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Citizen Eavesdrops On Former NSA Director Michael Hayden's Phone Call
McGruber writes "The Washington Post has the news that former head of the NSA Michael Hayden took a call while on the Acela train between D.C. and Boston. Hayden was talking to a journalist 'on background', which means the reporter is not allowed to cite Hayden by name. Unfortunately for Hayden, another train passenger overhead the call and live-tweeted it. 'Mattzie continued to livetweet Hayden’s conversations slamming the Obama administration, all the while insisting that he be referred to only on background. The conversation also seemed to touch on Hayden’s time as the Director of the Central Intelligence Agency under President George W. Bush as well. "Hayden was bragging about rendition and black sites a minute ago," Mattzie wrote. Hayden has in the past defended the use of waterboarding against detainees held in various sites around the world, and dismissed torture as a "legal term."'"
When your hangnail hurts, it is easily forgotten by smashing your toe with a hammer.
This might help the situation. If government officials were subjected to the same scruitny and privacy violations the rest of the have-nots suffer, we might be able to straighten this train wreck of a country out.
Were? You think things are better? Our government is executing Americans overseas without a trial(even an unfair one) now.
Of course, it would be worth a lot more if we got more than someone's probably biased interpretation of one side of a phone call. Like, actual quotes would be a lot better. Even then, who knows what the questions were.
Even took a picture with him afterwards.
This is exactly what is required. We all need to out these people, all of them who work for the NSA and CIA, and subject them to constant surveillance, harassment, and ostracism. Perhaps an open source project to map and publicize the personnel of these agencies, as an exercise in democratic resistance to creeping tyranny. Heck, we can even enlist the assistance of kindly freedom-loving people around the world to ensure it will be impossible to shut down. The American government needs to understand the American people are onto them and deem them the enemies of freedom they are. Whether further, more stringent measures are required remains to be seen.
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
We're not torturing anyone anymore? I'm pretty sure the United Nations disagrees.
Torture is not the NSA's job. It's more of a hobby.
I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
Killing (without a trial), sure. Indefinitely detaining (without a trial), sure. Stalking to the ends of the Earth and forcing them to seek political asylum with countries not really known for their own human rights records, sure.
But torturing? Goodness no! How barbaric!
BTW, I have a bridge for sale in San Francisco - Cheap! Only one previous owner, who treated it almost like a national landmark.
Were? You think things are better? Our government is executing Americans overseas without a trial(even an unfair one) now.
It so happened that it was under Obama that whistle blowers are being persecuted
Both Manning and Snowden blew their whistle during the Obama years, and both are being punished by the same administration.
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Reporting on how our government ignores our Rights under all the amendments in the Bill of Rights and the Geneva Conventions.
Everyone is a reporter now.
Everyone.
Hit Record.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Gotta call BS on this. The media were called "message force multipliers" under the Bush administration specifically because they were so amenable to whatever Bush wanted the rest of us to hear. It was independent outlets, like McClatchey, or foreign news services, that reported what might be called "truth."
Gotta call BS on this. The media were called "message force multipliers" under the Bush administration specifically because they were so amenable to whatever Bush wanted the rest of us to hear. It was independent outlets, like McClatchey, or foreign news services, that reported what might be called "truth."
It is strange that you hear this on whomever is in office at the time. "The press is the mouthpiece of Yaya Adminstration."
I guess there must be some magic key that controls the press when you get elected to the highest office to serve the people.
There are no loopholes. It's either legal or it's not.
pity their hate-on bush didn't identify the financial black hole he was creating for his amusement of invading iraq etc
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
You know, if you're a former security official sitting on a train discussing this kind of stuff in the clear -- rude has ceased to apply.
It's not about privacy and politeness -- it's about being an epic asshole discussing things you shouldn't be discussing on a train with other people listening.
And if you're someone who has called torture 'a legal term', you should probably be subjected to it yourself. People who sit behind desks and play semantic games about what constitutes torture are just thugs with official badges.
In fact, those people could be called war criminals in some contexts.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Isn't it a bit rude to actively listen in on other people's conversations, even if you *can* incidentally hear them?
Congratulations! You are now starting to understand the problem of indiscriminate surveillance.
On a side note: if Hayden has nothing to hide, he should be fine with people listening in to his conversations, right?
Look where all this talking got us, baby.
Torture has been a staple of Christianity since at least 1252 when Pope Innocent IV* authorized its use by inquisitors.
[*I can't make these names up, kids.]
You're being serious, but the 'magic key' should be obvious. It goes like this:
"Do you want anyone in government to talk to you ever again?"
If so, you play ball.
Horseshit.
