New Zealand Parliament Votes To Extend Spying Powers

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New Zealand Parliament Votes To Extend Spying Powers

Posted by Unknown on Wednesday August 21, 2013 @12:53AM from the not-used-for-spying-pinky-swear dept.

pinkstuff writes "Amid protests and much opposition New Zealand parliament has just passed a bill which allows the The Government Communications Security Bureau (GCSB) greater spying powers."

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A proposition... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-21 00:57 · Score: 1

Dear Zealanders
Perhaps it would be wise to suggest to rename your country to Nanny Zealand or New Nannyland.
Your fellow European
1. Re:A proposition... by psergiu · 2013-08-21 01:09 · Score: 1
  
  Do you think you are not being monitored here in the Old Continent ?
  
  --
  1% APY, No fees, Online Bank https://captl1.co/2uIErYq Don't let your $$$ sit in a no-interest acct.
2. Re:A proposition... by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-21 01:26 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  First they came for Bradley Manning, and I said nothing because I am not in the army.
  Then they came for Julian Assange, and I said nothing because I am not a hacker.
  Then they came for Edward Snowden, and I said nothing because I am not a defence contractor.
  Then they came for the Guardian, and I said nothing because I am not in the media.
  Then they came for me. And there were no whistle blowers left to say anything.
3. Re:A proposition... by interkin3tic · 2013-08-21 01:27 · Score: 1
  
  That's a bit of a strawman argument. AC didn't say his country, whatever it is, is any better.
  
  If I am on fire, I still may be able to accurately identify whether or not YOU are on fire as well.
4. Re:A proposition... by Safety+Cap · 2013-08-21 02:27 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  So why were you endangering national security?
  
  Every time you use teh interwebs, you are endangering national security.
  Every time you leave the house, you are endangering national security.
  Every time you stay at home, you are endangering national security.
  ---
  Consider that they are tracking everyone.
  Which means everyone is a suspect.
  And they wouldn't be suspects if they weren't guilty.
  ---
  Q. What do you call an innocent civilian?
  A. A criminal who hasn't broken the law yet.
  
  --
  Yeah, right.
5. Re:A proposition... by davester666 · 2013-08-21 05:19 · Score: 3, Insightful
  
  Q. What do you call an innocent civilian?
  A. A criminal who hasn't been convicted yet.
  
  --
  Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
Keeping up with the Joneses by LordLucless · 2013-08-21 01:01 · Score: 5, Funny

Obviously post-Snowden, they realise how much they need to catch up to the American standard.

--
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
1. Re:Keeping up with the Joneses by ackthpt · 2013-08-21 01:20 · Score: 1
  
  Obviously post-Snowden, they realise how much they need to catch up to the American standard.
  If Antonio Prohias were still alive he would have a field day with this.
  
  --
  
  A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
2. Re:Keeping up with the Joneses by lightknight · 2013-08-21 01:21 · Score: 1
  
  Indeed. If they do not know what their citizens have eaten for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, then they haven't gone far enough!
  You could say they are in the business of knowing everything about everything. They just want the world to act in a practical, responsible matter, with no deviations from established behavioral patterns.
  
  --
  I am John Hurt.
3. Re:Keeping up with the Joneses by dkleinsc · 2013-08-21 01:32 · Score: 1
  
  the American standard
  That's ok, you can get American Standards pretty easily these days.
  
  --
  I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
4. Re:Keeping up with the Joneses by pinkstuff · 2013-08-21 01:37 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  It is actually the American standard... The NSA is likely subsidising the GCSB
5. Re:Keeping up with the Joneses by Torvac · 2013-08-21 04:23 · Score: 1
  
  most likely. same with germany, suddenly its no problem for the government anymore, full take on everything is legit they said. (yes its obviously no problem for them that their emails get read by the nsa, wtf ?). something big is coming, it wont be funny.
6. Re:Keeping up with the Joneses by MrBigInThePants · 2013-08-22 09:54 · Score: 1
  
