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How Africa Will 'Leapfrog' Wired Networks

umarkalim writes "In an interview with Al Jazeera, Les Cottrell at the SLAC National Accelerator Laboratory explains how Africa will actually 'leapfrog' the need to install hard-wired cables. He says it's often overlooked that the continent is huge and that the countries are diverse. He says, 'the cost of the infrastructure is quite high, especially if you have to connect every home with copper cables and fiber-optic cables ... I think in many cases Africa will actually "leapfrog" the need to install hard-wired cables everywhere, and will be able to use different techniques such as the BRCK modem, the low-earth orbiting satellites or the 3G solutions to get connectivity to where they need.'"

183 comments

  1. Wireless sucks by MightyYar · · Score: 4, Funny

    I still can't "leapfrog" wireless in my house. Running CAT6 all over the damn place.

    --
    W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    1. Re:Wireless sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Wired will always be superior to wireless. Wireless is what you use when you don't have access to wired internet. With wireless you're sharing your bandwidth with everyone and their brother. With wired, you have a dedicated pipe right to your computer. I suspect that in Africa they will be deploying wireless due to the fact they don't have the infrastructure to do anything better.

    2. Re:Wireless sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Or perhaps they can just do like India

      http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thetreeofliberty.com%2Fvb%2Fshowthread.php%3Ft%3D142839&h=0&w=0&sz=1&tbnid=aGFAr9WTVQ2pUM&tbnh=184&tbnw=274&zoom=1&docid=IXBjg5RBkmFF0M&hl=en&ei=nrcmUoivGsrm2gWnpYD4BQ&ved=0CAMQsCU

    3. Re:Wireless sucks by demonlapin · · Score: 4, Informative

      They don't, but it's interesting how good they can make wireless. Went on safari in Kenya and Tanzania last year. I had cell signal everywhere and 3G almost everywhere. I was on big roads, of course, but service really was impressive.

    4. Re:Wireless sucks by DavidClarkeHR · · Score: 0

      I still can't "leapfrog" wireless in my house. Running CAT6 all over the damn place.

      On a more serious note, look how well china is doing by skipping a generation of technology. Sure, they're ruining the atmosphere and certainly burning a few bridges that won't ever get crossed again ... but ... PROGRESS.

      oh. and profit, too.

      --
      - Nec Impar Pluribus, or so I'm told.
    5. Re:Wireless sucks by PPH · · Score: 3, Interesting

      With wired, you have a dedicated pipe right to your computer.

      Dedicated from the street into your home. Further out than that, you are sharing the cable or fiber with your entire neighborhood. And if the operator decides they want to reserve more bandwidth for on demand TV or whatever, you get squeezed onto what is left. Along with all the porn downloading, BitTorrenting gamers in town.

      Wireless is great because all the bandwidth hogs hate it and leave it alone.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    6. Re:Wireless sucks by gerf · · Score: 2

      And it's cheaper, with Cell C competing against MTN and the likes, and winning. Prices have come down drastically since I've been there, to the point of making my Verizon plan look uncivilized.

    7. Re:Wireless sucks by xQx · · Score: 2

      Correct. But would you prefer a contended 10GB/s fiber connection, or a contended 100MB/s LTE connection?

      Yes, Wireless is getting better, but so is copper and so is fiber.

      The current fiber speed record (held by NTT Japan) is 1,000,000 GB/s; compare this to wireless: Speeds of over 1 GB/s are expected to be delivered by 802.11ac.

      Wireless has been "the future" for the last 40 years. Fixed technologies will always be more expensive to install, but faster, more reliable and more scalable than wireless. It's just physics.

    8. Re:Wireless sucks by xQx · · Score: 2

      Do you really need CAT6 in your house?

      In the entire time that you've had your network, have you ever exceeded the limitations of Cat5e?

      CAT6 isn't just more expensive, it's a bastard to work with.

    9. Re:Wireless sucks by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

      Just planning ahead. Saves the need to rip and relay should ten-gig ethernet ever make it to the home.

    10. Re:Wireless sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have not ran anything but Cat6 for the last 5 years, its all the company I work for buys and therefore all that is ran in my house :)

    11. Re:Wireless sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Correct! using the term leapfrog is dumb, that makes it sound superior, wireless will never be better then a direct wire that has all the bandwidth with less interference and a direct point to point link to your PC.
      I will stick with my current cable connection, untill I get some fiber thanks!

    12. Re:Wireless sucks by Darinbob · · Score: 2

      You need to string out the wires anyway. Most of the expense will be the long distance wires, the cheap part would only be the last few yards that wireless covers. Wireless makes more sense with high population density, but Africa is low density. Once you've strung out cable to a small village for the access point then it's not much of a big deal to just run a short wire around.

      Wireless I suspect will mean lots of batteries, most people when they say "wireless" means not attached to a power cable. That's a lot of batteries and we still don't have a nice way to dispose of the old ones.

      If we're going to "leapfrog" then let's leapfrog to a better solution.

    13. Re:Wireless sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      latency is the real issue, if wireless can improve that (which is a big ask) then it can be viable. Don't get me wrong 10GB/s would be great but what are we downloading that is that big, 100MB/s would be more than enough for me and I'm a pretty heavy user. But without better latency it will always feel second class no matter how high the download rate is, if it takes longer to send the request for a page than it does to load it you have issues (and gaming seriously suffers).

    14. Re:Wireless sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh let them have a go, we were wrecking the place for decades before they had a go, and it's not like we are any better now, we just export all of our garbage to china so we don't look like the bad guys. I'm not sure the world could survive china going green right now everything would go up in price and they wouldn't be interested in taking our crap because it would cost too much to process. Also co2 emissions per capita are much lower in china then in almost all of the developed countries.

    15. Re:Wireless sucks by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1

      My experience in the Ivory Coast was that I could rarely get a working 3G data connection in the more populous parts of Abidjan (Koumassi for example), but it worked ok in more upscale areas (Zone 4).

      Out near the Liberian border (around Binhouye) I got an amazingly good EDGE signal - slowish data rates of course but incredibly reliable. I was probably the only person using mobile internet for 10's or even 100s of km.

      Of course that was last year so everything has probably completely changed since then.

      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
    16. Re:Wireless sucks by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Once you've strung out cable to a small village for the access point then it's not much of a big deal to just run a short wire around.

      It's quite expensive to retrofit cables to existing areas and buildings, if you have to dig it all up just for that it's often more cost efficient to do wireless. However new buildings are different, you're going to dig up the ground to put in electricity/water/sewage anyway, pull all the cables in the walls along with everything else. I can't speak much for Africa but here in Norway I'm fairly sure fiber will become standard through "organic" growth but replacing most buildings takes 50-100 years, the only question is how much faster we'll go by retrofitting.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    17. Re:Wireless sucks by Ragzouken · · Score: 1

      what about every single average joe using netflix you're sharing your wireless with?

    18. Re:Wireless sucks by jimshatt · · Score: 1

      most people when they say "wireless" means not attached to a power cable

      This article is about wired vs wireless *networking*. But I suspect power cabling is an issue as well. Otherwise they could just do Ethernet over Power (EoP, aka Power line communication).

    19. Re:Wireless sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh let them have a go, we were wrecking the place for decades before they had a go, and it's not like we are any better now, we just export all of our garbage to china so we don't look like the bad guys. I'm not sure the world could survive china going green right now everything would go up in price and they wouldn't be interested in taking our crap because it would cost too much to process. Also co2 emissions per capita are much lower in china then in almost all of the developed countries.

      Absolutely not. Would you let young children seriously hurt themselves simply because you were able to?

    20. Re:Wireless sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What are you going to do? How are you going to solve the problem? How are you going to give everyone in china a similar lifestyle as more developed countries and then how are you going to stop the 3 times increase in co2 emmissions that that would cause? Got a lot of smart asses that reackon they can solve the worlds problems but not many solutions. If we stopped spending trillions of dollars on weapons i guess it might be possible.

