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FISC Chief Judge: We Can't Effectively Oversee the NSA
An anonymous reader writes "According to the Washington Post: 'The leader of the secret court that is supposed to provide critical oversight of the government's vast spying programs said that its ability to do so is limited and that it must trust the government to report when it improperly spies on Americans. The chief judge of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court said the court lacks the tools to independently verify how often the government's surveillance breaks the court's rules that aim to protect Americans' privacy. Without taking drastic steps, it also cannot check the veracity of the government's assertions that the violations its staff members report are unintentional mistakes.' President Obama said in June, 'We also have federal judges that we've put in place who are not subject to political pressure. They've got lifetime tenure as federal judges, and they're empowered to look over our shoulder at the executive branch to make sure that these programs aren't being abused.' Not so much, Mr. President."
This form of dissent is unpatriotic, Citizen. Report to the nearest NSA facility for rehabilitation.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
I have finally figured out why the statue holding 'the scales of justice' wore a blindfold! ;-)
Down With Slashdot BETA!!! I've been around the corner and seen the oliphant; you can only abuse me from your perspecti
One by one the cornerstones of represtitive government get kicked out of place and are used to pave the road to totalitarianism.
Python: 'And then suddenly you have a language which says "we're all stuck with whatever the whiniest coder wants".'
Translation: The whole thing is a monumentally tragic, Constitution-violating fuck up, brought to you by two successive Administrations and a Congress that couldn't give a flying fuck about the Constitution.
What a pathetic situation.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
nothing to see here, we are not doing anything illegal.
i wish I can use that same logic for IRS
Don't worry, son. Just take this pen and sign. I can assure that you're a true patriot.
And keep that bag on your head now. Only terrorists peek.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
we haven't had checks and balances in our government since the Gore V Bush decision, when Bush's dad's appointed supreme court ruled it's more important to abide by Florida's arbitrary date to count their votes than to count all the fucking votes using as much time as is necessary to insure an accurate count. why the fuck would anyone trust the US courts now? especially after the "corporations are people" decision.
Remember kids, if you're not paying for the service, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING SOLD.
NSA: Who, us? Nevar!
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Report to the nearest NSA facility for rehabilitation.
I think they call them "Fusion Centers" now...
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
So, your honor, please tell us why you didn't bring these concerns to our attention before somebody with more guts than you'll ever have brought the matter up?
Hell, you probably could have brought these concerns up without even revealing anything classified, or breaking any rules. They probably didn't remember to make it a state secret that you have no oversight powers worth mentioning, so it would have been entirely licit for you to complain about that.
We might as well be honest here: Every day that you knew you had no oversight; but remained as a FISC justice, much less chief justice, you knowingly operated as a rubber stamp and a pitiful facade of rule of law. A rubber stamp for a program that you cannot have been stupid enough to think was entirely on the up-and-up. Unimpressive. Cowardly. Unworthy of your office.
OOPS Wrong tab wrong article! Too many slashdot tabs open..Got to keep it to under 50.
And in other unrelated news, the Incredible Hulk has come out as gay. "Me like wearing the pink undies." he was quoted as saying. Reports suggest he's dating Aquaman, though Aquaman's agent had not returned our calls by press time.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
The NSA has worked out fusion?! Excellent, at least then some of the dollars spent might have a useful offshoot... if only we could get them to declassify it.
Patent litigation: A doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction... in which everyone seems willing to push the button
"The judges, both of the supreme and inferior courts, shall hold their offices during good behaviour, and shall, at stated times, receive for their services, a compensation, which shall not be diminished during their continuance in office." -- U.S. Constitution, Article III, Section 1. [emphasis added]
I think it is very much arguable that the FISA court judges, having "rubber stamped" nearly all surveillance requests, can be said to have violated "good behaviour".
You claim to have posted to the wrong article in your follow up, but it turns out you got it about right!
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
They should just appoint a special investigator.
They could give the investigator over-arching extra-legal authority, just like the agency he'd be investigating.
I hear Edward Snowden has some experience in this area, and is currently in need of a job...
