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Scientology's Fraud Conviction Upheld In France
schwit1 writes "France's top appeals court has upheld a fraud conviction and fines totaling hundreds of thousands of euros against the Church of Scientology, for taking advantage of vulnerable followers. France regards Scientology as a cult, not a religion, and had prosecuted individual Scientologists before, but the 2009 trial marked the first time the organization as a whole had been convicted. 'The head of a parliamentary group on religious cults in France, lawmaker Georges Fenech, hailed the ruling. 'Far from being a violation of freedom of religion, as this American organization contends, this decision lifts the veil on the illegal and highly detrimental practices' of the group, said Fenech. The court case followed a complaint by two women, one of whom said she was manipulated into handing over 20,000 euros in 1998 for Scientology products including an "electrometer" to measure mental energy. A second woman claimed she was forced by her Scientologist employer to undergo testing and enrol in courses, also in 1998. When she refused she was fired.'"
those cult freaks swarm through the streets here, scuttling between the many local 'church' buildings... used to be that they would station young kids (many teenagers) at local flea markets to offer free massages and 'stress tests' to do recruiting...
lately, that approach has switched to the cult using immigrant and non-English speakers to entice other adherents...
CoS is a sickening, freakish cult that obfuscates real-estate and business ownerships, such as drug-rehab centers...
Proof that freedom of Religion isn't always a good thing...
That's not a definition I'm familiar with. What about cults without founders? Do the cargo cults automatically, or never, reach status of religion given that John Frum has never existed?
I prefer the standard "a religion is a cult with an army and a navy". It's an arbitrary definition to do with scale.
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
France distinguishes between "legitimate" religious activity and predatory cults, and therefore how France regards Scientology is absolutely relevant to this news item.
No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
Hubbfart (Hubbard) himself said (direct unaltered quote) : "Scientology is no religion"
It was starter as Dianetics as self-help company to make him a lot of money. The pseudo-religious veneer was invented to protect its business in the 50/60s when the FBI and the IRS chased Hubbfart abs he was prosecuted.
It was a trick. But it is NOT a religion.
What about those religions that aren't like Scientologists? For example, would the world really be a worse place off without Quakers or Jains or other strictly non-violent religions? How about those evil Unitarian Universalists, who basically have built their religion around "We may disagree about invisible beings in the sky, but that doesn't mean we should hate each other"? How about the deeply religious people who more-or-less invented philosophy, mathematics, physics, chemistry, genetics, astronomy, and a few other sciences - should we get rid of them too?
And atheists aren't immune from being the bad guy either: Communist atheists killed off a lot of people for being religious.
How about this for some morality: Killing people, except in defense of self or someone else, is wrong (and worshiping a different invisible guy or the same invisible guy differently isn't a very good reason). Torturing people is wrong. Raping people is wrong. Hurting people, except in defense of self or someone else, is wrong. Stealing (however done) is wrong, but less wrong than hurting, raping, torturing, or murdering. Groups that break those rules are bad, groups that don't are at worst harmless.
I am officially gone from
You're right, I'm in completely agreement, which is why I don't subscribe to any one theological context. However I mention mormonism because one of it's staple proofs is that the Native Americans will have blood ties back to Israel and this has been tested and totally proven not to exist, hence proving one of the main "proofs" of the church false.
He wasn't a third rate science fiction author though. Read his book Final Blackout, about the war in Europe. In 1939, he correctly predicted which country would use the first nuclear bomb in warfare. (Spoiler, it was the US.) Back in the heyday of scifi, he was one of the biggest names.
Also, if you consider he knew enough about the human mind, as well as society, that he created a really crazy set of beliefs and got people to accept them. There are plenty of crackpot false messiahs out there. Not many build a system like his, and have it survive so well after the messiah's death.
He built a fictional world, and got others to believe in it. That's what writers do. So, please, don't consider him to be just another third-rate science fiction author.
If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
forced abortions
slave labor
forceful breakups of families
fraud
murder
all as part of institutional doctrine, not some fringe members acting on their own. the list goes on. It would be great if all they were was a money making scam.
And this isn't just a practice of the distant past either. One of the things that came out of the Scooter Libby/Valerie Plame trial, as a bizarre aside, was that Tom Cruise had actually been meeting with then-Vice-President Dick Cheney to urge him to put sanctions on Germany for banning Scientology. Those are the kind of lengths these people are willing to go to harass anyone that crosses them, even ENTIRE GOVERNMENTS. And that was just ten years ago. Scary shit.
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
There are people in the Netherlands, who sink old fishing nets with attached bits to the bottom of the Oosterschelde estuary (it's a natural reserve, so it doesn't bother boats). Then they wait a few year, put on their diving suits, and go looking at those old fishing nets underwater.
You may wonder why people have this as a hobby.
They do it, because they fully expect that the extremely elusive and rare (in NL) Sepia squids have found those fishing nets as a useful habitat, and found a mate in those murky waters, and have begun a family.
In a similar vein, your question seems really stupid and weird.
But I wonder what you get, if you create a habitat for extremely paranoid people, who like to sit in Captain Picard's chair, swim the murky waters of the Internet all day, unobserved by anyone else, give them the opportunity to meet and work with like-minded individuals, and take pride in manufacturing lies targetted for effect in the broader population. What would happen if you left such a habitat abandoned to the ebb & flow of the normal HR process of a large and rich organization for, say, 20 years. What kind of fascinating creatures would come floating to the top of the food chain?
Who knows. You're not allowed to find out. You'll never find out.
In France, the difference between a cult and a religion is whether they preach being open to the rest of society, versus hiding what you're doing from others.
From a society standpoint, this is the only important criteria.
By that definition, CoS is a cult.