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Poor US Infrastructure Threatens the Cloud

snydeq writes "Thanks to state-sponsored cable/phone duopolies, U.S. broadband stays slow and expensive — and will probably impede cloud adoption, writes Andrew C. Oliver. 'As a patriotic American, I find the current political atmosphere where telecom lobbyists set the agenda to be a nightmare. All over the world, high-end fiber is being deployed while powerful monopolies in the United States work to prevent it from coming here,' Oliver writes. 'I expect that cloud adoption will closely match broadband speed, cost, and availability curves. Those companies living in countries where the broadband monopoly is protected will adopt the cloud at a slower rate than those with competitive markets and municipal fiber. There's a good chance U.S. firms will fall into that group.'"

31 of 177 comments (clear)

  1. Don't worry by blackpaw · · Score: 4, Informative

    Here in Australia we just elected in a right wing government, they are intent on fucking up our Broadband network as well to protect entrenched interests such as Murdock and Foxtel, so you're not alone.

    1. Re:Don't worry by Capsaicin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Here in Australia we just elected in a right wing government, they are intent on fucking up our Broadband network as well to protect entrenched interests such as Murdock [sic] and [sic] Foxtel, so you're not alone.

      From the PoV of established media players, the threat of to-the-home-fibre, that the erstwhile Labor govt was implementing, as opposed to the fibre-to-the-node, copper-to-the-home system we will now be getting, is that it would further to erode traditional business models. The traditional producer-consumer relationship is already strained by the self-publication the web, via blogs and social media, has introduced. Reproducing this on a hardware level with a network of peers replacing a company servers - consumer clients model ramps this up to a whole new level.

      The requirements of vested interests play well into the lack of scientific/technological awareness of Abbott and many of colleagues (excluding Turnbull obviously).

      --
      Better to be despised for too anxious apprehensions, than ruined by too confident a security. --Edmund Burke
  2. NSA aint helping either by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Lets not forget about the people that wont use a US based cloud service because of the NSA snooping.

    1. Re:NSA aint helping either by MacDork · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Seconded. The NSA has ruined it for the US cloud companies. Permanently. Does Google, Facebook, and friends think that anyone will trust them again? They lied. They lied about lying. Then they lied about that. Now they're pushing to release FISC documents? As if that would somehow sprinkle magical dust on the problem and make it go away?

      There are no privacy protection laws limiting the types of data companies collect in the US. These companies collect data because it makes them lots of money. In the process, they are the facilitators for the NSA.

      Want to restore trust Google? Stop syncing WiFi passwords on android by default. Stop shipping a browser with Do Not Track defaulted to off. Stop collecting data you don't need or have any business collecting. Of course, that won't happen. That's why this crop of invasive companies have been dealt a deathblow by Snowden. I give them 15 years before they've been made irrelevant by newer peer to peer systems. Maybe less.

    2. Re:NSA aint helping either by gweihir · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Hey, I have a nice conspiracy theory: The NSA is behind the low bandwidths! As they need to collect any and all packets, they had the bright idea to make that easier by making sure the network snooped on is slow, so they do not need a surveillance network much faster. After all, the data has to come to their servers somehow....

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    3. Re:NSA aint helping either by MrDoh! · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Not just the spying to put people off, but I seriously wonder if the delay in rolling out really fast connections is related to the NSA's ability to scoop up that data. "can you hold off providing 1gb asymetric links to all your subscribers until we upgrade our data center please? Cheers, the offshore bonus to the CEO is in the usual account".

      --
      Waiting for an amusing sig.
    4. Re:NSA aint helping either by AHuxley · · Score: 2

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A would show the risks in rapid property changes and rushed new technology upgrades.
      If NSA cleared contractors are not called out in time, local engineers and new middle management might start to open their doors and ask real questions.
      Upgrades are messy: new ides, new staff, new smaller property, more passive optical.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    5. Re:NSA aint helping either by game+kid · · Score: 2

      ...and if the transfer speeds are reasonable, then cut off for "data limit" reasons.

      No, I don't think it's just a conspiracy.

      --
      You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
    6. Re:NSA aint helping either by tepples · · Score: 3, Informative

      Stop shipping a browser with Do Not Track defaulted to off.

      Some web servers have had a policy of disregarding DNT headers from browsers known to default it to on. Case in point: pre-release versions of IE 10. If Google were to "Stop shipping a browser with Do Not Track defaulted to off" as you suggest, what would that do other than get Chrome added to the list of browsers from which to disregard DNT?

    7. Re:NSA aint helping either by DworkinLV · · Score: 2

      Why does most everybody think that just the cloud providers will be harmed. The firmware for switches/routers/hardware firewalls, etc is an ideal place to backdoor the networks. If I was going to spy on foreign governments that is where I would look to setup backdoors, in the infrastructure that DEFINES their networks.

      --
      Browsing without an adblocker is like fucking without a condom - Mal-2
    8. Re:NSA aint helping either by Stickerboy · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Stop shipping a browser with Do Not Track defaulted to off.

