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Comcast Threatens TorrentFreak For Posting Public Court Document

Despite being part of public court proceedings, Comcast sent a notice of infringement ordering Torrent Freak to stop hosting a letter linking a subscriber to Prenda Law. From the article: "Comcast has sent TorrentFreak a cease and desist letter, claiming copyright over contents of an article which revealed that Prenda Law was involved in operating a pirate honeypot. Failure to comply will result in a lawsuit in which the Internet provider will seek damages, a Comcast representative informs us. In addition, Comcast also alerted our hosting provider, who is now threatening to shut down our server."

58 of 215 comments (clear)

  1. Dear Comcast, fuck off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's a public court document, you don't own it you fucking douche-bag.

    1. Re:Dear Comcast, fuck off by Culture20 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Maybe the judge is in their employ and has one of those "anything you create on or off Comcast time is Comcast property" and they think that trumps government.

    2. Re:Dear Comcast, fuck off by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If we're going to have (I wish we did not... they're bad news) DMCA take-down orders, we also need a law WITH TEETH that criminalizes the abuse of same.

      Once you start seeing actual damages for filing false notices, watch them stop.

    3. Re:Dear Comcast, fuck off by interkin3tic · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I disagree.

      Dear, Dear Comcast:

      Please spam everyone and everything with these cease and desist letters. For EVERYTHING. Especially politicians and voters who don't generally care about IP laws.

      The sooner everyone realizes how thoroughly stupid it is to give you this as a weapon, the sooner someone will take it away from you and all the other sociopathic organizations out there.

      Hopefully anyway. At the very least, it will be entertaining to watch you claim copyright over "#yolo" on twitter.

    4. Re:Dear Comcast, fuck off by mcgrew · · Score: 5, Informative

      If we're going to have (I wish we did not... they're bad news) DMCA take-down orders, we also need a law WITH TEETH that criminalizes the abuse of same.

      I agree that DMCA takedowns need teeth, and harsh penalties for abusing it. However, personal experience tells me we need takedowns of infringing material.

      Fifteen years ago I started a Quake gaming site that I stuffed with all kinds of good contents, which included a huge trove of single player cheats, console commands and server commands that I meticulously tested and explained. Those pages may have been the most plagairized works on the internet; folks would take my content, remove my name, put theirs in, and repost.

      My web host's IP address was used in one of the examples, and googling it brought up dozens of plagiarized pages. I'd email the sites and politely ask for simply credit and a link to my site. Very few complied and some were pretty damned hostile (most were at .edu domains so it was mostly college kids doing it, although a few were commercial).

      Without takedowns there would have been nothing I could do about it. The same would apply to plagiarized GPL code someone posted and claimed credit for.

      If someone posts my book on a commercial site I'll be issuing more (noncommercial use, including torrents, will be free). But bullshit like Comcast is pulling should result in someone's incarceration.

    5. Re:Dear Comcast, fuck off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Did you read the summary? They're claiming copyright on a court document.

    6. Re:Dear Comcast, fuck off by Skapare · · Score: 2

      I agree that DMCA takedowns need teeth, and harsh penalties for abusing it. However, personal experience tells me we need takedowns of infringing material.

      Yes, we need both. But we also need DMCA takedowns that make sense (this one did not since it lacked detail), and we also need DMCA takedowns that are not abused. Add to that, we need DMCA takedowns that can be verified (there must be a real person that can be immediately contacted about it).

      If someone posts my book on a commercial site I'll be issuing more (noncommercial use, including torrents, will be free). But bullshit like Comcast is pulling should result in someone's incarceration.

      So do we have your support in making a law that counter balances the highly abusable DMCA?

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
    7. Re:Dear Comcast, fuck off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      "Update 7pm CET: Comcast’s Senior Director Corporate Communications, Jenni Moyer, responded and said we can disregard the cease and desist as it “was sent in error.” The company further apologized for any confusion it may have caused."

      https://torrentfreak.com/comcast-threatens-to-sue-torrentfreak-for-copyright-infringement-130821/

    8. Re:Dear Comcast, fuck off by jythie · · Score: 4, Informative

      No, but explanations and other added value content is. Sounds like people were not just taking facts, but instead duplicating entire pages and just changing the name from the poster to their own. I can actually recall seeing a lot of this type of plagiarism years ago, someone would write a walkthrough or FAQ and it would quickly show up in a number of places with the author's name changed to someone who wanted a little status or traffic.

