
  12. Re:And the peices fall into place by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This isn't partisan hackery. Plenty of people who thought that Obama was going to make things better have been thoroughly disillusioned.

  13. Re:I can't effectively promise. by Zordak · · Score: 3, Funny

    The NSA has worked out fusion?! Excellent, at least then some of the dollars spent might have a useful offshoot... if only we could get them to declassify it.

    The DoD worked out fusion quite nicely about 65 years ago. The energy yields of the reactors are truly impressive---their best experimental reactor had an output of something like 60 petajoules from negligible input power. (The Soviets built an even bigger reactor with close to 200 PJ). It's the containment facility that's been giving us problems since then. Work out that little detail, and you're sitting on a gold mine.

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