    21. Re:Wireless sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Cat6 is no more difficult to work with than Cat5e, at least as long as you are observing bending radius, if you are not, then you are doing it wrong and your cabling is not up to spec.

      It's marginally more expensive, but not nearly as expensive as having to rewire with Cat6 or HDMI when you decide to run something other than GigE.

      The only difference between Cat5e and Cat6 is a small difference in diameter of conductors and a t-shaped conditioner replacing the stranded polyester conditioner used in Cat5e. It's slightly fatter but not enough to make it harder to work with, and makes it easier to observe bend radius as it is less flexible.

      I also wired my house with Cat6, though I'm pretty sure my terminations aren't spec (I'm not a professional cabler).

      Also many of the cable specifications are not so shit will work, but so that EMI limits are observed. GigE in practice works over all sorts of non-spec cabling and damaged cabling, and the terminals have no way of knowing the cable has excessive radiation, and it's also not likely to cause observed interference problems in a domestic setting, particularly with the low volume of installed and utilised cabling. The specifications are there to ensure correct operation in the worst allowable environment, and ensure correct operation of other delicate signalling equipment that might occur in the same environment.

      I have seen ethernet framing errors in dense datacenter and factory structured cabling, I have never observed framing errors on any home networks or outdoor use at festivals (and this was over cabling that was over the maximum cabling length specified by 802.3). The reality is homes are both quieter in terms of EMI sources and have less equipment that is adversely affected by slight EMI violations, and don't have compliance officers or FCC agents waving magic wands around looking for out-of-spec EMI sources.

    22. Re:Wireless sucks by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      latency is the real issue, if wireless can improve that (which is a big ask) then it can be viable. Don't get me wrong 10GB/s would be great but what are we downloading that is that big, 100MB/s would be more than enough for me and I'm a pretty heavy user.

      Trying streaming Netflix or Hulu along with your neighbors.... All of a sudden, that shared 100MB/s becomes 2MB/s or less, and a stuttering image for your viewing pleasure. Or try uploading those nifty 20+MB images you just took to your favorite photo printer to create a poster or two. You might be there a while. Yes, this is also a problem with wired, at least in the US, with hugely asymmetric upload / download ratios. I have wireless N in the house, I'm running cable next week to remove my HTPC from wireless, it's just too slow.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    23. Re:Wireless sucks by msauve · · Score: 1

      s/GB/Gb/

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    24. Re:Wireless sucks by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Do you really need CAT6 in your house?

      No, but this way I don't have to run cable twice. It's not substantially more expensive compared to the time spent dragging it through walls.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    25. Re:Wireless sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, it's great because it sucks? Are you Charlie from 'It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia'?

    26. Re:Wireless sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's a fairly worst case scenario but still, Oh no it took 10 seconds to upload my nifty images. White man problems dude the Africans won't care. A solid 2 MB can still stream video and i don't think you can get netflix there any way, but you'll be able to download the seasons torrent much quicker than you could watch it.

    27. Re:Wireless sucks by necro81 · · Score: 1

      Wired will always be superior to wireless

      Only superior by certain obvious, quantifiable, prima facia metrics: speed, latency, bandwidth, reliability. This is why Les Cottrell is probably wrong about leapfrogging. You need to have high bandwidth, low latency, and reliability (at least on the back haul) in order to have an effective network.

      Wired, however, tends to lag on a metric that matters a whole hell of a lot to end users: usability. The fastest wired network is useless by any measure if it isn't where you are when you need it. Unplugging a device, whether handheld or laptop, is a huge improvement in usability. Radio waves can go where wires can't or don't go. Even a slow, intermittent, shared network is better than none at all. And for those reasons, wireless will be a big part of bringing the internet to the rest of the world.

      We have liberated ourselves in big ways from the power cord - why should we continue to tie ourselves to the network cable?

      (that said: I still prefer wired networks in many applications for the reasons I listed above. Sitting at my desk, I want a dedicated pipe that can transfer gigabytes in a couple of seconds. But I enjoy being able to use the internet while walking around town. When I'm in bed watching Netflix, I don't want to have to string an ethernet cable halfway around the house)

    28. Re:Wireless sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The 8pm-can''t-watch-TV problem is in the core, not the last mile. This is obvious to anyone because some sites are fast and others are slow, but it would also be obvious to you if you'd been following along the politics, starting with L3/Cogent depeering, or if you know someone at an ISP since they will talk about these politics every evening.

    29. Re:Wireless sucks by Nexus7 · · Score: 1

      Found that out years ago. Got my HDHomerun box, put it on the wi-fi, and no worky. The "54 Mb/s" wi-fi couldn't do 12 Mb/s (or whatever 1080p over-the-air channel puts out) sustained through a wall.

    30. Re:Wireless sucks by Russ1642 · · Score: 1

      Never use 'always' when making predictions. You just end up sounding like a retard.

    31. Re:Wireless sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      over the internet the signal can be compressed a fair bit more than over the air 1080p.

    32. Re:Wireless sucks by Builder · · Score: 2

      I'm not sure I'd use Ivory Coast as a good example - hop over to Benin or Togo to see what can be done in the region - excellent coverage, reasonable rates and good throughput on the data plans.

    33. Re:Wireless sucks by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      I don't disagree with you, but I don't think that's the whole story. I don't stream because it sucks so bad. IMHO, streaming needs at least an order of magnitude better quality service than currently exists, along with an entirely different approach to buffering / downloading. The current streaming approach is an attempt to prevent copies from existing on your hardware, which is entirely pointless anyways. In the worst case, less than $100 worth of hardware and you can capture anything out there today, so let's worry about the quality and make it usable before worrying about anyone stealing content. People that are happy with today's streaming quality don't care if they view video-taped movies. If streaming was easy and cheap enough, no one would bother.

      Current issues with streaming:

      • Stuttering, even on 20Mbps download capacity - at peak times, it doesn't matter
      • Compression artifacts - at peak times this gets worse
      • General low quality video even at low use times - due to amount of compression used

      In general, why have a 1080P screen if you're going to display a 1Mbps stream which at best has analog SD resolution?

      BTW, there is a solution to this, but no one has signed up for it yet, and it's not even new nor patentable at this point.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    34. Re:Wireless sucks by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      it'd be 2Mbps, at best, high latency, etc, makes video almost unwatchable for me. Then again, I'm not there, and I have seen much better. "In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king" goes the saying, and when you have nothing, 2Mbps would be awesome - it's certainly better than the 300 baud modems everyone started with (or the even worse 100 baud...)

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    35. Re:Wireless sucks by jonbryce · · Score: 1

      My local 3G mast is connected to the same street cabinet as my ADSL connection. The speed on both is about the same.

    36. Re:Wireless sucks by operagost · · Score: 1

      I've tried to stick to wireless, but signal strength is a problem because of the architecture: a 2.5 story stone Colonial mated to a modern 1 story frame addition. I currently have 7 year old Motorola G boxes linked with WDS at opposite ends of the addition. The G signal on the second floor is weak, already at half the G bandwidth due to the WDS, and it will probably be unusable in the attic once we convert that room to an office. I'm not fond of running CAT6 everywhere, but I am in the process of running a CAT6 "backbone" between the two sections with N APs on each end. This should bring the wireless bandwidth from a theoretical 23 Mbps to 288 Mbps (or 600, if I were to upgrade my laptop to a 5GHz card).

      I almost hate to retire these Motorola units; they are incredibly reliable and secure compared to the Linksys and Netgears of their time. I probably should have bought two new Motorolas to replace them, but Motorola had vacated the WiFi market a few years ago and I didn't know they'd reentered it before I bought the Netgears. No guarantee the all-new stuff is as solid as the old, regardless.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    37. Re: Wireless sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can use FaceTime to manage the group of hidden sewing soccer balls!

