NRA Joins ACLU Lawsuit Against NSA

cold fjord writes with this excerpt from The Hill: "The National Rifle Association joined the American Civil Liberties Union's lawsuit on Wednesday to end the government's massive phone record collection program. In a brief filed in federal court, the NRA argues that the National Security Agency's database of phone records amounts to a 'national gun registry.' 'It would be absurd to think that the Congress would adopt and maintain a web of statutes intended to protect against the creation of a national gun registry, while simultaneously authorizing the FBI and the NSA to gather records that could effectively create just such a registry,' the group writes. ... In its filing, the gun-rights group claims that the NSA's database would allow the government to identify and track gun owners based on whether they've called gun stores, shooting ranges or the NRA. 'Under the government's reading of Section 215, the government could simply demand the periodic submission of all firearms dealers' transaction records, then centralize them in a database indexed by the buyers' names for later searching,' the NRA writes."

Comments

So it has come to this

[Anonymous Coward]

When the NRA and ACLU both oppose something, you know it's bad for everyone.

Re:So it has come to this

[ajs]

Are you asking for evidence of donation or of the ACLU doing far more good than the NRA? Both seem to be odd questions.

The NRA claims that protecting gun ownership protects civil rights by empowering the individual to defend themselves against the government (we'll ignore, for a moment that nothing could be further from the truth, and everyone in this nation, armed or not is a heartbeat away from a smart bomb at their breakfast table, or that you can be financially and socially ruined without ever having the opportunity to shoot back). Let's take the NRA's claim at face value and assume that they are 100% correct.

They still only defend the status quo. Having a gun doesn't undo the erosion of rights due to the corrosive influence of the re-election cycle in Washington. The ACLU seeks to actively move the line of civil rights back to where it started, and hopefully even a bit further through the courts and activism.

Now, the ACLU and the NRA happen to disagree over the interpretation of the 2nd amendment (FWIW, I think that was the stupidest call the ACLU ever made) but even when they disagree they're still nominally working toward the same goal (the ACLU isn't trying to prop up the gun industry, but I'm talking about implied goals, here), so it's pretty easy to judge which of them objectively makes the most progress...

Re:So it has come to this

[TimMartin6233]

The ACLU has argued an incredible number of cases in the Supreme Court and won a good number of them. Brown vs board of education, roe v wade, miranda, scopes, etc. I would put them on the "good" side of all of those cases but your opinion might differ.

Re:So it has come to this

[Jane Q. Public]

The ACLU has argued an incredible number of cases in the Supreme Court and won a good number of them. Brown vs board of education, roe v wade, miranda, scopes, etc. I would put them on the "good" side of all of those cases but your opinion might differ.

I would put ACLU on the "good" side, but not good enough. Historically, their position has been that the Second Amendment does not deserve the protections due all the others.

If they dumped that single, grossly hypocritical position, I would support most of their efforts. (Though not all... there have been a few times when they backed ridiculous ideas in the name of "rights" that are nowhere to be found in the law or the Constitution.)

Re:So it has come to this

[Arker]

I havent donated to the NRA in decades. They are too soft on the second amendment. The fact that even they recognise this has gone too far speaks volumes.

you know hell has frozen over

[halfEvilTech]

When the NRA, EFF, ACLU and the author of the [un]Patriot Act are all against it.

Re:you know hell has frozen over

[Quila]

Even if the NRA prop up an industry by manipulating US politics

You mean influences US politics on behalf of its millions of members, and millions more like-minded non-members. Kind of like the ACLU.

What you said is like saying the EFF only does what it does in order to prop up Internet services companies because they profit from a free and open Internet.

Re:you know hell has frozen over

[Ksevio]

It's kind of a waste of resources for the ACLU to defend 2nd amendment cases. The NRA and other groups are eager to fill the gap whereas there are fewer groups for other civil liberties.

Re:you know hell has frozen over

[JesseMcDonald]

Then what ... is a "well regulated militia"? One guy regulating himself?

In the language of the time, it meant every able-bodied male of military age, with the training and supplies necessary to operate as an effective military force in time of need. There was no question of whether weapons were limited to the militia, because the militia was everyone deemed capable of using them.

In any case, the right is not restricted to the militia: "the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." "The people" is an even more all-inclusive term than "well regulated militia".

Sic semper tyrannis

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

Such tracking is exactly the kind of thing the King of England would have used against the Founding Fathers, and would have been banned by them after the Revolution, which would have been very much less likely with "metadata" gathering and tracking of who called whom, whether it be gun shops or other supporting people.

Saying "metadata" isn't protected is the biggest fraud in recent history. We must continue backing the government away from building the tools of tyranny. It makes no difference that they "use it wisely" currently. Don't let it get started at all.

This is for the weak-minded who get upset over "absolutism". Go read the Bill of Rights.

Lovecraft had it right

[kruach aum]

"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far. The sciences, each straining in its own direction, have hitherto harmed us little; but some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the deadly light into the peace and safety of a new dark age."

It has happened before

[Beryllium Sphere(tm)]

The NRA and ACLU were joint petitioners to the Clinton Administration trying to restrain a patter of abuses by Federal law enforcement. (Clinton ignored them).

Re:It has happened before

[sycodon]

One very disturbing trend is the use of heavily armed SWAT teams to carry out actions related to civil and not criminal investigations.

Just the other day the EPA sent a SWAT team to check on the water quality at several small gold mining operations in Alaska.

Of course, Ruby Ridge and Waco will always be examples of out of control Feds.

Re:This just in:

[msauve]

"they aren't after your stupid guns."

Depends on who you mean by "they."

If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them . . . Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in, I would have done it. I could not do that. The votes weren't here.

- Sen. Diane Feinstein, February 5, 1995

Confiscation could be an option...mandatory sale to the state could be an option

- NY Gov. Andrew Cuomo, December 20, 2012