Slashdot Mirror
Guardian Ignores MI5 Warnings, Vows To 'Publish More Snowden Leaks'
dryriver writes in with news that a new round of Snowden leaks may be on the way. "Guardian editor Alan Rusbridger says he plans to publish more revelations from Edward Snowden despite MI5 warning that such disclosures cause enormous damage. Mr Rusbridger insisted the paper was right to publish files leaked by the US intelligence analyst and had helped to prompt a necessary and overdue debate. Mr Rusbridger said more stories would be published in the future as the leaked documents were 'slowly and responsibly' worked through. His comments come after criticism from the new head of MI5, Andrew Parker. Making public the 'reach and limits' of intelligence-gathering techniques gave terrorists the advantage, he said. He warned that terrorists now had tens of thousands of means of communication 'through e-mail, IP telephony, in-game communication, social networking, chat rooms, anonymising services and a myriad of mobile apps'. Mr Parker said it was vital for MI5 to retain the capability to access such information if it was to protect the country. "
I'm so tired of using "terrorist" argument and then, when we give them what they want, they turn around and use new powers on own citizens or to oppress members of minor political parties.
I think the guardian got all his stuff in a batch file, they're just going through it slowly, the man himself is not releasing anything new.
Snowden isn't releasing any more data - he did it once when he handed everything over to the reporter.
All of the spy types could meet at Rick's Cafe. Of course Sam won't be there to play that tune, but you can't have everything now, can you? The best alternative might be to have forms of communication directed to a spy central where censors review it for "National Secrets" then pass it on or arrest you!
On teh upstart none will byable to hunderstand nethig publishd in their neway
"It's expensive, stupid, last only seconds - but makes your mouth hurt for days - it's BEE IN A BALLOON" - Kibo 3/1/95
Security through secrecy = no security.
Also, the Snowden leaks mostly show that it's more honest citizens than terrorists who should be concerned about ubiquitous surveillance. Cue 1984 references...
In a sense, Bin Laden got what he wanted: he didn't want to hurt western societies directly, he wanted to get western societies to collapse into dictatorships by giving the initial push (9/11) that would allow mostly-democratic governments to slowly turn nasty with a good reason.
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
T1: RU rdy for the big boob
T2: Wat? lol
T1: Bomb stupid spell chk
T2: Tot Bro got packback rdy
T1: YOLO for Allah!
T1: Rmbr, post pic or it didn't happen!
Is it like that? Do terrorists txtmsg each other like teenagers?
Sig. Sig. Sputnik
despite MI5 warning that such disclosures cause enormous damage to their image
FTFY!
Causes damage ? Sorry for having a different point of view but uncovering the disgusting acts of espionage on the population is a public service showing us how our free world is being transformed by the crooks and criminals we elected. The ones that should be jailed are the officials that led us down this path. They do not want to protect us , they want to protect their asses from being landed in a cold cell.
They are NOT working in our interrest, they are working against the People trying to get a better grip on our lives making us better slaves for our masters.
Fuck em . Publish all you got , get those bastards in jail or execute them. If some of them happen to get killed , so be it , they have waged a war on the People and they knew that the path they led us on was a dangerous one.
let em deal with their mess , i got no pity whatsoever.
I can't imagine the number of careers being destroyed with each leak. I suspect that in the healthier democracies the very organizations doing this spying will be largely dismantled. The real question, that should not be answered by anyone in the spying business, is whether these revelations are resulting in a greater good?
Quite simply the people behind the curtain have long had an attitude of the end justifies the means, so now in exposing them they are getting a taste of their own medicine. The other core pillar of the spying business is that information is power; well by exposing the spies themselves we give power back to the people of the various democracies in question.
But what really boils my butt is that any foreign spy or "actor" who was using any electronic system without assuming that they were being monitored is a fool. And anyone that foolish probably didn't pose much of a threat. From what I gather Osama was found as they tracked the couriers who physically carried messages, which means that he was off the grid as far as his trail was concerned. But the people who do still use electronic communications were people like you and me, combined with organizations and governments who trusted the rest of the world.