    38. Re:Wireless sucks by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      The gp meant that each computer on a wired network has a fully switched connection to each other without bandwidth interference. On wireless in any form, you *also* have to deal with interference, not just overall bandwidth availability.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    39. Re:Wireless sucks by MikeBabcock · · Score: 1

      Security, privacy and reliability to name three reasons to stick with wires.

      --
      - Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
    40. Re:Wireless sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, I'll bet you steal music, too.

    41. Re:Wireless sucks by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      The problem with the internet services is that the do compress it a fair bit more. I average 12-16 Mbps OTA, the best internet HD stream I've seen is 3Mbps. U-verse is around 6-7 Mbps. Significantly better than the internet services, but still not great.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    42. Re:Wireless sucks by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      To be completely fair - and based on a recent trip to Vegas and San Francisco I'm not feeling especially charitable toward Verizon - none of those telecoms are trying to deploy across anything like the total territory of the US. It's not just population density, it's the sheer size of the country - and we expect no roaming fees.

    43. Re:Wireless sucks by xQx · · Score: 1

      Correct. My bad, thank you.

    44. Re:Wireless sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I had thought the parent post got his bits and bytes mixed up, but i wasn't going to point it out because it helped my case. Latency is still my issue i don't mind waiting an extra 5 minutes for a torrent, but gaming on wireless is almost impossible.

    45. Re:Wireless sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      given proper tech compression should only hold you up a little bit at the start after that, in theory it should be buffered and in watching a video (unless you want to skip ahead) you shouldn't notice (except that your download total for the month would be a lot smaller).

    46. Re:Wireless sucks by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

      Went on safari in Kenya and Tanzania last year. I had cell signal everywhere and 3G almost everywhere.

      Try the signal away from the tourist hotspots. I was working in Tanzania last year, near the Mozambique border, and while I could generally get a voice connection, data was much more spotty. Which was awkward when the site's satellite dish broke down.

      --
      Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  2. since you're there anyway... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    all the houses need power anyway... as my grandfather said if you're riding the hog anyway you may as well ride it to work.

    1. Re:since you're there anyway... by noh8rz10 · · Score: 1

      as my grandfather said if you're riding the hog anyway you may as well ride it to work.

      LOLWUT?

    2. Re:since you're there anyway... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Power need not come from a centralized distribution platform. Quite the funny saying, though.

    3. Re:since you're there anyway... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That may be the case, since wireless power will never happen. Even though there was a time when it would have happened if it hadn't been for some unfortunate events, people will choose being homeless and living in filth to have a wireless phone before figuring out how to live in homes in communities that implement systems for water, waste and electricity.

      Next to me, right now as I type, I'm watching a dead tired homeless guy that hasn't showered or changed clothes in at least a year or two, plug in his iPod at a Starbucks in Silicon Valley.

    4. Re:since you're there anyway... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I made the mistake of calling it an iPod when I meant to say iPhone; probably because of all this iStuff not being my cup of tea. But he does have good taste, much better than mine, according to Apple fans.

    5. Re:since you're there anyway... by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Maybe that's all he has left over from his "life"? Ya know, the one he had before the economy was run into the ground...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    6. Re:since you're there anyway... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How much money does it cost per month to make one of those operational; assuming it's voice only, text and data plans being out of the question? It's all about priorities, ya know; as it was in the parent post.

    7. Re:since you're there anyway... by Eunuchswear · · Score: 2

      hat may be the case, since wireless power will never happen

      Tell that to the people using solar power.

      No wires between the sun and the panels.

      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
    8. Re:since you're there anyway... by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Yet wires between panels and equipment using the electricity. Hmm?

    9. Re:since you're there anyway... by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1

      Yes, and tiny little wires inside the cellphone.

      But the point is it is possible to have electricty without wires coming in to your house from some central power generation facility.

      So there may be no hog to ride.

      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
    10. Re:since you're there anyway... by TWiTfan · · Score: 1

      Now we just need to find a way to get the $20,000 for solar panel installation to each of these dirt poor people, and then the problem is solved.

      --
      The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
    11. Re:since you're there anyway... by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1

      Now we just need to find a way to get the $20,000 for solar panel installation to each of these dirt poor people, and then the problem is solved.

      'cos one tiny little solar panel costs $20k

      Hint - a solar panel in an African village wouldn't be for running a airconditioner.

      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
    12. Re:since you're there anyway... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wireless power over long distances!!1!
        Maybe carbon neural distributed power generation systems will get their true mass markets in Africa, village by village and community by community. Piggy-bagging network access inside the community might be a good idea at permanent settlements in stable environments.

    13. Re:since you're there anyway... by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Sure. You can just sit on a practice bike hooked up to electric generator and start pedaling. Advantages over solar include among other things power on demand rather than no power when its actually needed. Energy supply vector is the food, which is indeed wireless.

      You could also utilize sun through simply using a diesel generator, or countless other means. In fact ALL energy is originally wireless, as it originates from the sun.

      But to actually use it, you need wires.

    14. Re:since you're there anyway... by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1

      But to actually use it, you need wires.

      Maybe you should go back and start reading this conversation from the beginning.

      Also. remember the context. We're talking about network connectivity in Africa.

      The original contention, by an AC was that since you need wires to get the electricty to the point of use you could use wires to get the internet connecivity.

      The second AC chimed in saying "and wireless power ain't going to happen". (Heading off the Tesla nuts at the pass).

      I pointed out that solar power could be seen as wireless, i.e. someone could have solar electricty without being hooked up to the power grid. Don't forget the context - Africa, remember?

      You, Lukyo, made a totaly pointless contribution, claiming that there was a wire between the solar panel and the point of use.

      I pointed out that there is also a wire between the antenna of a wireless phone and the radio, but that is irellevant when we're talking about riding hogs to work.

      And you chime back in with more irellevant nonsense about exercise bikes (just the thing after a long day in the field) and diesel generators.

      Which still doesn't explain how you ride a hog to work when you have no hog.

      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
    15. Re:since you're there anyway... by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      So let's get back to the point then. Are you saying that basic infrastructure such as power is fine as long as it works only during the day when it's sunny?

      Reality is, it's not. It would certainly prove to be an improvement over status quo in many places in Africa, but it's a far cry from being something that could replace the wired infrastructure that we have in the West today.

      And the entire argument in this case is that wireless is somehow about "leapfrogging over" wired network, rather then attempting to dodge the massive cost of having proper infrastructure in place by installing something that possibly, maybe could serve as a bare minimum by Western standards.

    16. Re:since you're there anyway... by catprog · · Score: 1
      --
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  3. That's cool and everything, but... by 0m3gaMan · · Score: 1

    ...shouldn't they focus on law and order first?

    1. Re:That's cool and everything, but... by demonlapin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes. But that's somewhat orthogonal to the discussion, in the sense that Africa really has a lot of unresolved issues that won't go away until a lot of people die. Europe went out and conquered the world from 1500-1900, and then immolated itself in two huge wars in the twentieth century that fundamentally came down to questions of governance. Africa has to have some of those kind of wars, where everyone loses, before its people will accept suboptimal solutions.

    2. Re:That's cool and everything, but... by grcumb · · Score: 2

      ...shouldn't they focus on law and order first?

      Sure, fine, but good communication and coordination are necessary elements of law and order, from developing a cultural intolerance for corruption right down to the cop on his beat and emergency numbers.

      The moral of the story is, nothing comes 'first' before communications technology, because everything you do benefits from better comms capability, whether it's knowing the market price of the grain you grow, or finding job opportunities in your city, or organising a community protest, or just using plain old wikipedia to supplement your need for basic facts.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    3. Re:That's cool and everything, but... by bmajik · · Score: 2

      Actually, do you know which country in Africa has the cheapest cell phone providers?

      Somalia.

      (ref: http://www.economist.com/node/5328015)

      Somalia fascinates me from a free-society perspective. Usually Somalia is the punchline of some attempt to troll a libertarian, but if you actually look at what's happening there, it's quite fascinating.