  Err no. They are being TOLD to catch up by america by america.
  This particular party has always wanted to cosy up to the US and do whatever it wants. In this case they want access to the global spying the US is doing on everyone. There is a secret "free" trade agreement being created and signed up to at this time also which undoubtedly has something to do with it..
  However.
  This bill will enable the cops/govt departments to get access to the GCSB intelligence and for that not to be an offence This bill was in response to the public finding out they have been doing this illegally this whole time. So their response has been to change the law to make it legal and to continue with "business as usual" and much more than likely far worse than before without the fear of any legal ramifications.
  And primarily the access they are after is the GCSB's intelligence sharing they do with the US.
  This is a cut and dried assault on the freedom of the NZ public. And don't be fooled by the "87%" against the bill. NZ is a nation of sheep and has been for a long long time now. They will do what the shepherd says when the dogs start barking. (and this bill is the sheppard hiring its first pit bull.)
  And by sheep I mean sheeple.
Borg, James Borg by BreakBad · 2013-08-21 01:06 · Score: 1

n/t
Codename? by gmuslera · 2013-08-21 01:08 · Score: 5, Funny

US have a lot of names for their surveillance programs, which one will be the one from New Zealand? The Eye of Sauron?
1. Re:Codename? by somersault · 2013-08-21 01:13 · Score: 2
  
  I'd go with Rocks
  
  --
  which is totally what she said
2. Re:Codename? by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-21 01:25 · Score: 2, Funny
  
  Sheep?
  http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sheep
  Description: 1,2,4,5,6,7 etc applies here.
3. Re:Codename? by c0lo · 2013-08-21 02:03 · Score: 1
  
  The Black sheep ones
  
  --
  Questions raise, answers kill. Raise questions to stay alive.
Public opinion doesn't matter by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · 2013-08-21 01:11 · Score: 5, Interesting

For a long time, governments of modern democracies have been rather afraid of public opinion and the press, and have avoided doing things that would result in protests and opposition.
Then at some point they realized they could bribe the press, and that the public's opinion doesn't really matter, nor does it amount to much or lead to much violence in a society of over-fed TV addicts. Today's protesters are all bark and no bite, and the powers-that-be know it full well. So they do whatever the fuck they want without even trying to be discreet about it.
That's where we're at right now. Welcome to a new form of tyranny, in which dictators are "democrats" who resort on soothing words and the complicity of mass-media to pussify the populace and keep it in check. Violence and outright dictatorship is so yesteryear...

--
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
1. Re:Public opinion doesn't matter by GameboyRMH · 2013-08-21 01:42 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  I wonder if it had something to do with better security at public events and better investigative techniques. As recently as around WW1 it was common for unpopular politicians to be assassinated and the killer could get away with it without too much trouble. Over time it became harder to kill politicians and get away with it, until we're in today's situation where there are anti-sniper teams around these appearances, the buildings the politicians reside in are armored and it's practically impossible. They're safer from the angry masses than the 1700s French aristocracy could have ever dreamed of. They have nothing to fear.
  
  --
  "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
2. Re:Public opinion doesn't matter by cold+fjord · 2013-08-21 01:49 · Score: 1
  
  Assassination isn't part of the democratic process.
  
  --
  much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
3. Re:Public opinion doesn't matter by GameboyRMH · 2013-08-21 01:54 · Score: 2
  
  It certainly shouldn't be, but maybe it was acting as a hackish fix for a very flawed democracy and giving a better outcome than the system would have had without it. Now we have no way to address overwhelming public disapproval, especially in the face of limited alternatives (another big flaw in current democracies).
  
  --
  "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
4. Re:Public opinion doesn't matter by RevDisk · 2013-08-21 01:55 · Score: 1
  
  You must not be familiar with the democratic process or history.
5. Re:Public opinion doesn't matter by kilfarsnar · 2013-08-21 01:59 · Score: 3, Interesting
  
  Yeah, but we don't have a democratic process. I'm not sure about New Zealand, but the US is a plutocracy now.
  
  --
  "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
6. Re:Public opinion doesn't matter by Type44Q · 2013-08-21 02:00 · Score: 2
  
  Then at some point they realized they could take over the press, and that the public could be manipulated more effectively than ever before
  
  FTFY.
7. Re:Public opinion doesn't matter by cold+fjord · 2013-08-21 02:06 · Score: 1
  
  You must not be familiar with the concept of voting, and the law.
  