See, the fact that Hayden has actually responded to this and asserted the guy was a liberal activist who misunderstood him
I trust the fact that it happened, I trust the fact that Hayden responded to it, and I don't trust Hayden at all. This is a guy who has claimed that torture was merely a legal definition which could be skirted around -- which in my books makes him a bit of a sleazebag.
Are you suggesting there is evidence this never happened? Or that the guy overhearing truly got it all wrong? People like this love to try to weasel on what they actually said and what it actually meant, but I find it much more plausible than "guy sitting on train makes up conversation between NSA former director and someone else".
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
The mainstream media had (IMHO thankfully) a bit of a hate-on for Bush, so every little thing his administration did wrong was broadcast loud and clear.
Not during the crucial parts of the Bush administration, where things were radically fucked up the most: the first 3 years or so of his administration, where he lied to the world about the Iraq invasion, let Osama escape in Tora Bora, legitimized torture and set up huge budget-busting tax-cuts and Medicare expansions. It took multiple, world-history-course-changing mistakes for the media to finally start questioning him.
They don't seem to have the same diligence towards the current administration, which means we the public doesn't get to see anything ugly until it becomes too big of a story to ignore, and even then it's usually quieted down or distracted from awfully quick.
Simply put, the mistakes haven't been as numerous or as significant, and the accomplishments have actually been more significant. We've got a long way to go before we ever get a president as bad as Bush Jr.
Set aside any partisan feelings you may have and let me put it this way: If the Bush administration handled, say, the whole Benghazi incident exactly the same way our current administration had, would there or would there not be calls for impeachment from the likes of CNBC (as there were very loudly during much of Bush's latter years in office)?
Uh, no, there wouldn't have. How do I know? The massive bungling of the Tora Bora offensive was never questioned while he was in office. By anybody. Contrast letting the entire reason we were in Afghanistan get away due to poor decisions by Bush himself with not optimally responding to an attack on an isolated consulate in what was still basically a war zone. Which one had more long-term ramifications? Which one could have been improved, by how much, and at what cost? That's why your comparison needs to be answered with a massive "No."
The mainstream media (yes, including FOX) tends to be a bit kinder to our current president than the media really should be.
You can't be serious when you include FOX News. They're basically calling him Hitler, Mao and Stalin on a daily basis, call him a Muslim, and do everything just shy of calling for someone to shoot him. Even if you just average FOX News in, it skews the average so far out that the only way to even it out is if MSNBC sends out journalists to literate fellate him under the podium.
And that's even disregarding just the qualititative differences between the two presidencies. Obama is far from perfect - I'm actually starting to think that Clinton was the better politician and president - but he is still miles above what is the worst president in at least the last 70 years. Comparing the two should lead to a difference in treatment.
Those who can, do. Those who can't, sue.
> It is strange that you hear this on whomever is in office at the time. "The press is the mouthpiece of
> Yaya Adminstration."
Its almost as if the press has.....a vested interest in the status quo
> I guess there must be some magic key that controls the press when you get elected to the highest
> office
Yes well when you have such an office, reporters tend to show up when you call a press conference.
> to serve the people.
You still haven't realized that it is a cook book have you?
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
Terrifying someone's mind into complying with interrogation is orders of magnitude better than, say, ripping out fingernails, branding with hot irons, or other things that permanently damage and cripple the subject, don't you think?
"Doing X is better than doing Y" is not a justification for doing X.
Ignorance is a choice
I see what you're saying, and I understand, and I agree that, objectively speaking, being waterboarded is probably 'better' than being, say, branded with hot irons.
The problem is, being tortured doesn't get people to speak truth. It gets people to speak whatever will make the hurting stop. It's not a means of information extraction. There are FAR more effective and safe ways of extracting information.
No, torture is proving a point. And it's not a point that any decent person/group should be making.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
OBSERVATION: When given the means and opportunity to make an actual audio recording of Mr. I-Listen-To-You that would have been admissibly real, capable of rendering into a complete transcript, with real historical value... instead choosing to tap out 3rd party observations.
CONCLUSION: Twitter causes brain damage.
The jury is still out on Slashdot.
<blink>down the rabbit hole</blink>
Who are actively working to cause direct physical harm to the US and it's interests.
Says who? (Hint: the same people who want to kill them)
Where is the evidence? (Hint: it's classified. Nobody can ever see it)
Where is the trial? (Hint: there isn't one)
Where is their chance to defend themselves against their accusers? (I think you get the picture.)
There is absolutely no difference, legally, between a presidential execution order and a Kim Jong il statement to the effect of: "I don't like you. You need to die."
The fact that you support this kind of abuse speaks volumes as to your limited thought processes, and bias against anyone who isn't you.
"City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......