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How One Man Turns Annoying Cold Calls Into Cash

Posted by samzenpus on from the hoisting-with-his-own-petard dept.

First time accepted submitter georgeaperkins writes "A man targeted by marketing companies is making money from cold calls with his own premium-rate phone number. So far he's made £300 profit following a £10+VAT initial investment. The premium rate regulator has 'strongly discouraged' the practice, as it violates the code of practice. Nevertheless, the novel idea is sure to resonate with everyone worn down by mindless cold calling!"

54 of 227 comments (clear)

  1. So Full Of Win! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is epic win.

    1. Re:So Full Of Win! by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      It's just a shame he could only make 7p/minute from it. What happened to £1/minute premium rate lines?

      By the way, my free time is worth approximately £100/minute, in case anyone wanted to call me about PPI insurance.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    2. Re:So Full Of Win! by Zarjazz · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's just a shame he could only make 7p/minute from it. What happened to £1/minute premium rate lines?

      This isn't a new trick to me since I work for a telco that provides the infrastructure for a lot of these cold callers, I've seen it before.

      The premium rate 09 lines you are talking about are separately regulated and abuse is prosecuted. However the guy missed an opportunity here. He should have actually chosen an 070 number which is allocated by Ofcom for use of Personal Numbering Services, these can cost 50p - £1 to call. But since they start 07 most people think it's just another mobile number.

    3. Re:So Full Of Win! by shortscruffydave · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's just a shame he could only make 7p/minute from it. What happened to £1/minute premium rate lines?

      Actually, going for a cheaper rate is a smart move. A lot of companies block outgoing calls to >=£1/minute numbers, but something in the region of 10p/minute could slip through those filters....that allows him to get - and make money from - calls that he might not get if he'd gone for a more expensive line. And yes, I agree - epic win

    4. Re:So Full Of Win! by hoboroadie · · Score: 2

      I often tell them I'm off to get whomever they claim to be calling, then get busy, back to doing whatever it was before the interruption. For that level of service, $6.5 is almost reasonable.

      --
      They feared that it could be used to suppress protest or support unpopular rule.
    5. Re:So Full Of Win! by Ksevio · · Score: 2

      Your normal rate is £100/min? I gotta get into that industry!

  2. Billing bill collectors? by dicobalt · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Now that's an idea.

  3. Code of practice? by korbulon · · Score: 5, Funny

    Well I guess even whores have a code of practice.

    1. Re:Code of practice? by voss · · Score: 5, Funny

      Comparing regulators to prostitutes is really unfair to prostitutes.

    2. Re:Code of practice? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      taking pot-shots at the monumentally, epically difficult jobs of regulators is lazy comedy.

      / no, i am not a regulator, but I know what they do.

    3. Re:Code of practice? by FireFury03 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      taking pot-shots at the monumentally, epically difficult jobs of regulators is lazy comedy.

      / no, i am not a regulator, but I know what they do.

      I would have more sympathy if the regulator's response to flagrant law-breaking wasn't always simply to write a "stongly worded" letter to the company responsible, reminding them of their legal obligations. I dunno, but if I personally broke the law, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't get a letter reminding me that what I did was illegal and told not to do it again, especially if I'm doing the law breaking on a large and organised scale...

      --
      http://blog.nexusuk.org
    4. Re:Code of practice? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      They just haven't noticed he's a person not a business.
      If you personally broke the law, you get bubba up inside you for five to twenty years.
      If a business does it on a large and organized scale, bad, bad business. shouldn't do that. Feel bad. Feel bad? Good, we're done here, you can keep doing it now. Campaign contributions maybe? awww, so sweet, thank you.

    5. Re:Code of practice? by Tokolosh · · Score: 2

      What regulators do, is get captured.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture

      --
      Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
    6. Re:Code of practice? by Dishevel · · Score: 2
      The real issue is that regulators are government workers.

      We all know that government workers are shit. Sometimes they are government workers because they are shit and sometimes government work turns them into shit.

      Either way you end up with really expensive and intrusive shit.

      --
      Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
    7. Re: Code of practice? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      I'm a 7805, so I know what it's like. It's easy to become envious of the regulators that have more interesting jobs, like the LM317s, but the added responsibility wouldn't be worth it.

  4. Conversation by StripedCow · · Score: 5, Funny

    "I'm calling because I'm selling this great new product that can save you time and money."

    "Now that sounds very interesting! Could you hang on for a moment, I'll be back in a minute."

    ** leaves phone off hook **

    --
    If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
    1. Re:Conversation by StripedCow · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Now, premium rate phone number or not, if this is how ALL people treated markteers, then there would be no more cold calling.
      Quite simple if you think about it.