  --
  much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
8. Re:Public opinion doesn't matter by ISoldat53 · 2013-08-21 02:13 · Score: 1
  
  "When in the course of Human events......"
9. Re:Public opinion doesn't matter by davecb · 2013-08-21 02:36 · Score: 2
  
  This is what Plato wrote about, and the Romans invented a cool variant on: "bread and circuses". The latter led to / supported tyranny, the Empire.
  Plato observed a cycle in Greek city-states: aristocracy to timocracy, to an oligarchy, to a democracy, to tyranny and thence back to aristocracy.
  
  --
  davecb@spamcop.net
10. Re:Public opinion doesn't matter by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-21 02:47 · Score: 1
  
  Bullshit. You're just rationalizing the fact that you're too goddamn lazy to do anything by telling yourself it is hopeless.
11. Re:Public opinion doesn't matter by cold+fjord · 2013-08-21 02:50 · Score: 1
  
  If public disapproval truly is overwhelming rather than rhetorical, it can either be fixed at the next election or by recall election (if available). If you want to try to portray assassination as a legitimate tool of redress in a democratic system you should probably stop complaining about "rule of law" issues.
  Democracy is known to be a flawed system of government, it is the worst, other than all the rest.
  
  --
  much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
12. Re:Public opinion doesn't matter by myowntrueself · 2013-08-21 02:54 · Score: 1
  
  A plutocracy? I didn't catch that. What is the minimum income level to vote now?
  Theres a minimum income level to be voted for; have to pay for the advertising. Its not cheap.
  
  --
  In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
13. Re:Public opinion doesn't matter by whoever57 · 2013-08-21 03:01 · Score: 2
  
  You must not be familiar with the concept of voting, and the law.
  
  You must not be familiar with how the 2-party state really works.
  
  --
  The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
14. Re:Public opinion doesn't matter by dkleinsc · 2013-08-21 03:06 · Score: 2
  
  For a long time, governments of modern democracies have been rather afraid of public opinion and the press, and have avoided doing things that would result in protests and opposition.
  When would that have been, exactly? The first US president to shove an unpopular policy (a whiskey tax) down the throats of the masses was George Washington - leading to one of the 2 times in US history that an American president has actually commanded troops as president. The French revolutionary governments were so unpopular that they decided to scrap the whole thing and put Napoleon in charge. The Italians, Germans, and Romanians tried it in the 1920's and bungled it so badly that many thought the fascists were an improvement.
  Democracies are probably more responsive to their people than dictatorships, but that's not saying much. An interesting point someone made recently: In order to become president of Iran, a candidate has to be accepted by the unelected ayatollahs. In order to become president of the US, a candidate has to be accepted by the unelected Wall St tycoons. How different are those systems, really?
  
  --
  I am officially gone from /. Long live http://www.soylentnews.com/
15. Re:Public opinion doesn't matter by jez9999 · 2013-08-21 03:28 · Score: 1
  
  They have nothing to fear.
  But plenty to hide. :-)
  
  --
  == Jez ==
  Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
16. Re:Public opinion doesn't matter by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-21 04:13 · Score: 1
  
  In order to become president of Iran, a candidate has to be accepted by the unelected ayatollahs. In order to become president of the US, a candidate has to be accepted by the unelected Wall St tycoons. How different are those systems, really?
  
  The difference is that one only appears to be true because the voters make it true. American voters are lazy. Lazy in how they vote, lazy in their political understanding and lazy in how they spend their dollars. This allows corruption to continue. I don't believe that they can change the system overnight but as long as they want to "vote for the lesser of two evils" or "not waste their vote on third parties" this kind of abuse will continue.
  
  Good on the politicians. They figured out how to keep Americans in check and keep their eye on corporations and not the way the government whips them into feeding the meat grinder. So many people already think that the politicians are the unwitting victims of corporate dollars. It's like shooting fish in a barrel to the DC elite. Americans deserve what they get for being lazy.
17. Re:Public opinion doesn't matter by GameboyRMH · 2013-08-21 05:07 · Score: 1
  
  Meh, they only hide things that would cause annoying and time-consuming public outrage. It's a convenience thing.
  
  --
  "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
18. Re:Public opinion doesn't matter by citizenr · 2013-08-21 05:48 · Score: 1
  
  Today's protesters are all bark and no bite
  Not everywhere, protests in France often turn into riots for example.
  
