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How One Man Turns Annoying Cold Calls Into Cash

First time accepted submitter georgeaperkins writes "A man targeted by marketing companies is making money from cold calls with his own premium-rate phone number. So far he's made £300 profit following a £10+VAT initial investment. The premium rate regulator has 'strongly discouraged' the practice, as it violates the code of practice. Nevertheless, the novel idea is sure to resonate with everyone worn down by mindless cold calling!"

227 comments

  1. So Full Of Win! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is epic win.

    1. Re:So Full Of Win! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Epic it is!

    2. Re:So Full Of Win! by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      It's just a shame he could only make 7p/minute from it. What happened to £1/minute premium rate lines?

      By the way, my free time is worth approximately £100/minute, in case anyone wanted to call me about PPI insurance.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    3. Re:So Full Of Win! by Zarjazz · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's just a shame he could only make 7p/minute from it. What happened to £1/minute premium rate lines?

      This isn't a new trick to me since I work for a telco that provides the infrastructure for a lot of these cold callers, I've seen it before.

      The premium rate 09 lines you are talking about are separately regulated and abuse is prosecuted. However the guy missed an opportunity here. He should have actually chosen an 070 number which is allocated by Ofcom for use of Personal Numbering Services, these can cost 50p - £1 to call. But since they start 07 most people think it's just another mobile number.

    4. Re:So Full Of Win! by shortscruffydave · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's just a shame he could only make 7p/minute from it. What happened to £1/minute premium rate lines?

      Actually, going for a cheaper rate is a smart move. A lot of companies block outgoing calls to >=£1/minute numbers, but something in the region of 10p/minute could slip through those filters....that allows him to get - and make money from - calls that he might not get if he'd gone for a more expensive line. And yes, I agree - epic win

    5. Re:So Full Of Win! by Dogtanian · · Score: 1

      It's just a shame he could only make 7p/minute from it.

      7p per minute is 60 x 7 = £4.20 an hour (US $6.52). That's only two-thirds of the UK national minimum wage of £6.19 and below even the lowest US minimum wage of $7.52.

      Of course, if he could leave them hanging on the phone at that rate, or not bothering him, that'd be different.

      --
      "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
    6. Re:So Full Of Win! by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Fantastic, how do I sign up? £1 is only 1/100th my normal rate but still better than 7p.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    7. Re:So Full Of Win! by hoboroadie · · Score: 2

      I often tell them I'm off to get whomever they claim to be calling, then get busy, back to doing whatever it was before the interruption. For that level of service, $6.5 is almost reasonable.

      --
      They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
    8. Re:So Full Of Win! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Until he gets sued.

    9. Re:So Full Of Win! by ultranova · · Score: 1

      By the way, my free time is worth approximately ã100/minute,

      You meant your answering machine's time, right? And with phone lines being digital nowadays, is there some reason you can't get, say, 1000 numbers all connecting to the same machine configured to pick up and slam immediately? Maybe something running on a Rasberry Pi...

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    10. Re:So Full Of Win! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Lowest US minimum wage is $7.25.

    11. Re:So Full Of Win! by Ksevio · · Score: 2

      Your normal rate is £100/min? I gotta get into that industry!

    12. Re:So Full Of Win! by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      For my free time, yes it is. I consider cold calls to be my out-of-hours contract rate.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    13. Re:So Full Of Win! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You just need to remember to do the process of tickling the line, that is, saying thinks like, "almost got him" or "just a little longer" or do rustling sounds. Even better for the guy is if he puts an asterisk system that can do that automatically to keep them on the line. I'm sure he could find scripts that are already to go.

    14. Re: So Full Of Win! by EricTheRed · · Score: 1

      As in asterisk which does run on a pi.

      Not got round to using it myself but there's a plug in for that or even worse the - press 1 for thus, press 2 for that bit functionality.

      --
      Java gaming nut - http://www.retep.org/ or for the rail http://uktra.in/
    15. Re:So Full Of Win! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've been doing this for over a decade now.
      The trick this guy missed was not advertising too the whole world.
      Now, it will become common knowledge and ruin it for the rest of us.

      Curious, where would I get an 070 premium number from?
      Live off grid, so it would have to terminate with voip I can run over my sat link.

    16. Re:So Full Of Win! by OhSoLaMeow · · Score: 1

      Lowest US minimum wage is $7.25.

      So Dogtanian is dyslexic.

      --
      They can take my LifeAlert pendant when they pry it from my cold dead fingers.
    17. Re:So Full Of Win! by Dogtanian · · Score: 1

      My mistake; I looked it up on Wikipedia, but obviously memorised or typed it out wrong.

      --
      "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
    18. Re:So Full Of Win! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, he could extend the service to some of his friends. If you can ignore one line, you can also ignore 10 lines at the same time...

    19. Re:So Full Of Win! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's easy! First, you gotta have your front teeth removed, and then become accustomed to the taste of penis.

    20. Re:So Full Of Win! by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      That's only two-thirds of the UK national minimum wage of £6.19

      Is there anything stopping him from having several lines going at once?

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    21. Re:So Full Of Win! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He should have actually chosen an 070 number which is allocated by Ofcom for use of Personal Numbering Services, these can cost 50p - £1 to call. But since they start 07 most people think it's just another mobile number.

      Except revenue share was removed from 070 numbers in 2009.

  2. Billing bill collectors? by dicobalt · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Now that's an idea.

  3. Code of practice? by korbulon · · Score: 5, Funny

    Well I guess even whores have a code of practice.

    1. Re:Code of practice? by voss · · Score: 5, Funny

      Comparing regulators to prostitutes is really unfair to prostitutes.

    2. Re:Code of practice? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      taking pot-shots at the monumentally, epically difficult jobs of regulators is lazy comedy.

      / no, i am not a regulator, but I know what they do.

    3. Re:Code of practice? by FireFury03 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      taking pot-shots at the monumentally, epically difficult jobs of regulators is lazy comedy.

      / no, i am not a regulator, but I know what they do.

      I would have more sympathy if the regulator's response to flagrant law-breaking wasn't always simply to write a "stongly worded" letter to the company responsible, reminding them of their legal obligations. I dunno, but if I personally broke the law, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't get a letter reminding me that what I did was illegal and told not to do it again, especially if I'm doing the law breaking on a large and organised scale...

    4. Re:Code of practice? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They just haven't noticed he's a person not a business.
      If you personally broke the law, you get bubba up inside you for five to twenty years.
      If a business does it on a large and organized scale, bad, bad business. shouldn't do that. Feel bad. Feel bad? Good, we're done here, you can keep doing it now. Campaign contributions maybe? awww, so sweet, thank you.

    5. Re:Code of practice? by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

      taking pot-shots at the monumentally, epically difficult jobs of regulators is lazy comedy.

      / no, i am not a regulator, but I know what they do.

      Presumably they regulate...

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    6. Re:Code of practice? by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

      Easy, he can start a business named "Fuck You Cold Callers, Inc".

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    7. Re:Code of practice? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You seem to suffer under the impression that regulators make the regulations. It's a bit like hating the police for enforcing the law.

    8. Re:Code of practice? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Awwwwww Yeaaaaaa! Boyeeeee! Its time to regulate on their ass!

      Flava Flav is a regulator, right?

    9. Re:Code of practice? by Tokolosh · · Score: 2

      What regulators do, is get captured.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture

      --
      Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
    10. Re:Code of practice? by Dishevel · · Score: 2
      The real issue is that regulators are government workers.

      We all know that government workers are shit. Sometimes they are government workers because they are shit and sometimes government work turns them into shit.

      Either way you end up with really expensive and intrusive shit.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    11. Re: Code of practice? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'm a 7805, so I know what it's like. It's easy to become envious of the regulators that have more interesting jobs, like the LM317s, but the added responsibility wouldn't be worth it.

    12. Re:Code of practice? by Zordak · · Score: 1

      taking pot-shots at the monumentally, epically difficult jobs of regulators is lazy comedy.

      / no, i am not a regulator, but I know what they do.

      Presumably they regulate...

      Regulators tend instead to end up in bed with the folks they're supposedly regulating (both literally and figuratively). Your top-tier regulators do a lot more golfing than regulating.

      --

      Today's Sesame Street was brought to you by the number e.
    13. Re:Code of practice? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Warren G was at least...

      Regulaaaaaatooors!.... Mount up...

    14. Re: Code of practice? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Whores (generally) like repeat custom. More income for relatively low additional risk. Cold-callers OTOH generally go for anal fisting on a first date. I like this guy's idea.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    15. Re:Code of practice? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Assuming they're actually a regulator and not a trade association who calls themselves a regulator and refuses to answer FOI requests.

    16. Re: Code of practice? by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      Whereas employees of private companies are all aces, right? Whether it's the guys who came up with New Coke or the guys who came up with Windows 8 or the guys whodo the offshore drilling for BP in the Gulf or the guys behind whatever is the latest leak of millions of people's private records or the salesperson at the cellphone store waiting his shot at the used car sales biz or the guys who run cruise ship lines or........

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
    17. Re:Code of practice? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      They just haven't noticed he's a person not a business. If you personally broke the law,

      Which law is he breaking?

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    18. Re: Code of practice? by Dishevel · · Score: 1
      You can get a few good or bad employees in both of course. But you can not be so blinded by your love of government to not notice that Every Government Agency Runs Like Shit!

      Everyone of them. Government is where good intentions go to become evil regulations.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    19. Re: Code of practice? by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      Let's see; keeping us from getting cholera etc from our drinking water, putting out fires, insuring bank accounts, reducing workplace injuries, keeping various toxins and organisms out of the food supply, maintaining safe and effective pharmaceuticals, creating and maintaining the highway system, funding basic scientific research, maintaining fiduciary responsibility in financial institutions, keeping the general incidence of public violence down, eliminating the high incidence of poverty among the elderly, keeping air travel safe, eliminating starvation, eliminating smallpox, polio, measles, reducing consumer fraud, the GI Bill, public libraries, vehicle registration, building codes, licensing of professionals, I.e. doctors, dentists, engineers, etc, soil conservation, stabilizing the business cycle, children's welfare, I.e.school lunches, head start, SCHIP, emergency services, ...
      Sure, none of these are done perfectly, but they're done adequately for the function of society; for contrast look at all the countries which don't bother with these functions. It's great to be a rich person in the developing world, but not so great if you have no guarantee that your savings account won't vanish, or that the president's cousin won't steal your startup if it gets profitable, or that the steel you buy is of correct tensile strength, or that your employees are educated and healthy.
      These are tasks that private companies won't or can't take on for any amount, mostly due to the vast scales involved. The wonder is how well the government agencies do, with a hugely overworked and underpaid staff.
      Of course, the previous administration's attempts to privatize the military ended the suggestions that private companies could do that particular function better.