      --
      If Pandora's box is destined to be opened, *I* want to be the one to open it.
    2. Re:Conversation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      I send back an email to confirm to the spammers that this is an active email account

      FTFY

    3. Re:Conversation by marcansoft · · Score: 5, Funny

      I started doing this after getting a dozen Vodafone marketing calls. Except instead of just leaving the phone off-hook, I said "please hold while I transfer you" and then treated them to an endless random shuffle of Never Gonna Give you Up, Friday, Trololo, Caramelldansen, and Nyan Cat, played via a voice modem.

      They stopped calling after they got that a couple of times.

    4. Re:Conversation by jamesh · · Score: 5, Interesting

      "Hang on I'll just get my credit card" is likely to keep them waiting for longer

    5. Re:Conversation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I left the phone 'off the hook' once after I had said "no thanks, not interested" 3 times. Half an hour later I get a call from my mom saying this guy had called several people with the same last name because he thought something had happened to me.......

    6. Re:Conversation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Since the "From" address rarely is the true spammer's address, the answer mail will not inform the spammer about anything. If the mail address works, it will likely go to someone completely unrelated.

    7. Re:Conversation by mcgrew · · Score: 2

      That's what my dad does. He doesn't say "hang on a minute", when they start their spiel he puts the phone down and when it finally goes BEEP BEEP BEEP he hangs it up.

      I don't have a landline so I get few of these. I just curse them in the vilest language for calling cell phones when it may cost the person they're calling. I never leave my cell # with any commercial entity, but leave my work # instead. Not sure what I'll do when I retire.

      --
      Free Martian Whores!
    8. Re:Conversation by Defenestrar · · Score: 2

      Yes - they are humans on the other end of that line working in what I believe is the highest turn-over industry out there (at least I think that's true for the US, and I think the highest turnover sub-set among cold-callers is those who are on the debt-collection calls). I don't know what the turn-over rate is in the UK, but I suspect it's probably about the same.

    9. Re:Conversation by NatasRevol · · Score: 2

      How does 0 translate to 2?

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    10. Re:Conversation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yep. Because someone making minimum wage for 15 hours a week because they grew up in poverty and have no skill set doesn't deserve to be considered a human. Someone who can't find work anywhere but a temp agency and gets completely exploited as the company they're being contracted out to doesn't have to abide by the usual labor laws is most certainly not to be considered human.

      When I order a burger from McDonalds, I'm ordering it from nigger-cattle. Apes. Certainly not humans.

      Fuck off, ass hole.

    11. Re:Conversation by johanw · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Some poor people become pot dealers, some become telemarketeers. The difference between those two is that there is an actual demand for the services of the first.

  5. and why not? by sociocapitalist · · Score: 2

    Anyone understand how this violates the 'code of practice' and if such a violation is just frowned upon or is actually illegal ?

    --
    blindly antisocialist = antisocial
    1. Re:and why not? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Premium numbers must always be accompanied by pricing information (consumer protection laws). This guy probably just puts his premium number into forms without giving pricing information.

    2. Re:and why not? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      Yes, because I RTFA. Try it.

    3. Re:and why not? by Xest · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Businesses have often lobbied for codes of practice to be unenforceable so that nothing comes of them if they breach them so I doubt this is illegal, he'll just get a telling off from the regulator - as if he gives a shit.

      It breaks the code of practice supposedly because you have to list pricing information alongside premium rate numbers and when he fills in the forms for his phone number etc. there is no form field to do this.

      But I'm not convinced the code even applies, because the pricing information is meant for consumers and he's only giving these details to businesses who tend not to be covered by consumer protection laws (they're not protected by the sale of goods act for example).

      I think this is more the regulator trying to avoid a headache than him actually doing anything wrong. I'd be surprised if any enforcement could actually be taken against him successfully which is presumably why the regulator has said "We advise against this" rather than "We're going to have a word with him and make him stop because he's breaching the code" - I suspect they're "advising" and not "acting" because there's actually fuck all else they can do about it but we'll probably find out before long.

    4. Re:and why not? by jamesh · · Score: 3, Interesting

      the forms don't have a space for the prices. They don't care about the price.

      Then it would be against the code of practice to put your premium number on such a form.

      Still... if it wasn't _your_ number, then I guess you couldn't get into trouble. You wouldn't receive a cut, but the idea of them trying to sell something to the girl on the end of the "naughty nun spank hotline" might give you a smug sense of satisfaction.

