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Why the FAA May Finally Relax In-Flight Device Rules

Nick Bilton at the New York Times has been writing skeptically for years about the FAA's ban on even the most benign electronic devices during takeoff and landing on commercial passenger flights. He writes in the NYT's Bits column about the gradual transformation that may (real soon now) result in slightly more sensible rules; a committee established to review some of those in-flight rules has recommended the FAA ease up, at least on devices with no plausible negative effect on navigation. From the article: "The New York Times employed EMT Labs, an independent testing facility in Mountain View, Calif., to see if a Kindle actually gave off enough electromagnetic emissions to affect a plane. The findings: An Amazon Kindle emitted less than 30 microvolts per meter when in use. That is only 0.00003 of a volt. A Boeing 747 must withstand 200 volts per square meter. That is millions of Kindles packed into each square meter of the plane. Still, the F.A.A. said “No.” ... But then something started to change: society." Of course, the rules that committees recommend aren't always the ones that prevail on the ground or in the sky.

25 of 278 comments (clear)

  1. Seems simple enough by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There is zero evidence, so the FAA should change the rules.

    Oh wait, this is federal government bureaucracy here. They will discuss ad nauseam for several years, then decide it's not worth the political risk.

    1. Re:Seems simple enough by damnbunni · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If that's what you really want to do, use a camera that isn't an electronic device.

      They do make them. They use this really neat non-electric technology called 'film'. You can even get one that doesn't take batteries at all, if you don't need a flash!

    2. Re:Seems simple enough by qbast · · Score: 4, Funny

      There is no need wear anything red (or whatever colour you hate), so the FAA should play it safe.
      There is no need to allow electronic devices, books or any other forms of entertainment for duration of whole flight, so the FAA should play it safe.
      There is no need to fly without my patented 'crash averting' rocks, so the FAA should play it safe.

  2. Re:What about cowbells? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Personal choice my ass. Cowbells can't give consent you filthy deviant.

  3. Re:What about cowbells? by JustOK · · Score: 5, Funny

    Plus, you could catch the clapper.

    --
    rewriting history since 2109
  4. Hope the committee has a better grasp of units by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Withstand 200V per square meter? If that's not just a typo, we are talking about a change in magnetic flow density. 30uV/m, in contrast, is an electric field strength. The electric field around any battery is much larger than that, but nobody wants to prohibit carrying batteries around. You don't get any magnetic flow from that, but you can get magnetic flow from a change in electric field change. In fact, depending on the frequency of the change, the change in magnetic flow density can get arbitrarily large even when we are talking about an amplitude of just 30uV/m.

  5. Questions by Phroggy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    How does the government shutdown affect the FAA's ability to make these sorts of policy changes? I would assume that the people who make these decisions have been furloughed, so all existing regulations stand until Congress gets their heads out of their asses?

    Also, is there any danger posed by dozens of Kindles flying around the cabin in the event of a crash landing? I realize the current regulations allow non-electronic items such as books, but is this a concern at all?

    It's encouraging to see these kinds of changes coming. I'm glad the FAA is revisiting this issue (or will be once we start paying them again).

    --
    $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
    $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
  6. no set the pico-cell to be a non US one and the ro by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 4, Funny

    no set the pico-cell to be a non US one and the roaming fees will make people trun them off after they get the bill from 1 flight

  7. Journalistic pseudo-science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    There may well be solid technical arguments for reversing the current FAA policy, but Nick Bilton's articles certainly don't make them. Nor does the explanation attributed to the EMT Labs engineers, at least if it was described accurately. On the other hand, statements like "An Amazon Kindle emitted less than 30 microvolts per meter when in use. That is only 0.00003 of a volt" are clearly designed to make what sounds like a convincing argument to non-scientists, whether or not this argument actually has any technical merit.

    As an illustration: the nominal signal strength of a GPS signal at the antenna of a receiver is specified to be -160 dBW (this is for a standard "reference" antenna, i.e. right-hand circularly polarized, under open sky conditions). That's one-ten-thousandth of one-one-millionth of one-one-millionth of a watt. In a standard 50-ohm RF system, this corresponds to a voltage of about 0.000000071, which is over four hundred times smaller (weaker) than the "only 0.00003 of a volt" signal measured off the Kindle. Viewed in that light, it's hardly clear that the Kindle's emissions are negligible. (Never mind the fact that no mention whatsoever is made of what frequency or frequencies they've measured in that setup, and that the anechoic chamber pictured in the article is typically configured to measure direct line-of-sight field strength, whereas inside an aircraft there are all sorts of complicated effects -- absorption by passengers and seats, reflection by metal surfaces, etc. So I'm not sure this is even a meaningful measurement to be making in the first place.) In any case, since GPS is considered a safety-of-life system in aircraft navigation, anything that can even come close to disrupting its ability to acquire and track signals is a potential problem.