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
    20. Re: Code of practice? by Dishevel · · Score: 1

      Blah, Blah, Blah

      Yes there are many funtions we need a government for. What does that have to do with the fact that they suck at it?

      Sure, none of these are done perfectly, but they're done adequately for the function of society;

      No. It is not adequate. They are expensive and bad at it. It took FEMA 5 days to get water to the people in the stadium. Not "Because "Bush". Because government sucks at doing things. So you want them doing only a very few things that only government should do. Because THEY SUCK!

      for contrast look at all the countries which don't bother with these functions.

      So where there is no functioning government "Things Suck". That is the argument you are making to tell me how great government employees are?

      It's great to be a rich person in the developing world, but not so great if you have no guarantee that your savings account won't vanish, or that the president's cousin won't steal your startup if it gets profitable, or that the steel you buy is of correct tensile strength, or that your employees are educated and healthy.

      It is funny to me that you think those things do not happen now.

      These are tasks that private companies won't or can't take on for any amount, mostly due to the vast scales involved.

      Underwriters Laboratory. Look it up.

      The wonder is how well the government agencies do, with a hugely overworked and underpaid staff.

      Citation Needed. Mostly because the pay plus benefits of government employees are above that of private workers.

      Of course, the previous administration's attempts to privatize the military ended the suggestions that private companies could do that particular function better.

      Oh good. "But Bush!". Glad you got that in there. That really helped pull together your argument.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
  4. Conversation by StripedCow · · Score: 5, Funny

    "I'm calling because I'm selling this great new product that can save you time and money."

    "Now that sounds very interesting! Could you hang on for a moment, I'll be back in a minute."

    ** leaves phone off hook **

    --
    If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
    1. Re:Conversation by StripedCow · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Now, premium rate phone number or not, if this is how ALL people treated markteers, then there would be no more cold calling.
      Quite simple if you think about it.

      --
      If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
    2. Re:Conversation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We need this for email.

    3. Re:Conversation by ciderbrew · · Score: 0

      I send back an email with an invoice for using my machine if they persist to send me emails.

    4. Re:Conversation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      I send back an email to confirm to the spammers that this is an active email account

      FTFY

    5. Re:Conversation by marcansoft · · Score: 5, Funny

      I started doing this after getting a dozen Vodafone marketing calls. Except instead of just leaving the phone off-hook, I said "please hold while I transfer you" and then treated them to an endless random shuffle of Never Gonna Give you Up, Friday, Trololo, Caramelldansen, and Nyan Cat, played via a voice modem.

      They stopped calling after they got that a couple of times.

    6. Re:Conversation by jamesh · · Score: 5, Interesting

      "Hang on I'll just get my credit card" is likely to keep them waiting for longer

    7. Re:Conversation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I left the phone 'off the hook' once after I had said "no thanks, not interested" 3 times. Half an hour later I get a call from my mom saying this guy had called several people with the same last name because he thought something had happened to me.......

    8. Re:Conversation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Since the "From" address rarely is the true spammer's address, the answer mail will not inform the spammer about anything. If the mail address works, it will likely go to someone completely unrelated.

    9. Re:Conversation by gbjbaanb · · Score: 1

      as TFA says, after implementing this the number of cold calls dropped from 30 per month to 13.

      The regulator says you have to be transparent about the cost, so personally, I'd always make sure I read out a pre-written information sheet that informed the caller that he was being charged, and why, and what my policies about charging were, and how they didn't impact on the rights of the caller, and... well you get the idea :)

    10. Re:Conversation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      D'uh, you forgot Leekspin.

    11. Re:Conversation by mcgrew · · Score: 2

      That's what my dad does. He doesn't say "hang on a minute", when they start their spiel he puts the phone down and when it finally goes BEEP BEEP BEEP he hangs it up.

      I don't have a landline so I get few of these. I just curse them in the vilest language for calling cell phones when it may cost the person they're calling. I never leave my cell # with any commercial entity, but leave my work # instead. Not sure what I'll do when I retire.

    12. Re:Conversation by Defenestrar · · Score: 2

      Yes - they are humans on the other end of that line working in what I believe is the highest turn-over industry out there (at least I think that's true for the US, and I think the highest turnover sub-set among cold-callers is those who are on the debt-collection calls). I don't know what the turn-over rate is in the UK, but I suspect it's probably about the same.

    13. Re:Conversation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unfortunately since they already delivered a message to an SMTP and got a 250/OK response to begin with, they already know its a real account.

    14. Re:Conversation by schwit1 · · Score: 1

      If this became the norm the cold call lobby would influence their legislators to force the telcos to give them an exception.

    15. Re:Conversation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't this fraud?

    16. Re:Conversation by rusty0101 · · Score: 1

      Let them know that your number is 966-gay-pr0n (966-429-7726). You weren't looking for a cut of the fees were you?

      --
      You never know...
    17. Re:Conversation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      No they aren't humans. They gave up their humanity when they took a job where they got paid for causing people harm.

      100% of the products advertised through telemarketing (and other direct advertising) are scams.

      These practices should be illegal because they take a public good, modern communication systems, and decreases their value by increasing the noise/signal ratio for personal profit.

    18. Re:Conversation by NatasRevol · · Score: 2

      How does 0 translate to 2?

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    19. Re:Conversation by nine-times · · Score: 1

      Or transfer them to a recording of you saying, "Ok, I'm back!" followed by silence interspersed with an occasional "Ah" or "uh-huh" or "yes, I see...."

    20. Re:Conversation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, all they know is that the server didn't reject it. They don't know if it deletes it right away (spam filters can do that, for example). And even if not, they don't know whether it is an account anybody reads, or an account just there to receive spam (and potentially train a spam filter on it).

    21. Re:Conversation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yep. Because someone making minimum wage for 15 hours a week because they grew up in poverty and have no skill set doesn't deserve to be considered a human. Someone who can't find work anywhere but a temp agency and gets completely exploited as the company they're being contracted out to doesn't have to abide by the usual labor laws is most certainly not to be considered human.

      When I order a burger from McDonalds, I'm ordering it from nigger-cattle. Apes. Certainly not humans.

      Fuck off, ass hole.

    22. Re:Conversation by pr0fessor · · Score: 1

      We have some inbound call centers {customer service and tech support} and some of our people left when another company opened an outbound sales center in the area thinking they could make more on commission. After two or three months they all wanted to come back about half were told no.

    23. Re:Conversation by nschubach · · Score: 1

      You probably don't want a 'yes' in there unless you want them recording you agreeing to something.

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    24. Re:Conversation by thoromyr · · Score: 1

      are you talking about the military? law enforcement? prison guards? And those are just the obvious ones -- really there are a lot people in jobs where they get paid "for causing people harm".

      The fact that this tripe got modded insightful is even worse than the post itself.

      In the US, unless it is an illegal operation, odds are very good that the cold caller is a telco employee. For Sprint, et all, its just another service they offer: low paid "employees" who only keep the "job" until they can get something better. If you don't like the system don't rail at the people who took it to make some money until they got a better job: complain about the telcos who charge for privacy (unlisted numbers) and then charge the marketers more for lists that include the unlisted numbers.

    25. Re:Conversation by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      No, they know it's an account that accepts email. They don't even know that it delivers mail to a mail spool somewhere, let alone that a human reads it until someone replies...

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    26. Re:Conversation by johanw · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Some poor people become pot dealers, some become telemarketeers. The difference between those two is that there is an actual demand for the services of the first.

    27. Re:Conversation by mrclisdue · · Score: 1

      Rounding!

      cheers,

    28. Re:Conversation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think you definitely need a "Sorry, I didn't quite get that last bit. Can you explain it to me again please?" in there.

    29. Re:Conversation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you want to do this right you have to listen to the pitch for a minute, then say "that sounds great, just let me go and get my credit card..."
      I've come back after 10 minutes and heard "hello? hello? are you there?" coming out of the handset.

    30. Re:Conversation by Jmc23 · · Score: 1

      um, that's the USian dream isn't it? Climb to the top by stepping on those below you? Can't think of anything that hasn't harmed others will benefiting the US.

      --
      Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
    31. Re:Conversation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      With us they ususally get one free call where I ask them to take their number off the list after that either the call gets ignored or i just hang up more or less immediately, Sometimes the phone gets handed to our three year old for his input. I too have played muzac doen the phone. On one occassion when someone calling about "an exciting investment opportunity" three times in as many minutes I said "hang on a minute, I'm in the middle of something and played porn down the line at them.

      Or like a friend you can take the opposite approach, he stayed on the line and booked an appointlment to get an estimate for a large conservatory.
      His address was 3F2 ....I think he stayed in for the appointment but noone showed up, presumably the salesman had more sense than whoever was making the calls.

    32. Re:Conversation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And then you have to declare this invoice as income even if you don't collect on it.

      Unless you subsequently write it off as bad debt

      I imagine you don't do either which is fine until someone uses your invoice as an expense claim on their taxes and the audit comes to your door....

    33. Re:Conversation by pspahn · · Score: 1

      ...and with Amendment 64, et al, pot dealers are finding themselves out of a job as well.

      Here in Denver, the black market dealers that like to hang around Colfax are not very pleased their career has gone south.

      --
      Someone flopped a steamer in the gene pool.
    34. Re:Conversation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Your assumption that people have a right to inconvenience my life 'because they are poor' is absurd. You might as well let gang bangers and and someone who steals my car off the hook because 'they were born into it' or 'had no choice'. The fact that cold calling scumbags aren't actually breaking the law is irrelevant. Unlike those assholes, the people working at Mcdonalds aren't pissing me off to make money, they are providing a service.

