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A Timely Revision of Elop's "Burning Platform" Memo

Nerval's Lobster writes "Microsoft's purchase of Finnish phone-maker Nokia will enrich the latter's CEO, Stephen Elop, to the tune of roughly $25.4 million. That's a generous number, considering Nokia's much-publicized travails over the past few years — generous enough, certainly, to prod angry reactions from the Finnish media. As Elop came aboard Nokia in 2011, he wrote the infamous 'burning platform' memo, in which he suggested that radical moves would be necessary to halt the company's market-share declines. In light of these latest revelations, however, I offer an updated version of Elop's memo: ''

144 comments

  1. It shoud have suprised no one by geekoid · · Score: 4, Insightful

    everyone know this was his goal from the beginning. You don't become CEO, and make a statement like that without the intention of selling.

    --
    The Kruger Dunning explains most post on /. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
    1. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by peragrin · · Score: 1

      Well duh. elop took a good brand. Stole and/or sold all the cash, good will and intelligence out. Shot it in the head and then raped the corpse a couple of times and sold the sloppy seconds to Ballmer who gobbled it up greedily.

      I think someone needs to revoke my metaphor license for a while.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    2. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Looks like what microsoft did to a number of other companies in the 90s, like SGI for instance.

      Cripple your competition to get a leg up.

      Seriously how anyone would be stupid enough to hire a microsoft manager for ANY critical strategic position in their company after the past two decades of activities show that most companies aren't paying attention to history and thus dooming themselves to repeat it.

    3. Re:It shoud have suprised no one by roc97007 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      everyone know this was his goal from the beginning. You don't become CEO, and make a statement like that without the intention of selling.

      I would submit that it didn't surprise *anyone*. The people who insisted that this outcome was not planned from the start are the same people who benefit from the results. (In other words, they were lying. Everyone knows it, so they don't have to feign surprise.) The people who were hoping against hope that this was not the case, really had to know in their heart of hearts that this was the intended end game. And the rest of us could see this coming from 4100 miles away.

      This should be yet another lesson to companies across the planet. Your CEO may not be working for you. If what any executive says doesn't make sense, INVESTIGATE. Don't just take their word for it. Their goals may be entirely different from the company's goals.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    4. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by plover · · Score: 1, Insightful

      You missed a key fact: Elop took a good brand that now had only unwanted, aging products that could no longer compete, executed the most expensive failures, and sold the rest before the marketplace killed them completely.

      Had he pumped hundreds of millions of dollars into Symbian, and tried to make a go of it based on an existing loyal fan base and lots of marketing, he would have ended up EXACTLY like Blackberry -- warehouses filled with unsold phones, flat broke, and completely irrelevant in the marketplace. At least with Microsoft owning them, they're not broke.

      I don't know why everyone on slashdot has remained so deluded about Nokia's potential future had Elop not taken those actions. They were not competitive, and their prospects were poor. If Symbian and Meego were as great as everyone here imagines, why weren't they crushing iPhones back in 2010?

      --
      John
    5. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by Znork · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Maemo could easily have been adapted to run android apps as well and the capability was even commercially available before Elop took over. An android track at Nokia could have had a decent chance competing with Samsung. Having an OS that there are actually people who want would have put Nokia at least in a better position.

      Considering Nokia was selling 10 times as many phones as Apple in 2010 they certainly were utterly crushing iphones.

      So, Nokia certainly had a future and Elop certainly ran one of the greatest destructions of value in history. Hopefully he'll go on doing the same and finish what Ballmer's started at Microsoft.

    6. Re:It shoud have suprised no one by NatasRevol · · Score: 4, Insightful
      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    7. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Meego wasn't even released back in 2010. It was released in 2011, AFTER everybody knew that it had no future, Nokia made all they could to stop people from knowing about it, and still the only Meego phone (the N9) sold better than the Lumia 800 (which was exactly the same phone, but with Windows Phone 7).

    8. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by chuckinator · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Funny that Motorola did the exact same thing except with Android instead of Windows Mobile and had resounding success.

    9. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Huh? The problem is, he killed Symbian at a time when is was still highly profitable and had increasing sales (but not market share). Don't spread the myth that Nokia was already failing when he took over. This is not true and the numbers speak a clear language. And yes, the had a replacement for Symbian already working: Meego. Switching to windows phone - a system already failing on the market - was the least sensible thing to do. And guys, please don't rate things insightful just because it sounds sensible. Actual numbers cleary disagree. Nokia smartohone sales:
      http://www.asymco.com/2013/04/18/lumia-is-the-light-visible/

      Quartely earnings reports:
      http://www.nokia.com/global/about-nokia/investors/financials/reports/results---reports/

    10. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by steelfood · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Everybody here wasn't interested in Symbian. Everybody knew at the time it was a dead end, even with their plethora of existing apps. S60 sucked as a smartphone OS, even to the developers who wrote for it.

      Meego was the way forward. It was built using Qt on top of Linux. It wasn't as popular as Android outside of Nokia and Intel, but it had a future. Just before the first Meego phone (N900) launched, Elop took over. It was killed without even given a chance. To answer your question, that is why Meego never competed with Android and the iOS.

      Right as Elop took over, Nokia took a 180 turn away from Meego. They spent 3, 4 years completely redeveloping their processes, completely revamping their developers, wasting countless resources that were Meego-based, just so they could put Windows Phone on their hardware. And to boot, they produced some less-than spectacular phones for an OS (Windows Phone 7) that was going to die before it hit the shelves.

      All those wasted resources could have gone to Meego, and polishing what was already a fairly good OS. They had an OS in-house that was close to being ready. Elop threw it out and spent a fortune bringing in a third-party OS which suffered from the same flaws as Meego (namely not having a large app base) and had no advantages over it whatsoever.

      I'll skip the uglier parts of the analogy, but if Meego was Nokia's baby, created to ensure the survival of the company, it was forcibly aborted by Microsoft two weeks before a full term. Then Nokia took in Microsoft's then-newborn, inbred child, despite having been told beforehand that it was born with severe genetic problems and whom the doctors had already said would not live for more than a few months. This child drained all of Nokia's resources in the process, the excuse being that this had to happen to prepare for Microsoft's next child. Microsoft's next child turned into, well, nothing too special. And you wonder why Nokia's now broke and ultimately had to sell itself to Microsoft.

      What? Corporations are people, no?

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    11. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by X.25 · · Score: 2

      I don't know why everyone on slashdot has remained so deluded about Nokia's potential future had Elop not taken those actions. They were not competitive, and their prospects were poor.

      Their prospects are really great now.

    12. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's a very interesting claim, considering that I read the exact opposite in this very thread, but unlike you, this guy bothered to provide evidence of his assertion.

    13. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by timeOday · · Score: 1
      The answer to your question does NOT lie in trying to re-imagine what expectations may have been reasonable, in retrospect, now years later.

      Rather, look at the share price during Elop's tenure. And remember that the share price at the day he took over the helm already reflected everything that was known about their future prospects as of that moment. Anything that has changed since then has been under his watch. There is no doubt he would have been even more richly rewarded had he pulled off the improbable comeback. So it's no fair claiming $1M from a losing lottery ticket just because it was probably a loser in the first place, that's why you can buy one for only $1 in the first place.

    14. Re:It shoud have suprised no one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Siilasmaa is a founder of F-Secure and Linux doesn't need F-Secure. Enough said right there. Just wait for a Windows Mobile version of F-Secure...

    15. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by TemporalBeing · · Score: 5, Informative

      You missed a key fact: Elop took a good brand that now had only unwanted, aging products that could no longer compete, executed the most expensive failures, and sold the rest before the marketplace killed them completely.

      Funny how they were still selling quite a lot of them until Elop came around.

      Had he pumped hundreds of millions of dollars into Symbian, and tried to make a go of it based on an existing loyal fan base and lots of marketing, he would have ended up EXACTLY like Blackberry -- warehouses filled with unsold phones, flat broke, and completely irrelevant in the marketplace.

      FYI - All those Symbian devs and their Symbian apps had a migration path from Symbian to Maemo/MeeGo.

      Also Nokia didn't have the same issue BB had in having a central network that was essential to the platform and have a major crash that took weeks to fix and caused headaches for their customers. That is really why BB fell in market share - everyone was looking for something more reliable. BB10 is a great little platform, but they have a reputation they have to fix - something that takes a long time to do and they may not be able to recover from.