    9. Re:Dear Comcast, fuck off by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 4, Informative

      There's an entire industry now in auto-rippiing help-based discussion forums (particular cars, appliances, anything) and re-wrapping the threads as-is with your own layout wrapper and then using Google promotion tricks to get your page ahead of the real forum. The fake forums have no log in or response capability, but as most older product issues are archive stage anyway, i.e. thread with full solution, no more than a reference page is all that's needed.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    10. Re:Dear Comcast, fuck off by mrclisdue · · Score: 2

      +1 Insightful? (at the time of this posting...)

      We joke about having an internet test for the low-hanging fruit out there, yet this poster totally misconstrues and misinterprets the original post, pulls a claim out of his ass, and also calls the gp a douche.

      And gets modded "Insightful". Perhaps the non-English-native-speaking mod meant "Inciteful."

      Some dumb mod should be undoing this mistake, but he's probably on Facebook now fawning over Bieber's new haircut.

      cheers,

    11. Re:Dear Comcast, fuck off by Calydor · · Score: 2

      You mean like the 'for Dummies' books?

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    12. Re:Dear Comcast, fuck off by luciano.moretti · · Score: 2

      Unfortunately, if you read the article it's just a lawyer "Cease & Desist" letter, not an actual DMCA take-down notice.

      This is like me sending you a letter saying "If you don't take down your post, I'm going to sue you". It's not an actual legal action, just a threat of legal action.

    13. Re:Dear Comcast, fuck off by Idarubicin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If we're going to have...DMCA take-down orders...

      Except that, if one reviews the linked article and comments, there does not seem to be a proper DMCA notice involved in this case.

      Comcast only sent a cease & desist letter. If one were feeling particularly cynical, one might suggest that Comcast did so to avoid the usual and proper response to a bogus DMCA notice: a counternotice from TorrentFreak to their web host, which would protect the host from liability and allow them to leave the content up. Instead, the web host is left holding a bag of "what do I do with this thing?" and TorrentFreak is left hanging.

      --
      ~Idarubicin
    14. Re:Dear Comcast, fuck off by ganjadude · · Score: 3

      in other words,

      " we saw the backlash and we dont want this to get any worse, pretend we never said anything, no harm no foul right?"

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    15. Re:Dear Comcast, fuck off by sg_oneill · · Score: 3, Funny

      Heh, though one rather clever one that I keep hitting, if you try to interact with it, claims your IP address has been blocked by the admin and supplies an address you can message for further information. I have a feeling it just dumps you into a spam list for sale or something.

      That'd be wikipedia, and they WARNED you about posting goatse, buddy.

      --
      Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
    16. Re:Dear Comcast, fuck off by Tokolosh · · Score: 4, Funny

      Dear Comcast, we were never confused.

      --
      Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
    17. Re:Dear Comcast, fuck off by Darinbob · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They did later say the order was sent "in error". I have run that through my corporate lingo translator. What it means is " we sent the order in order to intimidate you and were surprised that there was some push back and now wish to back down to avoid even more bad publicity."

      The thing is, all these companies rely on the situation where the ISP will instinctively pull a site down out of fear whenever a notice is received. Once the offending site is off the air then the company can say "oops" because they know the site will never come back up again. Copyright has absolutely zero relevance here, and DMCA as well has nothing whatsoever to do with copyright. This is purely 100% about intimidation. There is no legal system here, no judge to determine if it is appropriate or not, the law is left out of the loop. In fact the threat of actually having to pay to have the case heard in the legal system is what frightens the victims.

      The mob goes around saying "it'd be a shame if something happened to your store" but at least they're locals, they have a face, and have colorful amusing nicknames. But corporations are faceless brick walls with no humor who threaten us from a distance.

    18. Re:Dear Comcast, fuck off by Darinbob · · Score: 2

      There is no judge here. This is DMCA takedown notice. No judge needs to approve the take down letter in advance. It's basically a document sent to an ISP that says "I will sue you for enough money that you'll be forced to go out of business even if you win the case unless you remove our enemy Joe Blow from your network."

    19. Re:Dear Comcast, fuck off by Teancum · · Score: 2

      Comcast did come groveling back and apologized for sending the C&D notice, informing Torrent Freak that they should disregard the notice.

      At least somebody got smart.

    20. Re:Dear Comcast, fuck off by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 2

      "However, personal experience tells me we need takedowns of infringing material."

      Takedowns are one thing. But takedowns before you demonstrate genuine cause have pretty much proven themselves to do far more damage than good.

      The OLD system we had, in which you had to show copyright violations before you could restrain someone else, worked BETTER than the current system. Granted, violations happened. But the abuse has gone so far in the other direction now that I think we can safely say that nearly everything about the DMCA is bad. It does offer some "safe harbors", but those safe harbors would not even be necessary if it weren't for the other, bad parts of the DMCA.

