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Israel Helped the NSA Spy on Former French President According To Documents
rtoz writes "It wasn't the US government breaking into the private communications of former French President Nicolas Sarkozy, according to top secret documents unearthed by Edward Snowden and published in Le Monde – it was the Israelis. A four-page internal précis regarding a visit to Washington by two top French intelligence officials denies the NSA or any US intelligence agency was behind the May 2012 attempted break-in – which sought to implant a monitoring device inside the Elysee Palace's communications system – but instead fingers the Israelis, albeit indirectly. A few days back, Le Monde reported that the NSA Intercepted French Telephone Calls 'On a Massive Scale' ."
I mean, they paid on the "One day I will call upon you to do a service for me" variety plan, but here we are.
It's too bad that system wasn't trained on the charlatans on Wall Street so their crimes could have been accounted for and punished. You know these guys are stupid enough to brag on the phone and via email about their crimes... All the hysterical email leaks from the last crisis prove that out pretty handily. These guys are so arrogant they think themselves "above the law" because they "figured it out."
Who did what now?
The US NSA is the very first thing you are looking for in a good partner: a good listener!
This is becoming better and better all the time...
The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
Because the brave journalists with integrity who aren't shills to the broader agenda are staggering their releases over a period of time to keep this in the public eye, the story would be buried with another Miley Cyrus or school shooting distraction if they blew their wad all at once. They are doing the right thing, fighting the good fight, and discrediting and bringing light to the corporatist warmongering pigs and the crypto-Zionists pulling their strings.
-- Ethanol-fueled
We all know the Israeli secret services are total bastards , they killed Arafat spy on everyone etc .. We all know the NSA is again total bastards that stop at nothing. What we need to know is how to defeat them and pull the reins back in and get back in control of those gone rogue agencies that have respect for neither Constitution ,Law nor Country . The secret services play by a different set of rules .. you have the right to do everything , as long as you don't get caught . ... but your warning ,in the end , changed nothing.
They got caught , yet face none of the consequences. Game over. Total surveillance is now a reality and that's it. As long as noone marches in on the capitals around the world by the millions , why should they change anything ? Noone opposes . Thank you George Orwell
Considering how much spying Israel does on the U.S., and all the secrets they've stolen from us in exchange for unequivocal support at the UN, and then ask to have their spies returned to them because they're "heroes", this shouldn't surprise anyone.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
From these "world leaders" to journalists, why all of the 'surprise?' Spying is one of the things that governments do, ALL of them. They ALL spy on their allies and foes alike and it has always been this way. In the US/Israel context, we both spy on each other all day, every day, and assist with information on other countries too. France does the same thing, so does England. Nothing new here.
Time Bomber the Book coming soon.
We KNOW all about the intercepts now, why is it a headline everytime The Guardian throws-out a new "discovery"?
Eyeballs.
Time Bomber the Book coming soon.
Keith, is that you?
I understand his reasons for releasing information about domestic spying, but what good reason does he have for releasing information about spying on the international scene?
Some people die at 25 and aren't buried until 75. -Benjamin Franklin
My question is: Where are all the nationalistic flag waving types now - usually they are very vocal when our constitution is violated on such a massive scale, or various countries National security is violated in such a brazen systematic way. Has the French right wing press (for example) not turned on the heat to mobilize their outrage - why not?
Because the world != US only, and yes, we care.
Because...Fuck You!
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
The thing about all this is, the speed of the reaction is inversely proportional to the size of the truth. When a reality star is caught with drugs, the reaction is instantaneous. When Congress self-destructs, it takes months and years for the reaction and its consequences to fully unfold. What we're talking about here is the ripping away of the entire illusion under which we've been living the past 60 years. It's big, and most people don't even want to try to wrap their heads around what it means; but denial won't make it go away. This is a turning point in history, mark my words.
From here, more forward-thinking people and groups will begin moving in different directions than before and when the changes come they will be breath-taking. Recall the fall of the Berlin Wall. Glasnost and Perestroika had been going on for years at that point under Gorbachev, and suddenly in the space of a few weeks the Berlin Wall fell, and nearly every country locked away behind the Iron Curtain was free. It took another two years for Romania and Russia to sort themselves out, but they did.