      At least with Microsoft owning them, they're not broke. I don't know why everyone on slashdot has remained so deluded about Nokia's potential future had Elop not taken those actions. They were not competitive, and their prospects were poor. If Symbian and Meego were as great as everyone here imagines, why weren't they crushing iPhones back in 2010?

      In 2010 MeeGo wasn't out. It was just about to be released when Elop wrote the "burning platform" memo; and during the presentation to the press he stood up on stage and said "We're not doing this; look I have another one running Windows Phone and that is our future" - intentially sabotaging it before it even hit market. Yet, as others have pointed out, with no marketing the MeeGo Phone outsold the Lumias wherever they were both sold in the same markets - and not by small margins - by 3:1 ratios. Every review of the MeeGo phones compared it to the iPhone; it would have been a killer - and at the very least a very strong third, leaving everyone else to fight for fourth - had it not been for Elop.

      --
      Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
    16. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by Warphammer · · Score: 1

      Whatever Nokia did was going to be a rough transition. Their market position had a good deal of S60 inertia behind it - app installed base and user familiarity and the like - that would've gone out the window no matter what the switch was to, Meego, Android or Windows Phone. It's hard to say that Nokia's killer hardware with Meego would've done much better - or worse - than what the Windows stuff did. I think it would've gone better but not great for them, personally. (having owned and enjoyed an E71, an N97 and an N800) That's the beauty of the memo, and the strategy. You can construct a plausible argument that Elop actually believed it and was acting in good faith. He wasn't, of course, but it'd be hard to prove that he didn't really believe WP7 was somehow the way to go.

    17. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by bondsbw · · Score: 1

      Maemo could easily have been adapted to run android apps as well and the capability was even commercially available before Elop took over. An android track at Nokia could have had a decent chance competing with Samsung. Having an OS that there are actually people who want would have put Nokia at least in a better position.

      Why go with Maemo when they could have just used Android itself? It would have been much faster to market.

      Also, if Maemo ran Android apps, then nobody would have developed natively for Maemo. They would have developed for Android and their apps would have been available to a much larger market.

      Nokia went with Windows Phone because Android is an extremely competitive market and Nokia wanted to stand apart. Laugh at the marketshare of Windows Phone all you want, but Nokia sells more Windows Phones than most manufacturers individually sell in Android phones.

      --
      All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
    18. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by alexander_686 · · Score: 2

      Expect it does not say what you think it says – this is it says:
                Motorola made sub-par phones and lost money.
                Motorola continued to make sub-par phones and switched to android and still loses money.
      Nowhere do we find proof that switching to android affected profits. (and personally I doubt you ever will.)

      What I find telling is the reference to HTC and it’s 98% loss of profits. If you pick android system you will be competing with every other android maker out there. When HTC found the sweet spot and made the best phone it raked in the money. When Sumsung found a new sweet spot it raked in the money and everybody else suffered.

      Of course you could always push your own OS which makes it harder for people to switch. If you got a winning product like Apple like is good – you can set your own pace. If you don’t you end up like RM’s Blackberry – a long slow but inevitable decline.

    19. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You missed a key fact: Elop took a good brand that now had only unwanted, aging products that could no longer compete, executed the most expensive failures, and sold the rest before the marketplace killed them completely.

      Had he pumped hundreds of millions of dollars into Symbian, and tried to make a go of it based on an existing loyal fan base and lots of marketing, he would have ended up EXACTLY like Blackberry -- warehouses filled with unsold phones, flat broke, and completely irrelevant in the marketplace. At least with Microsoft owning them, they're not broke.

      I don't know why everyone on slashdot has remained so deluded about Nokia's potential future had Elop not taken those actions. They were not competitive, and their prospects were poor. If Symbian and Meego were as great as everyone here imagines, why weren't they crushing iPhones back in 2010?

      This is a false dichotomy: NOBODY is saying that Nokia should have "pumped hudreds of millions of dollars into Symbian". What we are saying is that Elop shouldn't have killed
      - Symbian, which was still selling, by telling everyone and his dog that the platform is done, and developers should better look for greener pastures. Also, killed the Ovi application store.
      - Maemo, which was selling really well, in spite of NO ADS WHATSOEVER!

      Even IF you want Nokia to move to WP, you don't kill what is currently selling!

    20. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by 21mhz · · Score: 2, Informative

      Just before the first Meego phone (N900) launched, Elop took over. It was killed without even given a chance. To answer your question, that is why Meego never competed with Android and the iOS.

      Huh? The N900 was released in 2009. The N9 program was launched some time before that, and the device was released, after all, in late 2011.

      Right as Elop took over, Nokia took a 180 turn away from Meego. They spent 3, 4 years completely redeveloping their processes, completely revamping their developers, wasting countless resources that were Meego-based, just so they could put Windows Phone on their hardware.

      What alternative timeline you live in? The turn was announced on February 2011. The first Lumia was released in November the same year.

      --
      My exception safety is -fno-exceptions.
    21. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by TeknoHog · · Score: 2

      Maemo could easily have been adapted to run android apps

      It may be a little late, but this is exactly what Jolla has done. Perhaps Nokia will buy them back as the real smartphone division now that the crud has eloped to Redmond.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    22. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by TeknoHog · · Score: 3, Informative

      Just before the first Meego phone (N900) launched, Elop took over. It was killed without even given a chance. To answer your question, that is why Meego never competed with Android and the iOS.

      Huh? The N900 was released in 2009. The N9 program was launched some time before that, and the device was released, after all, in late 2011.

      Also, the N900 runs Maemo which has nothing to do with Intel. Nokia had a line of Maemo tablets since 2005, and N900 was the last of these, finally allowed to include full phone capabilities.

      Meego was intended as a merger of Maemo and Intel's Moblin, but it never really appeared anywhere (N9 is pretty much Maemo), and I'm not sure how exactly it was supposed to improve on Maemo. The name is not important, though, it's the idea of a regular GNU/Linux distro running on your phone. Which is why you can pry my N900 from my cold, dead hands, as long as you avoid stepping on my lawn.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    23. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There was a migration path: S60 ->Qt in S60->Qt in Meego

    24. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by jbolden · · Score: 1

      The share price when he took over reflected a successful MeeGo project about to go live which would convert a large chunk of the Symbian userbase. By the time Elop arrived that was known not to be true. Arguably the reason Elop was hired was because the board knew that wasn't true.

    25. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by jbolden · · Score: 1

      They paid off Nokia's restructuring costs generated an extra two in cash beyond that and then another $7b. Yeah that was successful.

    26. Re:It shoud have suprised no one by hairyfeet · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Riiiight, he and the board risked millions in fines and prison time all so they could tank the company in the HOPES that MSFT would buy them and not just wait until they collapsed and buy the best pieces...I have a bridge you may be interested in BTW.

      Look its REALLY simple, okay? The board fucked up and let there end up not one, not two, but THREE different OSes, none of which could compete with iOS and Android. There best hope MeeGo/MaeMo was being actively sabotaged by both Symbian on the inside and Intel on the outside, and being the #1 dumbphone maker in this day and age of free Android phones from even the prepaid bunches was about as useful as being the biggest 8-track maker in 1987. So Elop was brought in to do the dirty work, kill the no longer update-able Symbian and to throw a Hail Mary pass and hope to gain some ground and...it failed.

      so I'm sorry but they really didn't have any other option, they really didn't thanks to the board sitting on ass too long, a repeat of Palm. Ironically the best bet would have been WebOS but HP was willing to pay insane-o money for it so it was off the table, and Android is a shark tank that is in a race to the bottom. While Nokia can make dirt cheap dumbphones they have NOT shown the ability to repeat that in smartphones and there is no way in hell they would have been able to fight Samsung,HTC, and Huawei toe to toe, no way. All that was left was a Hail mary, hence the "burning platform" but there is a REASON why they call it a Hail Mary because it has but a slim prayer of working. If it would have worked I''m sure the Googleites here would be screaming how "It was all Ballmer's plan to take over Nokia!" so damned if you do, damned if you don't. Would you have rather he broke up the company and sold it like a corporate raider, like is what is likely to be the fate of BB?

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    27. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by 21mhz · · Score: 1

      Funny how they were still selling quite a lot of them until Elop came around.