    35. Re:Conversation by houghi · · Score: 1

      http://egbg.home.xs4all.nl/counterscript.html

      In Belgium you can add yourself to the http://www.robinsonlist.be/ and not get any calls anymore. This needs to be refreshed after two years. A list like this is European law.

      For the UK i found http://www.tpsonline.org.uk/tps/index.html that says:
      It is a legal requirement that all organisations (including charities, voluntary organisations and political parties) do not make such calls to numbers registered on the TPS unless they have your consent to do so.

      Also see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_not_call_list for a few other countries.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    36. Re:Conversation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I always do the "Sounds interesting, oh someone's at the door. Can you hold on for a second?". Keep them on the line and tie up their line. When really bored I actually talk to them about my being so depressed I'm thinking of ending it all. On occasion I spew terrorist speech about blowing up tall buildings with a single bomb.

      The really fun ones are the "credit card debt consolidation". After listening to their spiel about how they can reduce the rate I pay to 5% from the 20% most credit cards I either give them a phony card number or tell them that I NEVER CARRY A BALANCE.

      I have too much time on my hands :)

    37. Re:Conversation by DirtyLiar · · Score: 1

      I screen all my calls, so if they can't be bothered to tell me what they want, I can't be bothered to pick up.

      And if they think they can force me to answer the phone by letting it ring until the machine picks it up, then hanging up and calling back, I just turn the ringer off.

      In fact, that's EXACTLY what I say in my outgoing message.

      I haven't been bothered with cold calls for 15 years.

      --

      THINK! It's patriotic

    38. Re:Conversation by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      In Belgium you can add yourself to the http://www.robinsonlist.be/ and not get any calls anymore. This needs to be refreshed after two years. A list like this is European law.

      For the UK i found http://www.tpsonline.org.uk/tps/index.html that says:

      Yeah, yeah, yeah. And when I moved to this house, I registered with the TPS. In consequence, the only cold calls I get (10 a day is not uncommon) are from companies calling from the Philippines or India. I can only deduce that the previous occupants had got onto a number of "sucker lists". What the half-life of these lists is, I don't know, but it certainly seems to be more than a year.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    39. Re:Conversation by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Yes - they are humans on the other end of that line working in what I believe is the highest turn-over industry out there

      Excuse me for a second while I check the back of my underpants ...

      Nope, I can confirm that I don't give a shit.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    40. Re:Conversation by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      pot dealers are finding themselves out of a job as well.

      Excuse me for a second while I check the back of my underpants ...

      Nope, I can confirm that I don't give a shit.

      Though I am pleased to be able to re-use a post.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  5. and why not? by sociocapitalist · · Score: 2

    Anyone understand how this violates the 'code of practice' and if such a violation is just frowned upon or is actually illegal ?

    --
    blindly antisocialist = antisocial
    1. Re:and why not? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Premium numbers must always be accompanied by pricing information (consumer protection laws). This guy probably just puts his premium number into forms without giving pricing information.

    2. Re:and why not? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      Yes, because I RTFA. Try it.

    3. Re:and why not? by ciderbrew · · Score: 1

      the forms don't have a space for the prices. They don't care about the price.

    4. Re:and why not? by Xest · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Businesses have often lobbied for codes of practice to be unenforceable so that nothing comes of them if they breach them so I doubt this is illegal, he'll just get a telling off from the regulator - as if he gives a shit.

      It breaks the code of practice supposedly because you have to list pricing information alongside premium rate numbers and when he fills in the forms for his phone number etc. there is no form field to do this.

      But I'm not convinced the code even applies, because the pricing information is meant for consumers and he's only giving these details to businesses who tend not to be covered by consumer protection laws (they're not protected by the sale of goods act for example).

      I think this is more the regulator trying to avoid a headache than him actually doing anything wrong. I'd be surprised if any enforcement could actually be taken against him successfully which is presumably why the regulator has said "We advise against this" rather than "We're going to have a word with him and make him stop because he's breaching the code" - I suspect they're "advising" and not "acting" because there's actually fuck all else they can do about it but we'll probably find out before long.

    5. Re:and why not? by jamesh · · Score: 3, Interesting

      the forms don't have a space for the prices. They don't care about the price.

      Then it would be against the code of practice to put your premium number on such a form.

      Still... if it wasn't _your_ number, then I guess you couldn't get into trouble. You wouldn't receive a cut, but the idea of them trying to sell something to the girl on the end of the "naughty nun spank hotline" might give you a smug sense of satisfaction.

    6. Re:and why not? by yahwotqa · · Score: 1

      Where is my "+5 Underrated" mod when I need it?

    7. Re:and why not? by frootcakeuk · · Score: 1

      Where?? Because I see premium rates all the time and rarely if ever is there an accompanied price structure. Also, what exactly constitutes as a 'Premium Rate' number? I see on the Phone Pay Plus site that 0871, 0872, 0873 are and 090 but that a very small piece of the pie. Are 0844 numbers premium? If so the Maplin is in violation, and their number certainly charges more!

      --
      Remember kids: What's right isn't as important as what's profitable.
    8. Re:and why not? by dominux · · Score: 2, Insightful

      0844 is national rate, not premium. Our office number is one digit away from the Maplin number.
      You can get a bit of revenue from an 0844, we don't from ours, but we get it for free as a SIP trunk and we get pretty much free outbound calling. We don't use phones much anyway really, nasty noisy things.

    9. Re:and why not? by Threni · · Score: 1

      I spent some time on that site and couldn't work that out. Note though that they didn't say he was violating anything, just that he needs to handle complaints and requests for info according to their rules.

    10. Re:and why not? by ciderbrew · · Score: 1

      :0 but that is my number?

    11. Re:and why not? by RDW · · Score: 2

      The summary is misleading. In the BBC article, the regulator is claiming anyone who does this will be liable IF they breach the code ("Premium rate numbers are not designed to be used in this way and we would strongly discourage any listeners from adopting this idea, as they will be liable under our code for any breaches and subsequent fines that result.").

    12. Re: and why not? by skovnymfe · · Score: 1

      Writing other peoples information on forms is probably identity fraud to some degree or another

    13. Re:and why not? by frootcakeuk · · Score: 1

      But it's still a higher rate number. Do you have to advertise the raised price? Or does the fact that it begins with "0844" denote that it's a special rate number? Seems there's not a lot if difference between the two.

      --
      Remember kids: What's right isn't as important as what's profitable.
    14. Re:and why not? by gbjbaanb · · Score: 1

      then just put the pricing information on the form, anywhere you like, maybe on the back or in the margin.

      If the company wants to transcribe that into a computer system and discard the pricing info, that's their choice. And if they want to sell on your number to other marketing companies, that's their lookout, not yours (best to include a disclaimer saying they cannot do this, then its a potential lawsuit too!)

    15. Re:and why not? by namgge · · Score: 2

      Marketing companies making cold calls are not, AIUI, 'Consumers' and are thus not entitled to much in the way of protection.

    16. Re:and why not? by eth1 · · Score: 2

      the forms don't have a space for the prices. They don't care about the price.

      Then it would be against the code of practice to put your premium number on such a form.

      Still... if it wasn't _your_ number, then I guess you couldn't get into trouble. You wouldn't receive a cut, but the idea of them trying to sell something to the girl on the end of the "naughty nun spank hotline" might give you a smug sense of satisfaction.

      So just pair up with a buddy. You put his number on forms, and he puts yours.

    17. Re:and why not? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it's not a higher rate number. It's the exact same rate as calling any other land line that doesn't have the same area code as you.

    18. Re:and why not? by frootcakeuk · · Score: 1

      Link?

      --
      Remember kids: What's right isn't as important as what's profitable.
    19. Re:and why not? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From Ofcom : "0843 and 0844 How much do calls cost? Calls are charged between 1p and 13p per minute for landline customers. Calls from mobile phones are typically charged between 20p and 41p per minute, depending on the provider and the number called. "

      You're chatting shit mate.

    20. Re:and why not? by camperdave · · Score: 1

      So just pair up with a buddy. You put his number on forms, and he puts yours.

      How does that fix anything? Your number is still getting dispersed into the wide, wide world of telemarketers. It's just your buddy doing it, instead of you.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    21. Re:and why not? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can find evidence of this for 0870 numbers but not 0844, and AC below seems to show that 0844 indeed is a higher rate number! 'Special rate' is in fact the term coined by ofcom.

    22. Re:and why not? by nschubach · · Score: 1

      It could be argued that I don't have to tell you that you will be charged for calling a number that isn't mine.

      --
      Every time I start to have faith in humanity, I ruin it by driving to work between 7 and 8 am.
    23. Re:and why not? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Write it in a margin somewhere, on the back of the page, whatever. You're complying with the laws as best you can, it's up to the company to make sure their systems are up to the task of tracking your information. If it's an electronic form and it really is your phone number, then arguably it's the company's fault for forcing the breach by having a restricting form and not letting you supply the other details you're obliged to.

    24. Re:and why not? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      0845 and 44 are local rate, not national. 0870 and 71 are national and premium rate respectively.

    25. Re:and why not? by johanw · · Score: 1

      In most EU countries this information has to be provided when calling the number. When I call a 0900 number I always get a tape "this number costs X cents per minute plus possible airtime on your mobile". When you hang up when the tape plays you're not charged.

    26. Re:and why not? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Premium numbers must always be accompanied by pricing information (consumer protection laws). This guy probably just puts his premium number into forms without giving pricing information.

      Is telemarketer company considered consumer? Calling to the premium number is their business decision.
      Is phone number like this 011 8816 ??? ????? considered premium? Iridium phone rates are "rather high" you need only one number to make telemerketer accountants happy.

    27. Re:and why not? by metamatic · · Score: 1

      Seems to me if you make sure your premium number is on the "Do not call" list, you should be in the clear.

      --
      GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
    28. Re:and why not? by Joebert · · Score: 1

      Lee Beaumont paid £10 plus VAT to set up his personal 0871 line

      Am I missing something, or is "0871 line" something that could be considered common knowledge, especially among the telemarketing industry, to be a premium phone number where the caller will be charged? In the United States there's "1-900" numbers, and it's considered common knowledge that it costs money to call those phone numbers.