      This paper is one of my favorites. Take a look, you may be surprised:

      http://www.peterleeson.com/Better_Off_Stateless.pdf

      --
      My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
    4. Re: That's cool and everything, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some funny interesting points in there indeed. Like this line "Somaliaâ(TM)s improved development belongs to its economy, which has been allowed to grow in the absence of government predation."

    5. Re:That's cool and everything, but... by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      The main problem is that Africa did have those wars. It was just the wars of their colonial powers...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    6. Re: That's cool and everything, but... by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      The absence of taxes is great, as long as you don't expect any of the amenities these taxes pay for.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    7. Re: That's cool and everything, but... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      It self organised quite well without government.

      The pirates have even formed their own inventment organisations to fund the cost of launching an attack ship and spread the risk in case it fails to capture any hostages.

    8. Re:That's cool and everything, but... by lxs · · Score: 1

      but if you actually look at what's happening there, it's quite fascinating.

      It's so fascinating that Somalian pirates surrendering to European navy beg to be sent to jail over here. They prefer being in prison in Europe to living free in their libertarian paradise.

    9. Re:That's cool and everything, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Without forgetting the wars currently raging

    10. Re:That's cool and everything, but... by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      You won't get any wireless infrastructure without law and order first, without it turning into a spotty service only good in big towns (sort of like how it is in the US). And you wont' get wireless infrastructure being usable without first getting electricity infrastructure up first (or are we going to have the entire country ramp up use of generators and pollution just so they can check their email?).

    11. Re:That's cool and everything, but... by LostMonk · · Score: 1

      Stable and dependable communication really helps establishing law and order.

    12. Re: That's cool and everything, but... by therealkevinkretz · · Score: 1

      Anarchy is not a "libertarian paradise".

    13. Re:That's cool and everything, but... by Dr+Max · · Score: 1

      the guys that build this http://www.gizmag.com/solara-uav-atmospheric-satellite/28886/ reckon it could run a cell phone network "Additionally, Titan points out that one of the aircraft could provide cell phone coverage for an area of over 6,500 square miles (16,800 sq km), offering the reach of over 100 ground-based towers.". Sure it's not going to be able to handle a new york level load, but there are plenty of spots in africa where only a couple of hundred people live in an area that big.

      --
      Rocket Surgeon.
    14. Re:That's cool and everything, but... by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1

      So, if you're not forgetting them you know where they are, right?

      How many African countries currently have serious unrest, how many don't?

      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
    15. Re:That's cool and everything, but... by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1

      Actually, do you know which country in Africa has the cheapest cell phone providers?

      Somalia.

      That dates from 2005, I mean the article ends:

      And then there is Somalia itself. From a distance it looks like a free-market nirvana after The Economist's heart; but closer up it better resembles an armed oligarchy, capable of taking anything it wants at the point of a gun—even a Nokia handset.

      Seriously? A Nokia handset?

      So, how is the great Somalian cellphone revoultion doing today?

      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
    16. Re:That's cool and everything, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The easiest way to make people want law and order is to give them enough nice things that they want protected. It's that "nothing to lose" thing that creates lawless societies. To have nice things, you need infrastructure. There's no use for a phone without a network. There's no use for a car without roads.

    17. Re:That's cool and everything, but... by msauve · · Score: 1

      Thanks for confirming the OP: "Usually Somalia is the punchline of some attempt to troll a libertarian"

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    18. Re:That's cool and everything, but... by chill · · Score: 1

      Pissed that now they're all going to end up with Windows Mobile.

      --
      Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
    19. Re:That's cool and everything, but... by afidel · · Score: 1

      Do you think a couple hundred people with African GDP will be able to pay access rates high enough to justify that kind of investment? Of course not, which is the same reason you don't see coast to coast 4G coverage except along interstate routes, there's not a high enough population density to justify the infrastructure investment.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    20. Re:That's cool and everything, but... by TWiTfan · · Score: 1

      Usually Somalia is the punchline of some attempt to troll a libertarian, but if you actually look at what's happening there, it's quite fascinating.

      I imagine it's somewhat less fascinating when you have to live there. But if you truly want to experience the libertarian dream, it's definitely the place to be. If you're interested, I hear that you can buy a house there pretty cheap--if you can defend it from the gangs and keep it, that is. You may want to bring an arsenal and private army with you when you go. But, on the upside, no taxes!

      --
      The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
    21. Re:That's cool and everything, but... by afidel · · Score: 1

      Look at average life expectancy, Somalia is in the bottom 10 while the top 27 are all socialist democracies (ok Qatar and Kuwait are socialist monarchies). I think I'll take the evil socialism over a free-society.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    22. Re: That's cool and everything, but... by TWiTfan · · Score: 1

      The pirates have even formed their own inventment organisations

      They'll also cut your throat and rape your wife to death if they sense for even a second that you have anything they want. Truly a libertarian paradise!

      --
      The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
    23. Re: That's cool and everything, but... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      In accordance with the libertarian paradise, you can always pay some thugs of your own to serve as bodyguards.

    24. Re:That's cool and everything, but... by Dr+Max · · Score: 1

      $10 a month for 500 people is $60 000 a year, with a 5 year life that's $360 000 from just the locals. I don't know how much these will cost or how much is reusable after 5 years but the whole scheme doesn't seem impossible, especially with a bit of help from the government and tourism industry.

      --
      Rocket Surgeon.
    25. Re:That's cool and everything, but... by Dr+Max · · Score: 1

      $300 000*. I'm going to bed.

      --
      Rocket Surgeon.
    26. Re:That's cool and everything, but... by afidel · · Score: 1

      GNI per capita in sub-saharan Africa is $2,019 as of June 2011, do you really think they're going to on average spend 17% of their income on phone service?

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    27. Re:That's cool and everything, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tribe-first attitude is the preventive factor for creating such scenarios of total war. The same attitude generates constantly little wars, ironically. The same issue of tribes is apparent in Pakistan and Afghanistan, for example. Total wars and even the 100 year-type of wars require nation states, kingdoms and of course powerful religious organizations, which nobody expects.

    28. Re:That's cool and everything, but... by operagost · · Score: 1

      TWITfan... appropriate. Your deliberate ignorance and willingness to use an obvious straw man are notable.

      You are quite ignorant of the actual situation. What you have in Somalia is a system of local governments with two rather weak regional ones. Since the transitional government's elections last year, it's not so much of an anarchy anymore. And it wasn't in a constant state of war, regardless. The safety and security of a city was based on the stability of its local government-- which in most of the country, is surprisingly good.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    29. Re:That's cool and everything, but... by operagost · · Score: 1

      Your sig is rather contrary to your actual beliefs.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    30. Re: That's cool and everything, but... by Pseudonym+Authority · · Score: 1

      True, pure anarchy is much better.

    31. Re: That's cool and everything, but... by TWiTfan · · Score: 1

      Good point. A true libertarian would say it's your own fault for not being rich enough to afford a private army to protect you.

      --
      The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
    32. Re:That's cool and everything, but... by TWiTfan · · Score: 1

      Why are you wasting time posting responses here, then? Shouldn't you be packing your bags? I mean, here's the chance to finally live out your libertarian dreams, and all you can do about it is post on Slashdot? Go east, young man!

      --
      The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
    33. Re:That's cool and everything, but... by afidel · · Score: 1

      Socialism and tyranny are orthogonal.

      --
      There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
    34. Re:That's cool and everything, but... by Dr+Max · · Score: 1

      It still doesn’t seem impossible. If i was in that situation i would defiantly still be considering it. I don't know what the costs of this system would end up being, but it still seems feasible, maybe lowering the cost to $5 per month.

      --
      Rocket Surgeon.
    35. Re:That's cool and everything, but... by Dr+Max · · Score: 1

      5.9% is $120 in $2019

      --
      Rocket Surgeon.
    36. Re: That's cool and everything, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If your not rich enough to afford protection then you probably don't have much that needs protection.