  --
  Who logs in to gdm? Not I, said the duck.
19. Re:Public opinion doesn't matter by pinkstuff · 2013-08-21 06:28 · Score: 3, Informative
  
  OP here. New Zealand has a Proportional Representation based governement. This makes it less of a two horse race as every vote counts. Quite minor parties will have representation in government. There are also quite small spending caps for campaigning leading up to elections. For the most part it works quite well, and I still believe it is one of the most truely democratic countries.
  This is what makes all of this so much worse, it is the first time in living memory there has been such strong public opposition to a bill and it has been passed anyway. A recent poll suggests 89% of New Zealanders oppose the bill.
  There is more than meets the eye here, the way the Prime Minister is forcing this through is very fishy to me, it seems like he is being pushed into it. Here is a quote from a recent press conference:
  
  “Prime Minister, numerous legal jurors have informed us publicly that they disagree with you wholeheartedly, that you are taking broad powers, which would allow you to invade privacyand you are saying that all those people are wrong” a journalist said to Key. “Correct,” the Prime Minister said before immediately interrupting the rest of the question by asking, “Is this a question buddy?”
  So, the Human Rights Commission, the Law Society and the general population don't want the bill to pass, and yet it does (just).
20. Re:Public opinion doesn't matter by alexo · 2013-08-21 10:24 · Score: 1
  
  What prevents an opposition party from promising to revoke that law if they win the elections?
21. Re:Public opinion doesn't matter by cold+fjord · 2013-08-21 13:07 · Score: 1
  
  You must not be familiar with how literal blood feuds work. That is no way to run a country. If you think it will be an improvement, you are sadly mistaken. You've been carried away by rhetoric into the fever swamp.
  
  --
  much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
22. Re:Public opinion doesn't matter by Maelwryth · 2013-08-21 19:09 · Score: 1
  
  Interesting. I have just asked around the table who was able to watch videos at either tvnz news or tv3 news about the GCSB saga and found that out of three people, two had tried and neither were able to watch any of the clips. Admittedly, this is in a localised area but in my case I have been unable to watch any news video on the GCSB debate for the past two weeks. They just failed to load. Everything else seems to load fine but not videos related to the GCSB. Now I feel paranoid. It is probably a local problem, but has anyone else in NZ had this?
  
  --
  I reserve the write to mangle english.
23. Re:Public opinion doesn't matter by Maelwryth · 2013-08-21 19:21 · Score: 1
  
  I think it may be worse than that. The debate was purely based around email, giving an available back down position of saying 'not email' but leaving in everything else. Our publicly owned power companies are being sold off, firstly under the excuse of the financial crisis and now another one......for what? We are forecast to hit 5% growth. Post crisis just about every bank in NZ has had record profits, post the Chistchurch earthquake both the rebuilder and the largest insurer in NZ have posted record profits. Our last PM got a nice job overseas after losing, what is the bet this one does as well.
  
  --
  I reserve the write to mangle english.
24. Re:Public opinion doesn't matter by RaceProUK · 2013-08-21 23:41 · Score: 1
  
  That's a nice rant, but the US is and has always been a Republic, not a Democracy.
  These terms are not mutually exclusive. Generally speaking, Western Republics are democracies.
  
  --
  No colour or religion ever stopped the bullet from a gun
25. Re:Public opinion doesn't matter by pinkstuff · 2013-08-22 00:24 · Score: 1
  
  You are right, the problem is they are idiots. I honestly think Labour would have passed the bill if they were in power, and then National would be protesting it - it is all just a big puppet show. Even if the they wouldn't passed it, they would have made some other clamitous mistake - I have no faith in them at present. The question is, as a voter, who do you vote for in 2014? Time to become a politician I think.
First world problems. by sd4f · 2013-08-21 01:11 · Score: 2

Living in the first world is starting to make me feel slightly enslaved. More or less my existence is limited by what our elected overlords have deemed permissible. I think now I get the futurama quote of "I don't want to live on this planet anymore". I certainly don't like living in a state of Australia where the constitution states that the parliament can make a law for whatever reason it wishes (with a couple of minor exclusions).
This form of representative democracy is in effect tyranny and more importantly treasonous, it is slowly relegating us to serfdom
1. Re:First world problems. by Kell+Bengal · 2013-08-21 01:25 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  The real question is what are we going to do about it? I'm getting increasingly interested in the political process - I've written my MP and the opposite candidate about my views on these things. I've told them my vote is contingent on a roll-back on policies such as this (along with airport scanners).
  
