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Obama Admin Says It Won't Fight Looser Marijuana Laws, With Conditions

schwit1 writes with news that the Obama administration has released a memo stating that it will not fight liberalized marijuana laws in states like Colorado and Washington, but made that promise conditional on a set of guidelines, such as requiring efforts to dissuade underage use. From the Washington Post's coverage: "Deputy Attorney General James M. Cole detailed the administration's new stance, even as he reiterated that marijuana remains illegal under federal law. The memo directs federal prosecutors to focus their resources on eight specific areas of enforcement, rather than targeting individual marijuana users, which even President Obama has acknowledged is not the best use of federal manpower. Those areas include preventing distribution of marijuana to minors, preventing the sale of pot to cartels and gangs, preventing sales to other states where the drug remains illegal under state law, and stopping the growing of marijuana on public lands."

33 of 526 comments (clear)

  1. Discouraging underage use? by cold+fjord · · Score: 5, Informative
    --
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    1. Re:Discouraging underage use? by icebike · · Score: 5, Informative

      There was also a study of New Zealanders. They found that people who began using pot earlier in life and used it most frequently over the years experienced an average decline of eight IQ points by the time they turned 38. By comparison, those who never smoked pot had an average increase of one IQ point by the same age.

      A reanalysis of the New Zealand data by Ole Røgeberg of the Ragnar Frisch Center for Economic Research in Oslo, however, suggested that the IQ difference could be explained by socioeconomic factors. People who start smoking marijuana at an earlier age are often less intelligent to begin with.

      You will find most of the research is similarly tainted.

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    2. Re:Discouraging underage use? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The ideal solution to me would be to treat it like tobacco: Keep it legal, but at the same time take measures to very strongly discourage use.

    3. Re:Discouraging underage use? by echnaton192 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Maybe this is why?

      Is Marijuana a Safe Drug? Teenage Brain at Risk for Drug Abuse

      Why modded -1? This study supports other studies that came to similar conclusions:

      Yes. Marijuhana-abuse by minors is a big problem. Not if done once, but an abuse, that does not affect grown ups (from 21 or better, 25 years on) very much has a devastating effect on their brains. The reason, as I understood it, is the rearranging of the whole brain structure while being juvenile. This rearrangement, as new scans showed, is much more fundamental than previously known. And smoking grass fucks that up big time. And it messes with the hormon levels. Those rearrangements possibly can not take place after the normal timeframe. If they were haltet or obfuscated by marihuana abuse, those youngsters have a permanent brain damage.

      But: Abusing any brain affecting drug in that time will possibly do the same, so drinking alcohol instead of smoking is not an option. If I had children, I would insist on limiting marijuhana use to one time pet year, four times max until they are 21 (you are an adult at 18 here, so a bit of cooperation from the other side would be necessary. Any smoking of marihuana under the age of 16 would be completely out of the question.

      Your war on drugs was one big mistake. But inform yourself before letting your kids use it limitless. If those studies are right, they suggest that using marihuana (esp. in a vaporizer) is indeed less dangerous than alcohol for the body. And does not effect grown ups as much as heavy drinking would. Even really heavy abuse does not make you significantly dumber, just a measurable bit and it is possible that the brain could recover, except for some problems with the short time memory, which MAY stay. But for youngsters that use marijuhana heavily, it may be that it really blows their mind away. But they would be DEAD if they drank as much, so demonizing pot is really dumb. Being dead means no brain functions whatsoever, so instead of being less stellar in school, they would rot...

      But: It seems like the dangers to young people were underestimated.

    4. Re:Discouraging underage use? by Mordok-DestroyerOfWo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'm no medicalologist, but I have to imagine that mass consumption of any mind-altering chemical (tobacco, alcohol, caffeine, etc.) while the brain is still developing will have an effect. The question is, is it worth keeping our prisons full of non-violent offenders to discourage their use?

      --
      "Never let your sense of morals prevent you from doing what is right" - Salvor Hardin
    5. Re:Discouraging underage use? by icebike · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The ideal solution to me would be to treat it like tobacco: Keep it legal, but at the same time take measures to very strongly discourage use.