      "Without takedowns there would have been nothing I could do about it."

      Nonsense. You could sue for copyright violation, the same as everybody else did for the past 200 years, including AFTER the Internet became a household thing (but before DMCA).

    21. Re:Dear Comcast, fuck off by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 2

      "... and we also need DMCA takedowns that are not abused..."

      The ONLY way to have "DMCA takedowns that are not abused" is to force people to actually show cause BEFORE they can take something down.

      But hey... wait a minute! That's the way the law was before the DMCA existed!

      Getting rid of the DMCA is by far the best way to go. There are just too many things about it that suck, big time, and have made everything worse.

      Things worked BETTER before DMCA. Ergo, they will work better again once we get rid of it.

    22. Re:Dear Comcast, fuck off by Idarubicin · · Score: 2

      If you know of some magic wording that the laws says has to be spouted for it to be an "official" takedown, please enlighten us.

      The six specific elements required of a takedown notice are enumerated in section 512(c)(3)(A) of Title 17. There's a bit of explanatory commentary from Plagiarism Today that might help you to understand the relevant passages.

      The cease & desist email quoted by TorrentFreak omits at least three of the required six elements - (ii), (iii), and (vi) - and element (v) is at best implied rather than explicitly stated.

      I'm glad I was able to enlighten you.

      --
      ~Idarubicin
    23. Re:Dear Comcast, fuck off by Shagg · · Score: 2

      Exactly. The entire point of the DMCA is to bypass the existing legal process. It was designed to be abused.

      --
      Unix is user friendly, it's just selective about who its friends are.
  2. fair use by shentino · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Of all things, court proceedings are one of the few exceptions to copyright law.

    And if the lawyer who sent this notice doesn't know that, then someone at the bar association screwed up big time giving this guy a license to practice.

    1. Re:fair use by intermodal · · Score: 2

      Unfortunately, the host seems as smart as the lawyer, considering they're threatening to shut down the server according to the synopsis.

      --
      In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
    2. Re:fair use by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Unfortunately, the host seems as smart as the lawyer, considering they're threatening to shut down the server according to the synopsis.

      Because it's easier for the hosting company to just say "fuck it, not my problem".

      This is what happens when the DMCA tells you that if you comply with a takedown, you are off the hook.

      The law is written in such a way that the hosting company has no incentive to care.

      That nobody seems to be doling out punishments for false takedowns is the big problem -- because apparently you can claim almost anything belongs to you with neither facts nor evidence on your side.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    3. Re:fair use by DeathToBill · · Score: 2

      Filings with the court are not subject to copyright. What about exhibits? I think they can be still subject to copyright. Think about it. Suppose exhibits to court cases were not subject to copyright. Suppose I copy your book. You decide to sue me for copyright. The book I copied will necessarily be an exhibit in the case. Exhibits in cases are not subject to copyright, so now by suing for copyright infringement you've put your book in the public domain.

      While some people would like copyright law to work this way, I'm pretty sure it doesn't.

      Of course I haven't read TFA, so have no idea whether the "letter" that TorrentFreak was hosting is a letter to the court (not subject to copyright) or a letter to someone else which was later submitted to the court (possibly subject to copyright).

      --
      Slashdot - News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters, in ISO-8859-1 Has just realised that beta makes this signature redundant
    4. Re:fair use by snadrus · · Score: 4, Insightful

      False takedowns are a felony that maybe a Comcast lawyer should experience, you know, to be made an example of.

      --
      Science & open-source build trust from peer review. Learn systems you can trust.
    5. Re:fair use by DeathToBill · · Score: 4, Informative

      Okay, now I've read TFA; the document in question is a court filing and definitely not subject to copyright.

      --
      Slashdot - News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters, in ISO-8859-1 Has just realised that beta makes this signature redundant
    6. Re:fair use by cdrudge · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you read the actual message they sent TorrentFreak, the ISP isn't as bad as the summary makes them out to be. The ISP said that TF needs to take appropriate action and need to respond back with the action taken. No where did it specifically state that the action had to be removal of the scanned letter.

      The ISP isn't in and doesn't want to be in a position where they are the legal department for all their customers trying to determine if each and every notice is legitimate especially in very specific incidents like this. They just want to know that you a. received the notice and b. have taken some action regarding it. That's all they are really concerned about and all they are required to do under the DMCA.

      It would be appropriate and satisfy all parties if TF responded to the ISP stating that they contacted Comcast/Cyveillance, asserted their right to use the content under fair use/public domain/whatever, and that it would not be coming down. Appropriate action would be then taken.

