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How Early Should Kids Learn To Code?
the agent man writes "Wired Magazine is exploring how early kids should learn to code. One of the challenges is to find the proper time in schools to teach programming. Are teachers at elementary and middle school levels really able to teach this subject? The article suggests that even very young kids can learn to program and lists a couple of early experiments as well as more established ideas including the Scalable Game Design curriculum. However, the article also suggests that programming may have to come at the cost of Foreign language learning and music."
learning logic skills should be well in advance of coding. i do think our society waits too late on that.
that alone could improve lots of things out side of computer programming as well.
Preschoolers can start learning 90% of programming - thinking clearly, being specific about what you mean, looking at HOW things work. I was actually coding BASIC around third grade I guess, but code is a small part of programming.
Pre-setting a macro in a toy truck is programming, and develops the skills - breaking down a desired outcome into specific steps, trying it and then making refinements, etc.
When I got to university, I discovered how much of the theoretical side I was missing. The main problem with teaching programming at an early age is that it really needs to be accompanied by teaching logic and then game and graph theory. I've seen classes that do this well for under-10s, but they're very rare.
[1] The Dijkstra comment that teaching BASIC should be a criminal offence doesn't really apply to BBC BASIC, which had full support for structured programming, an integrated assembler, and direct access to memory-mapped hardware.
[2] Back then, you really needed makefiles because there was no equivalent to a modern compiler driver. Compilation, assembly, and linking were all separate, manual, steps.
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Programming on itself isn't so useful, but learning to divide and organize a complex idea into it's base elements is one of the biggest flaws of the existing curricula. Almost no effort is done in that direction before kids reach college ages and not even for all kinds of degrees, at that point.
Jesus Christ. It's disgusting to see all of these comments saying "early", or "by the time they're 4", or something along those lines. Jesus Fucking Christ!
Kids should learn to code IF AND ONLY IF THEY WANT TO, AND ONLY WHEN THEY WANT TO .
Forcing it on them surely won't help. It'll just alienate them from it.
If a kid wants to learn to code, and expresses this interest, then provide him or her all of the support that's possible. Otherwise, bugger off and leave the kid alone. Just how nerdy kids don't like to be subjected to football and other sports against their will, athletic kids very likely don't want to be subjected to computer programming against their will.
Tossing programming courses in the curriculum is a wise idea, but now one has to balance the value add across the entire group if you're going to remove things like foreign language skills or music, both of which I see offering a considerable challenge to the value argument.
I highly doubt the person wanting to visit a foreign country will be praising the fact they have excellent programming skills at age 17, and yet find they cannot communicate.
Ask any programmer. 99% of them cannot live without music. It can help feed the creative mind that job demands. Learning about various kinds of music and their benefits (such as classical music impact on brain wave activity) rather than growing up shoehorned into the top pop/YouTube culture can be key to unlocking the potential of the creative mind.
We had a computer class once a week when I was in Kindergarten (1984-1985 to put it in perspective). We would type out small, prewritten LOGO programs and afterwards would discuss what they did and how our programs went wrong. We even had this little tank like robot in which you would input LOGO commands and it would move like the turtle would on the screen. It was what got me interested in everything programming and computers
"When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
As soon as they're interested in it. Simple as that.
Huh? That doesn't fit into your curriculum? Then I think it's time you ponder whether your curriculum has a problem or whether you want to continue making it the kids' problem.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
As soon as they ask that they want to learn how to do it is when you should start engaging them not only in coding but other computer science topics as well. Before my kids (3 out of 4) learned the basics of programming, they also had a fundamental understanding of electronics not because I pushed it on them but because they saw me working and started asking questions. Coding isn't for everybody and despite efforts to the contrary, it's more creative than people would think at first. That's the fatal assumption, if you have a foundation with Math and good logic skills that doesn't equate to being good or even liking coding as a profession. Now, if you ask my three kids (who are now 18+) what they want to do in terms of careers, one is in a CS program the others are not taking that track.
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
That's absurd. Learning time-sensitive ordered tasks, such as in music or dance, or alternative ways to express similar ideas, such as language skills, are invaluable to skilled programmers. The ideas of checklists, logical operations, and revising a program on the basis of alternate events, learning about backup and what you can lose without it, are all useful.
I'd be more concerned about what happens with _bad_ programming lessons, being taught to manipulate only GUI based patterns in a teacher expected way or be marked down for not doing it the way an uninformed, underpaid coding monkey wrote to mark the checksheet off their daily tasks and pays no attention to encouraging the children to learn how things work. I'm concerned tht the children will be taught only how to fill out a checklist blindly. I've worked with programmers taught that way, and they can become an active obstacle to good computing, good science, or even good politics.
I'm afraid that a lot of the pre-teen children I've been meeting in public school would be better off, though, with real recess or a daily siesta rather than yet another mandatory lesson that requires sitting in a computer classroom. They're exhausted, and getting their bodies moving is being neglected in conflicting academic policies and goals.
In my education, there was a big dead zone called junior high where the state curriculum taught very little new material -- just algebra and a little civics -- and spent most of the time rehashing what had been taught in elementary school. The prevailing wisdom that "raging hormones" made the junior-high kids unreceptive to new learning. Seriously, this is what principals and superintendents said. It's the most insulting thing to the pupils I can imagine.
Junior high was when some of my friends started taking drugs. I was reading a book a day just to kill the boredom, and I'm convinced I would have been better off skipping class and reading two books a day.
