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TEPCO Workers Remove Wrong Pipe Get Splashed With Radioactive Water
An anonymous reader writes "A day after TEPCO workers mistakenly turned off cooling pumps serving the spent pool at reactor #4 at the crippled nuclear plant comes a new accident — 6 workers apparently removed the wrong pipe from a primary filtration system and were doused with highly radioactive water. They were wearing protection yet such continuing mishaps and 'small mistakes' are becoming a pattern at the facility."
. . . the boys should not be trusted with nuclear anything. They know how to take notes and make lists, but when it comes to handling risk, they're clueless.
I once found a radioactive test sample in a dumpster when I worked for a medical device manuf. in Tokyo - there are many more stories to go along with that one. Like how we were told if there was a fire to first order a pizza, then tell the firemen to follow the delivery to the fire. A lumber yard caught on fire one night, and we watched as the sirens and flashing lights on the fire trucks zig zagged around the neighborhood - 45 minutes later, the fire was out and they still hadn't found it.
An outside multi-national agency must be brought in or these types of calamities will only continue with TEPCO.
"The most troublesome thing about this nuclear pipe water tipping incident is that there is nothing funny about it."
We never found it funny, that they are telling us now for 50 years that it's perfectly safe and that they are professionals who can handle any problem, no matter what.
Now we know that they can't even handle a bunch of simple systems that have a tank, a hose and a pump.
I would be willing to bet that things like this happen frequently at nuclear power plants in the U.S. but they aren't being closely scrutinized so you don't hear about it.
Queue the malcontents to stir up the idiots with OMG TEPCO IS KILLING TEH EARTH!!!1
Stop it. They're handling vast quantities of water in thousands pipes, tanks, tunnels and pumps. Some of it is going to leak. Some of it will spill. Sometimes it will get on someones rad suit. This isn't incompetence or the end of the world. It is the natural and expected consequence of dealing with fucking plumbing.
Whatever. This hysteria has an expiration date; after the 50th OMG THEY SPILT SOMETHING story people will get tired of it and the media will seek out some new source of hysteria.
That is, at least, as it should be. It would be nice if we could just not indulge this stupid shit to begin with.
How do you accidentally remove the wrong pipe when you're working with nuclear stuff?
I've worked in the software and IT industry for quite a few years, and in that time I've learned that there are things you do that need to be precise, because you can make a hell of a mess if you don't. To do this, you measure twice, measure a few more times, and have your second who has been watching what you're doing confirm you're doing what you expect to be.
I learned this from maintaining production systems for business critical stuff, and a few things for which lives could literally be on the line. But at the end of the day, it's still less dangerous and critical than working on a nuclear plant.
This just sounds to me like either they're fumbling around in the dark, working from incomplete plans and don't actually know what the parts are, or are just simply not taking time to do the diligence on what they're doing.
Especially when it's your ass that's going to get splashed with highly radioactive water.
For a nation which has a reputation for fastidious attention to detail, obsessive safety drills, and engineering excellence ... how the hell are they ending up with a company which has made so many 'mistakes' in this?
Once again, I have to wonder if these guys are actually qualified to be running nuclear reactors. Because this is two accidents in a few days, and I get the impression that a lot of this was also caused by human error.
The mind boggles.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
More than likely the workers are all getting fatigued and small mistakes are starting.
It's well beyond time for the Japanese government to bring the Japanese military in to bring this under control. After that an international effort to assist Japan in any way required. Even considering the pride of the nation as a factor it's now becoming an international problem for any country that shares the pacific ocean.
This is well beyond TEPCO's ability and expertise, they are a utilities company. Furthermore it was their negligence through nonfeasance that got us into this mess in the first place. A criminal investigation should be conducted and the future of the company considered.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
It does seem increasingly clear that TEPCO couldn't be trusted to take care of your fishtank for a weekend(not even the freshwater one that's really relaxed about sampling and balance adjustments); but it should be noted, in fairness, that wacky piping accidents do get easier the more thickly built (ideally ad-hoc, and in poorly labelled stages, with evolutionary growth here and there) the piping rat's nest gets.
The essence of true competence is to avoid getting into situations where continuous high levels of competence are needed; by not backing yourself into a clusterfuck of a system that is always one false move away from doing something dangerous; but if you've fucked up and done that, it's really just a matter of time until somebody gets tapped as the fall guy by the pitiless gods of blind chance.
"Energy" is an awfully persuasive argument. Without it, your civilization will crumble to little more than medieval standards of living surprisingly fast.
Given that Japan has ~0 coal, oil, gas (not even much wood, per capita), it was either nukes or imports. Much of the rest of the world hasn't had to face up to the problem as dramatically because they've got a big stash of cheap 'n nasty coal somewhere convenient. That has its own downsides; but those have proven easy to ignore (unless you make the mistake of living in our under-construction Appalacian Lunar Theme Park or something).