What shape will those changes take, exactly? Who knows. But eventually Washington DC must fall and its masters brought to justice. We may suffer through a true police state with gulags before then, but eventually we will have a new social compact. I hope that the reset is clean, with none of the old masters surviving into the new system. Those sociopaths threaten the entire species.
Do what you can, with what you have, where you are.
If you read the actual source, all it says is that the NSA did not ask Israel whether it was responsible for the tapping.
Even the Le Monde article, a commentary on the source material, does not claim that Israel targeted the french. The strongest statement that Le Monde makes regarding Israel is: "The NSA does not say that the Mossad carried out the attack but nevertheless, seems to consider it necessary to mention the existence of a reasonable doubt as regards the Jewish state."
Thanks Antiwar for another misleading article deliberately trying to blame Israel for something there is no evidence of.
Read the last lines.
"The American authorities noted that the activities of the intelligence service "were carried out according to law"."
It's almost like a confession from the US.
Main article says, France evidence points to USA. US denies it. US says it asked 1st and 2nd party countries if they did it, they say no. It did not ask Israel because Israel won't talk to US about France.
Hence finger points to Israel. Israel denies it.
Occams razor.
Look, the evidence says it was US, US spied on Merkel, US practically confesses when asked "it was done legally" and has all the tools and bases and so on.
NSA.
This is yellow journalism. When you have actual facts (which engineers and nerds actually thrive on) please re-post.
er... this is /.'s report on these reports - you're going to have to read the dupes too!
We KNOW all about the intercepts now, why is it a headline everytime The Guardian throws-out a new "discovery"?
Correction... WE know all about the intercepts now. But the mass audience the Guardian wants to reach isn't as well informed. Also, they appear to be attempting to leverage pressure from both internal targets of the NSA (i.e. citizens of the United States) and inappropriate external ones to exert more pressure on the government to do the right thing.
Who did what now?
Yeah, Russia sure sorted itself out, what with Tsar Vladimir's sham elections and everything.
Oh, but they changed their flag back to the old European-style tricolor instead of the big red one, so that makes everything okay.
Snowden handed a large set of documents to a few journalists with explicit instructions on how to get it out there without doing unnecessary harm, actually. We won't see this information harming active surveillance or active efforts.
But 'international scene' makes it sound like you think the French are legitimate espionage targets. When they are almost the only state willing to follow you militarily into Syria, it is perhaps not a good idea for it to be shown your intelligence agency is eavesdropping on them. It begins to look like manipulation.
It's good for Europe to know how much not to trust you. It's somewhat hilarious to us in the UK that it was ever even a remote possibility that David Cameron might have been spied on; couldn't they just have phoned and demanded he tell them what they want?
I don't know what Snowden's reasons are, but the rest of the world thanks him for giving us proof of what is going on.
trollolol. whine harder fatty.
So this is the "let's accuse the Israelies so that the US would have no choice but to admit that it was really us" trick? Thanks. I think I already saw that episode of West Wing.
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
there IS not good reason. It's The Guardian trying to stir-up shit and get readership.
And actually he isn't. He may be hurting the interests of the powerful in the USA. Not those of the people.
If, and once this mess is cleared, the rest of the world might hold citizens of the USA in higher esteem. I know I'm looking forward to it.
So, citizens of the USA: grab this chance. Show that you mean your values, that those values aren't just some marketing terms buried in an old and smelly document.
Go for it!
It's because Snowden doesn't consider those without US citizenship as subhumans, like you do.
I understand his reasons for releasing information about domestic spying, but what good reason does he have for releasing information about spying on the international scene?
Because he's not just an upstanding, patriotic American, he's an upstanding, patriotic human.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
When Congress self-destructs,
Ah, to dream the impossible dream...
Hate to tell ya, bud, but all that 'self-destruction' we've seen of late is nothing but partisan brinkmanship, and has all become just another part of the political game; you can tell by the fact that congresscritters are still on TV blaming each other, rather than hiding from the lynch mobs, in fear for their lives.
I will say, I learned something from this latest government shutdown - we, the People, don't really seem to need feds quite as much as the try and convince us we do.
An enigma, wrapped in a riddle, shrouded in bacon and cheese
I do in fact consider France a legitimate target. They spy on the U.S. as well.