So you could give the kids something useful to learn during those two years, instead of spending taxpayer money to basically babysit them.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
The problem with teaching children in utero is the smarter ones hack mommy's system and that makes for a difficult pregnancy, with her constantly craving hot pockets, bacon flavored snacks and highly caffienated beverages.
http://www.beanleafpress.com
Robot Turtles is a board game for kids ages 3-8. It takes seconds to learn, minutes to play, and will keep them learning for hours. Kids won't know it but while they're playing, they're learning the fundamentals of programming.
Yes, read them the complete works of Donald Knuth while incapable of running.
Yeah, I plan to make my kids listen to gcc syntax error messages.
Au contraire. I for one put general literacy above computer literacy. It is mre useful in the real world. Not everyone is going to be a programmer, but everyone needs to read and write.
Not to be pedantic, but I expected more from you.
When I was 6 (in 1981) my Grade 2 class learned LOGO (at least the turtle graphics part). Of course I had been programming on my TS1000 for a year at that point, and so was mostly helping the other children. But still, pretty much everyone in the class "got it".
Why they stopped (and they did stop, after all) teaching programming to kids that age, I don't know. It was a stupid move. Really stupid.
Programming will be picked up long the way. Many trades nowadays seems to involve some programming in some sort of language - Excel Macros; ask an accountant. But is that really important for a child's future?
What's is going to help the kid in his future academic career is reading, math, writing, music and ball sports.
Yes, sports. Sports are a great way for a kid to learn social skills. And playing ball at an early age will help the kid develop "ball sense" which will help him with any sport he chooses later on. That's something that a developing brain is most apt to learn and something that people who don't have the experience as a chile never seem to pick up. It seems to be a skill that gets hardwired in at a very early age and once that window is closed, one can never get that sense. I know , I've tried. My coaches are always asking me if I played ball sports as a child because I don't have that "ball sense". and no matter how many hours playing, I just can't get it. (I spent many hours as a child in front of the Apple ][ programming BASIC)
And music. Don't force the kid, but music.
I don't get this fetish for getting children to learn to program. In the grand scheme of things, it's a skill that's not that important as a child.
Looking back at my life (I'm mid forties), the programming as a child actually harmed me. I missed out on a lot of childhood things and it did me very little good as an adult - especially now when my job of off-shored and getting another programming job is proving to be extremely difficult.
And another thing too, all the big shots - the ones who get the six figure bonuses when they cut costs by doing things like sending jobs overseas - were all ball players in college. They are the ones with all the personal connections - they get canned, their ball playing buddies gets them another cake job.
My friends are machines and other socially inept techies.
Some blame has to fall on the teachers and the official curriculum that hamstrings them. If they present the subject in a bone dry manner, they will completely fail to capture the interest of any student who isn't already interested. If they are not prepared to take a different approach than the average, there will be kids that will miss out on the initial ah-ha experience that allows them to appreciate the rest.
I do agree that if a subject has failed to capture their interest, harping on it for the next several years will do more to turn them against changing their minds than anything else.
Well, not everyone needs to be able to code bubblesort or beyond, right.
But slomst every profession would profit from a simple understanding of batch or macro programming. Nothing too complicated. function calls, true/false, if/then. put even return values, vars and loops into an advanced version.
That's the basics really anyone can profit from. From the secretary automating word with a small macro (as simple as inserting a timstamp on pressing a function key) to users of ifttt.com or setting up Llama/Tasker on their phones. And it's the foundation for learning some real coding later. And some basic logical skills and ability to break down requirements into smaller steps can't hurt either.
bickerdyke
Don't you love it when grammar nazis make spelling errors?
Just because you are paranoid does not mean that no-one is out to get you.
How Early Should Kids Learn To Code?
After they learn Karate.
I think 8 am is about the right time to start.
rewriting history since 2109
Right. Because as every parent will tell you, all you have to do is explain the logic to a preschooler and bam! You have instant recognition and the child will follow you request.
As the parent of a 4 yr old, you just need to know how to do it in a way that 'tricks' them into learning. Preschoolers have tons of urges to do things, they just don't know how yet. That's why they seem holy terrors trying to get your attention. They know there are lots of things to do, but they are currently limited in their ability to actually do those things.
So if a 4 yr old wants to watch 'Jake and the Neverland Pirates', I don't put it on for them. I sit down with them and ask them what we need to do. I get them to tell me that we need to turn on the television. Ok, then what? "Now we get the 'bemote'." Where is it? "I don't know." Where did you last use it? "On the beanbag chair." OK, should I look for it in the couch? "No, it's over here near the beanbag." Ok, now what do you do with the remote? "I press OK on the red box (netflix icon on Roku)" OK, what now? "I pick 'Jake' and press ok."
Yeah, that sounds pretty mundane, but even something as simple as putting on a children's show can be used as a process for walking through a problem in a step-by-step manner, and steps like asking where they might have last used the missing remote, and then suggesting we look in the 'wrong' location to get them to understand the deductive process and elimination of impossible options.
That's how you you start it.
Then, when you trust them more, get them to help you in the kitchen. Cooking is the ultimate in 'introductory programming'.
Out of modpoints but really liked a post? 1BDkF6TtmmeZ3yqXbz9yhdYVqRYnwFoXDj
There's a project on Kickstarter aimed for ages 3+that ends in a few hours:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/danshapiro/robot-turtles-the-board-game-for-little-programmer?ref=live
(Robot Turtles: The Board Game for Little Programmers)
Build it, and they will come^Hplain.
/sarcasm What!? Next you'll be telling me people carved naked statues having sex on the temples for decoration ... :)
Yes, read them the complete works of Donald Knuth while incapable of running
Nah, save that for later, when you need sleep.
Oh, I'm sorry sir, I thought you were referring to me, Mr. Wensleydale.