      Some web servers have had a policy of disregarding DNT headers from browsers known to default it to on. Case in point: pre-release versions of IE 10. If Google were to "Stop shipping a browser with Do Not Track defaulted to off" as you suggest, what would that do other than get Chrome added to the list of browsers from which to disregard DNT?

      Is this a damnation of Internet Explorer, or a damnation of a weak-ass privacy flag labeled "Do Not Track" that corporations can apparently ignore at will?

      Newsflash: this is not a indication that Google is doing things the right way. This means Do Not Track needs to be fixed.

      --
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    9. Re:NSA aint helping either by Kazoo+the+Clown · · Score: 2

      Unfortunately, these companies know that most people a) don't much care what the NSA does, b) have a very short memory and short attention span, and c) just can't wait to consume the next shiny thing that comes along.

      For the rest of us, no matter what the politicians say or do, we will never trust them or the NSA again, and will never believe anything the US internet companies have to say about it again. Credibility is gone baby, gone.

    10. Re:NSA aint helping either by idontgno · · Score: 3, Funny

      An RFC is a standard in all but name. Not as clumsy or random as a formal specification; an elegant standard for a more civilized age. Back when "rough consensus and running code" was enough. Before the dark times... before Eternal September.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
  3. Local government wants its cut by mc6809e · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Many municipalities have a franchise arrangement that gives the local cable company a monopoly so long as the cable company pays a franchise fee.

    Where I live, that fee is 5% of GROSS revenue -- quite a lot of money. Many businesses would be happy with profits that are 5% of the gross.

    Of course the cable company doesn't mind paying because they can inflate rates without worrying about competition. And the local government doesn't mind because higher rates mean more money for them!

    It's really a hidden tax on an artificially higher bill. And the fact that it's hidden means the typical voter doesn't know they might have the power to change it -- and that's precisely the goal.

  4. Infrastructure pretty much requires the gov't by rsilvergun · · Score: 4, Insightful

    you can't make enough money off it in the short term to make it a worth while investment. As in investor there's always something with better gains in your lifetime. That's why the gov't made the comm network, the railroads, the (car) roads, and just about everything going back to the fsckin' Aquaducts.

    --
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    1. Re:Infrastructure pretty much requires the gov't by mc6809e · · Score: 4, Insightful

      That's why the gov't made the comm network, the railroads, the (car) roads, and just about everything going back to the fsckin' Aquaducts.

      The government paid for a lot of of those things, but that's not the same thing as making a lot of those things. And in that respect the government is simply acting as the agent for the collective purchase of something that (hopefully) provides a collective benefit.

      That's sort of the point of democratic-republican (little 'd' and little 'r') government -- to do the collective will of the people. Sometimes that means buying stuff (and that's not socialism -- that's just normal government).

    2. Re:Infrastructure pretty much requires the gov't by NouberNou · · Score: 3, Insightful

      So much wrong in this its not even funny. Who provided the money? Government. Who provided the land. Government. Who provided the basic technologies. Government. Get your head out of Ayn Rand's rancid cunt and realize public/private partnerships are the best, because neither side can do everything on their own.

    3. Re:Infrastructure pretty much requires the gov't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Very clever word usage.

      The private sector built the railroads,

      ...because of massive government incentives like land grants.

      funded bridges,

      ...so they could get their free land from the government that was worth more.

      worked with (oil, gas, iron, steel),

      Yes, that is what industry does. The government is not allowed to directly do such things.

      positioned pipelines,

      ...for their own profit and convenience. There was never a 'public good or need' for them.

      electrical grid, telephone...

      Again, with great government incentives in place like local monopolies, right of way, and special taxes to pay for it all.

      optical is on the way

      So are vacation homes on mars. Your words are meaningless.

      - just wait like other generations had to.

      Ahh, and now we get to the real problem. There is little incentive to improve. With most locales having monopolies or duopolies, there is no competition and thus no incentive to change until something breaks and really has to be replaced. Meanwhile other countries that care about infrastructure are funding it with public money, for public good, with public control. Our information tech dominance is slipping away while we wait for the invisible hand to stop touching itself.

    4. Re:Infrastructure pretty much requires the gov't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Who provided the land. Government.

      I'm pretty sure the land was provided by millennia of geological and biological processes.

  5. wow, mixed feelings by phantomfive · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Slow broadband adoption? Baaaad
    Slow cloud adoption (ie, not putting all your data at the mercy of someone else)? Good.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  6. Re:What can the US do? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Have to post this anon. I work for AT&T and we do optical to the node with existing copper. Unfortunately the existing copper from the node and then the copper wiring in homes throws a wrench in 75% of the time. Optical to the home then gigabit Ethernet would be a better solution. I am often asked why as an employee I use Cox cable. Because they give me superior bandwidth, and a more reliable product... and they come out on Sundays. US carriers are not into upgrading infrastructure but intent on monetizing everything they can. We charge the exact same thing for DSL we did in 1997.