    5. Re:and why not? by dominux · · Score: 2, Insightful

      0844 is national rate, not premium. Our office number is one digit away from the Maplin number.
      You can get a bit of revenue from an 0844, we don't from ours, but we get it for free as a SIP trunk and we get pretty much free outbound calling. We don't use phones much anyway really, nasty noisy things.

    6. Re:and why not? by RDW · · Score: 2

      The summary is misleading. In the BBC article, the regulator is claiming anyone who does this will be liable IF they breach the code ("Premium rate numbers are not designed to be used in this way and we would strongly discourage any listeners from adopting this idea, as they will be liable under our code for any breaches and subsequent fines that result.").

    7. Re:and why not? by namgge · · Score: 2

      Marketing companies making cold calls are not, AIUI, 'Consumers' and are thus not entitled to much in the way of protection.

    8. Re:and why not? by eth1 · · Score: 2

      the forms don't have a space for the prices. They don't care about the price.

      Then it would be against the code of practice to put your premium number on such a form.

      Still... if it wasn't _your_ number, then I guess you couldn't get into trouble. You wouldn't receive a cut, but the idea of them trying to sell something to the girl on the end of the "naughty nun spank hotline" might give you a smug sense of satisfaction.

      So just pair up with a buddy. You put his number on forms, and he puts yours.

  6. I've done the same for years by Captain+Hook · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I've got a personal number which costs more to ring than a standard mobile line, I set it up for the similar reasons, after entering details of an accident when I renewed my insurance I got bombarded by ambulance chasers.

    The only difference is that I don't get a cut of the call costs, I just wanted a way to give a telephone number on websites which comes through to my mobile phone but could easily be rerouted to voicemail off when the frequency of spam calls gets too high.

    Family and friends all get my real number while all companies get the forwarding number so I know that sending everything from the forwarding number to voicemail isn't going to affect people I actually want to talk to.

    --
    These comments are my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the other voices in my head.
    1. Re:I've done the same for years by memzer · · Score: 2

      I have a second prepaid mobile sim card for this purpose. It costs ~$30 for a year (au) and it's worth every cent.

    2. Re:I've done the same for years by Captain+Hook · · Score: 2

      The nice thing about the personal number system is it's free for me, the cost of the service is paid for through the higher call charges, thats why I don't get a cut of the increased charges like the bloke in TFA.

      --
      These comments are my personal opinions and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the other voices in my head.
    3. Re:I've done the same for years by DirtyLiar · · Score: 2

      Only if you live in fucking Yankland, you fucking Yank.

      Next time, before shooting your mouth off, realise that not only is there a world outside of the UNITED STATES OF HOOT LIKE GIBBONS AND INVADE SANDY COUNTRIES, but it's significantly bigger than you are.

      Wow. Got issues much?

      Of course, most of the other posts, including the OP, don't reference any country either, so the same could be said for all of those posters too.

      Besides, what part of that single sentence could be construed as, "shooting your mouth off"?

      Take some deep breaths and go take a lie down. Read a book, get laid, take a jog. You're feelings of paranoia, persecution and inferiority are showing.

      P.S.

      there a world outside of the UNITED STATES OF HOOT LIKE GIBBONS AND INVADE SANDY COUNTRIES

      LOL! You're just mad that's not you anymore!

      --

      THINK! It's patriotic

  7. Clear something up? by Justpin · · Score: 3, Interesting

    In Hong Kong it costs money to receive calls, they call it a connection fee. Which means that people simply never answer calls to unfamiliar numbers. It there such a thing in the US? As far as I know there is no such thing as a connection fee in the UK.

    1. Re:Clear something up? by BlacKSacrificE · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's going to be a great precedent and standard to set, especially when your daughter needs to use her friends phone to call you for help because hers just got trashed/out of credit/stolen.

      "I don't know this number, fuck that!"

      --
      [Sorry, this signature is unavailable in your country/region]
    2. Re:Clear something up? by heypete · · Score: 5, Informative

      For landline phones in the US, the recipient does not pay unless they have a toll-free number (e.g. a 1-800 number). There's no connection fees for receiving a call.

      Mobile phone numbers in the US are no different than landline phones for the calling party: there's no extra fee or anything for calling a mobile number. Calling a mobile costs precisely the same amount as calling any other phone number in that area code. The person with the mobile phone will be charged on a per-minute basis (unless they have an unlimited calling plan or it's during the "free nights and weekends" time that many plans offer) regardless of whether they are making or receiving a call.

      This is different from, say, Europe, where mobile phones are assigned numbers in special mobile-only prefixes. The person calling a mobile phone pays a slight premium, while the person receiving a call on their mobile pays nothing.