      --
      Wanna fight ? Bend over, stick your head up your ass, and fight for air.
    29. Re:and why not? by camperdave · · Score: 1

      No. But you will have to inform callers they are being charged when they call your number.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    30. Re:and why not? by Xest · · Score: 1

      It's common knowledge in the UK but you have to consider who is making these calls:

      1) Indian call centres who don't have a clue

      2) Minimum wage phone monkeys in the UK who couldn't give a fuck what number they're calling

      That is I suspect, why it's highly successful. The people who are calling either don't know or just aren't paid enough to care that it's costing the company.

    31. Re:and why not? by DirtyLiar · · Score: 1

      Sounds like he needs a $3 per minute line where callers can move around a confusing tree of menu options, and listen to his rational for ignoring their complaints. In fact, he could use that money to pay for a PO box or equivalent, where the companies who call to complain can send their complaints through the mail.

      --

      THINK! It's patriotic

    32. Re:and why not? by DirtyLiar · · Score: 1

      The summary is misleading.

      Misleading? A /. headline? I'm shocked, Shocked I say, to find gambling.... er... misleading to be going on here!

      --

      THINK! It's patriotic

    33. Re:and why not? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      he could use that money to pay for a PO box or equivalent, where the companies who call to complain can send their complaints through the mail.

      People provide mailbox services with built in shredders? Lovely!

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    34. Re:and why not? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, you don't have to declare the rate to anyone calling who is not a consumer - the guy wasn't in breach cos he only had businesses calling him. He's not a service provider for consumers, which is who this law applies to. Phonepayplus was warning people against abusing the 0871 numbers in case they decided to make normal people pay to call them using this number (basically scamming them).

      I just got an 0871 number from Flextel, which is actually better cos it's completely free (no upfront payment or running costs) and I don't have to answer the phone - an automated recording (using the virtual switchboard feature) does it for me. ;)

  6. I've done the same for years by Captain+Hook · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've got a personal number which costs more to ring than a standard mobile line, I set it up for the similar reasons, after entering details of an accident when I renewed my insurance I got bombarded by ambulance chasers.

    The only difference is that I don't get a cut of the call costs, I just wanted a way to give a telephone number on websites which comes through to my mobile phone but could easily be rerouted to voicemail off when the frequency of spam calls gets too high.

    Family and friends all get my real number while all companies get the forwarding number so I know that sending everything from the forwarding number to voicemail isn't going to affect people I actually want to talk to.

    --
    These comments are my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the other voices in my head.
    1. Re:I've done the same for years by memzer · · Score: 2

      I have a second prepaid mobile sim card for this purpose. It costs ~$30 for a year (au) and it's worth every cent.

    2. Re:I've done the same for years by Captain+Hook · · Score: 2

      The nice thing about the personal number system is it's free for me, the cost of the service is paid for through the higher call charges, thats why I don't get a cut of the increased charges like the bloke in TFA.

      --
      These comments are my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the other voices in my head.
    3. Re:I've done the same for years by luther349 · · Score: 1

      you can do that with Google voice for free heh.

    4. Re:I've done the same for years by DirtyLiar · · Score: 2

      Only if you live in fucking Yankland, you fucking Yank.

      Next time, before shooting your mouth off, realise that not only is there a world outside of the UNITED STATES OF HOOT LIKE GIBBONS AND INVADE SANDY COUNTRIES, but it's significantly bigger than you are.

      Wow. Got issues much?

      Of course, most of the other posts, including the OP, don't reference any country either, so the same could be said for all of those posters too.

      Besides, what part of that single sentence could be construed as, "shooting your mouth off"?

      Take some deep breaths and go take a lie down. Read a book, get laid, take a jog. You're feelings of paranoia, persecution and inferiority are showing.

      P.S.

      there a world outside of the UNITED STATES OF HOOT LIKE GIBBONS AND INVADE SANDY COUNTRIES

      LOL! You're just mad that's not you anymore!

      --

      THINK! It's patriotic

  7. You take my time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I take your money.

    There should be a number prefix reserved for personal use without the requirement to give pricing information with the number. A "don't call me unless you're willing to pay me" number prefix.

    1. Re:You take my time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which would be used by scammers immediately to rip off unsuspecting people...

    2. Re:You take my time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You could require that the operator plays a message with the pricing information and only charge and connect to the callee if the message is acknowledged by pressing a key. This way the number could be given out like any ordinary number, but the caller would still be informed of the premium price.

    3. Re:You take my time by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      It's a bit of an odd requirement, because all 0871 numbers are premium-rate lines that cost 10p/minute. Simply advertising the prefix is enough. It's even more silly, because the rate that you're supposed to advertise is the rate of calling from a BT landline, the cost of calling from a mobile or a non-BT landline may be very different.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    4. Re:You take my time by mrbester · · Score: 1

      This. The rates for NGN are posted on BT's website, so there is no legal requirement for you to declare it. If you want to know how much it costs go look it up.

      Every talent show *does* declare, however, with a "Calls from mobiles may cost *considerably* more". They can't say how much because they don't know. I'm pretty sure that 0800 (free) numbers still attract a premium charge from shit carriers as well.

      --
      "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
    5. Re:You take my time by nospam007 · · Score: 1

      "Every talent show *does* declare, however, with a "Calls from mobiles may cost *considerably* more". "

      But they _tell_ you to call, while he does the contrary.

  8. I think... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...he should patent the idea!

  9. Clear something up? by Justpin · · Score: 3, Interesting

    In Hong Kong it costs money to receive calls, they call it a connection fee. Which means that people simply never answer calls to unfamiliar numbers. It there such a thing in the US? As far as I know there is no such thing as a connection fee in the UK.

    1. Re:Clear something up? by BlacKSacrificE · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's going to be a great precedent and standard to set, especially when your daughter needs to use her friends phone to call you for help because hers just got trashed/out of credit/stolen.

      "I don't know this number, fuck that!"

      --
      [Sorry, this signature is unavailable in your country/region]
    2. Re:Clear something up? by heypete · · Score: 5, Informative

      For landline phones in the US, the recipient does not pay unless they have a toll-free number (e.g. a 1-800 number). There's no connection fees for receiving a call.

      Mobile phone numbers in the US are no different than landline phones for the calling party: there's no extra fee or anything for calling a mobile number. Calling a mobile costs precisely the same amount as calling any other phone number in that area code. The person with the mobile phone will be charged on a per-minute basis (unless they have an unlimited calling plan or it's during the "free nights and weekends" time that many plans offer) regardless of whether they are making or receiving a call.

      This is different from, say, Europe, where mobile phones are assigned numbers in special mobile-only prefixes. The person calling a mobile phone pays a slight premium, while the person receiving a call on their mobile pays nothing.

    3. Re:Clear something up? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That's going to be a great precedent and standard to set, especially when your daughter needs to use her friends phone to call you for help because hers just got trashed/out of credit/stolen.

      "I don't know this number, fuck that!"

      I very seldom answers unknown or caller ID blocked calls, but I have a voice mail that immediately texts me if someone leaves a message. In my experience sales or marketing survey calls never leave a message, but people who need to get in touch with me do, so I find this a very effective filter.

    4. Re:Clear something up? by MrDoh! · · Score: 2

      In the US, you pay for calls made and received (all part of your call allowance). In the UK, anyone calling you pays, after all, why should you pay for them to get in touch with you, you didn't ask them too. A far better way to handle it. Alas, in the US, you get charged both sides of the equation because... they can. *some networks mask this, offer free calls at certain times, or on same network, but you never know if the person calling you is going to cost you or not, after all, how do you know what network they're on?

      --
      Waiting for an amusing sig.
    5. Re:Clear something up? by ragefan · · Score: 1

      Similarly, I will generally answer unknown numbers that are of local origin. I cannot think of a time I received a telemarketing call from within my area code, as less local prefixes.

    6. Re:Clear something up? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You pay for calls received? I assume you mean cell because landline that'd be preposterous. And in the case of your cell? Find a better plan, I haven't paid for incoming minutes in 10-15 years. You're getting hosed

    7. Re:Clear something up? by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      In the US, you pay for calls made and received (all part of your call allowance). In the UK, anyone calling you pays, after all, why should you pay for them to get in touch with you, you didn't ask them too. A far better way to handle it. Alas, in the US, you get charged both sides of the equation because... they can.

      While that is true the reality is most consumers don't have to worry about charges because of all the "free minutes" exceptions. With free nights, in network and out of network calling not charged minutes, rollover minutes, etc. (depending on the carrier) most caller's calling patterns mean they probably don't use much of their base minutes and probably should check their usage and lower their plan tier.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    8. Re:Clear something up? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Wait what!?

      Your mobile numbers have geographic area based prefixes?

      That's why you're charge to receive a mobile call, as there's no way for the dialler to tell the difference and so it's unfair on them to pay the extra?

      Assuming that's all correct, what part of "mobile" did you guys not understand?

      Captch: Disdain

    9. Re:Clear something up? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think this is similar to the old 1-900 area code or the local 976 prefix.

    10. Re:Clear something up? by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      Wait what!?
      Your mobile numbers have geographic area based prefixes?

      They didn't used to. Formerly they would create new prefixes and hand those to cellular companies. But now we have number portability. You can take your land number to a cellphone, or maybe even go the other direction. I don't care enough to know because I don't consider the phone to be the best way to reach me.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    11. Re:Clear something up? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On both my home line and mobile, I've unlimited calling. The mobile is unlimited text messages and data also. The plans to do so aren't even all that much pricier than the metered lines.

      International rates are metered, of course, but that's why the Invisible Pink Unicorn invented Skype and Google Voice.

      This is for US lines, of course.

    12. Re:Clear something up? by mcgrew · · Score: 1

      In the US, you pay for calls made and received (all part of your call allowance).

      That depends on your carrier and plan. Some charge for all minutes used, some give you a number of "free" minutes. The one I'm on is a flat $40 per month, no limits on anything except I'm not allowed to tether..