  7. Is the basic premise even TRUE? by Dahamma · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I have 50/10 Mbps for $70 and yes, it actually has been as advertised every time I have tested it for the last couple years. We routinely use two 9Mbps video streams with no issues and plenty of bandwidth left for browsing/downloading/whatever.

    People in the US have routinely paid $100+ for cable/satellite TV for years. $8/month gets you Netflix or Hulu (or x2 for both) and there are a tons of VOD services now (VUDU, Amazon, CinemaNow, etc) to rent (or buy) movies/TV instead of using Showtime/HBO/Starz/etc.

    The big problem is not necessarily US infrastructure (at least by expenditure) vs. other countries, it's the fact that the US has a lot less population density. In urban areas, there are almost always options and the performance/price is pretty decent. In rural areas it hasn't caught up because frankly it will cost a lot of $$ per customer. Yes, South Korea has great broadband, but that's because it's mostly VDSL, etc running to multi-unit high rises...

  8. Re:Size matters by jrumney · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Japan population density: 330p/sqmi.

    New Jersey: 1196p/sqmi. Rhode Island: 1018p/sqmi. Massachusetts: 839p/sqmi. Connecticut: 738p/sqmi. Maryland: 595p/sqmi. Delaware: 461p/sqmi. New York: 411p/sqmi. Florida: 351p/sqmi. US coastal counties population density: 440 p/sqmi.

    But apparently those areas can't have high speed broadband because the population density of Wyoming and Alaska makes the cost prohibitive.

  9. Re:Government sucks by Mitchell314 · · Score: 2

    Yeah, I don't need to say any more: http://xkcd.com/610/

    --
    I read TFA and all I got was this lousy cookie
  10. Why Use a Cloud? by Phoenix666 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yesterday I spent three hours trying to help a friend upload a mysql file to his Amazon cloud service. There was no such thing as a simple ftp. Trying to PuTTY into his setup was impossible too. Calling tech support, which he paid for, resulted in them sending us links to articles we had already found via google and which were not helpful. Everything was so cloaked in marketing speak that it was impossible to tease out how to do anything normal and straightforward. They couldn't even manage to say words like "VPN" or "ssh." Simply ridiculous. Who has the time to learn a whole new nomenclature for the same old tasks we've all been doing for decades, just to satisfy a bunch of marketing droids whose only interest is in being the least helpful they can possibly be, and sucking as much cash out of you as they possibly can. Jeeze, just set up your own server and VPN and you have your own "cloud." And it costs you nothing, and nobody gets in your way with a bunch of nonsense.

    --
    Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
  11. Re:Size matters by jrumney · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Sorry, I made a mistake. Japan is 330p/sqkm, which places it at the same level as Massachusetts, not Florida. But still, there are definitely areas of the US that have the population density to support globally competitive infrastructure, and politicians and apologists need to stop using the vast empty space in the Midwest to build a population density excuse.

  12. The US Way by ackthpt · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Wring every last cent out of the existing technology (i.e. copper wire), pay executives big bonuses and screw customers with rotten customer service. Small wonder we're becoming a backwater.

    --

    A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
  13. Short-term leases by tepples · · Score: 2

    Jeeze, just set up your own server

    I thought the difference between leasing a server and using "The Cloud" was originally supposed to refer to rapid provisioning and rapid failover. For example, you don't have to commit to a year's lease of a dedicated or virtual server; you can bring up virtual servers to meet demand and then decommission them once they're no longer needed.

  14. An easy fix by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 2

    An easy fix is to change the "game theory" dynamic.

    Currently, we don't pay for usage, we pay for access. The providers get the best value by discouraging use: high monthly fees, data caps, throttling power users, poor facilities, installation fees, and poor customer care.

    If the government required providers to charge for usage only, then the providers couldn't increase profits except by increasing use. They would have an incentive to build fast pipes, connect everyone in their area, have customer service that gets people up and running quickly, allow servers, and encourage innovative new applications.

    This could be changed without affecting their annual profits - just tally up all the usage in the last year and divide into their current revenues. They would make the same profits next year as last year, but with an to provide better service.

    Just another example of how the federal government doesn't really benefit the people.

  15. Re: This is wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Sweden made the journey years ago. Most municipal infrastructure companies started to roll out fiber in parallel with existing cable ducts. The railroad company put fiber along all tracks nation wide. All of this fiber is dark fiber that isp can rent cheap.

    So I have 6 isp to select from at home. Competition is the key for cheap prices.

  16. Re:Size matters by inhuman_4 · · Score: 2

    That is a bunch of crap. It has nothing to do with population density, and everything to do with how messed up the market is. I know because the situation here in Canada is the same as in the US. A handful of companies control the whole market.

    Here is an example for you. Finland has crazy good internet connections, with only a population of 5.4 million. Where I live in the Greater Toronto Area (GTA) has a population of 6 million. My city has more people than some whole European countries!

    The New York Metropolitan Area has 23 million. Thats half the population of Spain!

    This idea that population density is the problem is bullshit.