    3. Re:Clear something up? by MrDoh! · · Score: 2

      In the US, you pay for calls made and received (all part of your call allowance). In the UK, anyone calling you pays, after all, why should you pay for them to get in touch with you, you didn't ask them too. A far better way to handle it. Alas, in the US, you get charged both sides of the equation because... they can. *some networks mask this, offer free calls at certain times, or on same network, but you never know if the person calling you is going to cost you or not, after all, how do you know what network they're on?

      --
      Waiting for an amusing sig.
    4. Re:Clear something up? by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      Wait what!?
      Your mobile numbers have geographic area based prefixes?

      They didn't used to. Formerly they would create new prefixes and hand those to cellular companies. But now we have number portability. You can take your land number to a cellphone, or maybe even go the other direction. I don't care enough to know because I don't consider the phone to be the best way to reach me.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re:Clear something up? by nine-times · · Score: 4, Informative

      Your mobile numbers have geographic area based prefixes?...what part of "mobile" did you guys not understand?

      People in the US generally aren't getting charged for calling different area codes. I suppose some people still get "long distance charges", but most people are in a plan where they only get charged for calling a different country, and even then sometimes they can call Canada for free or something. To a large degree, the "area codes" are being used now just to allow for more numbers.

      In fact, lots of younger people don't have landlines, and only have mobile phones, and they try to keep their number throughout their lives. If you live in a major city, a lot of people you meet will have phone numbers from all over the country. The "area code" is no longer a good indicator of where you actually live.

    6. Re:Clear something up? by Miamicanes · · Score: 3, Informative

      The FCC set aside areacodes for mobile phones, but somewhere along the line, they were discontinued as "prejudicial".

      There was also a block of areacodes set aside for non-geographic personal numbers, but there was zero interest in them, because they gave you and your callers the worst of all worlds... you were charged for incoming calls as though it were a toll free number, and people calling you were charged as through they were making the most expensive domestic long-distance calls possible.

      I remember that sometime around the mid-90s, there was a bug in the ESS switching software used by BellSouth (probably others too) that allowed you to create a chain of adhoc-forwarded numbers that began with a toll-free 800 number, and ended with a local premium-rate 976 number, because there was no control in place to stop you from doing it, and the 976 billing logic charged the originator of the call rather than the forwarder.As far as I know, the practice was never actually approved, and people who did it ended up getting the money taken away from them.

      In the US, a leading '1' has ALWAYS signified your understanding that the number dialed isn't a local call, and might not necessarily be free. Back when areacodes always had 0 or 1 as the second digit, never as the first digit, and exchange codes (the 3 digits after the areacode) could not have 0 or 1 as the second digit, it worked something like this: Assume two Miami phones having numbers 305-222-2222 and 305-333-3333 and a Key West phone having number 305-444-4444:

      Back when 7-digit dialing was allowed, 305-222-2222 could cal 305-333-3333 by simply dialing 333-3333. No 0 or 1 within the first 3 digits, so 305 areacode was implied, as well as its status as a free call. However, if 305-222-2222 called the Key west number, he had two choices: 1-444-4444 or 1-305-444-4444 (leading 1= non-free, no 0/1 second digit implies 305 areacode)

      When 10-digit dialing was implemented to allow 786 areacode to be overlaid on Miami, 11-digit permissive dialing was enabled to avoid breaking compatibility with software and dialers that automatically added a leading '1' to any 10-digit phone number (yes, there were quite a few). So, 305-222-2222 could dial 305-333-3333 by dialing EITHER 305-333-3333 OR 1-305-333-33333. However, for calls to Key West, the 1 was absolutely required, so 305-222-2222 dialing 305-444-4444 would get a recording that the number was not local & required a 0 or 1 before dialing.

      Cell phones threw a new monkey wrench into the equation, because they (usually) had much larger "local" calling zones. For example, if you were a Sprint customer, everything from Orlando south to Key West was classified as a "local" call, including numbers outside your area code. So 305-222-2222 could dial 407-934-7639 without the leading 1, since to a Sprint customer who was present within the switching area of the number being called, it WAS a local call. It technically incurred per-minute airtime charges, but didn't incur additional long-distance.

      Where things got ugly was when you called people who were visiting with a mobile phone from another area. I don't think many people really understand what the billing logic was, because it wasn't a common scenario until the point when most mobile phones started to have the entire US as a local calling zone anyway. As I understand it, behind the scenes, if a Sprint customer in Miami called a Sprint customer from California who was in Orlando, Sprint's network would recognize that the caller and target were both handled by the Orlando switching center and complete it as a "local" call (even if the caller didn't have free long-distance anyway), but a landline phone (or non-Sprint mobile phone) in Miami would have gotten charged for the call to California, because their carrier would have terminated the call to Sprint's switching center in California, and Sprint itself would have transparently connected it to their Orlando switching center behind the scenes.