    13. Re:Clear something up? by Kjella · · Score: 1

      This is different from, say, Europe, where mobile phones are assigned numbers in special mobile-only prefixes. The person calling a mobile phone pays a slight premium, while the person receiving a call on their mobile pays nothing.

      Yes, but at least here in Norway it's only cheaper to call a landline from another landline as the cell phone operators only offer you one price per minute for both. This means there's no incentive to have a landline, you can't control how others can be reached (so people prefer the cell phone for convenience) and you pay nothing to recieve either way. Result: 5.7 million cell phones (113% coverage), a total of 1.5 million fixed lines of which 0.5 are broadband phones and 1.0 genuine landlines (PSTN/ISDN). And the fixed lines have been dropping with >100k/year for the last 5 years, even if you have a landline the chances of you calling another landline is dropping year for year. Personally I have fiber + cell phone and that's redundancy enough for me. If I can't reach anyone on fiber (where I don't have a broadband phone but email and skype) or on my cell phone then the world must be truly fucked as those are two very separate sets of infrastructure.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    14. Re:Clear something up? by Hypotensive · · Score: 1

      Ah nice, so the telecoms provider gets to charge twice for the same call. Just what you'd expect from the home of capitalism.

    15. Re: Clear something up? by O('_')O_Bush · · Score: 1

      Good thing there is SMS.

      --
      while(1) attack(People.Sandy);
    16. Re:Clear something up? by Politburo · · Score: 1

      With the exception of toll free numbers (originally just 1-800.. now 888, 877, 866, 855, and 844 in a few months), everything has geographic area based codes (prefixes are used within area codes).

      But this is not the reason why you are charged to receive a mobile call. You are charged to receive a mobile call (unless you have unlimited or in a free period) because you are using the mobile network. If you don't want to pay for that, do not answer the call.

    17. Re:Clear something up? by Politburo · · Score: 1

      " In the UK, anyone calling you pays, after all, why should you pay for them to get in touch with you, you didn't ask them too. "

      Don't answer the phone then.

      I've never understood the concept of making other people pay because I want the convenience of a portable communication device.

    18. Re:Clear something up? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes - yes it is. I first thought the salesperson was joking when I went to get a mobile contract after moving to Canada from Europe. _I_ need to pay when someone is calling me? Thats just bullshit. But not a great deal one can do about it, except get one of the unlimited minutes contracts.

    19. Re:Clear something up? by nine-times · · Score: 4, Informative

      Your mobile numbers have geographic area based prefixes?...what part of "mobile" did you guys not understand?

      People in the US generally aren't getting charged for calling different area codes. I suppose some people still get "long distance charges", but most people are in a plan where they only get charged for calling a different country, and even then sometimes they can call Canada for free or something. To a large degree, the "area codes" are being used now just to allow for more numbers.

      In fact, lots of younger people don't have landlines, and only have mobile phones, and they try to keep their number throughout their lives. If you live in a major city, a lot of people you meet will have phone numbers from all over the country. The "area code" is no longer a good indicator of where you actually live.

    20. Re:Clear something up? by nospam007 · · Score: 1

      "Yes, but at least here in Norway it's only cheaper to call a landline from another landline as the cell phone operators only offer you one price per minute for both."

      I'm from Europe too I'm paying 49€ for unlimited data and calling to all operators and landlines. Ditto for SMS and MMS.
      And the latest iPhone is included, since the family decided on a common phone OS against my wishes, but what can you do. (girls:-) At least we all got the TomTom application for the price of one that way. Since roaming is still expensive in Europe you need an offline navigator.

      I never found a data limit and I'm online 8 hours a day at work since the company network has blocks and stuff that nobody wants to bother with. I usually get between 15 and 20 Gigs a month.

      I only keep it for the data though, since nobody phones anymore, they send texts, emails or whatsapp.
      The calls from Granny I could easily pay by the minute for cheaper.

      Perhaps I could use a card from an unlimited data-only stick in my phone for 19.95, anybody tried that?

    21. Re:Clear something up? by Miamicanes · · Score: 3, Informative

      The FCC set aside areacodes for mobile phones, but somewhere along the line, they were discontinued as "prejudicial".

      There was also a block of areacodes set aside for non-geographic personal numbers, but there was zero interest in them, because they gave you and your callers the worst of all worlds... you were charged for incoming calls as though it were a toll free number, and people calling you were charged as through they were making the most expensive domestic long-distance calls possible.

      I remember that sometime around the mid-90s, there was a bug in the ESS switching software used by BellSouth (probably others too) that allowed you to create a chain of adhoc-forwarded numbers that began with a toll-free 800 number, and ended with a local premium-rate 976 number, because there was no control in place to stop you from doing it, and the 976 billing logic charged the originator of the call rather than the forwarder.As far as I know, the practice was never actually approved, and people who did it ended up getting the money taken away from them.

      In the US, a leading '1' has ALWAYS signified your understanding that the number dialed isn't a local call, and might not necessarily be free. Back when areacodes always had 0 or 1 as the second digit, never as the first digit, and exchange codes (the 3 digits after the areacode) could not have 0 or 1 as the second digit, it worked something like this: Assume two Miami phones having numbers 305-222-2222 and 305-333-3333 and a Key West phone having number 305-444-4444:

      Back when 7-digit dialing was allowed, 305-222-2222 could cal 305-333-3333 by simply dialing 333-3333. No 0 or 1 within the first 3 digits, so 305 areacode was implied, as well as its status as a free call. However, if 305-222-2222 called the Key west number, he had two choices: 1-444-4444 or 1-305-444-4444 (leading 1= non-free, no 0/1 second digit implies 305 areacode)

      When 10-digit dialing was implemented to allow 786 areacode to be overlaid on Miami, 11-digit permissive dialing was enabled to avoid breaking compatibility with software and dialers that automatically added a leading '1' to any 10-digit phone number (yes, there were quite a few). So, 305-222-2222 could dial 305-333-3333 by dialing EITHER 305-333-3333 OR 1-305-333-33333. However, for calls to Key West, the 1 was absolutely required, so 305-222-2222 dialing 305-444-4444 would get a recording that the number was not local & required a 0 or 1 before dialing.

      Cell phones threw a new monkey wrench into the equation, because they (usually) had much larger "local" calling zones. For example, if you were a Sprint customer, everything from Orlando south to Key West was classified as a "local" call, including numbers outside your area code. So 305-222-2222 could dial 407-934-7639 without the leading 1, since to a Sprint customer who was present within the switching area of the number being called, it WAS a local call. It technically incurred per-minute airtime charges, but didn't incur additional long-distance.

      Where things got ugly was when you called people who were visiting with a mobile phone from another area. I don't think many people really understand what the billing logic was, because it wasn't a common scenario until the point when most mobile phones started to have the entire US as a local calling zone anyway. As I understand it, behind the scenes, if a Sprint customer in Miami called a Sprint customer from California who was in Orlando, Sprint's network would recognize that the caller and target were both handled by the Orlando switching center and complete it as a "local" call (even if the caller didn't have free long-distance anyway), but a landline phone (or non-Sprint mobile phone) in Miami would have gotten charged for the call to California, because their carrier would have terminated the call to Sprint's switching center in California, and Sprint itself would have transparently connected it to their Orlando switching center behind the scenes.

    22. Re:Clear something up? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Think of it as sending a letter. The person who wants to send the communication has to pay for it.

      FYI, I'm in Ireland and I don't see why I should pay for receiving letters just because I have a house address. Now, change the mechanism of communication to phone calls or even spam email. If you are paying an ISP for a certain amount of data transfer per month, should you pay for the spam which consumes that data transfer quantity?

    23. Re:Clear something up? by rjstanford · · Score: 3, Informative
      --
      You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
    24. Re:Clear something up? by Miamicanes · · Score: 1

      > A far better way to handle it.

      15 years, I might have agreed with you. The upside of the American billing model is that it put direct competitive pressure on phone companies to make incoming calls (or at least their first minute) free, and to create calling plans with thousands of minutes, free nights/weekends, or outright unlimited airtime. The net result is that most Americans with normal mobile phone service never pay for airtime above and beyond what's included, but in Britain people are still forced to count minutes and care. The flip side is that in Britain, if you make no outgoing calls of your own, you can get a mobile phone for something like US$15-20/month, while in the US, it was nearly impossible to get meaningful service for less than $40/month after taxes until very, very, VERY recently, regardless of how little you used it. For people who never made calls, the British model was nicer. For Americans who'd rather pay one price to enjoy an all-you-can-eat(*) buffet, the American model ended up nicer.

      (*)of course, "unlimited" never truly means "unlimited", and if you exceed some unwritten threshold "too often", most carriers will either fire you as a customer or force you into a more expensive plan. The point is, though, Americans almost universally despise having meters running in the background... partly, because the only time we ever encounter them, they're being used as an excuse to jack up the prices even more. In the US, the break-even point between ANY a-la-carte service and all-you-can-eat is only slightly above "zero actual use" for most real-world situations.

    25. Re:Clear something up? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's preposterous with cellphones too.

    26. Re:Clear something up? by Anaerin · · Score: 1

      You're not. If you want to use said portable device, you can do. And (In the UK at least) portable communication devices are in their own calling prefix, so you as a user know you're going to call a cellular customer ('cause you have to put in a cellular prefix), and that you're going to be charged more for it. If you don't want to pay extra to call me when I'm not at home or at work, you don't call my cell.

    27. Re:Clear something up? by Nemyst · · Score: 1

      Canada still has a lot of "long distance charges" and they're almost invariably stupid, like say calling a number in the same area code (but in a different subset of the area code) costs money but calling a number in a different, farther one doesn't.

    28. Re:Clear something up? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In fact, lots of younger people don't have landlines, and only have mobile phones, and they try to keep their number throughout their lives.

      This has been pissing me off for years now.
      You live across the street now. You don't live in Arkansas anymore, so why should I pay extra to call you?
      Get off my lawn!

    29. Re:Clear something up? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All I pay to make (local) phone calls is my monthly charge. It doesn't depend on number or length of calls.
      If I call your cell phone, you pay your provider for your minutes used.
      Who's charging twice? Is there any reason to believe your (cell) provider and my (landline) provider are the same?