    37. Re:That's cool and everything, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And one of those unresolved issues is the lack of civilized values. We see it every day in the stream of fraud, scams, and theft issuing daily from Africa, over the net. Many companies refuse to send international shipments to Africa because of the widespread fraud, so what happens- do they take the hint and straighten up? No- they send out even more fraud to recruit local "mules" to ship goods bought for by stolen credit cards and stolen money.

      I seriously wonder how much of Africa's bandwidth is dedicated to 419 scams, and the river of junk email in support of scams.

      So, when we hear about how so much of Africa is mired in poverty, starvation, corruption- it comes as no surprise. In order to have a civilized society, you first have to have civilized values- or at least a culture that promotes those values more than it does self-destructive ones. All the technological goodies are worthless or even counter-productive, unless you have someone wanting to use them in a positive manner.

    38. Re:That's cool and everything, but... by demonlapin · · Score: 1

      Like I said, Africa needs to have some serious wars. Either they will achieve a closer alignment between tribal groups and territory, or they will work out some kind of multi-ethnic state (examples would be Roman or Austro-Hungarian Empires) with a lot of local autonomy. Under the current system, the incentives are badly aligned.

  4. Leapfrog implies better by silas_moeckel · · Score: 1

    Wireless gets them some access which is better than nothing but not even close to fiber. Your not going to magic around the spectrum issues .

    --
    No sir I dont like it.
    1. Re:Leapfrog implies better by grcumb · · Score: 2

      Wireless gets them some access which is better than nothing but not even close to fiber. Your not going to magic around the spectrum issues .

      Yep, it would be much more accurate to say they're leapfrogging past copper - which is a Good Thing. But fibre isn't optional, not even with O3B's MEO satellites in the picture. If you look at the submarine cable map, you can pretty much see at a glance which countries are more aggressive about internet and technology in general, and which ones are being left behind. Fibre is going to be needed in most urban areas, even if it doesn't ultimately consist of FTTH.

      --
      Crumb's Corollary: Never bring a knife to a bun fight.
    2. Re:Leapfrog implies better by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      The old non adsl 'donated/charity' exchanges, copper quality and distance can make any useful wireless tech a good option.
      Over time, copper or optical solutions can be expanded.
      The good aspect of wireless is the ability of 'any' new firm to enter the market, rather that have to get/rent hardware at an exchange.
      Solar, line of sight and emerging wireless networking math can offer good basic service to many in cities or regional areas.
      Over time ping and user count will see the need for a build out of optical.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    3. Re:Leapfrog implies better by mjwx · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Wireless gets them some access which is better than nothing but not even close to fiber. Your not going to magic around the spectrum issues .

      This.

      But the biggest issue in Africa is not spectrum (yet) it's copper theft.

      This is pretty much the only reason wireless is better than wired. There are very few components worth stealing.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    4. Re:Leapfrog implies better by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      And the ones that are can easily be locked away and guarded.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    5. Re:Leapfrog implies better by petermgreen · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If you look at the submarine cable map [submarinecablemap.com], you can pretty much see at a glance which countries are more aggressive about internet and technology in general

      Kind of interesting.

      If you look at the US there are lots of submarine cables but most of them are heading out across the ocean to europe and asia with a few links heading up along the coast to alaska and south/central america. If you look at europe you see the occasional coast hugging submarine cable but most of the submarine cables are either crossing a local body of water (e.g. english channel, mediteranian sea, north sea, baltic sea ) or heading off towards America or africa/asia. Australasia is a similar picture, there are submarine cables sure but they are either connecting islands or heading off out the area. I interpret this to mean that the overland infrastructure is good enough and the countries trust their neighbours enough that submarine cables are only used when there is a good technical reason for using them.

      On the other hand if you look at The middle east, africa, south and east asia and south america you see the map is dominated by cables hugging the coast with lots of landing points (virtually every non-landlocked country is hooked up to at least one of the coast hugging cables). I interpret this to mean that either the overland infrastructure in those areas sucks and/or the countries don't trust their neighbours.

      In a couple of places (libya, angola, south africa) I even see cables that only land in one country but hug the coast landing repeatedly. This really suggests that the conditions for building overland infrastructure in those places must suck.

      I also notice that a lot of the so called "undersea cables" from europe to asia cut across land in Egypt to get from the Mediterranean sea to the gulf of Suez. Could be nasty if egypt stops being friendly with the west.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    6. Re:Leapfrog implies better by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      The best thing for Africa is to NOT get them hooked on stupid things like youtube or streaming video on demand. 28.8 modem is good enough to get email and news and basic web service.

    7. Re:Leapfrog implies better by msauve · · Score: 1

      You obviously don't trade email with the same people I do. You know, the ones who insist on using HTML, MIME and BASE64 encoding, jpegs in their .sigs, never trim quotes because due to their top posting habits they never see them, etc., turning a simple email into a 30KB missive.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    8. Re:Leapfrog implies better by Urkki · · Score: 1

      Wireless gets them some access which is better than nothing but not even close to fiber. Your not going to magic around the spectrum issues .

      Fiber has the problem of not running on batteries (at least not cheaply). Ensuring uninterrupted power supply to a bunch of base stations serving thousands of people is much easier, than ensuring uninterrupted power supply all the way to those thousands of people (who, at this day and age, will have a laptop or a tablet with battery, and might have some extra charging solution for it too).

      Note: I'm talking about brief power outages and brownouts, not total long term blackouts.

    9. Re:Leapfrog implies better by sourcerror · · Score: 1

      There's no point to steal fiberglass either as it's very hard to recycle.

    10. Re:Leapfrog implies better by ixs · · Score: 1

      Good idea, unfortunately useless in practice.

      While your experienced copper thief knows about the dangers of stealing power transmission equipment and knows that fiber is useless to a scrapyard there are enough people who do not know.

      I do have a bunch of friends living around Johannesburg on a farm who only have wireless internet access as there's always someone who steals the copper cables for the phones.

      And they have regular power outages because an idiot just fried himself stealing live wires from a transformator. Sure, one down but how does the saying go? A new idiot is born every day.

      And if you have two idiots born on the same day, one will steal live transmission wires and fry himself and another one will steal the fiberglass and be disappointed at the scrapyard. Your internet is down either way at that point...

    11. Re:Leapfrog implies better by silas_moeckel · · Score: 1

      Run fiber on batteries all the time. Your average refrigerator on telephone pole has 24 hours of batteries. A lot of Africa needs a ton of infrastructure something China is happy to give them.

      --
      No sir I dont like it.
  5. Something new? by Phroggy · · Score: 1

    Didn't we know this ten years ago? How is this news?

    --
    $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
    $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
    1. Re:Something new? by DavidClarkeHR · · Score: 1

      Didn't we know this ten years ago? How is this news?

      It's not NEW news. Nothing out of africa is, really. We just wait until there is something interesting to report on, and ... BAM. "News" for the news-hungry masses.

      --
      - Nec Impar Pluribus, or so I'm told.
    2. Re:Something new? by pthisis · · Score: 1

      Seriously. Even in 1999 there were stories about how cell reception would leapfrog copper wire not just in Africa but in South America (where I was living, and it happened in a total no-brainer). There might as well be a story saying that Lagos won't see a huge Blu-Ray rental infrastructure built out.

      --
      rage, rage against the dying of the light
    3. Re:Something new? by noh8rz10 · · Score: 1

      Seriously. Even in 1999 there were stories about how cell reception would leapfrog copper wire not just in Africa but in South America (where I was living, and it happened in a total no-brainer). There might as well be a story saying that Lagos won't see a huge Blu-Ray rental infrastructure built out.

      redbox ftw!

  6. Missing wires by Tekoneiric · · Score: 4, Informative

    They are leapfrogging wired because every time they lay down wires it gets stolen and sold on the black market. The news was talking about that years ago. It's forcing them to use wireless.