      And RIM were selling quite a lot of Blackberries until it was too late.

      FYI - All those Symbian devs and their Symbian apps had a migration path from Symbian to Maemo/MeeGo.

      That's what the powerpoint said. In practice, there were... issues.

      Also Nokia didn't have the same issue BB had in having a central network that was essential to the platform and have a major crash that took weeks to fix and caused headaches for their customers.

      Nokia had another issue: being the company that allowed the N97 to be released. That was in 2009, years after iPhone was on the market. All that happened after was, in essence, karmic justice.

      In 2010 MeeGo wasn't out. It was just about to be released when Elop wrote the "burning platform" memo; and during the presentation to the press he stood up on stage and said "We're not doing this; look I have another one running Windows Phone and that is our future" - intentially sabotaging it before it even hit market.

      Your time window for "just about to be released" must stretch for half a year.
      And, I'm afraid, your description of a presentation has no basis in documented reality. It was known since February that Nokia is pivoting towards Windows Phone and everybody knew that the N9 was a dead end. Moreover, it wasn't ever meant to be a proper MeeGo device. It was fucked up by internal politics long before Elop came on stage.

      Yet, as others have pointed out, with no marketing the MeeGo Phone outsold the Lumias wherever they were both sold in the same markets - and not by small margins - by 3:1 ratios.

      I'm sorry to see you believe in a myth with no credible evidence whatsoever.

      --
      My exception safety is -fno-exceptions.
    28. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by exomondo · · Score: 1

      Maemo could easily have been adapted to run android apps as well and the capability was even commercially available before Elop took over.

      The problem with that is the OHA, they were working on a non-Android operating system with Android compatibility and we saw from the fiasco with Aliyun OS that even supporting such an OS can get you booted from the OHA so most certainly Nokia wouldn't be involved in the Android development process which means they would have to wait until the source code was actually released in order to even start updating their Android compatibility system. They would always be behind with that methodology.

    29. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please, the figures are on record. Nokia shares dropped 75% between September 2007 and September 2010, when Elop took over. In the following 3 years, they only fell 40%. By that metric, Elop actually *improved* their performance.

    30. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Looks like it was a typo or just a confusion over names - rename the N900 to N9 above and everything is correct.

    31. Re:It shoud have suprised no one by dbIII · · Score: 2

      Riiiight, he and the board risked millions in fines and prison time

      How often does that happen with such a multinational situation? Can you find one example?

    32. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by Gr8Apes · · Score: 0

      Laugh at the marketshare of Windows Phone all you want, but Nokia sells more Windows Phones than most manufacturers individually sell in Android phones.

      Really, care to share some numbers? Seems like the Lumia sold so well they discontinued it 2 months after release.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    33. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by rtb61 · · Score: 2

      Which begs the question, why exactly did they hire Elop. What influence with the board of Nokia did M$ already have, what did it cost to get the Nokia board to basically set up Nokia for sale to M$ at a substantive discount, what commissions did the board receive. Now that Nokia has been crippled, has M$ shot itself in the foot because there will be no real recovery from collapse and continuing down the same path will simply result in greater loss of value.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    34. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by DeSigna · · Score: 1

      Really, care to share some numbers? Seems like the Lumia sold so well they discontinued it 2 months after release.

      I'm trying to find which Lumia you're talking about and I can't. The closest I can get is the 810, which was discontinued after about 6 months (still pretty short), presumably to make way for the 1020.

      Say what you want about the phones, everyone I know who's purchased a Windows Phone has liked it and most of those are Lumias. Admittedly, there's not a lot of people I know who have WinPhones.

      Considering that every phone I've purchased for myself has been a Nokia (still on an old N8), I'm seriously considering a Lumia myself. My work phone is an iPhone so I'm not keen on having 2 of them competing for which battery runs down first.

      If anyone would've suggested to me that WP would've been an option a couple of years back they'd have been crowned the world's greatest comedian.

    35. Re:It shoud have suprised no one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    36. Re:It shoud have suprised no one by dbIII · · Score: 1

      That situation was nothing at all like it, as I well know from being in Australia at the time. Do you really know so little about what you linked or are you bluffing for some stupid reason? Also do you really think such an Australia situation applies in the USA or Finland where the corporate laws are far less strict? Obviously not - so what is your motivation for this nasty bit of distraction?

    37. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by recoiledsnake · · Score: 1
      --
      This space for rent.
    38. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which begs the question, why exactly did they hire Elop.

      Because this is what Nokia wanted, they even put a clause in the damn contract offering a huge reward if he could make it happen!

    39. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by casab1anca · · Score: 1

      Nokia sold 7.4 million Lumias in Q2 2013, Samsung sold about 10 times as many Android phones, but most other Android manufacturers (and there are dozens of them) sold way less than either of the above.

      And no Lumia phone was discontinued after 2 months -- perhaps you're thinking about the Facebook phone?

    40. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by hweimer · · Score: 1

      Why go with Maemo when they could have just used Android itself? It would have been much faster to market.

      Err, Nokia already had Maemo/Meego devices on the shelves. The decision to withhold their flagship device, the N9, from all major markets came directly from Elop.

      Also, if Maemo ran Android apps, then nobody would have developed natively for Maemo. They would have developed for Android and their apps would have been available to a much larger market.

      Ah, the good old OS/2 argument. I'm not convinced that it holds here. Technically speaking, Android is inferior to Meego as the latter provides a full-blown POSIX environment, for which many software packages and libraries are already available. Take LibreOffice, for instance. No usable Android port in sight, but packages for Maemo/Meego have been available for a long time. And it would have been a *huge* selling point for Nokia's devices if the had come with a full-blown office suite.

      --
      OS Reviews: Free and Open Source Software
    41. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by chris.alex.thomas · · Score: 2

      jesus humping stupid christ, listen POSIX fanbois.....here is something important for you to listen to:

      nobody in the real world cares whether your phones operating system is POSIX compliant, apart from some developers, nobody else....my mother doesn't care, neither do I and I am a developer.

      what I want is a system that works, I couldnt care less whether it's POSIX compliant or not, I just want it to be usable and useful. If I got that from a system which was not POSIX compliant, I would still be happy because my goal is not to be POSIX compliant, my goal is to make a cool app and maybe sell it.

      POSIX compliance doesn't guarantee that and doesn't actually help me reach that goal any better than not being POSIX compliant....

      so can you please don't rambling on about shit practically nobody cares about....

      android is practically smashing down the front door as the default linux environment on the planet and it eschews the linux system for an application layer on top of the system, so much for POSIX compliance being a winning strategy, linux is what, 5% total consumer market share?

      yeah, keep holding onto those old fashioned values....they are working out GREAT!!!

      oh and btw, you're full of shit, a full blown office suite on a mobile phone is an awful idea and wouldn't have sold anymore phones, having angry birds preloaded however would have easily doubled the sales....also, libreoffice? the office application that still looks like office 97? yeah....errrrr.....you're a fucking fruitcake if you think that's going to impress anybody...

    42. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by Sockatume · · Score: 1

      Symbian sales numbers were up, but that was because Nokia was rolling it down to their low end handsets. Meanwhile their high end phones were just not selling. They were making a lot less profit per phone, and their financials were absolutely in the toilet as a result.

      --
      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    43. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by bfandreas · · Score: 1

      Maemo wasn't multi-touch capable. Which was a very big deal back then. In fact it already was a big deal when they started working on it. Nokia simply came too late. After the iPhone became a success they didn't immediately and wholeheartedly upgrade/change their platforms. Maemo was deficient in many aspects, lacked direction and was too late. It would have been revolutionary 5-10 years before. But then it was simply a geeky tech demo. I watched every demonstration video they had. And when I finally gave up my disgust and had somebody show me an actual iPhone I realized that Nokia was doomed.
      We had been saying that Nokia was in decline while they still made a killing with feature phones in emerging markets. Their problem was that the company was deeply dysfunctional on a middle-management level and they were already very dead when Elop took over.

      I would take the downfall of Nokia as a cautionary tale about market leaders who spend 10 years not taking risks and not watching if its corporate structure and culture are productive. At one point they could have easily shoveled hundreds of millions into some new and shiny before or after the .com crash but they played it safe and let the corporate culture of warring tribes continue without showing that doing so would be benefitial. Inertia as a motivation kills.