      Except the tobacco scare tactics are unwarranted, with the possible exception for under-age use, or use while driving, as with any intoxicant.
      Beer and wine regulatory mechanisms seem more appropriate. In fact Washington State tasked the Liquor board with the job of managing Marijuana sales and use in the state.

      Yet still feds seem intent on sticking their oar in.

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    6. Re:Discouraging underage use? by interval1066 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Regulate it like alcohol, including enforcing bans on driving while high, just like alcohol. Now tax the hell out of it, and end of discussion. The "war" on pot was a rediculous waste of fed and state resources, and created a permanant underclass of unemployable criminals who've done nothing more thann get high. The fed needs to get off its high horse and rewrite whatever laws are keeping pot in the "felony" lists (other than, like I said, driving while high that results in killing someone, maybe). Enough is enough. Knock off this sham.

      --
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    7. Re:Discouraging underage use? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I modded you insightful but I'd like to challenge one point of yours: what makes you believe that smoking marijuana impairs one's ability to drive? This seems to be a common assumption among non-smokers, but I can tell you from (daily) experience such is not the case. It requires the consumption of quite a bit of pot to impair one's driving -- usually this means eating it rather than smoking it -- and once a person is that high they don't want to drive. It's just too stressful (as opposed to driving drunk, where alcohol gives one 'liquid courage').

      Even with alcohol, one is considered legally drunk much before they've consumed enough to actually be impaired.

      A person shouldn't be considered impaired just because a particular chemical is in their body. They should be given basic coordination tests -- such as a field sobriety test (but something that's computerized, kind of like a video game, to eliminate bias on the part of the officer). If you can't pass a field sobriety test because you're too old, you shouldn't be able to drive. If you can't pass it because of a prescribed medication, you shouldn't be able to drive. If you can't pass a field sobriety test because you're just a naturally uncoordinated person, you shouldn't be able to drive. A person's BAC or THC level is irrelevant, what's important is their ability to control a vehicle.

    8. Re:Discouraging underage use? by couchslug · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Is MJ safer than jail?

      The laws don't have their intended effect.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    9. Re:Discouraging underage use? by icebike · · Score: 4, Informative

      Marijuana impairs attention. That seems to be the linkage that most people cite. But I find no hard statistics on this either.

      Since there is no legally recognized impairment level for Marijuana, and no legally recognized tests, (other than blood draws) either device based tests, or field sobriety tests, its hard to prove the extent to which it is present in accident situations. So if there was a car crash, the police have no real way to prove it was even a factor.

      University of Washington cited an Australian study showing that the research is a total mess in this area. So a local TV station then went out and did their own tests.

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    10. Re:Discouraging underage use? by lgw · · Score: 5, Informative

      No, they are statistical science. They say nothing about the behavior of individuals, but make useful predictions about the statistical distribution of behaviors in the population. Just like the gas laws, Zero Kelvin.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    11. Re:Discouraging underage use? by mjwx · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Marijuana impairs attention. That seems to be the linkage that most people cite. But I find no hard statistics on this either.

      Well, there's plenty of evidence that Marijuana has effects on response time (like most depressants).

      For most of us who've smoked pot, we know it definitely affects your faculties to the point where you cant drive safely, more over this is more noticeable to the user than it is with alcohol. Unlike alcohol, pot users tend to avoid taking extreme risks like excessive speed (people driving high tend to be slower than the median, which is still bad) but still have the problems with fine motor control (keeping the wheel straight) as well as reduced response speed and impaired perception.

      I'm pro-decriminalisation of marijuana, but really it needs to be treated like other legal mind altering drugs (I.E. Alcohol). In Australia we treat driving under the influence of drugs to be the same as driving under the influence of Alcohol but you also get a drug conviction, not just a DUI conviction.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    12. Re:Discouraging underage use? by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 5, Interesting

      And I challenge your statement that

      A person's BAC or THC level is irrelevant, what's important is their ability to control a vehicle.