    7. Re:fair use by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Informative

      False takedowns are a felony that maybe a Comcast lawyer should experience, you know, to be made an example of.

      And yet, I don't believe a single person has been charged for it that I've hear of, even when it seems pretty blatant to the rest of us.

      Apparently all you have to do is claim you did it in good faith or there was a clerical error ... presto, you're off the hook.

      It's a system written by, and for the benefit of, copyright holders -- and they seem to be presumed innocent unless you can absolutely prove otherwise. Not just that they're stupid or incompetent.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    8. Re:fair use by bmo · · Score: 2

      False takedowns are a felony

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n5E7feJHw0

      --
      BMO

    9. Re:fair use by shentino · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sadly it depends on jurisdiction.

      In the US, it is not loser pays unless the judge says so, and it's typically reserved for egregious or malicious prosecution.

      Also, even if they get their legal fees back, they're still in the hole until then.

      It's a lot like being on a deflated raft and trying not to sink. if you steal some air out of the raft to breathe, and you wind up sinking, it's too late to reinflate the raft.

    10. Re:fair use by shentino · · Score: 2

      The host is an independent third party that already reserves the right to terminate access at its sole discretion regardless of the merits of the case.

      Most businesses have a standard "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" and they can invoke that right for any reason whatsoever that is not prohibited by law.

      Cutting someone off because someone else threatened you for hosting them is a dick move, but it's not illegal.

    11. Re:fair use by AliasMarlowe · · Score: 2

      If TF wins, then they're entitled to attorney fees and lost money.
      That's lawsuit 101. Loser pays.

      "Loser pays" is the rule in the UK and a number of other places. It is by no means the rule in the US, unless the court rejects the charges "with prejudice", thus allowing the cleared defendant to launch a separate legal action to recover their legal costs (success is not guaranteed).

      --
      Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
    12. Re:fair use by DigitAl56K · · Score: 2

      Apparently all you have to do is claim you did it in good faith or there was a clerical error ... presto, you're off the hook.

      Maybe that's easier to believe when you have automation software scrubbing YouTube for possibly infringing material and you have tens of thousands of copyright works to protect. When you're a lawyer dealing with one very specific public court document, it seems to me like it might be harder to play off.

    13. Re:fair use by intermodal · · Score: 2

      I did read it, I was simply pointing out that such a letter had been issued. A case need not have merit to be a giant hassle for those involved.

      --
      In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
    14. Re:fair use by gstoddart · · Score: 2

      When you're a lawyer dealing with one very specific public court document, it seems to me like it might be harder to play off.

      Oh, I'm not disagreeing with you - I'm just saying based on what we've seen of these in the past, nobody even makes an attempt to enforce it.

      I suspect that nobody is interested in prosecuting these things because they're too beholden to the content owners.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    15. Re:fair use by portwojc · · Score: 2

      When has a false take down notice ever hurt, really hurt, the person/group/whatever making the claim?

    16. Re:fair use by Skapare · · Score: 3, Informative

      If they do that, then they must not charge the customer any more money. Many ISPs, however, have reacted to customers abandoning them due to invalid takedowns by charging them with the remainder of the contract, and sending that out to debt collectors. These are ISPs that need to be boycotted when they do things like this as a result of invalid takedowns.

      --
      now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
    17. Re:fair use by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      No, false takedowns are in general not a felony. The DMCA is craftily worded such that the only thing that is perjury is if you misrepresent who hired you to file the takedown request.

      I file a takedown claiming to represent Sony asking to take down Sony's material == perjury.

      Sony files a takedown (as Sony) asking to take down my work which they don't own: not perjury.

      That is how the law is written.

      BTW, if you file a counterclaim, then 100% of it is covered under a perjury clause. So much for equality under the law.

    18. Re:fair use by dcollins117 · · Score: 2

      Apparently all you have to do is claim you did it in good faith or there was a clerical error ... presto, you're off the hook.

      Bingo! you win a prize. Torrentfreak just posted an email they recieved from Comcast claiming the cease and desist notice was sent "in error".

    19. Re:fair use by Svartalf · · Score: 2

      Sue 'em for breach of agreement. Quite simple, really. Much like the horse boarding facility in Texas found out- you breach the agreement on YOUR end, you can't expect anything from the other party in return.

      Here's some of the news involved with what I'm talking to:

      Court Affirms Judgement Allowing Boarders to Move Horses Due to Stable Employees Smoking In Barn

      --
      I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
  3. SLAPP laws by intermodal · · Score: 2

    This is where SLAPP laws come into play.