      Elop was quite right in his warring plattforms memo.

      --
      20 minutes into the future
    44. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by higuita · · Score: 1

      what you don't understand is that the "POSIX compliant" is just a way to say "we can run almost any software that already exists in linux and other *nix"... so instead of a several hundred or android apps, people could run thousand of *nix apps, for whatever they wanted to do (be IRC and other chats, games, office, web, movies, etc). Porting from a "POSIX compliant" to another "POSIX compliant" is easy than rebuilding on a totally new stack. Most of the apps than run on Meego where almost just tuned to use the existent libraries and had GUI changes, to improve usability on touch screen...
      the concept works, look what the canonical wanted to do with their phone. a great way to extend your computer to a tablet, to a phone. that doesn't mean that you would run a full libreoffice in a phone, but you could view any file and do small changes... connect to a desktop, and jump from the "lightoffice" to the libreoffice.

      your problem with libreoffice is the look of it? that says a lot on what are your priorities...

      --
      Higuita
    45. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      FYI - iOS 7 fixes the battery drain issue. Turns out a whole lot of apps like to run in the background. iOS7 allows you to disable this ability. I easily get 3 days of use out of my phone now between charges whereas before it was always 1 day or less. Google's Maps app is an especially power hungry hog, since it accesses both location data and the network, and appears to do so quite often even in the background. That one can run your phone down in standby in just a few hours.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    46. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by 21mhz · · Score: 1

      Nah, it's still alternative history.

      --
      My exception safety is -fno-exceptions.
    47. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by chris.alex.thomas · · Score: 1

      No, I do understand what POSIX compliance means and largely, it has it's uses, but it's not a selling point, it's not a reason to buy, nobody cares if it says it on the back of the cardboard box, it's not a reason to shout from the top of a building about how great a product is. The OP's reasoning was that the android was inferior because it Meego provides a POSIX environment, well....sorry, but androids API's are quite nice and more concrete than your typical linux distribution, so it's actually a more superior development environment because it provides a standard environment which all must support and nothing less will do.

      Lots of API's are built without POSIX compliance, look at windows. So it's not a reason to buy and you can do without it, just that programmers are so focused on their things they forget what people want, which is something that works and works well and POSIX doesn't enter that equation.

      The problem with libreoffice is not just the way it looks, but also the fact that it's not very well organised and some of the functionality doesn't work very fluidly. it's basically a poor mans microsoft office and it will always be that until somebody starts to care about the presentation.

      Because of course.....presenting documents is what a word processor should be good at, if it's not very good at presenting a document and making it easy to do your work, then it's not doing it's job properly. A word processor isn't just about how good the code quality is, thats how a programmer thinks and probably the reason why a lot of open source programs aren't very successful. Code quality is not all, it matters the packaging too.

    48. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by TemporalBeing · · Score: 1

      Funny how they were still selling quite a lot of them until Elop came around.

      And RIM were selling quite a lot of Blackberries until it was too late.

      My point was that comparing RIM/BB and Nokia is not valid - its an apples-to-oranges comparison.

      Nokia is where it is today because of Elop and numerous things he did as CEO - from declaring symbian/meego/maemo dead and their move to WP. Prior to all of that Nokia was relatively healthy and in a good position to make a transition; after those things they were not. Please take off your revisionist history glasses.

      RIM/BB is where they are because they had a technical failure in their network that severely hurt their customers. Up to that point in time, they were doing extremely well. When that occurred, people realized how tied their own communications were to RIM/BB itself. I don't think people realized how centralized the RIM/BB network was until then.

      FYI - All those Symbian devs and their Symbian apps had a migration path from Symbian to Maemo/MeeGo.

      That's what the powerpoint said. In practice, there were... issues.

      Please share what inside information you have? Having participated in the Qt mailing lists at that time ( and I still do ) there was quite a lot going on. Qt for Symbian was doing well, and people were doing Qt for various platforms - including Symbian - and recompiling to go between them. Not saying everything was perfect or that they weren't fully ready to push it out migration wise, but it was something they had - unlike the complete and utter drop of all their partners, app developers, etc for the move to WP. (I would actually have been quite surprised if it was 100% perfect.)

      Also Nokia didn't have the same issue BB had in having a central network that was essential to the platform and have a major crash that took weeks to fix and caused headaches for their customers.

      Nokia had another issue: being the company that allowed the N97 to be released. That was in 2009, years after iPhone was on the market. All that happened after was, in essence, karmic justice.

      So what? N97 was not the N900.

      The N900 is what Elop completely killed before it was released, and outsold Lumias without any issue; it was a very high demand phone that Nokia under Elop decided they would only do a limited number of because they were doing WP instead of MeeGo/Maemo.

      In 2010 MeeGo wasn't out. It was just about to be released when Elop wrote the "burning platform" memo; and during the presentation to the press he stood up on stage and said "We're not doing this; look I have another one running Windows Phone and that is our future" - intentially sabotaging it before it even hit market.

      Your time window for "just about to be released" must stretch for half a year.

      The N900 was originally released with Maemo5 (presented Sept 2009, released Nov 2009), and later released with MeeGo (May 2010). Just prior to its MeeGo release, Elop did exactly as I noted.

      And, I'm afraid, your description of a presentation has no basis in documented reality. It was known since February that Nokia is pivoting towards Windows Phone and everybody knew that the N9 was a dead end. Moreover, it wasn't ever meant to be a proper MeeGo device. It was fucked up by internal politics long before Elop came on stage.

      Please share your inside information.

      Yet, as others have pointed out, with no marketing the MeeGo Phone outsold the Lumias wherever they were both sold in the same markets - and not by small margins - by 3:1 ratios.

      I'm sorry to see you believe in a myth with no credible evidence whatsoever.

      What myth? It's in numerous sources backed up by financials and information from Nokia itself.

      --
      Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
    49. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Searay was originally intended to be a cut-down version of Lankku (N9) for the Chinese Market (5MP Camera, No Penta-Band UMTS, No NFC, No N-Wifi, Bluetooth 3, rather than Bluetooth 4, 512MB RAM Rather than 1024GB, slower processor (yet higher clock speed). The only thing shared between Lankku and Searay was the external case shape, battery and AMOLED pentile display. (Yes, at one point the N9 had a shutter release button in design proposals)

      Due to the Qualcomm underpinnings, it was relatively trivial to have Windows Phone 7 running on the device. I think if Searay weren't already in development Windows Phone may well have not been an option for Nokia. Creating a new phone from scratch using a new chipset would have taken at least 6 months for Nokia. Which would have totally destroyed any remaining confidence in Nokia recovering. They may of course, just have put a Nokia badge on some ODM handset, but that wouldn't exactly be a Nokia. (Look at their CDMA efforts in prior years).

    50. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by 21mhz · · Score: 1

      (Sigh) Please read this. Keep close attention to the dates and how each device is named. I hope it will help to remove a lot of confusion from your postings. As someone who was in on the events described, I can attest that the article is mostly correct.

      What myth? It's in numerous sources backed up by financials and information from Nokia itself.

      Continuation of this discussion would require you to provide the sources.

      --
      My exception safety is -fno-exceptions.
    51. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by 21mhz · · Score: 1

      I'm a bit suspicious about that. Almost every smartphone upstart these days claims ability to run Android apps, and in the end it comes to very little.

      Please realize it's not just Dalvik emulation that you need to do to make an Android application work. There is a whole lot of services and intent handlers that an app may rely upon, many of them digging into system internals, most of them are not under AOSP. These need to be implemented compatibly on an alien platform, basically from scratch. So, it's a major effort to undertake, in addition to your platform development. And there will inevitably be a long tail of apps that just don't work because you missed some little detail, or bug-for-bug compatibility.

      Has anyone actually tried those myriad Android apps that were claimed to be ported to Blackberry OS 10?

      --
      My exception safety is -fno-exceptions.
    52. Re: It shoud have suprised no one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So what, considering that you can still buy buy Android 2.3 handsets?

    53. Re:It shoud have suprised no one by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      I don't care how less strict corporate laws are, if they were rigging the company to tank so they could sell it at a lower price that would be plain old fraud and larceny, pure and simple.