      Back in the late 70s, Car & Driver magazine did an informal study (with a couple of professional test drivers) which was later reprinted in High Times, IIRC.

      Their results appeared to indicate that small amounts of cannabis actually improved the pros' driving performance slightly and for a very short while, after which performance fell rapidly to much less than normal. They found in addition that using more than a small amount also quickly caused the pros' driving performance to decrease to much less than normal.

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    13. Re:Discouraging underage use? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      no legally recognized tests, (other than blood draws) either device based tests, or field sobriety tests

      I've got a field test - just ask them a question, and then ask them the same question 2 minutes later.

      I'm not sure how to end that joke, but it seemed funny enough (I'm high as fuck right now.)

    14. Re:Discouraging underage use? by Inda · · Score: 4, Interesting

      For the first time ever, I've grown tobacco in my greenhouse, in the UK. I've also grown it outside but the size of the plants are about 50% smaller than the greenhouse plants. I'm going to harvest any day now.

      One of the most simplist plants I've grown. They've needed no TLC.

      My peers are interested in doing the same next year. Seeds are a penny each. One plant could last a smoker a month. A square metre per plant is not a lot of space for an expensive crop.

      Um, my point: people will grow both plants if they have a little knowledge (three cheers for the internet).

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      This post contains benzene, nitrosamines, formaldehyde and hydrogen cyanide.
  2. Weasel words by fhic · · Score: 5, Insightful

    All of these "conditions" are arbitrary and open to whatever interpretation the feds feel like today. In the meantime, it's still being kept as a Schedule 1 drug. This administration has repeatedly and consistently said one thing and done another. You'll forgive me if I don't believe a word of this, which has no more weight than a touchy-feely press release.

  3. Re:The emperor has no clothes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Actually, that is exactly what it does. If you think the executive has ever enforced all the laws on the book, you are a fool. The resources simply have never existed.

    It's just the highest level of prosecutorial discretion.

  4. Re:The emperor has no clothes by zlives · · Score: 5, Funny

    what is this constitution you speak off?

  5. More fallout from Snowdon.... by whoever57 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    a rather crude attempt to get Obama's supporters back on his side.

    "Don't look over there..... look here, shiny!"

    --
    The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    1. Re:More fallout from Snowdon.... by Ghjnut · · Score: 4, Funny

      If he gets us all thoroughly stoned, we may forget what we were up in arms about. That conniving bastard!

      --
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  6. Re:The emperor has no clothes by LetterRip · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Hell, I'm pro-legalization, but Obama's position does not constitutionally allow him to pick and choose which laws he will and will not enforce. Not that it's ever stopped him.

    The government has limited resources and it is literally impossible to enforce all of the federal laws to the full extent. Therefore the government must prioritize enforcement. If some laws are so low in priority that there is no enforcement, then congress can increase funding for federal law enforcement officials if they really want those enforced.

  7. Yes, but what about banking? by 14erCleaner · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Are the Feds going to stop harassing banks that accept marijuana businesses as customers? Currently, medical dispensaries have to operate as cash-only businesses, which leaves them vulnerable to robberies.

    --
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    1. Re:Yes, but what about banking? by PraiseBob · · Score: 5, Informative

      Also relevant: DEA bans Armored car services from picking up Pot Shop cash

      Step 1) Prevent credit cards from being used
      Step 2) Prevent armored car services from being used
      Step 3) Complain about the high number of robberies and crime that type of business "attracts" and use that as justification for more regulation / bans

  8. Re:The emperor has no clothes by KiloByte · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No, this means the amount of laws needs to be cut by a factor of 100 if not 1000.

    --
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  9. Re:The emperor has no clothes by Mr.+Slippery · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Well, it used to be a seriously taken document...

    When was that?

    The Alien and Sedition Acts were passed just seven years after the Bill of Rights. The Bill Of Rights was pretty dormant until the 1930s, and nobody took that "equal protection" bit seriously until the 1960s.