    30. Re:Clear something up? by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Except there's no premium rate to call the cell phones. So that extra charge is just applied to the recipient of the call instead of to the dialer. It all roughly evens out.

    31. Re:Clear something up? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a bizare system, Im from Australia and it costs me nothing to recieve calls on my mobile. If I dont make any/hardly any calls I can get a plan for $20-$30 per year. Also calls to a mobiles cost the same to a mobile in the next room or on the other side of the country.

      Plus you can get the American style night/weekend/same carrier etc plans if your into that kind of thing.

    32. Re:Clear something up? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      The optional "1" at the start of a US phone number is the country code. It's generally written as "+1" outside the US, but we just slap a "1" onto the front of the number. It is no longer required when dialing from within the US for any reason. It used to be the "long distance" digit, and used to be required if you were calling outside your local area (as defined by your regional Baby Bell). Largely, the leading 1 is ignored.

      The area code is a geographically allocated set of ten million phone numbers. It is 3 digits. It is only required if you are dialing a number outside of your current area code. The area code cannot begin with "1". Special "toll free" or "WATS" (Wide Area Telephone System) lines use area code 800. Due to huge growth in the use of WATS line usage in the 1990's, 888, 877, and 866 are also used. Special "toll collect" lines use area code 900.

      The exchange is the first 3 digits of the 7-digit phone number. It is generally allocated to a specific phone company exchange office that serves a particular area. Each one allots 10,000 phone numbers. It has been a required part of dialing since the early 1960's, when automated switching became the norm. Before that, you could dial with either a 4- or 5-digit number (5-digit dialing included the last digit of the exchange, and was only used in some large metropolitan areas). The extension cannot begin with "1". In olden times (the 1950's and 1960's) these were often represented as two letters and a number, and pronounced as a word and a number. My grandparents talked about having a number in the "Taylor-1" exchange. That's TA1, or 821. I suspect this was a mnemonic used to get people used to 7-digit dialing requirements. Internal ILEC and CLEC services use "010", as used in the old "10-10-whatever" toll services they used to advertise. Those are actually "1 ({your area}) 010-{internal *LEC extension}". The other reserved exchange is "555" which is never assigned for anything external to the carrier, with the exception of Directory Services, which is always 555-1212.

      The extension is the last 4 digits of the 7-digit phone number. This is, was, and always will be a required part of dialing a number. The only way to escape dialing entirely is to have the operator connect you, which is still available... for a price.

      Accepted dialing formats:
      country-area-exchange-extension (11 digits, only required outside of the US, but allowed within it)
      area-exchange-extension (10 digits, required when crossing an area boundary, otherwise allowed)
      country-exchange-extension (8 digits, the old "long distance across town" dialing format, allowed, but not used anymore)
      exchange-extension (7 digits, allowed ONLY when calling another number within the same area, currently the minimum number of digits allowed for a valid point-to-point call)

      Special-case numbers (not an exhaustive list):
      "911" (emergency services in most areas)
      "811" (some areas use this for construction site utility marking)
      "*55" (roadside assistance in some areas)
      "0" (operator assistance)

    33. Re:Clear something up? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps I could use a card from an unlimited data-only stick in my phone for 19.95, anybody tried that?

      It will probably work, but I suspect it depends on the network providing the SIM card. I'm on Three in the the UK and I use my data SIM in my phone without a problem, I have a dual-SIM phone so I also use a pay-as-you-go SIM for my infrequent calls and texts.

    34. Re:Clear something up? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Other people aren't paying because I want the convenience of a portable communication device, they are paying for the convenience of contacting me wherever I may be, they could call my home phone, but I may not be there. And as has already been pointed out, mobile numbers in the UK have their own prefix, the caller knows when they are calling a mobile.

    35. Re:Clear something up? by swalve · · Score: 1

      In the US, the system was set up so that the phone number could tell the switching equipment where it needed to be routed, just like IP routing. 312 xxx yyyy? Send it to Chicago. The next three digits told the equipment which telephone exchange to send it to. The last 4 digits told the exchange which line to send it to. When mobile phones first came out, there weren't nearly as many area codes, and cellular + telephone companies were regional. If you bought a cell phone in Chicago, you would have to get a 312 number, because the exchange that handled cellular traffic was in the 312 area. Where else would it be? You call the number, a computer inside the exchange terminates the call from the landline network, and from there it figures out how to route the call along the cellular network.

      Also, adding area codes meant that every long distance phone switch would have to be programmed to recognize the new prefix. Why should Bell Atlantic have to do anything just because CellularOne opened up a service in Chicago? Also, many people simply objected to the idea of cellular-only area codes because they felt it would create confusion and mistrust in the minds of callers. They weren't going to call a service person with an 847 area code, because they would think they were going to have to pay long distance rates for the call. And why would I, in Chicago, want to call a plumber who didn't even live in the same area code as me? (This has, of course, changed in the last 5-10 years, but cellular service has been around a lot longer than that and the decisions were made before people were comfortable with the idea. And before people had telephone service that didn't differentiate between local and long distance.)

      The compromise made a sort of logical sense also. The system always was basically set up like this: the caller pays the freight to get the call to the local exchange, and the receiver pays to get the call from the exchange to their house. Instead of paying per minute or per call, however, receiving calls was just part of the local access charge. So when cellular came along, it seemed natural to make the owner of the cell phone pay the extra costs in getting that call to the end user. In fact, that's how it was originally billed. You weren't getting charged for the phone call, you were getting charged for air time. IE, use of the wireless network. If you didn't want to get charged, you didn't answer the phone.

    36. Re:Clear something up? by swalve · · Score: 1

      If I remember the history correctly, the shift happened a little more gradually. Originally, cell plans were just like landline plans. If you wanted to call long distance, you would have to subscribe to one of the long distance carriers. (AT&T, Sprint, MCI?) Then, as the long distance carriers created their own cellular companies, long distance began to get included as a loss-leader. Also, it made the billing easier. Why charge 10 cents or 30 cents a minute, depending, when you could just charge 20 cents for all the minutes? There was also roaming charges. You used to have to pay extra to use another cellular network. Then there were roaming-included plans, where it cost a little more a month to have free roaming. Then they consolidated that and just made everyone pay for free roaming. Basically. Then there was free mobile to mobile calling.

      It all kind of happened at the same time, such that about 5 years ago, it just became easier/cheaper to NOT change your number.

    37. Re:Clear something up? by nine-times · · Score: 1

      Yes, the transition happened fairly slowly. Cell phones had roaming charges, so people would generally avoid using their cell outside of their home area, which is part of the reason why it made sense to give them a geographic area code. They also had long-distance charges. people moved to a new area, they got a new cell phone number to avoid roaming/long-distance charges. SMS messages were also free then. Not many people had cell phones, relative to now. Landlines also had long-distance charges which could be pretty expensive.

      Then, competing with each other, cell phone carriers extended the roaming areas, and then dropped the roaming and long-distance charges nationwide. Around that time (I think a few years after), you became able to transfer your cell phone number between carriers. These two things together meant that it was increasingly practical to keep the same phone number year after year, even when you moved or changed your cell phone plan. The carriers also started allowing you to transfer your landline number to a cell phone, which increased the frequency with which people would drop their landline entirely-- which was a more attractive option because long-distance phone calls were free on cell phones, so cell phones were becoming cheaper than landlines.

      In competition with cell phones and VoIP (which also didn't charge for long-distance), most carriers started dropping or eliminating long-distance charges.

      In my memory, it all started much earlier than 5 years ago. Remember, "5 years ago" is late 2008. A lot of these transitions started in the early 2000s.

    38. Re:Clear something up? by Miamicanes · · Score: 1

      Almost, but not quite 100% right.

      In many parts of the US (I think California is the sole meaningful big-state exception... maybe Wisconsin, too), 10-digit dialing is mandatory in any city where there are overlaid areacodes. Atlanta was the first city with mandatory 10-digit dialing, but Miami, Orlando, Dallas, Houston, and plenty of other cities quickly followed once it became obvious that endlessly subdividing metro areas into smaller and smaller areacodes was creating more chaos and hassle than just making areacodes mandatory.

      I believe at one point, there was a local proposal in Miami circa 1995 to allow 8-digit dialing by using the third digit of the areacode as the eighth digit, but BellSouth *VEHEMENTLY* opposed it, and in the end, it would have been mostly moot within a decade anyway thanks to nationwide number portability(*)

      (*) Interestingly, Verizon, and apparently AT&T, unlike Sprint, WILL NOT allow you to port numbers nationwide. Apparently, they'll force you to change your number to one in your new areacode if your billing address changes to a different part of the country. One of my coworkers was PISSED because his parents moved to Florida from New Jersey, and Verizon made them change their numbers. As far as I know, Sprint won't allow you to sign up for new service with an alien areacode ported to the new service, but they don't care if you move across the country with an already-active account. I believe T-mobile is completely areacode-agnostic, and doesn't really care what your number is, as long as it's serviced by a local exchange of theirs *somewhere* in the country. Apparently, people have taken advantage of this using T-Mobile prepaid to port Google Voice numbers to U-verse (U-verse won't allow you to port from Google Voice, but they will allow you to port from T-Mobile, so people port their Google Voice numbers to T-Mobile prepaid, then port them from T-Mobile prepaid to U-verse as soon as the change goes through).

    39. Re:Clear something up? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most UK monthly packages come with huge numbers of minutes. There is something to cover any usage pattern, no one is counting minutes over here.

      At the low end, we have pay-as-you-go, which can start off at £10 and credit can last 90 days.

      Either way, the UK model seems better. I certainly don't feel ripped off by O2 any more...

    40. Re:Clear something up? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Based on my experience with Verizon will allow you to port numbers between states. I moved about 1400 miles and VZW didn't care.

    41. Re:Clear something up? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Note, 7/8 digit dialing is not always allowed, there are many areas that, due to overlapped exchanges and such, specifically require 10 digit dialing as a minimum.
      I used to live in an area that required it, and I was freakishly happy when they started doing so, cause we had people that didn't understand that your cell phone was a different area code then your home phone. One annoying person called every week and didn't understand why she couldn't get the right number.

      http://www.nanpa.com/enas/npasRequiring10DigitReport.do

    42. Re:Clear something up? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      when your daughter needs to use her friends phone to call you for help because hers just got trashed/out of credit/stolen.