      But if you want to see why Elop HAD to be brought in I do have evidence to back my claims, just look at the history of MeeGo, written with help from insiders at Nokia, to see what a toxic culture Nokia had become. You had the Symbian team actively sabotaging MeeGo because they thought it was a threat to their turf and their "partner" in Intel was likewise crippling the OS to keep the ARM version from coming about before they had an X86 phone.

      So they really had no choice, they needed an outsider to come in and do the dirty work of killing Symbian and stopping the money pit that was MeeGo which thanks to the Symbian team and Intel was never gonna be completed in time and by getting a complete OS from MSFT they could concentrate on the hardware costs and trying to make a competitive smartphone. yes it failed but that is what happens when you have a board that refuses to innovate and sits on ass for too long, just look at what happened with palm.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
  2. Funny/Not Funny by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "So here’s what we’re going to do: first, I’m going to spend a lot of time publicly denigrating Symbian, even though we continue to sell millions of phones equipped with that operating system. That’s what successful CEOs do—insult their core product, even if it commands a healthy percentage of the world market. Then I’m going to chuck the software in favor of Microsoft’s Windows Phone, which has negligible market-share. By “chuck it,” I mean exactly that: a dwindling pipeline of new phones, and no assurance for anyone who’s supported the ecosystem that we’ll continue to meet their needs for the foreseeable future. Why, people won’t be angry about that at all! Trust me, our market-share won’t collapse in record time, and nor will our stock price. I don’t have any reason to see the stock price fall, believe me."

    It'd be funny if it weren't true, and costing a whole lot of people their jobs in the long run.

  3. How To Accomplish The "Elop Effect" by Freshly+Exhumed · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Tomi Ahonen has the formula down perfectly, with explanations:

    ELOP EFFECT = RATNER EFFECT + OSBORNE EFFECT

    http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2013/09/the-do-it-yourself-elop-analysis.html

    --
    I deny that I have not avoided attaining the opposite of that which I do not want.
    1. Re:How To Accomplish The "Elop Effect" by Anonymous+Howard · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yeah, but Tomi Ahonen is a moron. This is the same guy who claimed that Symbian was clearly the best mobile smartphone OS and would crush iOS & Android if only given a chance. Riiight....

      http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2013/02/nokia-misery-in-single-pictures-today-part-8-in-series-the-elop-strategy-to-go-windows-from-feb-11-2.html

      --
      - I wanted to call myself Anonymous Coward, but that name was already taken by somebody :-(
    2. Re:How To Accomplish The "Elop Effect" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even a broken clock is right once a day...

    3. Re:How To Accomplish The "Elop Effect" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even a broken clock is right once a day...

      Ah. So you're saying that if we take the time to check what time it is BEFORE consulting the broken clock AND if the broken clock is checked during the time when the 1/1440 odds of it being correct match up (okay, 1/770 for a 12-hour clock), we should give all credit to the broken clock and trust it implicitly from now own, no matter how many times it was wrong in the past?

    4. Re:How To Accomplish The "Elop Effect" by Freshly+Exhumed · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah, but Tomi Ahonen is a moron.

      Ah yes, good 'ol character assassination is alive and well here. Never mind the accolades Ahonen has received over the years, nor his lectures at Oxford, nor his authoritative books, nor his amazingly accurate record of predictions in the Mobile Phone industry, year after year, nor his personal network of staffers at almost every Mobile Phone company and provider in the world... nor how many times he made other supposed expert analysts look like fools (ZDnet, Howard Forums, etc. etc.)

      --
      I deny that I have not avoided attaining the opposite of that which I do not want.
    5. Re:How To Accomplish The "Elop Effect" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pedant.

    6. Re:How To Accomplish The "Elop Effect" by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      Even a broken clock is right once a day...

      Ah. So you're saying that if we take the time to check what time it is BEFORE consulting the broken clock AND if the broken clock is checked during the time when the 1/1440 odds of it being correct match up (okay, 1/770 for a 12-hour clock), we should give all credit to the broken clock and trust it implicitly from now own, no matter how many times it was wrong in the past?

      I always took that saying to mean "If you disagree with everything a moron says because he's a moron, you're gonna look goofy in the unlikely event he turns out to be speaking the truth." This gives the moron interesting leverage; he can cause you to be discredited by speaking an obviously true thing and watching you automatically contest it.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    7. Re:How To Accomplish The "Elop Effect" by Tom · · Score: 1

      That was an interesting read, thanks.

      Also, the comments are insightful. True, the whole thing did have one other effect that is barely noticed: It killed the last big smartphone OS that was not developed by a US company.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    8. Re:How To Accomplish The "Elop Effect" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, but Tomi Ahonen is a moron.

      Hey Mr. Elop - staying up late, huh? Still not used to the Finnish time zone?

    9. Re:How To Accomplish The "Elop Effect" by 21mhz · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Never mind the accolades Ahonen has received over the years, nor his lectures at Oxford, nor his authoritative books, nor his amazingly accurate record of predictions in the Mobile Phone industry, year after year, nor his personal network of staffers at almost every Mobile Phone company and provider in the world... nor how many times he made other supposed expert analysts look like fools (ZDnet, Howard Forums, etc. etc.)

      Never mind that, because very little of it is actually true.
      For the record of his predictions, here's one.
      Sorry, but Tomi is really a tedious moron who passes himself off as an expert to gullible people.

      --
      My exception safety is -fno-exceptions.
    10. Re:How To Accomplish The "Elop Effect" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Character assassination is infantile, really.

    11. Re:How To Accomplish The "Elop Effect" by Freshly+Exhumed · · Score: 1

      Rrrrrriiiiiiiiiight. You can claim that Tomi Ahonen is a moron all you like, but it doesn't reflect well upon your discernment.

      --
      I deny that I have not avoided attaining the opposite of that which I do not want.
  4. "Burning Platform" by gQuigs · · Score: 1

    Anyone else think it was going to be a revision for where they are today? On the burning platform that is Windows Phone...

    Seriously, I think they are a recoverable company. They gave Elop three years to destroy them... Why not give me three years?

    1. Re:"Burning Platform" by h4rr4r · · Score: 4, Funny

      Because you don't have the money to buy the company, nor are you friends with their friends.

      I would have driven their company into the ground for a mere fraction of what Elop was paid or squandered. Yet, they never called me.

    2. Re:"Burning Platform" by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      Shit, if they'd offered me 250k a year to sit on my butt and do nothing I'd have gladly accepted.

      Having said that, there's a chance that without my expert oversight they might have got their act together by either their own ability or pure dumb luck.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    3. Re:"Burning Platform" by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      I would have driven their company into the ground for a mere fraction of what Elop was paid or squandered. Yet, they never called me.

      100000000000000000000000000000000000000000/1 is a fraction. $\forall x \in \N: x \in \Q$

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    4. Re:"Burning Platform" by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      > Anyone else think it was going to be a revision for where they are today? On the burning platform that is Windows Phone...

      Well, yeah, but for that they wouldn't have to change the presentation hardly at all, and it wouldn't have been as funny.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    5. Re:"Burning Platform" by twmcneil · · Score: 1

      Nothing personal, but I'm not certain that you could have done such a complete and utterly devastating job of running Nokia into the ground. I mean, that was one hell of a company with some outstanding potential. It takes a lot of real talent to ruin something so perfectly.

      --
      "The ferrets, they're every where I tell you!"
  5. fun right back by gbjbaanb · · Score: 5, Interesting

    What would be funny is if....

    shareholders launched a court battle to prevent the takeover, and claim compensation and/or charges against Elop and while that dragged through the courts for years (as they do) the new CEO decided that actually, Windows phone isn't the profit thing he wants and changes the OS platform to Android across the board of Lumia phones, dropping Windows Phone completely.

    Years later when the courts finally decide that "meh" is the answer to the charges, Microsoft can go ahead with the purchase for the manufacturing arm, if they still wanted to, and Elop could then find a new job - as I doubt even Microsoft would appoint him as CEO whilst he was fighting an active court case.

    Could happen? hehehe. and you never know, Nokia could turn things around like Samsung did with Android.

    (and yes, they could do Meego, but frankly this isn't about making a success of the company for Microsoft's benefit..)

    1. Re:fun right back by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Elop could then find a new job

      Elop is already back at Microsoft employed in his new job.

