Google's Encryption Plan To Stifle NSA's Dragnet Will Raise the Stakes
CWmike writes "Google's strategy for making surveillance of user Internet activity more difficult for U.S. and foreign governments — started last year, but accelerated in June following the NSA leaks — is as much about economics as data encryption, experts say. Eric Grosse, vice president for security engineering at Google, told The Washington Post: 'It's an arms race.' The crux of the issue with Google making the NSA dragnet harder (knowing if the government wants in, it will get in) is that the NSA evaluates the tactic it uses by weighing the cost with the value of the information obtained. However, the agency does evaluate the tactic it uses by weighing the cost with the value of the information obtained. 'The NSA has turned the fabric of the Internet into a vast surveillance platform, but they are not magical,' Bruce Schneier, a renowned security technologist and cryptographer, wrote in The Guardian. 'They're limited by the same economic realities as the rest of us, and our best defense is to make surveillance of us as expensive as possible.' The NSA's capabilities for cracking encryption are not known outside the agency. However, the most secure part of an encryption system remains the 'mathematics of cryptography,' Schneier said. The greater weaknesses, and the ones mostly likely to be exploited by governments in general, are the systems at the start and end of the data flow. 'I worry a lot more about poorly designed cryptographic products, software bugs, bad passwords, companies that collaborate with the NSA to leak all or part of the keys, and insecure computers and networks.' Is this about citizen's rights, or a business decision (some might say an existential issue) for Google? Does it matter, and will it make a difference?"
Eric Grosse, vice president for security engineering at Google, told The Washington Post: 'It's an arms race.' The crux of the issue with Google making the NSA dragnet harder (knowing if the government wants in, it will get in) is that the NSA evaluates the tactic it uses by weighing the cost with the value of the information obtained.
- yeah, it's an arms race alright. It's a kind of a race where if Google doesn't give the NSA what NSA wants, Google's employees and management will find itself on the wrong side of a gun.
MY OTHER COMMENTS
Google's strategy for making surveillance of user Internet activity more difficult for U.S. and foreign governments
So.. the only organisation conducting invasive surveillance of my Internet activity will be Google? I'm most relieved.
Certain content delivery networks already do this. For decades.
I find it hard to believe that Google was really not encrypting its non-client ingress/egress traffic.
Kriston
The plain text is still not legally protected under a NSL/hidden self-signed "court" at the advertising keyword end.
The metadata is still not legally protected under a NSL/hidden self-signed "court" as sent.
The mathematics of cryptography is great PR along the tube but reality sets in at the end of the tube again.
http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/09/09/shifting_shadow_stormbrew_flying_pig_new_snowden_documents_show_nsa_deemed.html
STORMBREW and FLYING PIG show some insights into router and covert data redirection, the use of fake security certificates and the results been unencrypted.
Also note the bypassing (man-in-the-middle) ability via security certificates aspect.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
A technological solution will never work. The NSA had court orders and gag orders. While the NSA doing this does not shock or bother me the idea that you can stop them with technology is just silly. Human spies will get around that as they always have.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
To me it was obvious from the start that Google was founded with borrowed search algorithms that had been honed for a different purpose: finding connections in intercepts. So now they are trying to sell that they will have crypto that is out of reach from an agency that they are in bed with? They PAY Google some undisclosed excessive amount to provide information. It is a profit center. I'm not even sure if Google is really a public company. (The name may have come from a joke about 'G'overnment 'OOGLing' )
Why would anyone believe they are on the publics side?
"Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men."
~ Ayn Rand
READY.
PRINT ""+-0
"Eric Grosse, vice president for security engineering at Google, told The Washington Post: 'It's an arms race.'"
No it isn't. China wanted you to backdoor in China and you left China, USA wanted you to backdoor in the USA and you complied Eric. It's not an arm race when a secret letter is all it takes to get your data. Just after PRISM leaks, we learned they started to demand the keys too. In effect expanding surveillance of your services to 100% coverage while reducing the use of PRISM. Is *that* an arms race? No, it's a PR scam. It would let you Google, Microsoft, Facebook, Yahoo pretend surveillance had reduced (in PRISM) when in fact it had become total (via intercept).
Also don't kid us that it's only for terrorism. All the NSA does when it wants to spy on anyone, is stick an agent provocateur on the form to post a threat. That gives it the excuse it needs to then spy on everyone in the forum, and their friends and families using the 3-steps deep rule. Twenty million queries a month!
How about you come clean on Cloud Print? That data goes through your servers and can be matched to users data, I bet you give NSA that too?
It's entirely about PR, trying to regain lost trust, WHILE THE STASI ARE STILL LIVING IN YOUR HOUSE. The best defense is to not visit your house!
I will believe Google is genuinely against NSA's encryption breaking scheme only when Google moves ALL their servers OUTSIDE of the United States of America.
No point of talking about "upping the stakes" when the same old thing - a secret warrant demanding full disclosure - can happen anytime.