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  10. Re:The emperor has no clothes by JohnG · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Well, the constitution doesn't allow the federal government to enforce marijuana laws at all. That's why they had to pass an amendment to enforce alcohol prohibition at the federal level. Aside from preventing the sale of marijuana across state lines, the federal government has no constitutional authority to enforce the laws that Obama is saying he will be lenient on. Seems to me this is one of the few times that he actually does understand the restrictions on his power.

  11. Re:The emperor has no clothes by Frobnicator · · Score: 4, Informative

    In the United States, both selective enforcement and selective prosecution are generally legal.

    You can go back over a century to Yick Wo v Hopkins (1886) to see SCOTUS rulings on that. There are probably older rulings than that, but I'm too lazy to look them up.

    Impartial selective enforcement is legal to a degree. On its face police cannot enforce every law on the books. Even if they do intervene, the officer may know there is insufficient evidence for a known violation. Even if they intervene and there is likely sufficient evidence, they may believe a lesser action is appropriate, such as giving an individual a warning for a minor offense. Similarly for selective prosecution, the state is not required to blindly prosecute every offense, but to use prudence in selecting which cases to prosecute. Yes sometimes it is abused, but generally it is to the citizen's favor of dropping a case rather than abuses of prosecuting aggressively.

    Prejudicial selective enforcement is not legal. Only applying the law to people of a specific skin color or economic status or age or other aspect, that is unlawful.

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  12. I really like these new Marijuana laws by rsilvergun · · Score: 5, Interesting

    they let the police ignore wealthy smokers while still using the Federal Law to lock up poor people. It's a great way to keep the poor out of your neighborhood. Odds are if you get a group of lower income people together at least one has pot on him, and Federal law lets you seize everyone's property. Sure, legally you get it back, but if you're working 50+ hours/week at two $7.25/hr jobs who's got time for that (unless you can afford a lawyer, but then wealth rears it's head again).

    So viva la Medical Marijuana, and our two separate legal systems: One for the poors and one for the rich.

    --
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  13. Re:The emperor has no clothes by jcr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Federal marijuana prohibition is not a law, it is a usurpation. It took a constitutional amendment to ban alcohol, and that amendment was repealed. There is no legal authority whatsoever for the federal government to ban a drug.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  14. Re:The emperor has no clothes by gman003 · · Score: 4, Funny

    NCC-1700, USS Constitution. First ship in the Constitution class, which included the NCC-1701 Enterprise.

  15. Re:The emperor has no clothes by Froboz23 · · Score: 4, Funny

    Establishing drug legislative policy requires a joint effort between the states and the federal government, especially when reefering to marijuana, instead of this state-by-state grass roots effort. It’s high time that they hashed these problems out. Still, it's nice to see that Eric Holder is willing to be blunt about this issue instead of just blowing smoke. He understands that we'ed all be better off with this decision.

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  16. Take MJ off schedule 1, please by PeterM+from+Berkeley · · Score: 4, Interesting

    MJ has been shown to have legitimate medical uses. It doesn't belong on Schedule 1.

    If it's off Schedule 1 then research to use it SAFELY as a drug can proceed far more easily, and maybe we can use it for things like neuropathic pain and appetite recovery during chemotherapy WITHOUT the potential brain-damaging side effects.

    I've got a friend who has neuropathic pain and none of the legal drugs work for him. And he can't use MJ because he's subject to drug testing.

    Take MJ off Schedule 1 and maybe he can stop living with pain 24/7!

    --PM

  17. Re:Why does everybody want to get on drugs? by manwargi · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Everyone has a vice for coping with a hard, painful world. Sometimes it is drinking. Sometimes it is smoking. Sometimes it is cheating on their partner. Porn. Hard drugs; and some would dare to argue that prescribed psyche medication is the same thing but more legal. Escapism to the fantasy of books/movies/games. The excitement of gambling. In the absence of these things people will do absolutely absurd things to get out of their skull such as strangling themselves or "i-dosing". Don't forget about suicide. Many brilliant minds belong to someone addicted to something or depressed and looking for a way out. While I don't smoke or use any drugs myself I won't judge anybody who does too hard.