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Maryland Indictment Says Silk Road Founder Tried To Arrange Murder of Employee
Robotron23 writes "Further charges have been made against Silk Road founder Ross William Ulbricht, aka 'Dread Pirate Roberts'. Yesterday saw the shutdown of Silk Road, a website Ulbricht founded which specialized in the sale of illegal items such as recreational drugs. As well as paying for a hit on a forum member, Ulbricht later requested an undercover agent murder an arrested employee of Silk Road, terming it 'the right move.' Upon receiving staged photos of torture and eventually the corpse, Ulbricht paid in full."
I was curious what was all the huss around the bit coin mining about. Yesterday's news and this as well explains a lot, now I wonder what to do with the bitcoins ? Are there any similar uses of this currency that i do not know of?
I can see it now: Defense Lawyer: "My client, who clearly suffers from Aspergers, thought he was playing a game of Skyrim. Bitcoin is not real currency, and he thought the target would respawn in Toronto"
It sounds like they're ALWAYS undercover agents.
It is the Dread Pirate Roberts, after all.
Good night Wesley -- good work, I'll most likely kill you in the morning.
That was only a matter of time. My only question is if this is really about the murder attempt, or if that was just an excuse to squash an annoying web site.
You are totally blocking my view of the wall. - Dogbert
People who think they've invented a better society are the nastiest sort. The biggest problem is that they're stupid - they create a simplistic, inadequate set of rules to live by. Whether they're underground libertards (as here), staunch conservatives or flag-waving Leninists, they soon find that their utopia isn't quite working out the way they planned.
And then they start killing people.
Sounds like a trick out of Hank's book
This guy keeps turning out to be worse than we thought the day before.
It would be nice if the out of control authoritarians would end their insane drug war so that above-board businesses could replace murderous criminals in this thriving economy.
welcome to teh intarwebs, where the man-boys live in their mother's basements, the women are men, and the hitmen are agents provocateur.
"So, in other words, the FBI is guilty of conspiracy to commit murder."
What part of "staged photos" do you not understand?
AntiFA: An abbreviation for Anti First Amendment.
I went to high school with Ulbricht. Played hacky sack with him during lunch sometimes... never struck me as the "kingpin" type. He didn't even seem above average in any way. Guess you never know what people are capable of.
You're absolutely right. They're 100% guilty of the non-existent murder they staged. They should be locked up in an invisible prison cell.
Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
Just running the site he was 'safe', but the old rule applies that if you are doing anything remotely shady you don't stick your nose out there and make a target of yourself .. as they will use it to shut you down.
Hiring someone for murder, well that qualifies as making yourself a target. Idiot.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
For those who are looking for information rather than hype, there is the source:
http://www1.icsi.berkeley.edu/~nweaver/UlbrichtCriminalComplaint.pdf
At the bottom of page 23, you can read the following:
"32. Although I believe the foregoing exchange demonstrates DPR's intention to solicit a murder-for-hire, I have spoken with Canadian law enforcement authorities, who have no of there being any Canadian resident with the name DPR passed to redandwhite as the target of the solicited murder-for-hire. Nor do they have any record of a homicide occurring in White Rock, British Columbia on or about March 31, 2013."
So, in other words, the FBI is guilty of conspiracy to commit murder.
Um, no. That isn't how it works.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
The other murder. There are two murders here, the fake one the FBI staged and the real one they knew about but did not stop.
They are guilty of the subsequent murder. I'd ask if it was a slow day for you, but I suspect that for you it is a given on any given day.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
My understanding is that undercover agents have a bit of leeway, if not outright immunity, of being associated with charges when they're part of a team trying to take down a specific target. Of course they knew he was fully capable of having other people murdered, which is why they were doing their best to build a solid case and cause for arrest against him in real life.
Occasionally living proof of the Ballmer peak.
Great non-argument. Unfortunately it is how it works. If you actually write something coherent and state why you think that is not how it works, I'd be glad to blast a gaping hole in your argument.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Just what is the real credibility of US FBI Agents as witnesses these days?? Hmmm...
Let's see if what real evidence show up.