OOPS Wrong tab wrong article! Too many slashdot tabs open..Got to keep it to under 50.
...and here I thought you were trying to say something deep about the two articles....
Is the US constitution being represented by the meteor?
the fisc is for supervising fisa, as feinstein notes. the report detailed violations under eo12333. feinstein also notes the need to step up oversight of eo12333 by the intel committees, *not* the fisc court
' President Obama said in June, 'We also have federal judges that we've put in place who are not subject to political pressure. They've got lifetime tenure as federal judges, and they're empowered to look over our shoulder at the executive branch to make sure that these programs aren't being abused.'
Tell me please, who is it that is misleading here?
Oh, I'm sure they'll pick someone from the NSA who will report to the NSA, and the report will be sealed and we'll get to watch a press conference where the President intones very seriously "I won't comment on the contents of the report, but suffice to say you can trust me and there's nothing to worry about."
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Unless you are asking for evidence to be thrown out or a conviction to be thrown out, you have always had approximately nonexistence rights for redress when it comes 4th Amendment violations. That is not news.
I don't want to intrude on the Obama bashing, but just to be very clear, every single Democratic and Republican leader has also been repeating this "I knowz the factz, for realz yall, and trust me it's all good."
A President saying "trust me... 'cause you have to" is not newsworthy. The fact that there's an fscking conspiracy by a cabal of United States Congressional leaders to keep the public in the dark is simply frightening. I mean... absolutely fscking frightening. I'm sure it's happened before, especially during the Cold War, but that's no excuse, because that was generations ago, and I'd like to think we've become more civilized.
The Bush years were so distressing to me that I actually went to and graduated from a top tier law school, in the middle of my career, just to wrap my head around our government. But what's happened in the past few months is absolutely blowing my mind. From the President, to Congressional leaders, down to the army of citizen apologists... I'm just gobsmacked.
Who watches The Watchmen. By which, of course, I mean who has the DVD of The Watchmen and watches it? I thought it was pretty good myself. The montage during the opening credits was particularly well done.
Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
Get more spies of course. Call it the NSA Safety Agency.
The government points at the FISC and says they have the responsibility and independence. The FISC points at the government and says they have the resources. And the NSA says they 'only' collect 1.6% of internet traffic, nothing to see here, move along.
Well at least the NSA has broken the code of "Never Say Anything". It's not much but given their culture of Omerta-like silence, it's something.
In the big picture though, I think we've got it confirmed that the oversight of the secret agencies is inadequate. When they start publicly disagreeing about who is responsible for what, who said what (*cough* James Clapper *cough*), and the only thing they agree on is that the whistle blowers are low-down dirty varmints, we've hit a nerve.
Oh, I don't think the judges are being subjected to political pressure. Rather, I think they're being subjected to misinformation campaigns.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Why am I suddenly reminded of the book chute?
I'm not, because Congress long ago abandoned a key role as a check on the Executive in favor of near constant partisan bickering. The end result is little more than a bitching chamber, where the party on top pushes its agenda, the other party consumes itself in trying to fuck up that agenda and get to the top. They are basically blind to all other considerations, and a pure political animals, squared off into two warring tribes, who have no sense of civic duty, no sense of morality or any sense of their purpose.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
as a number of the nasty KKK creeps discovered when they were charged with such violations after state juries failed to convict. Therefore is there any reason why those making the 'human errors' can't be charged under similar legislation?
Report to the nearest NSA facility for rehabilitation.
I think they call them "Fusion Centers" now...
I think they're called FEMA camps.
The mind conceives, the body achieves, the spirit manifests.
A part of the US government that has proven it's unable to do its job?
INCONCEIVABLE!!!
Report to the nearest NSA facility for rehabilitation.
I think they call them "Fusion Centers" now...
I think they're called FEMA camps.
Happy Camps!
Report to the nearest NSA facility for rehabilitation.
I think they call them "Fusion Centers" now...
I think they're called FEMA camps.
Happy Camps!
District 10.
We also have federal judges that we've put in place who are not subject to political pressure. They've got lifetime tenure as federal judges
Don't we have entire government departments dedicated to shortening lifetimes as efficiently as possible? Even if it's illegal and during times of peace?