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
As long as the data is in the u.s. and subject to government subpoena this is meaningless. Depending on how google is structured they could move their data centers outside the u.s. and not have it subject to secret orders. Switzerland would be a great place as they have strict data protection laws.
The real point here is not Google giving the NSA your information or not, they are an US based company, they must comply and give all the information requested by the NSA. And, if the used internal encryption is good enough, the only way to get that information will be directly from Google, then Google's will know what the NSA got from them, and they could eventually control (delaying, giving partial or even fake information) what they NSA gets, or store that information for future use (in the case that law gets curious about what is that justice that is everyone talking about)
That don't make Google a friend, but at least a potential enemy of our biggest enemy, and is something to be respected.
If my taxes pay for the NSA and using encryption will cost the NSA more money to decrypt. Then I'll have to give up more of my money to them decrypt my messages?
and what they will do with what they know about me from about 1000 different channels, digital, clickstream, email text, inbound, outbound, print, video, audio, call records, transaction histories, demographic data, geneological histories, all carefully indexed and archived and MapReduce'd and data mined for moment-by-moment behavorial patterns.
Have you ever bought anything from Google as a consumer? No? Then how do you think they keep 35,000 pampered employees on the payroll with a million servers running 24x7 answering search queries from around the world?
The NSA, after all, is a bunch of guys with comfortable guaranteed (?) lifetime careers working for the Federal Government. How good can they be?
The NSA keep trying the same old trick. They want to orchestrate mass adoption of a system that appears secure but isn't. Somewhere in the technology stack there's a backdoor allowing the NSA access to the plaintext. We know what the NSA's two agendas are and its a huge conflict of interests for them to release a encryption system that they cannot themselves break. Even if the code appears secure they have rigged modern hardware to leak keys through side channels. _Of course_ Google's new system will be backdoored and _of course_ Google will be gagged. Google can never be trusted again. No matter what they say. The NSA are behind this. They are trying to provide a solution through Google because they fear people will move to develop a variety of encryption algorithms and products which will be expensive to analyze and break and automate surveillance of. Obscurity != Security but its fucking expensive.
This is good business for Google.
If matters stay as they are now, users will leaving by droves when a non-american alternative present itself (and it will appear. people will not miss this opportunity). Rather than trying to defend it's data, Google must win back users trust or it wont stay in business for long.
The same can be said for most big american software and internet companies.
... factories that make $5 wrenchs. I heard they are set to make a killing soon.
This is a joke and amounts to nothing but a smoke screen. We now know that Google is an active partner of the NSA and the U.S. government...we should treat them *as* the NSA. What does any of this matter when Google has whole division(s) dedicated to preparing data for use by the NSA. They'll give keys, they'll give data, they'll give metadata, they'll give educated guesses, they'll prepare 3D topographic maps about that data.
Geeks like to think that they can ignore politics, you can leave politics alone, but politics won't leave you alone.-rms
You can encrypt all you like, if there's a backdoor made for people to access, it's meaningless.
Make a "PRISM compliant" sticker :)
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
... going to fight the surveillance state?
In *our* behalf?
Allow me the following outburst. Ha,ha,ha.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
If people are inclined to choose other more secure options for email, Google could lose customers. Furthermore, if Google isn't privy to your unencrypted traffic in some way, there's no info to collect for targeted advertising. So Google has some motivation to take charge of the encryption...
Google is against anything that makes people not trust Google, including the NSA. Google would happily keep all your data secret, except from their own advertising algorithms. but Google would also sell your data to the NSA for what they consider "fair market value", which given the preceeding is a lot higher than the NSA wants to pay for it.
Google pays a computational price for encrypting your data, but it's worth it if either
(a) the NSA is now forced to buy your data from Google, instead of stealing it like they currently do, or
(b) people trust Google more as a result.
Google wants to publish the number of NSLs it receives to (a) make people feel more confident and (b) make the NSA, DEA, FBI, etc. evaluate more carefully the data they request. Why is (b) good for Google's bottom line? I think, if the agencies are spending more personnel time on the data they request, that data appears even more important, so Google can charge more for the data the agencies really want, while incurring less risk.
Google is still a company, but it's a company run by a founder. Founders almost always make them behave much less like psycopaths than Wall St CEOs.
The Christian religion has been and still is the principal enemy of moral progress in the world. -- Bertrand Russell
I've never understood why encryption isn't already built in to everything we do in modern technology. As far as I am concerned the network card in your computer should generic a one-time public/private key pair for EACH connection it is making or receiving. The public key is transmitted to the other network device which uses it to encrypt the data to get sent back. Once a connection is closed the keys, salts, and other information is destroyed.
It would take a little extra computation on the hardware to make it happen, but the storage requirements for keeping the keys is minimal since each key would, in theory on exist for a few minutes before a connection is closed, and in the case of web traffic, a few seconds.
We could do a way with all sorts of things, like OS level encryption if it was built in by default - or keep it, and add a 2nd level of complexity to the data.