  6. Nokia were about to switch to Android by edxwelch · · Score: 4, Informative

    On a related note there is a rumour that Nokia were about to switch to Android just before the buyout.
    http://ibnlive.in.com/news/nokia-reportedly-considered-switching-to-android-before-microsoft-deal/421972-11.html

    This leads some analysts to speculate that Microsoft bought Nokia to save Windows phone:
    http://www.valuewalk.com/2013/09/microsoft-bought-nokia-to-save-windows-phone/

    1. Re:Nokia were about to switch to Android by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      If that's true, then Elop certainly earned his money.

      Selling a failing cell phone company purely on a bluff...Like another Android phone company would matter. One less windows phone company on the other hand, is kind of a big deal.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    2. Re:Nokia were about to switch to Android by gutnor · · Score: 1

      More like Nokia was out of steam and looking for a buyer. If Microsoft didn't buy it they could have ended up being bought by somebody less sympathetic to Windows Phone leaving MS in a seriously bad spot on the mobile market.

      No need for rumor. It was either buy Nokia and keep some chance of fighting against Apple, Samsung, Google or quit the mobile market.

  7. How do we fix this? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This is just situation normal: Disaster capital in the shape of corporate raiders sees something with value, figures, "How can I use this to make ME rich?" and comes up with a scheme to slash and burn a maximum payday in the shortest amount of time they can manage it.

    The real question is how do you find, reward and control management so that it isn't looking for the opportunity to perform slash and burn treasure-hunting in the carcass of your dying company? Is there a way? Can a co-operative business structure (ownership by the bottom-rank employees) work or is that still too vulnerable to adversarial management?

    1. Re:How do we fix this? by HornWumpus · · Score: 2

      You want perpetually dying 'zombie' companies? Brains...er...breakeven...must...fund...retirements.

      Better to put them out of their misery then leave them as millstones around an economies neck. Look at England in the '60s and 70s. Perpetual breakeven...nationalization...misery.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    2. Re:How do we fix this? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      So the biggest seller of phones on the planet was a 'zombie' company?
      What exactly is your motivation in rewriting history to the opposite of reality?

    3. Re:How do we fix this? by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      The biggest seller of obsolete phones.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    4. Re:How do we fix this? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      The biggest seller of phones that were selling. for example Microsoft have happily been selling stuff with an obsolete file system for well over a decade after planning to replace it - but it does the job and people are buying the software. Similarly even last quarter Nokia were selling more phones with an obsolete symbian OS installed than Apple sold in total.

      Of course you know all this but are playing some silly mass debate game where reality doesn't matter and you just want to get a reaction out of people.
      Well, I've taken the bait, so you've won, and now that you've won could you please stop posting revisionist crap here and go mass debate with yourself instead.

  8. Who gives a shit? by Wee · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Seriously. You have stock in Nokia or something? Because nobody fucking cares about your "updated" memo. And if they do, they should stop caring and get out more often.

    -B

    --

    Ash and Hickory, straight-grained and true, make excellent bludgeons, dandy for the cudgeling of vegetarians.

    1. Re:Who gives a shit? by nullchar · · Score: 2

      Um, lots of people liked Nokia phones and platforms before they switched to Windows Phone. Similarly, people liked Blackberry devices and would have continued buying them had RIM not stalled out for a few years letting iOS and Android devices eclipse them.

      We might as well have a laugh at failed tech companies to soothe our sadness. (I'm still sad about Oracle swallowing Sun.)

    2. Re:Who gives a shit? by Arker · · Score: 2

      Actually you should read the memo before you spout off. It's pretty funny. Sad that it's true though.

      --
      =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
      Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
    3. Re:Who gives a shit? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I kind of agree. It's greedy, but so what? Most upper-management corporate scumbags are just as greedy, if not moreso. And this doesn't really inform anything actually related to Nokia or Microsoft. It could just as well be the CEO of McDonalds. The relationship to "news for nerds" is tenuous at best.

    4. Re:Who gives a shit? by turgid · · Score: 1

      (I'm still sad about Oracle swallowing Sun.)

      At least IBM didn't get their filthy hands on them.

  9. Why did this make the front page? by khb · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'd expected something funny or at least insightful.

    Sadly it seems neither.

    But then neither is the actual situation. It is sad to see Nokia essentially go (yes, the corporation lives on, but without what had become the heart). And it is hard to see how there is an upside for Microsoft in this. A lose-lose, with bad actors taking home lots of cash.

    Oh well, perhaps someday someone will turn it into a great play. It has all the seeds of a classic Greek tragedy (Hubris, fate, etc.)

    1. Re:Why did this make the front page? by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Never ascribe to hubris and fate that which can be attributed to incompetence and greed.

    2. Re:Why did this make the front page? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd expected something funny or at least insightful.

      Sadly it seems neither.

      Agree. I enjoy a good parody as well as anyone, especially at the expense of a CEO making a pile of dough for falling on his butt (falling forward on his butt that is).

      However this was not clever. It was the caliber of a sarcastic Slashdot post created in the heat of the moment.

  10. it's a free market by stenvar · · Score: 2

    Elop took over, Nokia stock fell, and anybody with half a brain didn't lose too much. Any reasonably smart Nokia employee would also have seen the writing on the wall and left the sinking ship. Microsoft can now acquire a mostly useless shell of a company at a low price, and they are getting their money's worth. The capital that Nokia lost went to other companies that can make better use of it. That's the way markets work. I don't think it's a big deal either way.

    Incidentally, switching to Android "after late 2014" would have been too late for Nokia anyway.

    1. Re:it's a free market by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which patents were included in the deal? None? A lot of them? Those are what I am afraid of. I won't give up hating MS until the company is no more because of what they have done in the past.

    2. Re:it's a free market by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Elop took over, Nokia stock fell, and anybody with half a brain didn't lose too much.

      Smart people must've bought put options and made money of the misery.

    3. Re:it's a free market by Warphammer · · Score: 2

      If I remember right, it's MUCH worse than MS getting the patents. Nokia keeps the patents, licenses them to MS, and has a warchest of billions to go help their friends Microsoft with suits from their patent portfolio, without the encumbrance of all the cross-licensing MS has done. It has the look of Nokia now being a supersized turbo SCO with enough of a warchest that you can't stop them by merely running them out of money. The extent to which Nokia has been destroyed as a company, then turned into a marketing vehicle for the otherwise worthless Windows Phone, and now into *both* a captive hardware unit and possibly the biggest 'independant' mobile patent weapon ever... It's just stunning. And the board just let it happen.

    4. Re:it's a free market by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who is "they"? Most of the Microsoft millionaires and billionaires who got rich of their crooked business tactics have left the company. The stock holders are a different group. And the company itself is suffering, precisely because a monopoly on software achieved by angering their customers is not a good long-term business strategy. Besides, as far as abusive monopolies go, I think AT&T and IBM have done far more damage.

    5. Re:it's a free market by recoiledsnake · · Score: 1

      And the board just let it happen.

      Huh, Nokia's shareholder benefit from patent licensing, why would the board be against that?

      --
      This space for rent.
    6. Re:it's a free market by hweimer · · Score: 1

      Any reasonably smart Nokia employee would also have seen the writing on the wall and left the sinking ship.

      Given the fact that Nokia's revenue used to be more than 10% of Finland's GDP, it might not have been so easy for a large number of Nokia's engineers to move to different jobs at about the same time ...

      --
      OS Reviews: Free and Open Source Software
    7. Re:it's a free market by stenvar · · Score: 1

      Finland is part of the EU; they can move anywhere freely.

    8. Re:it's a free market by Warphammer · · Score: 1

      It's the 'destroy the company' part they shoud've objected to. You can be a patent jerk while actually having a working hardware unit - heck, it helps you not look like an actual patent troll.

  11. They can't do MeeGo anymore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They've sold off MeeGo's crown jewels, Qt. Now Qt is powering the direct competition, from Jolla to Android, iOS and even WP.

    1. Re:They can't do MeeGo anymore by Arker · · Score: 1

      You say that like it's a bad thing.

      It will just mean that there are more existing apps that can be easily ported.

      --
      =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
      Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
    2. Re:They can't do MeeGo anymore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not. In retrospect I might be thankful for what Elop did. I've preordered the Jolla, run KDE on the desktop and have a general interest in Qt/QtQuick. Those all got better (or even exists) thanks to Elop. The only real downside, for me, is the lack of support for my Nokia N9.

