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At Current Rates, Tesla Could Soon Suck Up Worldwide Supply of Li-Ion Cells

cartechboy writes "Lets just say Elon Musk may need to go battery shopping, like, big-time. Here's some little-understood Tesla math that could turn the global market for cylindrical lithium-ion cells upside down by 2015. It turns out the massive Model S battery takes almost 2,000 times the number of cells a basic laptop does. Assume Tesla just doubles production from its current 21K cars/year to 40K cars/year. (Something it expects to do by 2015). At that point, Tesla would require the *entire* existing global capacity for 18650 commodity cells. That assumes no other growth, no next gen model, nada. What should Elon do? Better get on the horn to Panasonic and Samsung."

13 of 351 comments (clear)

  1. On the plus side... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Our newfound infatuation with extremely flat laptops that have about as many user-servicable parts as 2001's Monolith means that demand for 18650 Li-ion cells in laptops should be plummeting! Problem solved.

    Now we just need to go liberate whoever is living on top of our lithium, and we are good to go.

    1. Re:On the plus side... by dj245 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Our newfound infatuation with extremely flat laptops that have about as many user-servicable parts as 2001's Monolith means that demand for 18650 Li-ion cells in laptops should be plummeting! Problem solved. Now we just need to go liberate whoever is living on top of our lithium, and we are good to go.

      There is a difference between a "battery" or "battery pack" and a "battery cell". One "battery" generally needs to have several "battery cells" inside. The voltage of the battery "cell" is determined by chemistry and can not be changed. To make higher voltages, you need to use more cells or a different chemistry. The simplest example is a 9V (PP3) battery. Alkaline chemistry gives a per-cell output of abour 1.5v, so to get 9v you need 6 cells. Usually this comes in the form of 6 AAAA batteries inside.

      --
      Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
  2. Statistical fallicies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If we extrapolate this curve and assume everything else remains constant, DOOOOOOOOOM!!!!

    But it gets the clicks, and that's all that matters on the tubes.

  3. Well... by nitehawk214 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Make more?

    Crisis solved. I will even waive my customary consulting fee.

    --
    I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
  4. Re:18,650? Really? by homsar · · Score: 5, Informative

    18650 is the name of the size of cell. See this table.

  5. price competition via supply shortfall. by goombah99 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I wonder which has the better profit margin, electronic devices or Tesla? Presumably that decides how this plays out. The interesting thing is that it's going to become a barrier to entry for electric car makers. The one with the highest profit margin can set the price of the batteries above the profit margin of the competition when there is a supply shortfall.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    1. Re:price competition via supply shortfall. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      JESUS CHRIST it's a li-on, GET IN THE CAR!

    2. Re:price competition via supply shortfall. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      The li-on is already in the car! It's a trap!

    3. Re:price competition via supply shortfall. by msauve · · Score: 5, Funny

      Just wait until the new titanium-graphite (TiGr) and beryllium-argon (BeAr) batteries reach the market.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    4. Re: price competition via supply shortfall. by xaxa · · Score: 5, Funny

      Whoosh!

      Tungsten-hydroxy-osmium-hydride? Sounds expensive!

  6. Re:18,650? Really? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 5, Funny

    Basically, they're on their way to consume the li-on's share of Li-Ion cells. Sounds about right!

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
  7. Perspective is important by wchin · · Score: 5, Informative

    The lithium ion 18650 cylindrical cell production has been dropping as laptop demand has dropped and as laptops are moving to lithium polymer flat pack batteries.

    Panasonic/Sanyo has had to close factories. Originally, Panasonic's plants that were acquired from Sanyo were supposed to be able to produce 300 million cells in their Suminoe plant in Osaka, Japan in just stage 1.

    http://www.eetasia.com/ART_8800603184_765245_NT_5f784554.HTM

    That plant alone, running at full stage 1 capacity could produce enough batteries for 40,000 85kWh Model S's. The demand from Tesla is strong enough that they are expanding production again:

    http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2013-08-21/news/41433228_1_lithium-ion-batteries-production-line#

    However, it really isn't the Model S or Model X that will have the issue, or even the initial production of whatever Gen 3 car that is coming. The big issue is making enough batteries for millions of EVs, and that will take some planning for the necessary expansion.

  8. Re:so glad for the solution by cribera · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Lithium doesn't come from rare earth ores. It's in fact almost on the opposite end of the periodic table, being the first metal (after hydrogen and helium).

    It's mainly found in Bolivia, which is a bit of a problem: Bolivia would like to have a domestic battery industry (higher revenue), instead of exporting raw lithium. The problem? A 20th century socialist for president, who is quite successfully scaring away international investment. As a result, the main exporter is Chile, which has smaller deposits.

    In reality, bolivian government is not allowing transnational companies get the lithium for pennies, as they do in other countries who were servile to transnational power, or as happened in Bolivia before.

    They are investing heavily (Bolivia is still poor, but its economy is growing steadily, while other countries were affected by the world crisis) in their own R&D, and they consider that no matter how long it takes for them to get everything going on, it's better than the alternative that letting trasnational companies get the lionshare of the profits.

    Think about it, 2 alternatives for Bolivia.

    A) Zero pennies now, for getting big profits in the future by controlling its own Lithium production.

    B) Small profits now, letting the corporations get the lionshare forever.

    They chose A, wisely IMO. In fact, that example should be followed by more poor countries, isn't this a good way to stop corporations greed to keep them in poverty while they earn huge profits on the resources of the country?