    --
    In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
  4. Fall in line by Unknown1337 · · Score: 2

    This just joins the long list of who cares copyright infringement notices that all major companies seem to think is necessary. I sure hope some CEOs and/or legal departments grow up soon, because I've had enough of everyone suing everyone over such insignificant crap. Especially when the reasoning is nill.

  5. Re:Comcast made a mistake.... by snadrus · · Score: 2

    Countersue the legal representation and win by default since DMCA use doesn't apply to content you don't own copyright on?

    --
    Science & open-source build trust from peer review. Learn systems you can trust.
  6. Why not off-shore uploads? by sl4shd0rk · · Score: 2

    eg:
    upload to mega.co.nz
    publish to mega-search.me

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    Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
  7. Re:Expropriate Comcast under a workers government! by dicobalt · · Score: 4, Funny

    Comcastic!

  8. Re:Public domain by Jason+Levine · · Score: 2

    I'd agree that they drastically hurt their case by running the honeypot, but I'd take issue with calling putting stuff online "placing it in the public domain." There seems to be a mistaken notion that a lot of people have that things on the Internet are automatically public domain for anyone to use in anyway they like. This is completely false. You can't just use Google Images, find a photo you like, and place it in an ad campaign/blog post/whatever. You can't just take some text that someone wrote and republish all of it in a book. Copyright DOES exist online. It doesn't go away just because the method used for conveying the item is digital versus print.

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  9. The ISP threat by Skapare · · Score: 4, Informative

    The ISP threat contains the wording "PLEASE NOTIFY US WITHIN 24 HOURS WITH TAKEN ACTIONS". They did NOT say what actions need to be taken, other than to notify them. So notify them of exactly what actions were taken. Say "We have removed each piece of content listed in the referenced complaint. Since there were no items listed in the referenced complaint (see the referenced complaint yourself and you will see there there are none), there were no items removed and we have asked the complainant to provide us with the list. We will provide you with a copy of that list when we receive it. If you receive the list before we do, please send a copy of it to us as quickly as possible so we may act on it. For now, our actions are therefore complete.".

    --
    now we need to go OSS in diesel cars
  10. Re:Expropriate Comcast under a workers government! by DragonTHC · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I would absolutely love to see this go to court. Please, oh please let this go to court. Let Comcast seek damages for your posting of public court documents.

    --
    They're using their grammar skills there.
  11. The reality of your plagarized website by Zontar_Thing_From_Ve · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I am going to be the cold, hard dose of reality in your situation.

    Takedown laws do not exist so one of the unwashed masses (this means you ) can protect their content. They exist so big business can protect whatever the the intellectual property du jour is that they want to be protected.

    I can assure you that nobody in the government or judicial system has any interest at all in protecting situations like your web content. Don't know how you missed the memo, but the laws are for the benefit of the rich and corporations. If you were one of those, you'd be protected.

    1. Re:The reality of your plagarized website by mcgrew · · Score: 2

      But the law did offer protection, the offending material was taken down. It did, in fact, protect the work of a hobbyist.

  12. Re:Expropriate Comcast under a workers government! by Muros · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I would absolutely love to see this go to court. Please, oh please let this go to court. Let Comcast seek damages for your posting of public court documents.

    Never going to happen. These clowns (Comcast's lawyers), as soon as they saw the website was contesting it, realised that this particular line of bullshit litigation would be shot down in flames immediately by the first judge who saw it. Its one thing being creative with interpreting laws relating to technology and explaining it to old men with no idea what you're talking about, quite another trying to do the same with legal procedure to a guy who both knows damn well how the law works, and has the power to slap you down if he thinks you're trying to step on his toes.

  13. Re:F Comcast by HiThere · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Sorry, but we don''t *know* it wasn't an accident. We suspect that it wasn't. It may be a very strong suspicion, but that's not proof. A public appology would be a strong case that they regretted the action, but I can't think of anything that would count as proof that it was an accident.

    OTOH, I don't even expect a public appology. And THAT'S not proof that it was intentional. Proof that it was intentional would require something like a note from a manager to the legal department, which isn't to be expected even if it happened.

    At the moment you can reasonably decide either to believe them, or to consider them bare-fced liars (or both). The evidence isn't conclusive.

    --

    I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
  14. Court records by nurb432 · · Score: 2

    Are owned by the people. Unless sealed they are public domain.

    Everyone print a copy and mail it to Comcast, COD.

    --
    ---- Booth was a patriot ----
  15. The U.S. legal system is a zombie by runeghost · · Score: 2

    Rule of law in the U.S. is dead, it just hasn't stopped moving yet. And when it does act, often it is against the interests of the the public and the country as a whole. The cause of America's legal abomination is the same as many of the country's other ills: massive corporations.