  I'm starting with the soap box, and the ballot box will soon follow. We'll see how many boxes it takes until we see change. Part of the problem with the West is that we've lost the realisation that change is possible and is driven by public choice. We get the government we deserve, and I am damned well going to make my vote in September count.
  
  --
  Scientists point out problems, engineers fix them
  altslashdot.org: The future of slashdot.
2. Re:First world problems. by Princeofcups · 2013-08-21 03:42 · Score: 1
  
  The real question is what are we going to do about it? I'm getting increasingly interested in the political process - I've written my MP and the opposite candidate about my views on these things. I've told them my vote is contingent on a roll-back on policies such as this (along with airport scanners).
  All that accomplished was to push you up the list of subversives to keep an eye on. This is why Lenin and Alexander Hamilton used pseudonyms.
  
  --
  The only thing worse than a Democrat is a Republican.
3. Re:First world problems. by Xarvh · 2013-08-21 15:17 · Score: 1
  
  True that.
  We all agree we have a huge problem, but we don't seem to have any way of solving it.
  What I think could work, but with lots of efforts and time, is to take back politics from below.
  Take part in your local politics, where you as an individual can make a difference: run, support a better candidate or just keep a close eye on what your representatives are doing.
  Start cleaning up there: this will make your fellow citizens feel more empowered and will hinder the careers of dishonest politicians wannabes.
  I wonder if it would be possible to set up a town-sized liquid democracy, for example.
Re:Can't allow foreign agents by oobayly · 2013-08-21 01:12 · Score: 1

Screw keel designs, they just need some way of stopping the boats from breaking in anything above 18kts.
Catch up on what the neighbours are watching by dbIII · 2013-08-21 01:14 · Score: 2, Interesting

Q: Do they get a gun?
A: No, the army has got the gun this week and it's the turn of the police next week.

To be a bit more serious they are probably only catching up on what Australia and the US are getting out of NZ communications via the Australian company Telstra that owns most of the NZ communication networks now. Telstra have already admitted that they give US agencies access to their networks without a warrant.
1. Re: Catch up on what the neighbours are watching by oob · 2013-08-21 02:23 · Score: 2
  
  Telstra was only ever a minor player in the NZ telecommunications market.
  And last year, they sold the entirety of their operation to Vodafone New Zealand.
2. Re: Catch up on what the neighbours are watching by dbIII · 2013-08-21 18:41 · Score: 1
  
  Minor? They bought the largest ISP in New Zealand and completely screwed it up so badly I had all kinds of weird DNS hassles sending email to a few companies in NZ.
3. Re: Catch up on what the neighbours are watching by KiwiSurfer · 2013-08-21 18:55 · Score: 1
  
  Which ISP was that? They have never owned nor operated the largest ISP. That honour has gone to Telecom New Zealand (no relation to Telstra) for at least the past decade.
4. Re: Catch up on what the neighbours are watching by dbIII · 2013-08-21 19:45 · Score: 1
  
  Which was bought out when Sol Trujillo was running Telstra.
Apparently they have a reason by cold+fjord · 2013-08-21 01:15 · Score: 1

Al Qaeda-Trained Terrorists in New Zealand, Prime Minister Says

Earlier this month, as the United States rushed to shutter embassies in response to a terrorist threat, New Zealand's prime minister made a remarkable but largely overlooked assertion. According to John Key, there are al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula-trained individuals at large in his country.
"In New Zealand there are people who've been trained for al-Qaeda camps who operate out of New Zealand, who are in contact with people overseas, who have gone off to Yemen and other countries to train," he told a radio program in New Zealand on Aug. 1. "Some are still offshore and some are in New Zealand."

--
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
1. Re:Apparently they have a reason by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-21 01:30 · Score: 1
  
  The only terrorists we have had in NZ were French.
  Remember the Rainbow Warrior
2. Re:Apparently they have a reason by Cenan · 2013-08-21 01:33 · Score: 1
  
  How would they know that if they don't have enough spying powers to know that?
  