      "I don't know this number, fuck that!"

      The daughter has just received a valuable lesson to not lose her phone/ run out of credit (without having money available to top up) / or otherwise lose phone service. It's called personal responsibility, and you're meant to develop it as you approach adulthood and get things like going out without your parents, having a mobile phone, etc.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
    43. Re:Clear something up? by BlacKSacrificE · · Score: 1

      Well, I'm speaking from personal experience there. Her phone (in a school bag) got soaked when she got stuck out in a rain storm, and she had to use her friends phone to call me to come get her.

      For a lot of reasons, I hope you never breed.

      --
      [Sorry, this signature is unavailable in your country/region]
  10. Where I'm from..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Where I'm from you need to have an automated message before the actual call, that tells how much the call is going to cost per minute.

    I doubt this scheme would work in this northern country.

    1. Re:Where I'm from..... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Good requirement. When I'm paying a premium rate billed per minute, I really want to have to spend 20-30 seconds listening to a recorded message telling me how much I'm paying...

      In the UK, the 0845, 0870 and 0871 prefixes all have fixed costs. The exact cost of calling them depends on your phone company - it does me absolutely no good to be told how much it would cost me to call the number from a BT landline, because I have never had a BT landline.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    2. Re:Where I'm from..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The payment kicks in AFTER the message.... and you can optionally make the waiting time free of charge if you want. You have to inform this to the caller too.

    3. Re:Where I'm from..... by Tom · · Score: 1

      Good requirement. When I'm paying a premium rate billed per minute, I really want to have to spend 20-30 seconds listening to a recorded message telling me how much I'm paying...

      Might differ per country, but in my country, that message must be free by law, so you are only starting to pay after it has played.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    4. Re:Where I'm from..... by Jmc23 · · Score: 1

      Tom, listen, I know where you live because I've been secretly stalking you. Other's probably don't (who knows! You're/a great guy to stalk) so it might be more informative to tell us which country you are talking about!

      --
      Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
  11. The Irony by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Oh my god, the Irony that BBC is asking for the reader's phone number below the TFA...

  12. Guys a Legend by danknight48 · · Score: 1

    But, now hes told everyone how to make money with cold calls. Every marketing company will simply block 0871 numbers.

    Great job for making some cash, but did you have to tell the whole fkin marking world have to prevent it?

    1. Re:Guys a Legend by Captain+Hook · · Score: 1

      But, now hes told everyone how to make money with cold calls. Every marketing company will simply block 0871 numbers.

      Thats a good thing isn't it?

      Surely the point it to stop the marketing calls, the making money off them is just a side benefit.

      --
      These comments are my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the other voices in my head.
    2. Re:Guys a Legend by frootcakeuk · · Score: 1

      They didn't tell you who he registered with either. I know who it is (2 mins google), but they only told you who the regulatory body are. I'm very tempted myself as we are TPS registered and still get 30+ calls a week. We're into the very bad habit of just ignoring the phone unless we're expecting a call. I have missed countless calls because of this and registering a premium number would be a double win.

      --
      Remember kids: What's right isn't as important as what's profitable.
    3. Re:Guys a Legend by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is a brilliant idea to deal with cold calls.
      The way I deal with calls is with the following answering machine message"
      "Thank you for calling the impotent hot line. One of our operators will be with you shortly to take your Viagra order. Please have your credit card handy."
      Almost all cold calls stopped after a few months.

    4. Re:Guys a Legend by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Every marketing company will simply block 0871 numbers.

      ... and so will be unable to call him on his 0871 number.

      Which is the desired effect - no cold calls.

      And the problem is ... ?

      Great job for making some cash, but did you have to tell the whole fkin marking world have to prevent it?

      Call centres in India are very unlikely to pick up on this, so will continue the phone spamming. Ker-ching!

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  13. I don't really get this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    I joined the Telephone Preference Service. I get almost no cold calls; those who do call me are generally breaking the law and don't tend to call back when they are told that. I do get a few calls from companies dodging TPS by calling from outside the UK, mind you, but maybe once every week.

    I like this guy's style but it's scarcely necessary.

    1. Re:I don't really get this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That only works so far as if you're giving a landline number.. if you only have a mobile, TPS does not apply.

    2. Re:I don't really get this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right. But then it's a landline we're talking about here. You can't have an 0871 number on a mobile, can you?

      I have a mobile, though, and I never get calls on that.

      Are you saying (you may be -- I am interested) that TPS applies to my preferences at these companies because I've listed a landline number, so they aren't calling my mobile either if they have it, but such protection wouldn't apply if I couldn't list a landline number with TPS?

    3. Re:I don't really get this by camperdave · · Score: 1

      "I get almost no cold calls"
      " I do get a few calls from companies"

      You can never truly opt out of telemarketing calls. As you point out, they will call even if it is against the law, and they will find ways around the law. So, given that they are going to call you anyways, why not have them call a number that makes them pay you money?

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    4. Re:I don't really get this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also:

      http://www.tpsonline.org.uk/tps/index.html

      TPS does register mobiles and will block calls to them (it doesn't block marketing texts)

    5. Re:I don't really get this by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      We Americans get to enjoy a fluke of the telephone system. Canada and the US are the same country, as far as the telephone system is concerned.

      So when we sign up for the US equivalent of Telephone Preference Service, we still receive cold calls. The calls are routed through Canada, so they are outside US jurisdiction and "you are breaking the law" really doesn't work.

      Canadians get the joy of cold calls routed through the US to bypass their equivalent of Telephone Preference Service.

    6. Re:I don't really get this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because setting up that number is a passive-aggressive waste of personal energy when the annoyance is so small, and I don't feel like filling my life with unnecessary bullshit?

      "They" are not a very big they at all. I get maybe one call a week - and I work from home so I am here all the time; it's not like I am simply missing them by being of the house. When I say one call a week, I mean pretty much exactly that. TPS is good and the punishments are reasonably significant. At the moment, that one call every week or two is from a firm or two using international call centres doing some survey. This might or might not be a way around TPS, but it clearly isn't particularly viable or more crooks would be at it.

      If it is an international call I say "sorry I am too busy" and put the phone down. (There's no good feelings to gain from being too rude to people doing a shitty job for shitty money).

      If it was a UK call, I tell them I am on TPS and they have broken the law by phoning me. I get the company name; sometimes if they are foolish enough not to block the number I get that too. I might if am annoyed put that in the ICO complaint form. The last time I had a call like this was about six weeks ago.

      TPS is good: anyone who calls you without permission is already breaking the law.

      Besides all of that, as I get so few telemarketing calls, the 0871 thing would be costing me money. I'd have to opt _out_ of TPS to get enough calls to make it work. You can do this if you like; to me it sounds like a waste of life.

    7. Re:I don't really get this by gsslay · · Score: 1

      You are clearly not on the right lists. Believe me, once your number gets on one of those lists, and you're getting half a dozen calls a day from random companies, all intent on taking money off you and wasting your time, you'll think differently over what is "necessary".

      You may even find your opinions on capital punishment suddenly become a whole lot more medieval.

    8. Re:I don't really get this by MouseAT · · Score: 1

      That only works when the caller is human. I'm also TPS registered. I usually get 2-3 calls per week to the land line, and they're all automated messages. There's no-one to talk to, no one to tell they're breaking the law, and no company name provided. I'm getting tired of deleting all the voice mail messages.

    9. Re:I don't really get this by MouseAT · · Score: 1

      The new approach is to use automated diallers that play recorded messages and don't mention the company name. They just ignore the TPS, and it's hard to report them if you don't know who they are.

    10. Re:I don't really get this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I admit I've had a couple of those in the last eighteen months or so. Doing something for the 30 seconds it takes to get to the bit where you speak to an operator, opting to speak to the operator, and if it sounds like they are ordinary english conmen/women telling them to fuck off is pretty satisfying. I don't do this if it's some poor bastard in Bangalore, though.

    11. Re:I don't really get this by camperdave · · Score: 1

      But you're still getting calls. It would drive me bonkers if I got as many calls as you do. I get on average about one a month, and that's still excessive. Thresholds of tolerance, I guess.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    12. Re:I don't really get this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I get a lot more phone calls that aren't illegal or unsolicited that annoy me more.

      You can either let this shit get to you or not. I suggest not.

      Either way, would you spend ten quid (entry to a couple of good gigs at my local music venue) and then the time it takes to string these people along, to avenge one a month? Seems to me to be a pyrrhic victory if you would.

    13. Re:I don't really get this by camperdave · · Score: 1

      It's not 10 quid per month. That's just a one time setup fee.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    14. Re:I don't really get this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure. But it'll take a while to repay on a handful of calls. Still seems like pointless passive-aggression to me.

    15. Re:I don't really get this by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      I joined the Telephone Preference Service.

      So did I. However, it looks as if the previous inhabitants of this house weren't TPS'd, and because of a complete and utter fuck-up by my phone and internet (ex-)supplier while we were moving, we were unable to move our old phone number to the new house. So, we're stuck with the previous inhabitant's number.

      I get almost no cold calls;

      10 a day is not uncommon.

      those who do call me are generally breaking the law and don't tend to call back when they are told that. I do get a few calls from companies dodging TPS by calling from outside the UK, mind you, but maybe once every week.

      10 a day is not uncommon. International calls are the norm.

      I like this guy's style but it's scarcely necessary.

      I like his style and am seriously considering implementing it. My main reason for reading this thread on Slashdot was to see if anyone had any elucidation of what the (purported) illegalities were. Still seeking.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  14. I think the rigged call in shows kill most of the by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    premium numbers.

  15. Re:So Full Of NobodyCares! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    £1 is only 1/100th my normal rate

    if you try i'm sure you can work that into EVERY post and not just 2 of 2

  16. Best way by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I got called about 4 times a week and after repeated requests to them to stop calling me, I made up a false name and had their representatives go to a derelict house for 'me' to sign the documents. They called me back pretty quickly and I explained that this is what would happen every time they called my number from now on. Miraculously I have not had a call since.