    The bottom line is that the kind of pseudo-scientific argumentation in this article isn't really helpful. As I said, there may well be sound technical reasons to relax the devices ban. But this doesn't really present any of them.

    -CF

    1. Re:Journalistic pseudo-science by gmhowell · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There is a certain degree of arrogance among passengers that goes along the lines of "if the crew can do this, so should I." Remember, in flight, the aircraft cabin is not a democracy. You take orders from the Captain and the Crew working on his or her behalf. If you do not, you can be forced, using whatever means necessary to attain compliance.

      STFU and get on the other side of your locked cabin door, you glorified chauffeur.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
  8. If devices left on could take a plane down... by Trip6 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    it would have happened by now. Everybody leaves them on.

    --
    I hate being bipolar; it's awesome!
    1. Re:If devices left on could take a plane down... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Didn't the plane headed for Washington D.C. on September 11 crash prematurely after frantic mobile phone use?

  9. Re:Silly by M.+Baranczak · · Score: 4, Insightful

    so the passengers should be paying attention

    Paying attention to what? The fuel pressure? The air speed? The angle of the flaps?

    If the plane's about to crash, get on the intercom and tell them you're about to crash. I guarantee you'll get their attention.

  10. Like the reporter has a clue... by msauve · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "The findings: An Amazon Kindle emitted less than 30 microvolts per meter when in use. That is only 0.00003 of a volt. A Boeing 747 must withstand 200 volts per square meter. "

    EMF fields are measured in V/m. He's got one side right, but the "200 volts per square meter," is nonsense. Additionally, the actual 200 V/m measure is from RTCA DO-160 Section 20, and refers to external fields, which are in large part shielded by an aircraft's metal skin. And, the criteria for success is not a lack of interference, but whether the aircraft will continue to operate after experiencing a brief event of that magnitude. Indeed, there is every expectation that normal communications will be lost when subject to that level of signal.

    A better, and more honest, comparison for that 30 uV/m the Kindle put out would be to consider that a decent FM radio can get stereo reception with a signal of 2 uV/M. That's reasonable, as FM frequencies (88-108 MHz) have similar characteristics compared to those used for aircraft communications (108-137 MHz), which are immediately adjacent. RTCA DO-196 assumes a radio sensitivity of 20 uV. So, a Kindle can compete in signal strength with those normally received by an aircraft communications receiver.

    This issue is not what level of emissions from a device will cause damage, but whether they can interfere with aircraft operations. Just as the author conflates uV/m with uV/m^2, he's also ignorant of what's really important.

    Having said that, it's unlikely that a Kindle (the example given) emits enough in the aircraft radio band to cause problems. I'd be more concerned with a bunch of cell phones, each with a GPS receiver built in, interfering with the aircraft's GPS based systems. GPS operates at even lower levels. But, I'd trust someone who actually understands the issues to make a real study to determine the risks, rather than take the word of an obviously biased ("writing skeptically for years") writer who gets even the basics wrong, after years of writing about the subject (or is being deliberately disingenuous).

    --
    "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    1. Re:Like the reporter has a clue... by pepty · · Score: 5, Informative

      I always thought the issue wasn't properly functioning cell phones, kindles, walkmen, etc interfering with VOR or HF bands (the rules predate GPS on phones) ; the problem was electronic gadgets that generated lots of RF interference due to malfunction or due to being cheap imports that were never UL approved in the first place. Airlines could test everyone's electronics for interference during or right after boarding ... or just make everyone turn every damn thing off. I know which is simpler and faster.

    2. Re:Like the reporter has a clue... by Entropius · · Score: 5, Interesting

      If a malfunctioning kindle can generate enough RF to possibly interfere with a plane, then a malicious attacker could *certainly* interfere with a plane. If a device running on a few watts of power can fuck up a plane this badly then I don't want to get on it.

    3. Re:Like the reporter has a clue... by msauve · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not a matter of taking a plane down. It's a matter of increasing the risk. Deliberately causing that much interference on a single flight is unlikely to cause a crash, so it's not a good strategy - it would get noticed. But lessor, unintentional interference, spread across millions of flights per year, may increase the risk so that one (or more) has a life threatening problem.