"L'Express, the French news magazine, citing intelligence sources in both Paris and Washington, disclosed the French spying operation. It described the cases involving IBM and Texas Instruments, which reportedly took place between 1987 and 1989. The report said that much of the spying was aimed at helping France's Groupe Bull. "
http://www.nytimes.com/1991/09/14/news/14iht-spy_.html
Some people die at 25 and aren't buried until 75. -Benjamin Franklin
So. /.ers should know better than most the the sheeple do not pay attention to security, except for trying to do an end run around it because they can't watch the YouTube vid at work... People posting to FB tells us more than most want to know, and they do freely This is a straw-man story again.
They are above ALL laws. Gentiles will always be their slaves unless we finally rise, resist and purge this cancer.
Oh please. They are staggering the releases to do maximum harm to the U.S. and to keep their own names in the news longer. It's showing their blatant anti-us bias more than anything.
Stop using that signature, I am the real Ethanol-fueled!
Don't listen to the impostor above.
-- Ethanol-fueled
You'll never stop the anti-Semitic Ron Paul dick-sucking brigades from blaming everything on Israel.
Spied. You had to go back 20+ years.
Sure, other nations have their skeletons in the closet too. But you know, it doesn't justify lying to them. If the Germans are such vile dogs as to deserve no privacy from the US, then let them know. Don't pretend you are the best of friends and would never consider such an act.
If there is no trust between you, very well, state that fact and let it be at that. But if you pretend there's trust, expect reactions when that trust is shown to be broken.
xkcd is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
Correction... WE know all about the intercepts now. But the mass audience the Guardian wants to reach isn't as well informed.
What that puerile bitch Snookie is up to (and like-minded garbage) is sadly much more important to them.
The minority who try their best to be aware don't deserve to reap what the majority have sown.
It is a miracle that curiosity survives formal education. - Einstein
I don't understand your surprise.
Not 'precious' Israel! They can do no wrong!
Israel Helped the NSA Spy on Former French President According To Documents
Where does it say Israel helped the NSA? The French accused the US, the US denied it, asked everyone else about it (except the Israelis) and everyone else denied it as well. Right?
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
You know, all this confusion could be avoided by having an account and signing in.
-- Ethanol-fueled (Not a signature, just a statement of my condition)
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
So you think they suddenly stopped? Here's one from 2009. http://www.france24.com/en/20110104-france-industrial-espionage-economy-germany-russia-china-business
While they are making a public fuss, France and Germany are not really surprised the U.S. is spying on them, just as we are not surprised they spy on us. Business is still pushed forward as usual.
Some people die at 25 and aren't buried until 75. -Benjamin Franklin
... the corporatist warmongering pigs and the crypto-Zionists pulling their strings.
I've heard things like that before. You think the ^wJews Zionist are behind it all? Yes, I think I hear music, I'm just not sure if it's from a play like this, or a parade like that.
The European Left and Its Trouble With Jews
If you are the real "Ethanol-fueled," it's time for treatment.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
The horse - it is bloody. Please just leave it alone and stop beating it :(
At no point in the document does the NSA say that Israel planted listening devices. People are doing some very heavy reading between the lines. That's a nice way for the NSA to pin blame on a scapegoat and then turn around saying they never said any such thing.
People will believe what they want. If they hold a grudge against Israel they will believe this. But if you are interested in the truth and have read what the document *actually* says, at no point was Israel found to be spying.
The NSA is SUPPOSED to be spying on foreign countries. IS that not what our spy agencies do? (CIA, NSA, etc). The issues is with them spying on Americans. Hell, I WANT them tapped into every other government on the planet. The more we know about others, the better for us. Just stay out of my damn e-mail.
(To be fair, I also understand that, say, the french spy agency, would be trying to spy on OUR government. that's how the world works)
Its just that this asshole continues to hap hazardly condemn innocent American lives with his wild hairs up his ass and has no way to shore up the safety for American lives he is endangering by these leaks. He has to be stopped. God Damn Him.
...who spends 25% of their published budget blatantly on industrial espionage on guess who...the UK, US, Canada, China, Germany, and others...
The international espionage is pretty much *yawn*. Anyone who has ever followed international politics on any level knows everybody does it to each other. And all the players certainly know it.
Where the outrage, what little there has been frankly, is the fact that those capabilities were turned inward domestically that has some people ticked off. Again many of us highly suspected this was going on, but we lacked proof. It doesn't surprise me when it comes to things like parallel construction and massive dragnets. Yes it should be illegal, but even if it is, there are ways around it such as giving our cousins over at GCHQ the access, let them do the spying on americans and pass it back in the name of "cooperation".