So how many trade negotiations were done while the US listened in on the other side figuring out their negotiating positions, how many companies like Siemens might have had business deals or trade secrets handed over to us contractors?
But then it gets potentially worse: How many times did say a Canadian go to negotiate a trade agreement only to find that they had a recording of him and his mistress? How many times did a politician who was causing problems have a tipped off reporter show up for a rendezvous with his mistress? Or even to have the troublesome politician's election strategy handed over to his opponent? Or to have his secret PAC supporters suddenly withdraw their support?
If they are willing to lean on a company that "buys its ink by the barrel" how little reluctance would they have to twist democracy to their needs?
So my guess is that it is not the real baddies who have gone silent but the diplomats, politicians(both domestic and foreign, and large international businesses that are going silent. Personally if I ran a company like Siemens I would be locking up the communications and computer system tighter than a drum.
The spies whine and spin it their way. If what they were doing was so innocuous, uncontroversial and even beneficial then they would be happy to be praised in the press. The fact is what they ware doing is deeply offensive to a large segment of society and they wish to hide it.
As to whether the terrs benefit or not, only the stupid ones might and they probably aren't reading. The non-stupid terrs have known about surveillence since before Echelon and adjust accordingly. They won't even infer any limits because they know the release is vetted to be incomplete.
The real effect of Snowdens releases is to confirm the tinfoil-behatted. Many fringe people have been saying much the same thing for 10+ years and been dismissed as lunatic paranoids. Now it appears they were right. Many people have egg on the face (congentially oblivious).
So Mr Parker lists all those methods then says he wishes to retain access to them... doesn't that kind of tell the terrorists everything he's worried the leaks are??
that's not the point. the point is that currently many of these god hating terrorists don't even know they're terrorists! if they're told that they're terrorists and under surveillance they might move their communications off gmail! can't let that happen!
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Is there anything real terrorists didn't know before that they know now? It is in the public domain the laws like The Patriot Act means the American government can go to Google and ask for the emails from whatever account they want. Of course they are going be using services out with America and her allies control. All these leaks have shown is the general public is the real enemy of the state.
Its worth mentioning that heart disease, obesity, cancer, famine, smoking, natural disasters, car accidents, and domestic violence each individually kill more people yearly than "Terrorism." Bruce Schneier said it best when he noted we only deploy countermeasures against what terrorists have done, not what they will do. To imply global surveillance of every man woman and child somehow reduces what is already a very rare event is to call attention to the reason we combat terrorism at all. Namely, because Terrorism undermines very controversial foreign policies of certain governments and flies against the interests of their controlling parties. Terrorism may not stop these policies, or even slow them down. However the more terrorist activity occurs, the more the target nation begins to question everything from their elected leadership to the motivation behind the policies that trigger the events. And the events cannot be simply explained away. The best george bush could muster in defining terrorist activity was to say terrorists 'hate our freedom.' If freedom were the real concern, then 180 other nations with varying degrees of equal freedom around the world would certainly be able to confirm this.
What presidents dont say is, "terrorists hate our intrusive foreign policy that installs dictatorships, topples governments, crushes dissent, exploits and degrades the region, and prevents autonomous governance."
the snowden leaks are terrorism in that they empower citizens to actively question and criticize government. Without Snowdens facts, the government absolves itself of a slew of very important questions it would rather not have to answer as it pursues goals strategic to a small minority of its citizens at the expense of the greater good.
Good people go to bed earlier.
Terrorism is not a real threat, at least not in and of itself. The terrorists we concern ourselves with and that our intelligence agencies are often outwitted by are mostly complete morons who can't even blow things up. Even if we had a 9/11 scale event every year, it wouldn't even register as a top cause of lives lost.