    3. Re:They can't do MeeGo anymore by TemporalBeing · · Score: 2

      They've sold off MeeGo's crown jewels, Qt. Now Qt is powering the direct competition, from Jolla to Android, iOS and even WP.

      Sure they could. They don't have to control Qt to do MeeGo - they could just buy back Jolla and what MeeGo became - SailfishOS.

      --
      Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)
  12. This should not be a surprise by sl4shd0rk · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't know why anyone is upset about this. It shouldn't be a surprise. Tech history is littered with the remains of corporate entities who once partnered with Microsoft. What part of "Embrace, Extend and Extinguish" did Nokia think did not apply to them?

    --
    Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
    1. Re:This should not be a surprise by recoiledsnake · · Score: 1

      Or perhaps, the mobile business is a very stinky place to be in right now, if you're not Apple, Samsung or a cheap Chinese OEM.

      Between iPhone at the high end and Chinese OEMs at the low end, and Samsung in the middle, every other company is suffering.

      Motorola switched to Android and is increasing it's losses bringing down Google's earnings.

      http://www.dailyfinance.com/2013/07/19/google-earnings-ad-rates-motorola-losses/

      HTC's profit is down 98% and is barely ekeing out a profit.

      http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/apr/11/htc-profit-slump-samsung-apple-smartphone

      LG isn't doing that well either.

      The less said about Blackberry, the better.

      Meanwhile, MS partners like Dell, Sony, Compaq, HP, Acer, IBM/Lenovo etc. have made billions of dollars in profit in the past three decades by selling Windows PCs. Or take even HTC which started off as a Windows Mobile OEM.

      --
      This space for rent.
    2. Re:This should not be a surprise by erice · · Score: 2

      I don't know why anyone is upset about this. It shouldn't be a surprise. Tech history is littered with the remains of corporate entities who once partnered with Microsoft. What part of "Embrace, Extend and Extinguish" did Nokia think did not apply to them?

      At least the embrace and extend parts, perhaps all three.

      "Embrace, Extend and Extinguish" refers to Microsoft adopting an externally developed cross platform technology (Embrace), adding proprietary features incompatible with the original (Extend), moving their own efforts and inciting/pressuring third parties to use the Microsoft extensions therefore wiping out the cross platform utility of the technology and any interest in the original form (Extinguish)

      How does this apply to Nokia? As far as I can see, it doesn't. Nokia did not provide any technology for Microsoft to embrace, extend, or extinguish.

      No, this is much less devious. More akin to "Nobody every got fired for buying IBM" than "Embrace, Extend and Extinguish". Microsoft honestly wanted to win in mobile. They (perhaps dishonestly) convinced Nokia that they would would win and Nokia would share in the winnings if they bet everything. Nokia came through. Microsoft just failed. It is pretty hard to imagine how Microsoft could prefer owning all of failing Nokia running a failing Windows Phone, over owning part of successful Nokia running a successful Windows Phone. The only one who gained is Elop himself.

    3. Re:This should not be a surprise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Dell has been losing money on its cores hardware business in most recent quarters.

    4. Re:This should not be a surprise by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      I don't know why anyone is upset about this. It shouldn't be a surprise. Tech history is littered with the remains of corporate entities who once partnered with Microsoft. What part of "Embrace, Extend and Extinguish" did Nokia think did not apply to them?

      Not sure what Nokia thought, but this time it looks like Microsoft skipped the "Extend" step.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
    5. Re:This should not be a surprise by roc97007 · · Score: 1

      Well, there's some discussion that Microsoft planned every step of this. Hubris aside, Microsoft must realize Windows Phone wouldn't do better than low single digits, which means that any independently operating supplier would eventually either drop them or go under. Planting their own shill, or corrupting an existing shill in a major supplier, causing that suppler to be artificially devalued to a fraction of its former value, and then acquiring same, is the only reasonable way Microsoft can remain a player in this marketplace, using money from their other products to prop it up. This all seems pretty cut and dried.

      As to *why* Microsoft needs to continue to be a player in this market where they're clearly losing, I speculate that it has to do with the decision to push a phone OS onto all platforms, which would look a little odd if you didn't actually, you know, have phones using it. I wonder if they have some strange idea that this leverages a major revenue stream (Windows on the PC) to artificially drive a wedge into a market which they couldn't win through having an attractive product. Parenthetically, you can just see the boardroom conversation -- "We've tried putting Windows on a phone. That was less than impressive. Clearly, the winning strategy is to do the opposite, put a phone OS on the PC. Oh, and we'll still call it Windows, of course." When that didn't work either, the only way to stay in the market was to acquire a handset company.

      --
      Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
  13. Burning platform indeed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Elop seemed to hint in his memo that Nokia needed to save their burning platform to survive. With the benefit of hindsight, we can now see that he was actually foreshadowing a desperate panicked jump into icy unknown depths for Nokia—abandoning the platform for questionable benefit.

    Elop didn't bother to mention what such a jump would mean for him personally for he had secured a secret golden parachute to kick in should the company happen to change hands. And Nokia would only change hands if that platform were indeed on fire.

    Would Nokia really be worse off if they had embraced Android while continuing to evolve Symbian and MeeGo? Dumping everything for an unfinished and unused Windows platform was significantly more risky and came with a reduced best-case outcome!

  14. It's all Elops fault. No really he caused BB too! by Mr_DW · · Score: 0

    Life is wonderful with hindsight. But look around. This market had an incredible shift happen to it in an amazingly short amount of time. Maybe Elop caused the cratering of Nokia. But then again, even companies that were, without a doubt, trying to survive cratered in the same time (Blackberry for instance).

  15. Re:Looks like you were had by durrr · · Score: 3, Informative

    There's more to be sour about than bad investments in this case. The whole nokia board and elop included should be dragged out into the street and shot for their extreme mismanagement of the company.

  16. Not his fault by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    that the jump from a burning platform ended in an empty swimming pool.

    1. Re:Not his fault by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Elop, the Francesco Schettino of that burning platform.

      captcha: liable

  17. Re:It's all Elops fault. No really he caused BB to by Belial6 · · Score: 1

    You seem to confusing hindsight and foresight. Everyone knew what Elop and Microsoft were doing from the very beginning. This is definitely not a case of everyone figuring it out after the fall.

  18. So many comments and nobody pointed out.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    So many comments and nobody pointed out that the summary is completely wrong. Nokia wasn't sold. The D&S division of Nokia was sold. Nokia is still a huge networks solutions developer and provider. More than that, they run the largest or the second largest mapping business. And then finally, the still hold the largest patent portfolio in wireless communications from infrastructure to devices and protocols, etc. In this year's Nokia World invitation there's a dinghy, which is "Jolla" in Finnish, so there's that too for Oct 22..

    1. Re:So many comments and nobody pointed out.. by fritsd · · Score: 1

      And then finally, the still hold the largest patent portfolio in wireless communications from infrastructure to devices and protocols, etc.

      I thought that was all sold for an apple and an egg to some unknown American company called "Vringo"? We'll see where those patents (or rather patent lawsuits) surface again..

      --
      To be, or not to be: isn't that quite logical, Slashdot Beta?
    2. Re:So many comments and nobody pointed out.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You thought wrong. No patents were sold except for a few design ones for Microsoft. Additionally, Microsoft became a licensee of some Nokia patents for 10 years for 2 point something billions. That's all.

  19. Microsoft's Largest Ever! Embrace and Assimilate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Damn that strategy scales!

  20. Re:It's all Elops fault. No really he caused BB to by Mr_DW · · Score: 1

    You seem to confusing hindsight and foresight. Everyone knew what Elop and Microsoft were doing from the very beginning. This is definitely not a case of everyone figuring it out after the fall.

    So, since it was so obvious. What should Nokia done? Stick with their internal OSes that weren't competitive? Move to Android and be a me too? Started from scratch, again? Everyone seems to want to pretend Nokia was in a good place and THEN Elop came along. His memo was stupid (in that he should have known it would get out and would have horrible side effects). But it wasn't wrong. They were in a bad place and the projected trend numbers seemed likely at the time. So what did they do so wrong at the time? Or are you just saying because Elop is Elop it followed that it must have been M$' plan to take over Nokia, just cause. And that's the part I'm missing?