What saddens me is that the only thing that can stop this insanity are the people of the United States. And most don't seem to care. As long as there is Football on the weekends to keep the masses entertained...
I said after 9/11 there were some things we needed to look at like adding armored cockpit doors to airplanes, reassessing and even so far as banning sharped objects on carryon. We needed some sort of centralized intelligence operations. It was clear there was too much politicking for budgets instead of working together. US Intelligence had all the pieces, but spread across too many agencies that wouldn't work together. That needed to be addressed by eliminating and folding agencies. Instead we got DHS. It was sold as just that kind of agency. Instead we've ended up with what is increasingly turning into a domestic para-military agency. I know, they don't have M1 Abrams yet, but they do have their own helicopter gun ships and APC's. TSA has gone from airport rentacops to VIPR teams...
I remember a couple years ago they were doing drills with the US Army & MO National Guard patrolling the streets of North St. Louis as though it was a war zone (Which maybe arguably it is) in an "Urban Pacification Drill". When the news interviewed locals they welcomed the show of force. The benefit of a doubt part of me knew this was the National Guard showing off some new toys it had gotten. But there is a part of me that also raised an eyebrow.
If you look at the past 10 - 12 years there's been a chess game afoot here in the US. The governments been setting the board. They've got small scale operations down. Look at how quickly they locked down Boston earlier in the year. Look at how quickly the people followed the orders to cower indoors because of 2 kids.
We aren't quite there yet, but unless something drastic changes and soon, we're one major "event" away from waking up and no longer in the land of free.
"The problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money" - Thatcher.
Wait, aren't you that NSA shill that tries to discredit Snowden in every story?
-- Ethanol-fueled
Next up: Hill-Billy aka Hillary Rodham Clinton. She will detail how she approved to the usage of USA Embassy Buildings in Germany and other European places including Asia, Africa, Australia, Central America, South America and Canada for electronic espionage operations.
Also to be up: George (Johnny) Walker Bush and his escapades of drunken debauchery while President.
Get the pop-corn a pop'n Batman!
If it was the Guardian making this claim, it would have some bearing. They have some authority in the leaks and have the source material to find this information.
French media just likes to blame Israel and Jews for everything, so I find little credibility to this article.
Unless I missed something in the article, everything basically says the US and Israel both deny having any involvement in spying on the French. The Guardian printed that it was the NSA that was spying on the French. While I wouldn't be surprised if Israel also spied on the French, I have not seen any such evidence provided.
The French article seems to take Israel's denial and that because Israel wasn't mentioned in the leaked NSA documents as the responsible party that obviously they must be involved.
These kind of Israeli/Jewish conspiracy theories appear regularly in French media, but they don't belong on Slashdot. My Dad's family is from France and Belgium and it is amazing some of the stuff I've seen my grandparents read in French mainstream newspapers. Antisemitism is apparently so bad in France today that Jews that had left France pre-WWII and moved back have been leaving again because they don't feel safe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_France#Post-World_War_II:_North_African_Jewish_migration - See the "Antisemitism and Immigration" section).
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There is a global bankers' conspiracy, they do manipulate governments, and there is nothing intrinsically anti-Semitic about saying so.
As the only nuclear power in the ME, dedicated to KEEPING that monopoly, a capacity they have used to blackmail the U.S. twice (see U.S.A.F. War College publication "The Bomb In The Basement" for details), Israel requires every advantage they can get to avoid sanctions for Gaza and the West Bank, mass murders like Sabrah and Shatilla and the "break the bones" policy. Thus, be absolutely sure they have their hands into the NSA spy files, either legally or "Lawrence Franklin" style via AIPAC.
Israel helped Israel spy on the French
There, fixed that for you.
In fact, this newspaper has even been found guilty by a French court for "racist defamation" against Israel and the Jewish people in the past.
Sources:
http://rense.com/general65/aanit.htm
http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/mideastdispatches/archives/000375.html
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1415355/posts
As a poster below pointed out, the NSA practically confessed to the spying:
The American authorities noted that the activities of the intelligence service "were carried out according to law."
And the documents in the article stated that the NSA said it wasn't a joint operation with the Israelis. The Israeli prime minister's office made an official statement claiming they were not involved.
All evidence points to the NSA with no Israeli involvement.