This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
I fear my Government more than I fear terrorists.
unethical to continue releasing the data?
http://cryptome.org/2013/10/26-years-snowden.htm
The data exists outside Russia. No new data is been released from Russia.
Other interesting comments
http://cryptome.org/2013/10/nsa-link-removed.htm
http://cryptome.org/2013/10/nsa-tor-disinfo.htm and http://cryptome.org/2013/10/questioning-snowden-truth.htm
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
A police-, surveillance- or totalitarian state is the most despicable and repulsive form of human organization in modern times. It does more damage than anything else, except maybe total war. What the NSA and their friends in the UK are aiming and preparing for is exactly this however, thinly veiled with a ridiculous claim of "fighting terrorism". We had these tendencies in Europe last century. Nothing was done to stop them, and it finally took two world wars and a cold war to get over them. The latter brought the human race to the brink of extinction several times.
Anything is better than something like that happening again. I really hope they publish everything and make it count.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Well to put that in perspective, the Russian Intelligence Services already have a complete copy and the Chinese Intelligence Services also have a complete copy, so who exactly are they keeping it secret from. Well, we all know that, the voting public who will be outraged at the invasion of privacy. The financial sector who will be deeply disturbed by global insider trading schemes. Many countries, some of which are meant to be allies of the countries doing the most spying. Terrorist not so much, unless they are starting up some new terminology vote-terrorists those that vote against government who support insane 1984 Orwellian scams. Voters who know too much and most be prevented from contacting other voters, voters unafraid to express their opinions and the very worst of all voters who actively vote against the dictates of the military industrial complex, evil vote-terrorists all over the place.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
Hope the Guardian has good offsite backups outside the UK, and preferably a backup newsroom in, say, Reykjavik or somewhere they can use.
I can see this ending with the Met Police and special forces (under MI5 command) raiding the offices, making sure nobody takes anything out and then torching the whole place with very carefully placed thermite charges.
Or economic damage done. If these things were dealt with rationally. Look at countries with a real terrorist problem or that used to have one. They are all still there, including Northern Ireland, Spain, Germany, etc. And they are still there even with the authorities in some of them acting terminally stupid and adding 10000% damage on top of what the terrorists did.
The threat of terrorism is not relevant. The threat of people being scared into irrationality by claims of "terrorism" from governments is severe. The threat of "countermeasures" to terrorism by governments is severe. Establishment of police- and surveillance-states is a few orders of magnitude more problematic that terrorism could ever be. And that is what is clearly going on. One would think people in the west have learned something from the things that happened last century. Apparently not.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
That said, I think it is unethical to continue releasing the data
And spying on Brazilian companies in the name of fighting terrorism is all good?
Terrorists are real.
So are bathtubs, so are stairs and so are traffic accidents, all which cause more lives lost than terrorists.
Any death other than the one of old age is terrible. Accidents happen that cause people to suffer for quite a while before dying. Some people have lost their lives in earthquakes - literally buried alive, waiting days for a rescue that never come. Other people die in house fires in the most horrible agony you might imagine. Therefore, Terrorists do not frighten me any more than an earthquake would.
Oh, sure. Terrorists are horrible people, hell-bent on violating the worst crimes of war possible. They are no stranger to detonating a nuclear bomb in the middle of any decently sized american city. Does that thought scare me? Yes, a bit. But does it make me cower in fear under my bed? No sir. I'm not afraid of these terrorists, because I know that if I'm afraid of them, then I'll always be afraid. The Terrorists have won.
I put my faith in the state to protect me as much as possible from these terrorists, as well as protect my liberties as best can. Unfortunately this paralyzing fear of terrorists have made the state erode my liberties without actually protecting me from terrorists. Therefore, I oppose those changes.
It's not about being stupid or brave. It's about not letting a bunch of jackasses control my life. And as long as I draw breath, they won't.
systemd is not an init system. It's a GNU replacement.