    7. Re:Clear something up? by rjstanford · · Score: 3, Informative

      ObXKCD: http://xkcd.com/1129/

      --
      You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
    8. Re:Clear something up? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      The optional "1" at the start of a US phone number is the country code. It's generally written as "+1" outside the US, but we just slap a "1" onto the front of the number. It is no longer required when dialing from within the US for any reason. It used to be the "long distance" digit, and used to be required if you were calling outside your local area (as defined by your regional Baby Bell). Largely, the leading 1 is ignored.

      The area code is a geographically allocated set of ten million phone numbers. It is 3 digits. It is only required if you are dialing a number outside of your current area code. The area code cannot begin with "1". Special "toll free" or "WATS" (Wide Area Telephone System) lines use area code 800. Due to huge growth in the use of WATS line usage in the 1990's, 888, 877, and 866 are also used. Special "toll collect" lines use area code 900.

      The exchange is the first 3 digits of the 7-digit phone number. It is generally allocated to a specific phone company exchange office that serves a particular area. Each one allots 10,000 phone numbers. It has been a required part of dialing since the early 1960's, when automated switching became the norm. Before that, you could dial with either a 4- or 5-digit number (5-digit dialing included the last digit of the exchange, and was only used in some large metropolitan areas). The extension cannot begin with "1". In olden times (the 1950's and 1960's) these were often represented as two letters and a number, and pronounced as a word and a number. My grandparents talked about having a number in the "Taylor-1" exchange. That's TA1, or 821. I suspect this was a mnemonic used to get people used to 7-digit dialing requirements. Internal ILEC and CLEC services use "010", as used in the old "10-10-whatever" toll services they used to advertise. Those are actually "1 ({your area}) 010-{internal *LEC extension}". The other reserved exchange is "555" which is never assigned for anything external to the carrier, with the exception of Directory Services, which is always 555-1212.

      The extension is the last 4 digits of the 7-digit phone number. This is, was, and always will be a required part of dialing a number. The only way to escape dialing entirely is to have the operator connect you, which is still available... for a price.

      Accepted dialing formats:
      country-area-exchange-extension (11 digits, only required outside of the US, but allowed within it)
      area-exchange-extension (10 digits, required when crossing an area boundary, otherwise allowed)
      country-exchange-extension (8 digits, the old "long distance across town" dialing format, allowed, but not used anymore)
      exchange-extension (7 digits, allowed ONLY when calling another number within the same area, currently the minimum number of digits allowed for a valid point-to-point call)

      Special-case numbers (not an exhaustive list):
      "911" (emergency services in most areas)
      "811" (some areas use this for construction site utility marking)
      "*55" (roadside assistance in some areas)
      "0" (operator assistance)

  8. Cold calls by Meeni · · Score: 2

    If human, ask them how they got the number and if I had previous business relationship in the past. Most collections are illegal, they will hangup immediately never to call again, because these words mean trouble to them.

    Robots: Reported to the FCC, everytime.

  9. It could be worse for the telemarketers. by RevWaldo · · Score: 2

    They could wind up calling Lenny. http://itslenny.com/

    .

    --
    Prisencolinensinainciusol. Ol Rait!
  10. Sticking it to the little guy. by Requiem18th · · Score: 2

    Personally I'm bothered that it bothers them. Obvisouly there is no rule yet that you can't use premium call services to get paid by telemarketeers because they are just people. The regulator seems to think that it's wrong that telemarketeers are compensating him for wasting his time. Why? They are a bunch of corporate sellouts thats why.

    --
    But... the future refused to change.
  11. Re:Definition of Abuse by Dishevel · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Except, as it says in TFA, the guy now "welcomes cold calls". I can see the point of slugging cold-callers with what is effectively a "fine", but once you go to the extreme of extending unsolicited calls just for the revenue, then that is just profiteering.

    I am cool with that. If they do not want to pay him for his time they can choose to not call him.

    --
    Why is it so hard to only have politicians for a few years, then have them go away?
  12. Re:Definition of Abuse by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

    It does make the moral standing of the actor more questionable; but I'm not sure that that's a problem; Cold-callers are one of the few life forms even lower than spammers, so somebody who preys on cold callers(however much I might not admire his moral uprightness) still seems like a net win.