You are correct that they have leeway to build a case. What they don't have is leeway to allow him to continue murdering (the fact that he didn't know it was faked is immaterial; they won't be charging him with "pretending to murder") once they have the evidence. Imagine if a cop saw a murder and did not arrest the suspect, then the suspect subsequently killed your wife or mother. Would you be saying: I totally understand. He was exercising his leeway!
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
> "Depraved Indifference"
Hey I watched that law and order episode too, does that mean I can sound off on this?
The other murder. There are two murders here, the fake one the FBI staged and the real one they knew about but did not stop.
Okay. Do you know how you can put this to rest? Show us all where the second -- supposedly real -- murder is cited somewhere. The murder of someone other than the man known as "FreindlyChemist". Then we'd have to say, "Yup, you're right, there was a real murder," and we'd be done here.
I am not a crackpot.
Except that one didn't happen either. There were zero actual deaths among DRP's two "hired killings".
Why would a millionaire drug dealer - a type of criminal that is highly unwelcome in the US, continue to reside there?
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Sorry for my misunderstanding, but I had assumed that one was completed as well as far as DPR knew.
There was no subsequent murder. The "target" and the "hitman" were the same person, conning DPR out of $150,000.
They are guilty of the subsequent murder. I'd ask if it was a slow day for you, but I suspect that for you it is a given on any given day.
Care to quote what exactly you are talking about? As far as I can tell, no one is dead. The person the story is focusing on is "missing" which means they're probably in witness protection but that's all I can find.
No, no, the FBI FAKED THE MURDER. Ulbricht tried to hire an FBI agent to commit the murder. They faked torturing the target, and photos of the corpse.
Could you show me where it is written that law enforcement has a duty to prevent any particular crime?
I'm not talking about morality here, I just want you to substantiate your "guilty" claim. It's not automatically a "conspiracy" if you merely fail to prevent a crime. (Let alone that you have no solid evidence that the FBI even knew about the March murder before recently.)
Note that "reckless indifference" is a slightly misleading phrase. It's usually argued to establish that an act was malicious, even if unintentionally so, e.g. someone can act with reckless indifference if he turns on the industrial crusher when he knew that the servicemen were working on it and kills them. He didn't mean to kill them per se, but not giving a fuck still counts as malice. Acting with reckless indifference can get you the chair, but that's different from not acting due to indifference. (the hint is in the "reckless" part.)
Again, I don't disagree with you that if they knew and did nothing, it is reprehensible. My objection is only to your use of "guilty" and "conspiracy."
"They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
Before you start throwing insults and getting all snotty, you might want to check your own facts. TFA mentions just one attempted murder, and nothing about a real murder. Go read it.
Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
Errrrr, whut?
Let me recap that for you with some emphasis for easy understanding: He tried to hire FBI agents to do the February hit. After some yet unknown investigation and at unknown date, the server with SR was imaged, and after examining PM logs there they found the whole FriendlyChemist/redandwhite drama and directed inquiry to Canadian police.
Now if they'd have placed a bug on his PC in Feb'13 and complacently waited after grabbing that conversation as it unfolded, you'd have something to say.
You are correct that they have leeway to build a case. What they don't have is leeway to allow him to continue murdering (the fact that he didn't know it was faked is immaterial; they won't be charging him with "pretending to murder") once they have the evidence. Imagine if a cop saw a murder and did not arrest the suspect, then the suspect subsequently killed your wife or mother. Would you be saying: I totally understand. He was exercising his leeway!
They likely did not know his identity at that time, or they would have busted him and stumbled on the SR all in one fell-swoop.
That's not how it works because a conspirator must have an active role, knowing that their actions would contribute to the crime. If the FBI did know in advance about a planned second murder, and intentionally chose to let someone die just so they'd have a better case, that's just negligence.
That's also not how it works because the second murder didn't actually occur, either. If the FBI were actively involved in it to conspiracy levels, that's be for a solicitation charge or attempted murder, not actual murder.