    --
    *It's not what you can do for the Dark Side but what the Dark Side can do for you!*
    1. Re:Missing wires by aXis100 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I had a mate who had a few kilometers of fibre cable deployed outside of their refinery area in africa. Unsurprisingly, some enterprising bugger would come along and dig it up, hack into it only to discover it wasn't copper. That in itself wouldnt be too bad - I mean it's not the end of the world to pull a bit of slack and splice the ends together.

      Unfortunately the same would-be copper thief would then travel along the cable a few more metres and try again... and again. Just in case it changed you know?

    2. Re:Missing wires by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      We have people in the US ripping up three phase electrical cabling from the outside of buildings. You want to talk about having a set of balls! These guys know no fear when it comes to ripping off solid copper. I'm pretty sure the guys in Africa have no problem pulling electrical wiring leading up to the towers too.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    3. Re:Missing wires by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I heard about people doing this kind of stuff over a hundred years ago, mostly as part of a story on the emergence of paying attention to detail in detective work, and how analysis of metal fragments on clothes was used to catch people pinching copper from telegraph poles.

      It's kinda annoying people still feel the need to ruin infrastructure by ripping it up just to get through to the next day. Such people should either find more worthy employment of if there really is none around, lay down and die and stop ruining things for the rest of society.

    4. Re:Missing wires by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not sure which group has more balls. In the U.S. it's usually drug addicts. In Africa it's just jobless people trying to afford beer and grub (and, if they're feeling generous, feed their families). Crack and methamphetamine can make you pretty fearless. On the other hand, parts of Africa have machine gun wielding bandits who place no value on human life, which means just walking around requires a certain fearlessness and penchant for risk taking.

    5. Re:Missing wires by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The term "leapfrog" suggests jumping over a older technology to go to something better, which makes this sound better, that is wrong, wired is always going to be better then a wireless connection. Someone needs to change the subject line.

    6. Re:Missing wires by MadX · · Score: 2

      I can confirm. I have seen where cables were laid, and while they are busy trying to terminate - 2 kilometers down the road, they are busy digging it up. So at the end of the day, despite wireless being slow, it still becomes the data delivery method of choice. Also, there is a single entity that realy "owns" the majority of cables (Telkom), and they are resisting pressure to reduce pricing.

      So the private firms use wireless, because it frees them from having to rely on a state owned enterprise that controls all hardwired connections outside of your building(s).

    7. Re:Missing wires by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I call BS on this, most High voltage and 3-phase cabling is Aluminum, which is worth a lot less than copper.

  7. In other news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In other news Africa is set to become the next world super power.

    [ the cluelessness of some people is amazing ]

  8. the continent is huge by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

    Yes, it is...

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    1. Re:the continent is huge by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which explains what? We're in real trouble when we try to provide connectivity for Eurasia.

  9. Re: You're sharing bandwidth. by Chas · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Not necessarily.

    You're sharing SPECTRUM with everyone and their brother. And that's actually even worse.

    And building capacity for wireless is non-trivial as well. It's not just a matter of putting up another access point or uplink.

    Example: GenCon.

    Downtown Indianapolis has a plethora of connection options. Wired, wireless, cellular, etc.

    On a Friday evening it just doesn't matter. Getting online via ANY means is a joke. You're better off with IP over smoke signal. As 50,000 people (over twice the population of the city I live in and an increase in Indy's total population to the tune of about 5-6%) in the area blitz the available spectrum for wifi and cellular, while wired connections in the hotels are drowned by rooms filled to capacity and everyone sporting a laptop/tablet/etc. And it's a static population increase for those 4-5 days.

    Granted, in much of Africa, the population density is NOWHERE near that high. But you also have the same problems you would laying out a "universal" internet or power grid in the US. You have densely populated areas that are difficult and expensive to build capacity into. And you have very sparsely populated areas where people building the capacity likely will never see a return on investment. And the latter actually outnumbers the former by an order of magnitude or more. And Africa is the same thing, but with over 3x the landmass and population.

    If something like this was going to be as simple as they're talking about, it'd have been done already.

    --


    Chas - The one, the only.
    THANK GOD!!!
  10. You Still Need Wireless by Ironlenny · · Score: 1

    Low orbit satellites are not going to carry a continent's worth of network traffic. On top of that you still need backhaul at your ground stations. All those cell towers, they need something for backhaul. Microwave repeaters are only going to carry you so far. On top of that fiber simply has the highest available and future bandwidth with the lowest latency of any available technology. Sure wireless may dominate the immediate future of Africa, but eventually they'll exceed it's limits and move to a wired infrastructure.

    --
    There is a system for subverting the system and you should use that system!
  11. South America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They said this about South American counrties over 10 years ago--that they aren't saddled with the developed world's copper infrastructure (as in North America, Europe, Japan, etc), and would innovate with wireless more thoroughly.Turns out the developed world can use wireless, too, as well as their wired infrastructure, to press forward.

  12. Who's paying Africa internet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I hope the Africain put down all the money - I'm not going to fund when my home internet is still pathetic at 1.5Mbps on a good day

    1. Re:Who's paying Africa internet? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      15 years ago, the thought of 1.5 Mbps to your home would have made you cream your jeans.

    2. Re:Who's paying Africa internet? by basecastula+ · · Score: 1

      15 years ago, the thought of 1.5 Mbps to your home would have made you cream your jeans.

      Get off my lawn!

    3. Re:Who's paying Africa internet? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      15 years ago, the thought of 1.5 Mbps to your home would have made you cream your jeans.

      And today, it's still all I've got because I live in bumfuck merica.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  13. No shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Without a proper infrastructure, mobile internet was always going to be the only real option for Africans for the foreseeable future.

    IMO OLPC (One Laptop Per Child) messed up a bit by concentrating on notebooks. If you want to provide educational material and a way to communicate, a generic cheap tablet with a custom OS and made-to-measure software is the best way forward. OLPC don't even have to supply the hardware.

    1. Re:No shit by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1

      Please show me the generic cheap tablets that were available when OLPC started (2005).

      "Let them use Nokia 770's".

      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
    2. Re:No shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since they developed and mass-produced their own custom hardware (in 2005), they could have just as easily gone for a tablet form factor. FWIW yes I was advocating a tablet OLPC back in 2005.

      Now mass-production and tech advances have made (generic cheap) tablets affordable, it ought to be a complete no-brainer for OLPC to focus on tablets and smartphones now.

  14. OLD news by chromaexcursion · · Score: 3, Interesting

    In the late 90's several African countries were going cellular only, outside of major cities.
    This article is 15 years out of date.

    One of my company's clients at the time was the Republic of the Congo.
    Nothing like first hand knowledge.

    1. Re:OLD news by x_IamSpartacus_x · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You're absolutely right. I live in Mozambique and people in the DEEP bush (read: rural areas) who live in houses made of mud or grass have cell phones are able to do simple banking even on old candy bar phones. Here in the capitol of Maputo, in the last year, smart phone and tablet use has exploded. Mozambique has 3 cell networks that offer 3G connectivity and one is talking up their 4G transition for next year. I think the intuition of the touch screen is being proven here as people who were raised without running water or power are able to pick up and use a smartphone while the same person struggles to a comical degree trying to understand and use with any semblance of efficacy a laptop or desktop PC.

      Oh... Mozambique is the 3rd least developed country IN THE WORLD according to the UNDP
      So yeah, this Les Cotrell is just a guy wanting to sound smart by explaining things about Africa to people who know nothing about Africa. This happened long ago.

    2. Re:OLD news by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      What do those remote phones connect to? They have to have a wired infrastructure out to the access points. We can't even get good mobile service in rural US.

    3. Re:OLD news by Eunuchswear · · Score: 2

      What do those remote phones connect to? They have to have a wired infrastructure out to the access points. We can't even get good mobile service in rural US.

      Nope, cell towers are often (almost always?) hooked up with microwave links,

      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
    4. Re:OLD news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sierra Leone was going wireless, even before cellular was widely available in the first world. Think back to the mid-1980s. How many people had cellphones then?