  17. For the other side of the phone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This American Life had an interesting story written J. Goldstein about his time as a telemarketer.

    http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/205/plan-b?act=4

  18. Definition of Abuse by Capt.Albatross · · Score: 1

    The premium rate 09 lines you are talking about are separately regulated and abuse is prosecuted.

    The only abuse here is the cold-calling (I am, of course, writing from an ethics point of view, which should not be confused with the legal or telco views.)

    1. Re:Definition of Abuse by BrokenHalo · · Score: 1

      Except, as it says in TFA, the guy now "welcomes cold calls". I can see the point of slugging cold-callers with what is effectively a "fine", but once you go to the extreme of extending unsolicited calls just for the revenue, then that is just profiteering.

      Personally, I just say "Please hold the line..." and put the phone under a cushion. I don't care if the underpaid caller loses on his quota: that is not my problem.

    2. Re:Definition of Abuse by Dishevel · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Except, as it says in TFA, the guy now "welcomes cold calls". I can see the point of slugging cold-callers with what is effectively a "fine", but once you go to the extreme of extending unsolicited calls just for the revenue, then that is just profiteering.

      I am cool with that. If they do not want to pay him for his time they can choose to not call him.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    3. Re:Definition of Abuse by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

      It does make the moral standing of the actor more questionable; but I'm not sure that that's a problem; Cold-callers are one of the few life forms even lower than spammers, so somebody who preys on cold callers(however much I might not admire his moral uprightness) still seems like a net win.

    4. Re:Definition of Abuse by Capt.Albatross · · Score: 1

      Except, as it says in TFA, the guy now "welcomes cold calls". I can see the point of slugging cold-callers with what is effectively a "fine", but once you go to the extreme of extending unsolicited calls just for the revenue, then that is just profiteering.

      Personally, I just say "Please hold the line..." and put the phone under a cushion. I don't care if the underpaid caller loses on his quota: that is not my problem.

      Your response targets someone who is arguably being exploited by the scheme, rather than those who instigated and profit from it.

      I agree with Dishevel, and I do also use the 'please hold' response - maybe it will get me flagged as 'waste of time'. If there was an easy way to be more than a trivial inconvenience to them, I would do it.

  19. Cold calls by Meeni · · Score: 2

    If human, ask them how they got the number and if I had previous business relationship in the past. Most collections are illegal, they will hangup immediately never to call again, because these words mean trouble to them.

    Robots: Reported to the FCC, everytime.

  20. It could be worse for the telemarketers. by RevWaldo · · Score: 2

    They could wind up calling Lenny. http://itslenny.com/

    .

  21. Sticking it to the little guy. by Requiem18th · · Score: 2

    Personally I'm bothered that it bothers them. Obvisouly there is no rule yet that you can't use premium call services to get paid by telemarketeers because they are just people. The regulator seems to think that it's wrong that telemarketeers are compensating him for wasting his time. Why? They are a bunch of corporate sellouts thats why.

    --
    But... the future refused to change.
  22. Cold/robo callers made me a jerk on the phone by GodfatherofSoul · · Score: 1

    I used to be pretty patient, but after getting hammered with them for the first 3-4 years after I bought my house, I developed terribly rude phone etiquette. Just this morning, I got probably the 20th call from a "doctor's group" trying to sell me chiropractic services after I've told them each time "no, please remove me from your calling list". I think that's the biggest annoyance. People I've never had business with, told 10 times "I'm not interested" will continue to call every month or two.

    One trick that has worked is to get them into their sales pitch, put the phone down (still connected) and simply go on about your day.

    --
    I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
    1. Re:Cold/robo callers made me a jerk on the phone by Capt.DrumkenBum · · Score: 1

      One trick that has worked is to get them into their sales pitch, put the phone down (still connected) and simply go on about your day.

      I have done this for years. I have two others I use as well.
      "Can you hold on a sec?" then put the phone down, and walk away.
      Abuse. Lots of it. Insult their intelligence, parentage, choice of job... Anything you can think of. Be as unpleasant as possible. Then tell them flat out that you will NEVER buy anything that someone tries to sell over the phone. Then hangup.
      My theory is that they have a computer form in front of them when they call, and somewhere on that form is a little checkbox for "difficult" people. I hope that means they won't call me. It does seem to have reduced the number of calls I get.

      --
      If I were God, wouldn't I protect my churches from acts of me?
    2. Re:Cold/robo callers made me a jerk on the phone by DirtyLiar · · Score: 1

      Abuse. Lots of it. Insult their intelligence, parentage, choice of job... Anything you can think of. Be as unpleasant as possible.

      Do you really believe that abusing a phone monkey is going to do anything other than make you both tense and angry?

      I've been on both sides of the phone, and abuse means nothing to these companies. You are just taking your frustration out on a minimum wage worker trying to make a living (probably while looking for better work). You may indeed succeed in making that one individual quit his job, but what have you gained in the process? An ulcer? Believe me, there are 10 people to take the place of any single employee who quits.

      When I was making calls, I was told that I could NOT hang-up until I'd been told at-least three times that they were not interested. They enforced this rule, and others, by randomly listening in on calls all day long. And if they have had trouble with a sales person in the past, they pay particular attention to him. Too many violations of the rules and you were out.

      Abuse does not get you taken off of call registries. Only a handful things will ever get you off of those lists (in order of effectiveness):

      1) Say, "No thanks", and hang up.*
      2) Screening your calls. (IE, answering machine or a "secret" voice-mail box / code to ring an "extension". They are told NOT to leave messages.)**
      3) Add your phone number(s) to government "Do not call" lists. (What's nice about doing this is that violators can be fined or even sued, though YMMV depending where you are.)***
      4) Saying, "Remove my number from your list", or "Put me on the do-not-call list". (Won't always work because this is voluntary, but it might.)
      5) Not answering any call that has no caller-id, in addition to those that ID themselves as sales calls.
      6) Whistling your friends, family and business associates while blacklisting known "spammers". Works even better on the phone than with email. Almost all cell-phones can do this, and all VOIP phone services I know of can do this.
      7) Never buying anything over the phone. (Though requires a history, and takes a while to establish.)

      I tell you that eventually your number will start coming off of the lists if you just follow the first three of the suggestions I give above. Especially about screening calls. They mark down all kinds of statistics about each number they call: No Answer, Voice Mail, Hung Up, Busy, Call Back, Sale, etc. But one statistic they don't record is if the person that answers the phone is nasty. They don't care. If you are nice and buy, that's great. If you are nasty, but get badgered into buying anyway, that's great too! A sale is a sale.

      *When I was still taking business calls on my personal phone, I listened just long enough to establish that it was a sales call, then said, "Yeah, no thanks", and hung up. In fact, probably the "Yeah" was the only clear word, as the phone was already on it's way to the cradle when I spoke.

      *Many people say they are uncomfortable doing this, as it is rude. Let me tell you as an ex salesman, it is not rude. I'll tell you what IS rude though. Wasting the salesperson's time by acting as if you might buy it. I find it curious how some people would rather go ALL-OUT HOG-WILD with rudeness with name-calling and cursing at the salesperson, rather than just saying, "No thanks", and hanging up. Really, hanging up is the nicest thing you can do for them, and yourself. And I recommend saying "No thanks" not just to be polite, but to prevent them from calling right back thinking you got cut off.

      In fact, don't let them finish their spiel (yes, their whole speech is scripted out for them), or wait for an opening to speak. The whole thing is designed to NOT give you any place to politely opt-out. Interrupt them, saying "No thank-you", and hang-up. Don't wait for them to pause for breath, talk over them, then hang up.

      Fun fact: Neither the company, nor the salesperson, want's to spen

      --

      THINK! It's patriotic

    3. Re:Cold/robo callers made me a jerk on the phone by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      I'll tell you what IS rude though. Wasting the salesperson's time by acting as if you might buy it.

      Ah, so that is the way to make a salesman's life a misery! Thanks for that ; I shall apply it to all my future spam calls from anyone.

      You seem to be under the misapprehension that salesmen (or women) have a right to exist or to make a sale. Sorry ; not true.

      If I want to buy something, I will go out and research it, then buy it. You, as a salesman, service me by answering me when I get into contact with you ; not the other way around. You're the passive part of the equation.

      And no, you don't have the right to shove advertising in my face (physically, or online) ; my only response to that sort of thing is to take your information services, quiz your technical people for further information, get all the information I need to make my choice ... and then go and buy it from someone who I consider an ethical businessman and who doesn't pester me with advertising. If this give you the impression that your business is being raped ... well done ; you've got the message.

      Have a nice day, and go out of business soon!

      Oh, I see that your username is "DirtyLiar" ; uncommon honesty for a salesman.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  23. SE Asia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All of SE Asia is like those. Incoming texts and calls are always free to the receiver, only the sender pays.

    1. Re:SE Asia by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      All of the world outside of North America is like those. Incoming texts and calls are always free to the receiver, only the sender pays.

      FTFY

      Actually, I'm not 100% sure that this bizarre practice of charging the recipient of a call is unique to North America, but I can't think of another example.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  24. Lenny handles those calls for us by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just forward those calls to our good friend Lenny over at http://www.itslenny.com/

  25. Great fun to be had by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Why yes sir, I *would* like to take your survey that takes "only five minutes".

    And imagine dropping the number into every political database from every party... talk about re-distribution of wealth!

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  26. Premium Numbers in the US by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

    Unfortunately this is not supported in the US - all premium rate numbers are in the 900 area code, and I expect telemarketers generally avoid calling these.

    The EU practice of allowing these on any calling block would allow this in the US. I'm not sure the additional annoyance would be worth it.

  27. telemarketers are valuable by gzuckier · · Score: 1

    Seriously. If you want a shrink you have to pay a fortune. If you want to go to confession that's a whole big deal. If you want to just vent your friends and family get bored after a while. But here are these guys who call you up and won't hang up on you no matter how you blather on as long as you don't get abusive. Try it. The limit seems to be 45 minutes, then they say goodbye and hang up.

    --
    Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.