Finally, that's not how it works because that's not at all how the criminal justice system works. There is no golden truth that determines right or wrong. Rather, a prosecutor proposes a theory of how the events unfolded, and the defense presents a different theory. They both either agree, or present evidence to a panel of jurors whose job is not actually to decide guilt or innocence, but rather to decide whether the prosecutor's evidence proves the theory.
You are welcome to submit a theory that the FBI intended to cause a murder, but now you have to prove it. So far you've shown that the FBI knew he'd tried to hire a hitman at one point, but you haven't shown that they intended to cause further murders. You're allowing a window of under a month to wrap up the investigation and arrest, with no prior indication that a second murder attempt was imminent. You'll also need to prove that such a short schedule was obviously necessary, rather than allowing more time to gather more complete evidence.
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
You want to sentence them to be mimes?
That's cruel an unusual punishment!
>Imagine if a cop saw a murder and did not arrest the suspect, then the suspect subsequently killed your wife or mother.
They sill wouldn't be culpable. See: Warren vs. District of Columbia.
I've heard of all sorts of stings, but it appears that the Feds ACTUALLY sold a kilo of cocaine. As in accepted the cash, and handed over the goods. Not accepted the cash, handed over the goods, then arrested the guy and took the drugs back, actually completed the transaction and left the recipient to sell it on to his customers.
I have no problem with them busting an attempted murder for hire, but I do have some concerns about law enforcement actually becoming drug dealers.
Sorry for my misunderstanding, but I had assumed that one was completed as well as far as DPR knew.
You assumed that murder had happened because you hadn't heard that one hadn't?
Man, I hope you're not on MY jury!
I am not about to try and find an actual law that states it. My point wan't actually that they should be arrested under the law, nor was I saying that there is any likelihood that it will happen under the law. The point is that, regardless of if there is a law that states it specifically they are clearly obligated to prevent murder (they cash a paycheck), and clearly have no right to pick and choose which murders they prevent. Of course, business as usual will continue, and they will continue to be criminals wearing badges.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Hush, logic takes the wind from the sails of self-righteousness.
...but I don't believe this hitman story for a second.
Sounds like a bullshit smear campaign by the FBI.
The FBI prevented a murder. If they didn't pretend to murder and keep it convincing, someone else would have taken the job and the guy would really be dead.
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Yes. And then they didn't arrest him, but instead left him free to commit another murder because they were more interested in standing in the way of people's right to the pursuit of happiness. Funny how you glossed over that part.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
... oh well.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
Apparently Ulbritch kept his bitcoins in 8 barrels buried in the desert
WTF am I doing replying to an AC at 5 A.M on a Friday night?
Any criminal act that results in the death of another is called felony murder.
In some instances, that may not be true, such as where a victim kills a criminal (depends on the state really).
If you can read this, it means that I bothered to log in.
Do you know that actual commission of a given crime is not required for ordinary citizens to be convicted of "conspiracy to commit x crime"?
In fact in some cases when it's clear that you have not really committed the crime, you can still be convicted of conspiracy, and it's usually a felony to commit conspiracy to commit a felony. Lawyers convicted of conspiracy can have their bar certifications taken away; I do not know this from personal experience but I have heard it said, and lo, it sounds entirely plausible as truth.
Restating the obvious since nineteen aught five.
1. Everyone speaks Latin. And yet Latin is a dead language. Thus, if you start speaking it, you'll become one of the undead masses.
2. Pervasive piety. No room for Pastafarianism.
3. Highly hierarchical societal. Fantastic if social mobility doesn't concern you.
Or, more likely, you'll continue to completely fabricate reasons to hate "law enforcement" while failing to acknowledge what would happen in their absence. Everything doesn't have to be either black or white, unless perhaps, if you're a zebra, which might explain a lot.