Its almost like the are in a culture where you can't call out people's mistakes and follow orders blindly.
A corporation?
But it isn't a pattern of small mistakes. A design that guaranteed that a generator failure during a power outage would result in a meltdown was (and still is) considered safe. That's not a mistake, that's a fundamental design/regulatory issue. That they put the generators in line with a tsunami path, rather than mounting them on the roof of a reinforced shed (which would have prevented the meltdown, so long as the fuel wasn't contaminated before the backup fuel was brought in), wasn't error. It was intentional. There's a difference. An unfortunate event that was intentional is negligence. Opening the wrong pipe mistakenly believing it to be a different one is a 'small mistake'/mishap.
Learn to love Alaska
"Energy" is an awfully persuasive argument. Without it, your civilization will crumble to little more than medieval standards of living surprisingly fast.
In my estimation, Japan was not remiss in using nuclear power. Your comments about their lack of energy resources are spot on. nuc was and is a good option for Japan.
What they were stupidly and criminally negligent in was building the way they built it, and mainly in the location where they built it. The plant was built in an area of historic Earthquake and Tsunami activity. Worse, the wall built to protect against Tsunami waves was insufficient to protect against waves that they knew would hit it.
The historical and geologic record shows this to be the case. The Japanese have records of when Tsunamis happened in the past, The geological record shows the gravel drops where the waves hit their highest level.
The Fukushima plant was going to be hit with an earthquake and Tsunami, and one of these events was going to have a wave height higher than the protective barrier.This was as close to scientific certainty as it is possible to be.
So what is a country to do that needs power and decides that nuclear is the way to go?
First of course, is to determine the risks, and determine how to mitigate them.Earthquakes and Tsunami are the main bugaboos in Japan. Since a large source of water is needed, you probably want to site the plant by a fresh water river. You want it far enough from the ocean and at a sufficient altitude that the Tsunami wave that will happen will not reach the plant. You want to place it in relative stable area regarding seismic activity.
Then after all that, you add a nice big safety factor in your design
But the toughest part is the politics. As likely as not, someone has a nice piece of property they think would just be crackerjack to sell to the company making the plant. There will be pressure to get done on schedule, and almost always, the bean counters trump the engineers.So other factors end up compromising the design, and you get a plant that has total certainty of a catastrophic failure.
As the technological issues are addressed and surmounted, it is yet to be shown if the political and human factors can.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
and here is your little chart if we keep trusting mere mortals with the power to create a country sized wasteland:
That is one hell of a 10,000year - 100,000 year long mistake. Which could very well happen at those timescales, even if its rare, even if its got 8 safeties. We are all fallible human beings running this shit after all. No amount of clean, "safe", cheap power should be worth the risk of generating pollution lasting tens of thousands of years.
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Opening the wrong pipe mistakenly believing it to be a different one is a 'small mistake'/mishap.
That's one small mistake for man, one giant leap for mutantkind
READY.
PRINT ""+-0
Oh dear, forget to check the anonymous checkbox did we? This post is basically word for word the same as countless anon troll posts... So either you have no imagination or, more likely, we have finally identified the fetid feces troll. Idiot.
Gosh, thanks. That must be why the other ships call me Meatfucker -- GCU Grey Area (Eccentric)
Yes, there is.
Recently, I have been going over distinctions between western/American and Japanese cultures. It has been widely accepted that Japanese cultures do not require leaders as much as western/American cultures. When and where things are established and routine, accepted and understood, the Japanese excel in ways that make western/Americans a bit jealous and often awed. On the other hand, crisis management is best handled by smaller numbers and individual thinkers who can collectively see more because they all see things differently.
There are other aspects as well and among these are in how errors, mistakes and anomalies are perceived and handled. When and where the first response is denial, it is an early sign of delayed problem resolution. In a crisis, delays in problem resolution are sometimes deadly. I believe we are seeing this at play now.
I once, in a committee with both Japanese and American members, pointed out that Columbus Day essentially celebrates a mistake of navigation and of understanding the world. The goal was to reach India. Columbus ended up somewhere else. We literally celebrate that and name things after this man. (The truth behind myth and legend is for another discussion and does not change the general truths, myths and legends the holiday actually celebrates in the hearts and minds of the people celebrating.) I pointed out that Americans, at times, celebrate mistakes. This is something the Japanese simply cannot do. The room went silent for a moment. Mistakes are not to be discussed, let alone acknowledged, in Japanese society.
I could go on and on about my experiences in this area, but each approach has its merit and each approach has led each culture into extremely successful growth and development in the world. After all, Japan and America (by which I mean the USA obviously) are highly developed and sophisicated world powers. To simplify and say one approach is wrong while another is right is ridiculous. Japan's way is "mastery" but it takes lifetimes and usually multiple lifetimes to achieve and maintain mastery of any given thing. America's way relies on talents, aptitudes and abilities of individuals to achieve great things. Which is better? We're both here at the same time after all.