  --
  ... whatever ...
3. Re:Apparently they have a reason by VortexCortex · 2013-08-21 01:37 · Score: 5, Insightful
  
  So what. Fuck 'em. Life is a bit dangerous, time to accept that and stop pissing away rights and stop jumping at every shadow the government points at. The terrorists don't actually do much damage, just spread fear; Hence the name... You're far more likely to die in an auto accident or of heart disease... Where's all the fear of automobiles and fast food? War is what causes damage, that and all the stupid fear-mongering.
  Protip: There were no WMDs. The Red Scare was just fear. A Threat Narrative is what's used to manufacture consent, it doesn't have to be truthful, just scary. The governments and media are the biggest terrorist, depending on what word you use to mean "the spread of terror to achieve political goals". So, yeah, you can't turn on a TV without seeing a terrorist. Big Fucking Deal.
4. Re:Apparently they have a reason by meta-monkey · 2013-08-21 01:43 · Score: 1
  
  They've come for the sheep!
  
  --
  We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
5. Re:Apparently they have a reason by GameboyRMH · 2013-08-21 01:46 · Score: 2
  
  Once you travel to Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia or a few other such places for any reason, you immediately become one of the most suspicious people on the planet. Few things could raise a bigger red flag. The "terrorists" are probably just middle-easterners visiting their families on vacation.
  
  --
  "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
6. Re:Apparently they have a reason by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-21 01:48 · Score: 1
  
  What bugs me more is that Key's conversation with Banks is private, but anything and everything I do should not be. Why not? Because we can trust John Key, even though he's a two-faced lying probable sociopath.
7. Re:Apparently they have a reason by sl4shd0rk · 2013-08-21 02:31 · Score: 2
  
  You're far more likely to die in an auto accident or of heart disease... Where's all the fear of automobiles and fast food?
  Indeed. About 3000 people have died from terrorism *since* 2001 10 times more people die (PDF warning) *each year* by suicide. The numbers and justifications for all this "yeahbut think of teh terroristss!!" malarkey is just that. Malarkey. Malarkey based on irrational fear, scooped up and eaten by a drama staved public.
  
  --
  Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
8. Re:Apparently they have a reason by DNS-and-BIND · 2013-08-21 02:59 · Score: 1
  
  Nope! Turns out, Senator McCarthy was right. There really were Communists in the State Department. But they did such a job on him that his name entered our language as a synonym for falsehood, which sadly continues yet today. When will Hollywood come out with a movie that shows the truth?
  
  --
  Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
9. Re:Apparently they have a reason by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-21 04:00 · Score: 1
  
  Yeah. Maybe Dalton Trumbo can write the screenplay. I hear he's good.
10. Re:Apparently they have a reason by melikamp · 2013-08-21 06:37 · Score: 1
  
  You really cracked this problem. Wow. Now if only we could figure out how to explain basic facts to at least a quarter of all people in the world, we'd be set.
So much for retiring there by dywolf · 2013-08-21 01:28 · Score: 5, Insightful

*removes New Zealand from Top 5 places I want to retire to*

--
The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
1. Re:So much for retiring there by gstoddart · 2013-08-21 01:43 · Score: 1
  
  *removes New Zealand from Top 5 places I want to retire to*
  Have you got a working Top 5 of places which don't have this? Because I'm having a hard time thinking of them, and I'd dearly love to know. :(
  
  --
  Lost at C:>. Found at C.
2. Re:So much for retiring there by GameboyRMH · 2013-08-21 01:49 · Score: 4, Interesting
  
  He just values his privacy and liberty, quaint old concepts that had to be sacrificed for safety in our safer-than-ever world, I know.
  NZ is still in my top 5 list of desirable locations but it's been accelerating down for a while now.
  
  --
  "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
3. Re:So much for retiring there by myowntrueself · 2013-08-21 03:00 · Score: 1
  
  *removes New Zealand from Top 5 places I want to retire to*
  As long as you don't mind living on an unstable piece of rock in the middle of nowhere. Honestly, it could just slide into the sea tomorrow or the Taupo supervolcano go off again and pave the whole country under volcanic ash. Again.
  Its not a place to plant long-term roots.
  