      Back then, a friend of mine worked on a project whose purpose was to build a wireless network connecting fixed phones, on the assumption that there would be one or two phones per village. The basic architecture was (what we nowadays would call) peer-to-peer, with the signal being relayed between neighbouring phones, whether or not the relaying phones were in use themselves at the time. The phones themselves were powered by batteries recharged by solar panels.

      The whole thing worked, reasonably well as I understand it. But then, of course, the late 90s happened - cellphones suddenly became ubiquitous and dirt cheap, and nobody was interested in an architecture that combined the weaknesses and limitations of both fixed-line and cellular phones.

    5. Re:OLD news by Shatrat · · Score: 1

      Some towers can be microwave links, but those links are going to have to home back to another tower that is fiber or copper fed. Even then you are hurting your ability to run LTE base stations at those microwave towers.

      --
      09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
    6. Re:OLD news by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1

      Some towers can be microwave links,

      Lots of cellphone towers have microwave links for backhaul (in 2009 it was 48% worldwide, a hell of a lot more than that in Africa for all the well known reasons).

      . but those links are going to have to home back to another tower that is fiber or copper fed.

      Well yes, eventually, but one fibre or copper fed tower can provive backhaul for a bunch of towers connected by microwaves, and microwave connected towers can be connected to other microwave connected towers.

      Even then you are hurting your ability to run LTE base stations at those microwave towers.

      LTE?

      Wait untill 3G is working.

      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
    7. Re:OLD news by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      The backhaul also needs power, so at the very least you need copper power wires (or some dirty solution like using a generator and an old guy who pours in more diesel every day).

    8. Re:OLD news by chromaexcursion · · Score: 1

      You might be surprised at how many cell sites in North America rely on someone filling the tank periodically.
      On the other hand.
      The truly off the grid sites in the tropics are regularly powered by solar. Though there's likely an emergency diesel hiding somewhere. Just in case.
      There are a lot of places where solar is the most economical solution.

  15. Doesn't know what he's talking about... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, its obvious that this guy isn't a cellular engineer, nor is he a satcom engineer. A huge contingent of the 2G and 3G base stations in Africa are connected via satellite. Satellite spectrum is not only expensive (VERY, VERY expensive) but it is scarcely available in that footprint. As for using LEO satellites, he apparently has no idea how LEO works. The only viable "high bandwidth" (low bandwidth by many cable-modem users opinion) option would be the constellation that O2B is planning. They only have one bird in orbit though. Beyond that, the earthstation costs for an O2B installation are in excess of $1M USD just for the tracking antennas, let alone the SSPAs, modems, etc. I just love it when people talk out their asses.

  16. There was a slight glitch by paiute · · Score: 1

    Africa was indeed poised to leapfrog wired networks, but then they had to eat the frog.

    --
    If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
  17. Re:I guess they don't take any history classes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    I'm glad that the amount you care is above minimum (I believe the phrase you are too ignorant to quote is "coundn't care less"). To address your ignorance further:
    * The commercials for African charities are not representative of an entire fucking continent.
    * Telegraph came before radio (which was initially called "wireless telegraph") and what the hell does itunes have to do with wireless vs wired?

    Are you 10 years old? What idiot modded you up?

  18. Did Africans invent or build any of this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thought not...

    1. Re:Did Africans invent or build any of this? by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1

      Did you?

      Thought not.

      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
    2. Re:Did Africans invent or build any of this? by whydavid · · Score: 1

      I guess they didn't have time to get around to inventing wireless communications technology in between being the birthplace of civilization and being invaded and exploited by foreign powers. Shame on them, really.

    3. Re:Did Africans invent or build any of this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I dunno, I'm pretty sure I invented being awesome. That's -kind- of the same thing, right?

  19. That's not main NSA concern by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Battle is going how to spy on Africa and countries that want invest there. Whether Africa has good Internet or not relevant to US sponsored agencies. It's about the money and natural resources.

  20. Re: You're sharing bandwidth. by Darinbob · · Score: 1

    Right, there's no profit to providing the internet to rural areas therefore no one will do it. We only got phone and electricity service to everyone in the US through strong incentives. I suspect it'll be like early days of mobile; the big cities will have it and no one else.

    Still I think getting electricity strung out first will be much more important than some fluff like wireless internet.

  21. Your url sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    1. Re:Your url sucks by The+Archon+V2.0 · · Score: 1

      It's what happens when you copy a URL off a Google result page without visiting it - Google search results point at a tracking URL that then points you at the real thing. If you want the real URL, you need to click the link and copy the result out of the address bar.

      The actual URL is http://www.thetreeofliberty.com/vb/showthread.php?t=142839

  22. Re: You're sharing bandwidth. by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1

    Right, there's no profit to providing the internet to rural areas therefore no one will do it.

    But there is profit providing telephone services.

    And these days whenever someone hooks up a cell tower the internet comes more or less by accident.

    --
    Watch this Heartland Institute video
  23. Good ole bandwidth problem by Taco+Cowboy · · Score: 2

    Downtown Indianapolis has a plethora of connection options. Wired, wireless, cellular, etc.

    On a Friday evening it just doesn't matter. Getting online via ANY means is a joke. You're better off with IP over smoke signal. As 50,000 people (over twice the population of the city I live in and an increase in Indy's total population to the tune of about 5-6%) in the area blitz the available spectrum for wifi and cellular, while wired connections in the hotels are drowned by rooms filled to capacity and everyone sporting a laptop/tablet/etc. And it's a static population increase for those 4-5 days.

    What you have described, Sir, is a problem of having not enough bandwidth on the outbound pipes connecting Indianapolis to the outside world.

    --
    Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
    1. Re:Good ole bandwidth problem by Chas · · Score: 1

      For the wired part? Yes.
      For the wireless? No. What I've described is sheer overload of available spectrum as there's so many devices "screaming" that I simply cannot get signal, in what is otherwise a 3-4 bar area. Call quality and completion suffer similarly.

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
  24. Combine it by Neil+Boekend · · Score: 1

    Just get the best from both worlds: wired low orbit satellites.

    --
    Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
  25. I'll answer that for you... by tlambert · · Score: 1

    I'm not sure which group has more balls.

    I'll answer that for you: the group where the wires they are stealing are capable of killing them because they are hooked up to a functioning electrical grid. Three phase power will happily fry your ass, if you try and steal a live wire.

  26. Re: You're sharing bandwidth. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But you also have the same problems you would laying out a "universal" internet or power grid in the US. You have densely populated areas that are difficult and expensive to build capacity into. And you have very sparsely populated areas where people building the capacity likely will never see a return on investment. And the latter actually outnumbers the former by an order of magnitude or more. And Africa is the same thing, but with over 3x the landmass and population.

    If you're talking about the U.S. with the Urban/Rural divide, I believe you meant to say the urban population vastly outnumbers the rural by a vast amount.

    Urban population in the U.S. is roughly 80% of the total population. I don't know what the percentage is for Africa.

  27. And it isn't leapfrogging by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

    There is this false idea that wireless is better than wired, that we will all move over, everything will be wireless all the time and life will be grand.

    Nope. You can always get more bandwidth, quite a bit more, out of wires than wireless. That pesky Shannonâ"Hartley Coding Theorem just keeps cropping up and getting in the way. If you want more bits per second, you either need more bandwidth (meaning more spectrum) or a better signal to noise ratio. When you are talking wireless the only thing you can do about SNR is to up transmission power, which is not without its own issues, and there is just only so much bandwidth you can have, particularly with given properties.

    See part of the problem is that as you move up the spectrum to higher frequencies, it gets easier to have more bandwidth, of course. However your signal gets more and more directional, and has less and less penetrating power. VHF and UHF are really good for transmissions. They are pretty non-directional and can penetrate most buildings without a whole lot of issues. However if you are operating on, say a 700MHz carrier your bandwidth is going to be limited, particularly when you have multiple services that want to use it. Indeed in the US you find that it is partitioned up in to 6, 10, 12, and 22MHz blocks.