      A 1:1000 chance isn't good enough for a bad guy, who risks being caught. But doubling the risk of flying so people can use doodads for 30 minutes more per flight isn't good for the public, either.

      The burden of proof is to show, not that personal electronics cause problems, but to show that they don't. And that's across all of the ones encountered, not just the ones working to factory specifications.

      --
      "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    4. Re:Like the reporter has a clue... by thygate · · Score: 5, Informative

      In many radio reception techniques the signal is down-converted to a much lower frequency for easier processing. This is done through so called "heterodyning", which takes the carrier signal and mixes it with the signal from a Local Oscillator (LO) to create an Intermediate Frequency (IF). The IF and LO signals will radiate and need to be properly shielded.

    5. Re:Like the reporter has a clue... by crakbone · · Score: 4, Funny

      If there is the possibility it could cause a problem with the flight it should be scanned before going on. Because trusting someone to turn it off on a flight where such a device could cause interruption to sensitive electronics on takeoff and landing is crazy. Considering a little while ago you were not trusted to carry finger nail clippers on. But here your trusted that you will not VOLUNTARILY mess with the the actual controls of the aircraft. But you could be setting up forced manicures of the planes occupants and that must be stopped.

    6. Re:Like the reporter has a clue... by Waffle+Iron · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I'd be more concerned with a bunch of cell phones, each with a GPS receiver built in, interfering with the aircraft's GPS based systems.

      You can rest assured that that scenario has been thoroughly tested. When the flight attendants tell people to shut off their electronic devices and stow them, many if not most people simply shut off the screen, believing that means "off", or simply not giving a damn. The GPS and cell functions continue merrily running for the whole flight, including takeoff and landing. Since planes aren't falling out of the sky already, it's almost certainly safe enough.

      A lot of people have no clue what "airplane mode" is or what it's for, and there probably are also a lot people who have no inkling of even how to actually power down their phones. None of this is enforced anyway, beyond checking that someone isn't blatantly operating a screen.

    7. Re:Like the reporter has a clue... by girlintraining · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'd be more concerned with a bunch of cell phones, each with a GPS receiver built in, interfering with the aircraft's GPS based systems.

      Erm, for a guy who managed to get most of the technical detail right, you flubbed this one pretty bad; a GPS receiver is just that, a receiver. With the exception of the RF front end, it's all processed inside a chunk of silicon. So there should be very, very little interference from one, or even fifty, of them, unless there's a defect in the cell phone itself that is causing EMI -- something unintentionally functioning as an antenna.

      All electronic devices emit EMI, but suggesting that the GPS receiver portion of a cell phone is any more or less capable of causing interference to the GPS signal absent any testing to support this, is flat out bogus. Anything can interfere with a GPS signal; A GPS receiver is no more or less likely to do so -- they don't have crystals in them that oscillate at the same frequency like old shortwave radios. Unless you can provide some documentation that the design of all cell phone GPS receivers has some flaw that causes it to emit enough EMI to disrupt the same signals its designed to receive, I have to call this myth busted.

      --
      #fuckbeta #iamslashdot #dicemustdie
    8. Re:Like the reporter has a clue... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But lessor, unintentional interference, spread across millions of flights per year, may increase the risk so that one (or more) has a life threatening problem.

      A person boarding the craft (Lets say a sexy blonde) may catch the eye of the pilot, who may start fantasizing about them mid-flight, and miss an important indicator. Therefore, no sexy blondes on board the plane. Sure, it's not likely to happen, but "lessor, unintentional interference, spread across millions of flights per year, may increase the risk"....

      A tiny, tiny, tiny chance that something MAY increase the RISK of something bad happening, and we're banning all electronic devices in flight. Sheesh. Pussies.

    9. Re:Like the reporter has a clue... by mbone · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Even if you know perfectly well what "airplane mode" is, if the plane is about to take off and you remember that your phone is in your briefcase, in the overheard storage compartment 5 rows from your seat*, do you ask to abort the takeoff so you can get up and turn it off? I didn't think so.

      I bet every commercial airline flight takes off with at least one fully activated phone.

      * Has happened to me, when I am in a rush and stick my phone in the briefcase going through security.

  11. Re:pocket knives by bitt3n · · Score: 5, Funny

    How foolish of me to have forgotten that epidemic of oafs bleeding out from self-inflicted pen-knife injuries in the dark decades before those seductive instruments of mayhem had yet ceased to imperil the skies.

  12. Re:pocket knives by msauve · · Score: 4, Funny

    ...but two or three cans of Coke combined together are a danger. Just ask Michael Bloomberg.

    --
    "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law