  --
  In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
4. Re:So much for retiring there by dywolf · 2013-08-21 03:35 · Score: 1
  
  that a pretty pathetic troll attempt
  
  --
  The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
5. Re:So much for retiring there by dywolf · 2013-08-21 03:40 · Score: 1
  
  Oh it's not that bad. And it's a good sight better than the yearly tornado season I live with now.
  Actually I'd love to retire to a small farm. In NZ, or some other such place. Such as: http://img.scoop.co.nz/stories/images/0908/canterbury_plains_2.jpg
  And NZ is at the top of the list because it's got all the climates I like and enjoy, and in such a small area, so can easily get to em. And it's got interesting critters.
  
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  The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
6. Re:So much for retiring there by myowntrueself · 2013-08-21 03:55 · Score: 1
  
  Oh it's not that bad. And it's a good sight better than the yearly tornado season I live with now.
  Actually I'd love to retire to a small farm. In NZ, or some other such place. Such as: http://img.scoop.co.nz/stories/images/0908/canterbury_plains_2.jpg
  And NZ is at the top of the list because it's got all the climates I like and enjoy, and in such a small area, so can easily get to em. And it's got interesting critters.
  Tornado season isn't going to wipe out almost all life and make the place uninhabitable for decades, perhaps centuries.
  Christchurch is still in deep shit and that wasn't even a very big quake.
  
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  In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
7. Re:So much for retiring there by pinkstuff · 2013-08-21 06:35 · Score: 1
  
  As a kiwi, this does sadden me a bit. See my post above, I still think it is one of the most truely democratic and free countries in the world - this is what makes the passing of this bill even more shocking to me.
8. Re:So much for retiring there by agm · 2013-08-21 09:40 · Score: 1
  
  The scary thing is that the passing of this bill may see people favour the opposition, and they have a far worse record of infringing our liberties (and yes, I am a New Zealander). The current bunch are still by far the lesser of two evils.
Re:IF the public reacts violently? by davecb · 2013-08-21 01:30 · Score: 1

Check out "responsibility to protect", which is the hook less-insane countries use to hang a duty to not kill your own citizens on (;-))

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davecb@spamcop.net
It makes you wonder? by kurt555gs · 2013-08-21 01:41 · Score: 5, Interesting

Who does all this spying serve? Really. Who?

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* Carthago Delenda Est *
1. Re:It makes you wonder? by oodaloop · 2013-08-21 02:34 · Score: 1
  
  My money is on the money
  It's money all the way down.
  
  --
  Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
2. Re:It makes you wonder? by Sabriel · 2013-08-21 13:22 · Score: 1
  
  To excerpt from a post at http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=4113917&cid=44632619 I suggest it serves these people:
  
  Child prostitution -SOMEONE at Dyncorp and the US government for employing them to do so.
  Blackmail -SOMEONE at Pfizer.
  Smuggling -SOMEONE at Chevron.
  Espionage Hilary Clinton and the State department.
  Perjury - James Clapper. Illegal warrantless espionage against US citizens on US soil. And no, FISA is not looking over their shoulder.
  More generally? The kind who think, "Screw the world, got mine, getting more." http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/21/business/a-shuffle-of-aluminum-but-to-banks-pure-gold.html
Let's just cut to the chase... by meta-monkey · 2013-08-21 01:43 · Score: 2

Can we just pass a law already that everybody has to walk around naked except for an always-on camera that sends its feed directly to government servers?
Well, not "everybody," of course. That would be ridiculous. Our wise government officials should be exempt from this law as their privacy is critical for national security.

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We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
Re:What in NZ is worth monitoring? by GameboyRMH · 2013-08-21 01:44 · Score: 1

They're organizing...

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"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Astonishing by Sparticus789 · 2013-08-21 01:44 · Score: 1

I didn't know all of those sheep were so interesting that they warranted expanded surveillance.

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sudo make me a sandwich
Re:Necessary Amendments by ISoldat53 · 2013-08-21 02:17 · Score: 1

No, but they will do exactly what the US tells them to do and we do have Senators, States,Congress , a Supreme Court etc
Stop Pretending to be Subjects! by ilikenwf · 2013-08-21 02:48 · Score: 1

If it's a real representative government, the average folks of NZ could band together and stop this. Same goes for the USA. Instead of yelling about it, people need to take action and continue yelling about it.
Comment removed by account_deleted · 2013-08-21 02:51 · Score: 3, Informative

Comment removed based on user account deletion
Modern Democratic Process by AttillaTheNun · 2013-08-21 03:28 · Score: 1