This article is nothing but antisemitism and has no place on Slashdot.
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called Fox News. I know it is addicting to watch, but watching too much will mess up your logic.
As others on this thread have pointed out, the harm being done isn't to the entire US - it's being done to our elites. The American people are better off knowing the truth.
Totally fitting captcha: Idolatry
or by PGP signing your messages, but people on slashdot these days love to talk the talk and not follow through on it.
There might be some truth to these claims if Snowden defended himself in a US court of law(as opposed to the PR offensive) with them. Shame that there isn't a greater pursuit to making it perilous to even have the information in hand.
The only proof so far is based on reaction to claims.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
Neither denies. Israel never denies or confirms. USA confirmed but refused to comment on israeli involvement. If Israel wasn't involved they would have denied israeli involvement. Learn to read political and diplomatic subspeak. Making up your own "israeli denials" won't help your hasbara tactics as today anyone can google anything, any time they have access to internet, and they do usually have it when they are commenting on a internet forum.
dszd0g: Maybe you should use more reputable sources when clanking down on reputable sources.
USA basically confirmed and said it was not a joint operation with Israel.
If Israel wasn't involved they would have denied israeli involvement.
The Israeli office of the Prime Minister denied and the USA said it wasn't a join operation. I'm not sure what more you want.
I don't know how you can argue that lack of proof that Israel was involved proves that they were.
As far as reputable sources for the Le Monde being found guilty, google "Le Monde found guilty racist defamation". There are dozens of other places that provided the news. Pick whichever ones you do find reputable. Wall Street Journal has it behind its pay wall, but I didn't want to link to a pay wall.
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USA, Israel and the UK form the greatest terrorist group in history.
I've been sensing and saying this for years now, hopefully it seems like it's soon to be accepted as the obvious truth.
We should shutdown all diplomatic and economical links with those countries and treat them as enemies of peace and freedom from now on until their behavior becomes acceptable.
Also, as enemies, any coercive action undertaken against that group of countries is now fully justified and should be legal.
NSA, Mossad, MI6, your time has come.
Million come from Canada.. You've seen our Canadian geese in the winter?
Sadly, the right wingers are most often on the side of the authorities. That's what it means to be a right wing authoritarian; they will succumb to the powers that be even if they railed against it just a day before, once they exercise that power. This is a global phenomenon, and history proves it has been happening for quite a long time.
The only reason why US is harmed by those releases is because US (or rather its government) did some seriously fucked-up shit in secret. Now that it's out in the open, instead of owning up and apologizing, you keep pretending that it's nothing bad, while at the same time scrambling like mad to get revenge on Snowden for exposing you with pants down. It would be sad if it wasn't so hilarious to watch. I wonder what it is the next thing that Obama (or Holder) is going to deny that will be proven to be false by the next release, showing them for the assholes that they are. Gotta get some more popcorn...
Oh please. They are staggering the releases to do maximum harm to the U.S. and to keep their own names in the news longer. It's showing their blatant anti-us bias more than anything.
Nope, just counter-manipulating the manipulators. Politicians routinely frame debates and do things like announcing embarrassing stuff on Friday evening.
Oh please. They are staggering the releases to do maximum harm to the U.S. and to keep their own names in the news longer. It's showing their blatant anti-us bias more than anything.
I'm pretty sure that reporting the evil acts of the United States government and exposing the hypocrisy of our security state isn't "bias." A better term would be "doing their jobs as journalists." And thank goodness--the press isn't yet completely in sway of an elite, wealthy class of oligarchs hell-bent for leather on wiping out democracy.
But, in a few more generations...
Who did what now?
Ah, the old strategy of posting a link that doesn't say remotely what you suggest, and hoping readers don't notice.
That link reports an complaint, an unsubstantiated, unspecific allegation from a German contractor, that "the French" (not necessarily French intelligence, could be French industry directly) do industrial espionage a lot. Headline could be "Spurned German contractor doesn't like the French!"
It's kind of different from proof of spying on heads of state, you know?
As I said: Breach of trust. Whatever you think they "should" know, it's clear some heads of state expected the US to actually stand by its word and not lie to their face about spying on them.
xkcd is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.
The article shows that France is spying on its allies. The fact they don't have the technological ability to tap the U.S. president doesn't mean they aren't trying.
Some people die at 25 and aren't buried until 75. -Benjamin Franklin