Knowing somebody shows a proclivity to commit murder doesn't require immediate arrest to stop them from just maybe attempting another mirder later. Even if the people interpreting the law re. "reckless indifference", "depraved indifference", et. al. were correct that the FBI was absolutely required to act on the information, then consider, building a good, solid case where the criminal may face 40 years or so sentence is a responsible choice of action, not an inaction. It's not ignoring indications the person may kill other people, It's recognizing that you don't have a particular target that looks likely to be in imminent danger. It's taking steps that mean the criminal will eventually be out of action for a longer time than if law enforcement acts precipitately. Particularly if the FBI agents think the person is unlikely to ever reform, they arguably may also think the total chance of more murders will be less if the criminal gets a lengthy sentence in a higher security facility. If the FBI knows the motive for the criminal to seek a hit man in the first place, then they can also judge whether the criminal actually has plans to kill some specific body else, rather than merely having shown potential to maybe, someday, be in another situation where they might try it again, and can make a judgement call about the relative risks. Doing that is what's supposed to happen, not "reckless indiference".
Who is John Cabal?
Funny how you glossed over the part where it's just an assumption of yours that they knew his identity and believed he's going to commit another murder, neither of which follows from what's available ATM.
First of all we are talking about Federal Law. Secondly, a criminal act resulting in the death of another, by definition, means that the criminal / perpetrator is guilty. For example, if I break into a store with someone and an innocent bystander kills the other person legitimately and in self defense, then I am guilty of murder under the felony murder rule.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
umm, you understand this WASNT AN ACTUAL CONSPIRICY, CORRECT?
it was a STAGED CONSPIRICY?
You are told the NSA spies on ALL of you to identify criminals and 'terrorists', but nothing could be further from the truth. However, public perception can be a very dangerous thing to the monsters that rule you, and this 'Silk Road' case is an excellent example of this.
At no time was Ross William Ulbricht or his activities unknown to the US authorities. His visibility was greater than the famed lighthouse of Alexandria. Why then was he NOT arrested immediately? Because the greatest criminals are intimately linked with those that are really in power over you, and are effectively just another division of the elite. In a way, you should compare this guy with Al Capone.
Now you all know that YEARS after Capone did his worst damage to society, he was finally taken down. The reason then is the same as the reason now- because these two criminals had become too significant in the public perception, leading to a wave of sheeple thinking that essentially said "how on Earth are these criminals above the ability of our law enforcement to arrest and prosecute them?".
When too many of the sheeple are getting deeply suspicious, the State has to act in some way to allay the suspicion. So the elite sacrifice one of their own, be it Capone or Ulbricht. And the once protected super-criminal learns the lesson that public disquiet, once it reaches a certain level, must be sated.
So Ross William Ulbricht is a victim of all the NSA spying scandals. And now, for the really really THICK sheeple, mainstream media outlets are seeded with stories about how the guy fell due to 'careless' mistakes about his identity. In reality he was taken down NOW because too many people were saying "how can we believe NSA spying has anything to do with crime fighting, if the 'Silk Road' is beyond law enforcement." Those of you who are truly stupid, but consider yourselves clever will say "why then is the NSA not given credit for taking down Ulbricht". Here's a clue, you idiot. Who was given credit for taking down Capone? And yet Capone was ONLY taken down because the public was becoming increasing concerned about the lack of results by the new organised crime fighting divisions of the US Justice department.
The NSA will always stay in the shadows. When forced by extreme public opinion, it will provide intelligence to allow a given criminal to be taken down, but you will NEVER be told the truth about this.
From my reading of the news coming out, there's no proof of a murder being committed. In 2012, DPR tried to have an employee who had been arrested killed, but as it happens, the "service provider" here was a law enforcement agent. Later, DPR was contacted by FriendlyChemist in a blackmail attempt, and he similarly arranged to have him killed, as well, with photo proof provided. Canadian authorities say no-one matching the name and address of FriendlyChemist found in Silk Road chat logs exists, nor is there any sign of a murder fitting the description taking place.
One explanation would be that LE were behind FriendlyChemist as well, perhaps thanks to information gained from the not-killed-at-all employee they'd arrested in the first place. In any case, there's no indication LE were able to identify DPR until quite recently, making the point of them believing he might order another hit rather moot.
How do you arrest someone when you don't know who they are? I seem to have missed the part where the FBI learned DPR's identity before september or so this year.
I am not about to try and find an actual law that states it.