    Now if you go way up in frequency, this isn't a problem. Go up to a few hundred THz, instead of MHz. Now bandwidth isn't a big issue. If you have a carrier of 700THz then you can have a few THz of bandwidth, no problem and thus tons of information... Only one issue. 700THz might be more popularly called "blue". You are up in the light range now, and of course light can't penetrate for shit. Even a piece of paper would be sufficient to disrupt the signal. It is also highly, highly directional.

    Finally there's a big issue which is that everyone has to share wireless. Anyone on a given segment, node, access point, etc is sharing whatever bandwidth there is. You don't each get your own bandwidth, you all have to share. So the more users, the less there is for each and there's really no way around that.

    And thus the problem. You can't "just get more" bandwidth when you are talking wireless. You run in to physical limits. Your SNR is limited by power considerations (and distance) and the atmosphere, your bandwidth is limited by what is useful, and not used by other things, and so on.

    With wired, not such an issue. You can go way up in frequency, particularly when you are talking fiber optic. However the real thing is that you can just lay more wires. You don't have to send a signal down one pair, you can have multiple. Ethernet is a good example of that. Gig and 10 gig use all 4 pairs, two to send, two to receive. Need more bandwidth on the same tech? Just lay another bundle. 8 pairs, as in two Cat-6a cables, will get you 20gbps, 12 pairs 30gpbs, and so on.

    That's all dedicated (and full duplex) too. Only the endpoints use that. You can have stacks of cables running right next to each other, connecting different devices, and none of them trod on each other, they all have separate bandwidth.

    So while wireless is cool, and useful, if we want fast speeds, if we want the ability to transfer lots of data all the time, we need wires. Wireless won't cut it. For that matter to the extent we can make it work well, it needs to be short range. You can use higher frequencies, have better SNR, and have less people per segment if you build the segments out. However that means lots of access points all over the place and those need to have backhaul, and that is going to be wired.

  28. Shannon's Capacity theorem and path loss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are two things that will make fiber optic cables the best medium for next 50 years. Shannon capacity theorem say Capacity=Bandwidth*log2(Signal_Power/Noise_Power). This can be multiplied by the number of individual channels we can create using e.g. MIMO. The, there is the free space path loss which is equal to (4*pi*Distance/Wavelength)^2. Now, if we want to increase the bandwidth, we have to increase the frequency, increased frequency means shorter wavelength and thus higher path loss. Wireless signals are use only for the last stage - e.g. between the base station and the cell phone. The base stations are connected with fiber. Building a high capacity wireless networks is _impossible_ without optical fiber backbone.

  29. Re: You're sharing bandwidth. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The urban population is only 80% if you count towns of 2500 or more as "urban".

    http://www.theatlanticcities.com/neighborhoods/2012/03/us-urban-population-what-does-urban-really-mean/1589/

  30. Also by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 1

    When you are talking shared wires like cable modems or PON there is always the solution of just add more frequencies. With DOCSIS 3, you can have an arbitrary number of channels devoted to cable modems. So if what you have isn't enough, you can add more. Now that means taking them from something else, of course, however there's likely to be plenty available. When analogue service is discontinued, well that's 100 channels you've got right there (on many cable networks the first 600MHz is analogue cable service, the next 400MHz is all the digital stuff).

    With PON it is even easier: Just shoot another laser down the fibre. That is already how it works: You have one wavelength for downstream, another for upstream, and another for video service. Well WDM doesn't stop at 3 wavelengths, you can have more. So as needed, more wavelengths can be added, giving more throughput.

    In terms of the sharing issues, well it is easy to see what wins on a busy campus, like where I work. We all share bandwidth, of course, the campus has a gig or two of total Internet speed, not a gig for each desktop. However for all that, wired access is fast all the time. We have enough. Wireless, well that's another story. You go to the student union at lunch time and you find it is really, really bad. Things load slow, if they load at all. You have to reload pages plenty and so on. There are just too many people fighting for what's there. It isn't for lack of APs either, the university puts hundreds (literally) in a building, but when people are all in the same space, all hitting the same APs, well it gets overloaded.

  31. Re: You're sharing bandwidth. by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    If something like this was going to be as simple as they're talking about, it'd have been done already.

    It's as simple as embracing mesh networking, but that's hard because convincing people that they want to use their battery to act as a repeater for others is an uphill battle.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  32. Re:I guess they don't take any history classes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why are you telling those that say "I could care less" the right way to say it? If they're not smart enough to understand what they're saying, why would they be smart enough to understand what you're saying?

  33. Re:I guess they don't take any history classes by sourcerror · · Score: 1

    If they think that wireless technology came after wired technology, they are very much mistaken. Perhaps they should focus on actually learning first.
    [...]
    For those as stupid as they are: over-the-air television came before cable. radio came before itunes.

    Maybe you should focus learning first. The first news broadcast was wired, not wireless. It started operation 20 years before the invention of radio.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telefon_H%C3%ADrmond%C3%B3

  34. cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    interesting discussion and topic.
    i wonder what the cost would be to outfit a small rural town with wired cable or fiber optic system. towns closer to a big city might be easy to wire.

    come to think of it, it might be easier to use an existing 3G or some other wifi network in a small town. just a thought

  35. Hmmm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was expecting they were tying network cables to leapfrogs and letting them roam. Does that make me culturally insensitive?

  36. Don't lie. You'd do the same thing. by T.E.D. · · Score: 1

    In a country where the median yearly income is measured in hundreds of dollars, copper is relatively worth so much that you might as well be laying miles and miles of gold wire instead.

    A man's first responsibility in this world is to keep his children from starving to death. Somewhere way, way after that comes his responsibility to obey laws that don't involve violent offenses.

  37. Python recipe to resolve Google redirects by tepples · · Score: 1

    If you want the real URL, you need to click the link and copy the result out of the address bar.

    That's sort of hard for PDFs in some browsers because when you click the link, the result never appears in the address bar. Instead, the "Open With Adobe/Foxit/Sumatra Reader or Save File" dialog box appears. I had to break out Python.

  38. FM vs. in-car tape and CD by tepples · · Score: 1

    I believe the phrase you are too ignorant to quote is "coundn't care less"

    In practice, "I could care less" means "...but barely".

    what the hell does itunes have to do with wireless vs wired?

    Before digital audio players, FM radio and AM radio were the only choices for hearing a decent variety of music in a vehicle. In-car tape and CD players didn't allow for the sort of shuffled multi-hour playlist characteristic of commercial music radio. Even a strict top 40 station plays more songs than will fit on a single CD. And it was difficult to become exposed to new music in the car until smartphones became common.

  39. and leap frogging Cancer rates... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    not that there is a causal relationship, but we see Africa cancer rates leap frogs as well.

    This is one way to handle high birth rates through the back door.

  40. Re: You're sharing bandwidth. by Darinbob · · Score: 1

    But there are many cases where there is no profit for hooking up telephone, and thus many people have no telephone service. Most corporations have no interesting in spending $100,000 to set up infrastructure so that a village of 10 people can spend $10/month to use a telephone, instead it takes government pressure or incentives to force the infrastructure for the good of the country. In many countries the will to do this just is not there.

  41. Real reason by algoa456 · · Score: 0

    The real reason Africa will go to wireless is because they steal the copper and aluminum cables and sell them to a scrap merchant. Often cables are removed within 24 hours of them going up. It is easier to guard base stations especially if they are put in a village and the headman is paid a few dollars a month to guard the installation.

  42. Re: You're sharing bandwidth. by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

    Granted, in much of Africa, the population density is NOWHERE near that high.

    However simple economics indicates that the first places to get supplied with any novel sort of service will be the areas of highest population density, simply because you can then reach the highest number of people for the smallest investment in fixed assets.

    --
    Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"