  21. I still say the EU regulators will not let it happen. We'll find out come Jan/Feb.

  22. Re:Looks like you were had by tqk · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The whole nokia board and elop included should be dragged out into the street and shot for their extreme mismanagement of the company.

    Did you read TFA (yeah, I know)? It says there was a clause in his contract awarding him a bonus for making the company "saleable." It was sold to Microsoft. Success!

    --
    "Tongue tied and twisted, just an Earth bound misfit ..." -- Pink Floyd.
  23. Re:Looks like you were had by plopez · · Score: 1

    That's the "Miracle of the Market Place" in action.

    --
    putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
  24. OH STOP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Stop your fucking crying. Don't tell me. You were some moron who though Symbian had a future? Nokia was as fucked and outdated as RIM. PERIOD

  25. Really Gross by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    After reading this I feel nauseous

  26. Read the original by jbolden · · Score: 1

    The original burning platform memo is worth a read. It was an acute analysis of Nokia's problems. http://blogs.wsj.com/tech-europe/2011/02/09/full-text-nokia-ceo-stephen-elops-burning-platform-memo/ All Elop did was state the obvious, that Nokia was in serious trouble.

    As for moving away from Symbian... Nokia is a business. Business exist to make money. Anyone who takes about share and not profits is in lala land.

  27. They were on a burning platform by sottitron · · Score: 1

    Just look at RIM. Their platform is literally crashing and burning as you read this. Nokia's best play was to stick with Windows Phone and get bought by Microsoft. Sure they could have made Android phones, but its not like HTC and LG and Sony are moving product. Maybe Nokia could do better, but at least with Microsoft they had a partner to push help push through technical hurdles and to contribute to marketing.

    1. Re:They were on a burning platform by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Riiiight, because android is the only platform there is, NOT.

  28. The problem with MeeGo by jbolden · · Score: 1

    MeeGo had a core problem. It was designed to fulfill two contradictory roles:

    a) Be a modern phone OS
    b) Be a smooth migration path for Symbian applications.

    During development of MeeGo (a) and (b) constantly conflicted. The N9 reflects that had Nokia picked path (a) and mostly ignored (b) they might very well have had an OS better than Android. But that was not the MeeGo project as it existed in Nokia at the time Elop killed it.

  29. TFA by Tom · · Score: 1

    TFA is crap, horrible blog-level amateur writing.

    It does, however, have a point. If this wasn't a hostile takeover from the start then it sure looks a lot like one. In other words: If MS had planned to acquire Nokia on the cheap long ago, something like what happened would've been a good plan to come up with.

    And it should really teach people to not get into bed with MS. But then again, so should've the last dozen or so victims they left behind.

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  30. Re: It's all Elops fault. No really he caused BB t by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I like the way you and Elop could both tell the N9 was guaranteed to be a failure, not only before the N9 was released, but before the decision was made to not advertise it, and to not offer it in their biggest European markets (e.g. DE) nor in the US market where they were losing badly in and wanted to turn that trend around. It must be great having psychics like you and Elop around. You'll have to pardon the rest of us for refusing to write off an unreleased phone altogether, though, and to interpret its limited success as being a product of the systematic sabotage described above, rather than of its inherent unworth.

  31. Please, oh, please by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ..claim compensation and/or charges against Elop and while that dragged through the courts for years..

    This would make my day. My year. This. This is my one wish for 2013. I don't care if I lose my job, I don't care if my girlfriend dumps me, I don't care if my new Xeon I just ordered from newegg is DOA and they scam me on the RMA, and I don't care if I find out that spot is cancer. Well, I do care. I care a lot. But I care about justice more. I'll give up everything, if I can just see that. It would make me feel like, maybe, the world isn't so bad, ya know?

  32. Elop burned the platform, MS provided the means. by sethstorm · · Score: 1

    What Elop won't tell you is that Microsoft provided the accelerant and the orders to use it. It's quite hard to make Nokia a Windows Phone company if you have viable platforms that compete with it

    --
    Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
  33. Counter Argument - RIM/BlackBerry by Luthair · · Score: 2

    RIM stuck to their guns with BlackBerry, didn't save it and are circling the drain ever faster.

    The Nokia stuff was old, Meego was not remotely close to ready (I worked in a shared office with someone contracted to help fix it and from his description a lot was still left when they shelved the product) so they had to make a change. Many of us questioned the exclusive WP choice but we'll never know if they'd chosen a split model or exclusively Android whether they could have convinced carriers to sell their phones. (For all we know discussions happened and carriers rejected them and MS tossed some cash around).

    1. Re:Counter Argument - RIM/BlackBerry by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 1

      Yeah yeah except the small detail that the Meego phone actually sold better despite not being available in most countries then the heavily advertised Lumnia 800. But hey, why let facts get in the way.

      --

      MMO Quests are like orgasms:

      You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

    2. Re:Counter Argument - RIM/BlackBerry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Some of the hardware that was to be used for future Nokia Meego phones was developed with both Android and Linux in mind (which is a natural thing to do considering they share quite a lot); all in all, while Maemo/Meego was already very nice for the end user (and N9 got the best reviews of all Nokia products of those times), switching to Android would've been quite easy to pull off in a rather short time. And as people have pointed out, Qt offered Nokia a nice framework for developing apps for Symbian, Maemo/Meego, possibly Android, and maybe even that other Linux platform they were preparing in secrecy... All this was so effectively sabotaged by the marriage to Microsoft that it's funny; sure didn't make people laugh back then tho.

      Posting anonymously even though NDAs have probably already expired.

    3. Re:Counter Argument - RIM/BlackBerry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is true, and it was something that people got a good chuckle out of while walking the corridors of the Nokia office :)

  34. Bought Nokia? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They bought one division, not the entire company.

  35. Well, the EXTEND bit is sure as hell missing by SmallFurryCreature · · Score: 1

    When did MS exactly extend Nokia? The Windows Phone adventure has been a complete disaster, even Steve Ballmer has to admit recently their market share went from very small to very small. And they been trying for over a decade. HTC only survived by escaping the stigma off making Windows phones.

    --

    MMO Quests are like orgasms:

    You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.

  36. Re:It's all Elops fault. No really he caused BB to by Belial6 · · Score: 1

    It wasn't Elop specifically. It was that fact that a previous Microsoft executive was made CEO, and his first move was to make the company completely beholden to Microsoft. There is no reason that Nokia could not have hedged their bets and made Android phones as well. The could have also continued on the the N9 line. The thing about Android is that even as a 'me too', it was clear that they would sell more phones than they would with Windows Phone. They didn't even need to make different phones. They could have easily put Windows Phone and Android on the same hardware. At worst, they would need to change the case to make the phones appear to be different.

    Of course, you clearly know that I am correct about the plan being obvious from the start. Comments like "Or are you just saying because Elop is Elop it followed that it must have been M$' plan to take over Nokia, just cause." make that clear.

  37. Nobody in the business cares by 21mhz · · Score: 1

    Damn it people, so much emotional attachment to a company because it once had the distinction to cock up an OSS-based project.

    Please get it through your heads: Nokia shareholders' objectives do not include supporting the cause of Linux, or Qt, or whatever. It is, plainly, to make money. They are fucking happy to see something sellworthy made out of the dysfunctional wreck that Nokia was in 2010.

    --
    My exception safety is -fno-exceptions.
    1. Re:Nobody in the business cares by TemporalBeing · · Score: 1

      Damn it people, so much emotional attachment to a company because it once had the distinction to cock up an OSS-based project.

      That has nothing to do with my statement. My statement was purely that they could in fact go back to MeeGo/Maemo if they wanted. There's nothing preventing that.

      Please get it through your heads: Nokia shareholders' objectives do not include supporting the cause of Linux, or Qt, or whatever. It is, plainly, to make money. They are fucking happy to see something sellworthy made out of the dysfunctional wreck that Nokia was in 2010.

      The objective of any business is to make money. Whether or not that includes Linux or Qt or whatever - even Microsoft Windows - is different matter based on what products and features the company thinks they can sell to others (corporate or not) to make money. Often the case is more aligning to Linux now than it is to Microsoft Windows; but as I noted that is an entirely separate issue than the comment I made pertaining to MeeGo/Maemo and Nokia's ability to continue with that platform if they so chose.

      --
      Truth is like the sun. You can shut it out for a time, but it ain't goin' away. - Elvis Presley (source: imdb.com)