He's referring to http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/28scotus.html cases like that which clearly say the police in fact are not under any obligation whatsoever to prevent a murder.
http://www.dailydot.com/business/silk-road-dread-pirate-roberts-interview/
That's exactly what seems to have happened.
Then they're guilty of fraud too.
There was a case similar to that where I live a few years ago. Two robbers go to rob a liquor store and bring a gun. The gun is set down on the counter and the clerk grabs it and it ends up shooting one of the robbers who died as a result. The remaining robber ends up charged with armed robbery and murder. I have been trying to find the article for a while but none of the local news sites seem to like to keep articles available for more then 6 months to a year now.
Time to offend someone
Thanks for speaking up with the voice of sanity and clarity. Now queue the trolls with: It's anecdotel evidence! Link or it didn't happen! etc.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
Why would a millionaire drug dealer - a type of criminal that is highly unwelcome in the US, continue to reside there?
Probably because (a) he thought he wouldn't get caught for it, and (b) there aren't really any other places where one can enjoy the same standard of living that won't harshly punish or turn over a trafficker in illicit goods and services. I mean, where exactly should someone who runs a black market website live?
If it's for-profit but free, you're not the customer -- you're the product (e.g., the Slashdot Beta's "audience").
It's been proposed that FriendlyChemist and redandwhite were working together to scam DPR.
FriendlyChemist asks for 500k, gets turned down, and names redandwhite as the guy he owes money to.
redandwhite says, "no problem, I can make FriendlyChemist go away for 150k."
redandwhite split 150k of DPR's bitcoins, and FriendlyChemist "dies."
That explains the lack of a body.
Sure, lovely people like Henry Ford could be in charge. Only the terminally insane think legal means nice.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Six weeks ago, Forbes published a piece that was entirely too flattering of DPR Ulbricht: http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/08/14/meet-the-dread-pirate-roberts-the-man-behind-booming-black-market-drug-website-silk-road/
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
I just found out my wife (also a former physics major from UTD) was in a few student groups with this guy, and they even went out once before we met. I also went to undergrad at UTD, and this guy's face does look vaguely familiar. I wonder if UTD's much flaunted business school is pissed that the university had a graduate who founded and ran a billion (with a B) dollar operation by his mid 20s and he came out of the physics department.
Pray, hope, or wish I don't get mod points in the near future, because I will be coming back later to moderate this post for trolling. You've been called out, corrected, and proven wrong by many others who've taken a more civil tone without resorting to childish insults and mockery.
Have we not however invented a better society than what our ancestors had? Are we really so nasty for not enslaving people? You clearly, ever so strongly dislike one of the aforementioned groups. So which of the other two groups are you - or are you among a fourth SUPERIOR group that makes you better than all of us? Seriously, fuck you.
My pegged to excellent karma is shaking in its pegged to excellent boots.
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
No, TFS says one murder. TFA says two, in the first paragraph it says that he paid 500k for someone in Canada but nobody knows if a murder actually occurred. He only paid the FBI 80K for the fake one.
TFA is a bit confusing and TFS does not mention it at all, but it looks like he contracted a second murder in March for 500k but no evidence that one occurred is known. The fake was was in Feb for 80K. Both were before the FBI knew who he was, so i don't see how they were supposed to arrest him and somehow prevent the second one that may or may not have happened...
Don't forget that it helps it know who someone is if you plan to arrest them. This all happened before they knew his real identity as far as i can tell.
Better example is "Fast and Furious" case. US undercover agents selling guns to Mexican drug gangs, to help make a case. Guns used to kill people. In particular, another Federal agent. Still a cause celebre on right wing sites, to attack Attoney Gen. Holder, and thus Obama.
With Assange's condom having neither his nor Arkin's chromosomal DNA on it (how is that possible?), why are we thinking the FBI are above fabricating this Ulbrecht case?
So what? Do you think that DPR knew the difference when he sent the 150kUSD in bitcoins?? Will a jury believe that?
Conspiracy is a crime of intent. If the feds case collapses for some unfathomable reason and all they can get him on is conspiracy to commit murder, then they will have a felony charge that will stick, and he will still go to jail.
Restating the obvious since nineteen aught five.
something to stick?