I'm Canadian, but I speak on behalf of those who live in any representative democratic political system.
This is just about enough. It's one thing to have a representative democratic form of government, but laws should not be passed that the majority do not want - and it shouldn't require a monumental effort to overturn. Apathy is too easily leveraged by those with less than honourable intentions.
Representative democracies were instituted for a number of fundamental and practical reasons, including the assumption that those with a passion, skill and education in the political process could be trusted as visionaries and representatives to form laws that are in the interest of the public majority, and it was otherwise too costly and, thus, impractical to subject every bill to a public vote. This is no longer the case and is time to empower citizens their fair share of participation in the system.
In this day and age, there is no reason why we cannot delegate the elected representatives to draft and sponsor bills, but they should not be passed without being first subject to majority vote online before they are invoked as law. If less than 50% respondents fail to approve, it is vetoed.
Similarly, the public should have the ability to repeal existing laws via a similar process, perhaps backed by a system to empower citizens to campaign for support on any issue.
Couple things. by Dripdry · 2013-08-21 05:10 · Score: 1

I've been thinking about this.... the whole "scared of everything" generation.
about 10-15 years ago the hubub was about Helicopter Parents (like mine), or maybe it was just media BS.
Now I work for someone who is SO paranoid that she won't walk 20 feet outside our building (in a very safe area) after dark without an escort.
I think the people who were insane about safety finally had their kids go off to college, now they've turned their insanity on the world.
People seem to be trading everything they can't understand (no time for introspection, there's real work to be done!) for one tiny mote of something they THINK they can understand (mmm safety). It's... very extreme, seemingly, almost maniacal.
Does it have to do with the fact that we live in Pleasant World now? If no one talks about bad things or death, they can't happen; we rationalize. We fear what we don't discuss/understand; has our fear of death risen to such a degree that we are actually trading OUR LIVES away just so we have an infinitesimally smaller chance of not dying? yikes.

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Alternate Answer by ThatsNotPudding · 2013-08-21 05:28 · Score: 1

Q. What do you call an innocent civilian?

A. Backlog.
Just another reason to.. by Anonymous Coward · 2013-08-21 06:27 · Score: 1

get out of New Zealand and never look back, glad I did.
Cost of living is stupid, most jobs are underpaid, the public health system is a joke, the goverment has gone on a 'compliance' crusade adding even more layers of inefficiency to make sure it's citizens stay 'safe' and can keep feeding the governments ever increasing appetite for tax dollars. 15% sales tax on **everything** anyone? $9/gallon gasoline? Over inflated house prices around 5 to 7 times the average income? High interest rates? You're welcome to it. Nice scenery.. suppose that's priceless eh.
Best country on earth by bussdriver · 2013-08-21 07:57 · Score: 1

Isn't New Zealand still #1 as they've been for decades? or in the top 2 spot anyhow.
5-7 times the average income for a house? that isn't so bad.
$46k in the USA x 5 = $230k
Electric cars are long overdue... largely delayed due to the cheapo gas in the USA - the largest consumer of cars. 15% sales tax is a bit much... must discourage over consumption... but shifting it to income wouldn't be that popular either... it would be less regressive. Here I was thinking NZ was some left wing Utopia or something; guess not.

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Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
1. Re:Best country on earth by agm · 2013-08-21 09:43 · Score: 1
  
  Because Australia isn't afraid to dig wealth out of the ground. In New Zealand we have political parties who want higher wages and increased employment but don't want us to take advantage of our natural resources. While this short-sightedness continues people will flee to Australia.
short-sightedness? by bussdriver · 2013-08-26 05:32 · Score: 1

That has to be the 1st time I've heard somebody claim that it is short-sighted to NOT build an economy around natural resource extraction!
Ruin a large area of land permanently just to employ some people for a few generations? Sure there are reasonable levels... except that the current generation is always BIASED for themselves and their children; making it difficult for them to ever be reasonable in the eyes of history. Plus, usually a few people get mega rich from the people's resources. Yeah, I'm dissing mineral rights as a total farce being pulled on the public by the wealthy. Those jobs are not so numerous and often not so great either.
Population growth increases the demand for resources and.... jobs. NZ should be thinking for the long term and those who don't like it can leave... You can't be the best nation in the world and REMAIN that way if you don't address population growth.

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Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news