>Anybody who dares to disagree is crucified.
Honestly? This is not reddit.
If you are being 'crucified' at all, it is for lacking nuance on the subject. Viewing things as black and white does not beget 50/50 odds because your views lay along a spectrum. Extreme views tend to result in most people disagreeing with you on some level. It's basic statistics.
---Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right B A START
I see the ketamine is kicking in...
Seriously, Wikileaks, release the key to the insurance file already. There's no reason not to at this point.
I would not assume competency. Maybe its changed but historically MI5 has been anything but :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/posts/BUGGER
I too have been sick of the fear mongering propaganda complex that has overtaken our society in the past several years.
See, you have to start out with something that will leave the target with the impression you are on their side.
However, there is an enormous gulf between McCarthyism and the terrorist threat. No commies blew up airplanes and buildings. No commies went on shooting sprees in malls. No commies set off car bombs in crowded markets. The pink menace wasn't really very menacing at all. It was a false accusation.
Then you shift to a point that seems reasonable enough; that the target will probably agree with, since you only shifted the focus a little. It's cool since we all agree that the propaganda has gotten really thick (it gets thicker with posts like this one). So we're still on the same team.
Terrorists are real. Terrorist individuals and organizations commit atrocities on a near daily basis and regularly and publicly vow to kill large segments of the population or entire nations. Terrorism, unlike communism in the U.S., is a real threat that must not be ignored. But, that doesn't excuse these governments from using it as the go-to excuse for justifying every infringement of rights and nefarious activity, from banning nail clippers to the brave new world.
Then you deliver the real payload. Yeah, the government goes overboard, but we really do need them to keep us safe. Terrorism is real after all (which no one is disagreeing with) and it must not be ignored. On balance, it's a good thing we have our intelligence agencies to watch out for us. You've earned it today, AC.
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
Yes, analogies are not identical. Well done. Have a bikkit.
However, the term "sexual offender" gives images that do NOT include "pissed on a tree where a police officer could see them".
Much like those that are called terrorist are not actually what is considered by the people who agreed to the laws to be used against terrorists to be terrorists.
Such as people whose dogs poop in the streed and don't clean up the poop.
I think it is unethical to continue releasing the data.
What, are you saying it is unethical to report a crime in progress? Are we just supposed to sit here and submit to these violations? Sorry bub, we need to apply the law to everybody if we are expected to show any respect for it. Besides, it turns out that these "terrorists" are business associates in our destabilization efforts in the Middle East and Africa.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
If you work there, you'd better not have a secret cocaine habit or stripper girlfriend on the side. If there's the slightest bit of dirt on you, they're going to out you. I've got a lot of respect for that paper going on under what has to be some frightening pressure.
I swear to God...I swear to God! That is NOT how you treat your human!
At least there is a possibility of having terrorists among your own people (Hello, Mr. McVeigh!). But spying on foreign companies for advantages in business negotiations is inexcusable on the grounds of "terrorism!" That is really where the bullshit crumbles down.
I think it is unethical to continue releasing the data.
Don't worry, if the government wasn't doing anything wrong then it has nothing to hide.
Or maybe that old line is bullshit and the government knows it. Maybe the right to privacy exists for a reason. Exposing how world governments spy on their people is long overdue. The governments didn't want to have this discussion before, they wanted to keep everything hidden, but they decided to go a little too far so now we need to have the talk.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
After the smear campaign the UK government and their willing accomplices at the Daily Fail are running I'm glad they're actually beginning to ramp it up instead of backing away:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2450291/The-Guardian-produced-handbook-help-fanatics-strike-will.html
Instead of mass surveillance of *all* means of communication (terrorists could use any form of communication, wow -- we have to monitor everything!) maybe it would be a much better *and cheaper* idea to ask why there is terrorism and how to combat the source of it. Really, those people have some reason why they do it, even if those reasons are hard to understand from out perspective. I guess for them everything makes perfect sense ...