Seriously, if the system of laws that enabled our society to thrive and exist thus far no longer apply to the people entrusted to enforce and protect them..... we have a serious f**king problem on our hands.
The president has a license to murder people and the means to spy on them with impunity. Outside of judicial oversight for the most part. For the safety of you and the nation of course.... Does this bother anyone but me?
I don't remember voting for a King or Emperor.
So did Jr and Little-Dicked Cheney
It wouldn't be so bad if EVERYBODY in the U.S. had a fair shot at the data collected, and to collect it on EVERYBODY from bottom to top, NO exceptions.
That could actually be interesting. Then I wonder who would be squirming.
"Oh, I don't think the judges are being subjected to political pressure. Rather, I think they're being subjected to misinformation campaigns."
Exactly. The threats and blackmail might well be waiting in the wings, if needed, but up until very recently there would be no chance of need. Once you get them ok with the basic setup of making all their decisions in secret after hearing from only one party, and relying exclusively on that party for arguments and evidence to inform their decisions, there's no need to strong arm them. Just tell them what you want them to know, and make sure no one else can tell them different. It's no surprise they almost never turned down a request.
This is why real courts avoid ex parte proceedings.
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Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
Your local judge also lacks the means to independently verify that your local police seek warrants, tell the truth about the evidence they have that supports probable cause, etc.
[The NSA] must trust the government to report when it improperly spies on Americans.
NO. What the NSA should trust is that the US Constitution overrides any other law in place. Something isn't "technically legal" just because it hasn't been ruled unconstitutional, that's just an excuse for getting away with criminal activities.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
The NSA has worked out fusion?! Excellent, at least then some of the dollars spent might have a useful offshoot... if only we could get them to declassify it.
The DoD worked out fusion quite nicely about 65 years ago. The energy yields of the reactors are truly impressive---their best experimental reactor had an output of something like 60 petajoules from negligible input power. (The Soviets built an even bigger reactor with close to 200 PJ). It's the containment facility that's been giving us problems since then. Work out that little detail, and you're sitting on a gold mine.
Today's Sesame Street was brought to you by the number e.
Face it, the worst elected government you've ever had ran the country better than when it was colonies owned by a King and privately owned corporations.
We already know that the NSA routinely violates the fourth amendment, and has committed billions of counts of illegal wiretapping. It's beyond reforming, its very existence is an attack on the bill of rights.
Shut the fuckers DOWN.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Helium-3 deuturium (sp?)
Reactions don't produce the high energy neutrinos that I understand tear shit up.
And its abundant on the moon
The whoosh is strong in this one.
My bumpersticker says I 3 pedantry.
Lovely. Thanks!
Take a look folks - this is why we call some of them LiberTARDians.
two other checks and balances missing from Congress:
-the Senate became (or became viewed as) another group of representatives elected by the public, rather than a semi-leadership house intented to counter and restrain the self-indulgent wishes of the Houseof Representitive. Remember, they used to be appointed (rather, was left up to individual states, most of whom appointed them via the Legislature...this is also another weakening of the state legislatures as well); only the House was direct representitive of the voters. A Senate-not-a-representive then acts as a restraint on the public's whims of fancy, so when the public says "give us all tons of chocolate!" and the house is obligated (in theory as representtives) to say "give the people chocolate", the senate acts as a counter saying "but you'll be all night/we cant afford it/its not good for you". the idea being that things would only be passed when both houses agree on the need for something. now that is largely gone, and the senate is simply 100 more representatives catering to the public.
-the party "system". loyalty isnt to the public, outside of election time, but to the party ideals. rather than the representiitve align himself to the public and represent their interests/wishes, they instead align themselves to a party, and the partys make the mjor policy decisions, and the public is expected to choose a party to side with, along with everything else they stand for. its backwards. its hard to legally stop parties (free association and whatnot) but like many meta-organization they soon take on lives of their own, and no longer pay heed to the people that originally brought them into existence, with the result being representitives that don't represent their voters.
The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.