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Thanks to Neutrino Detector, We Might Get a Good Look At the Next Supernova
sciencehabit writes "The last star to go supernova in the Milky Way—that astronomers know of—exploded in 1604, before Galileo first turned a telescope to the heavens. But with a neutrino detector now being built within a Japanese mountain that could come online as early as 2016, researchers might be able to do something as yet undone: Make detailed observations of a supernova in our galaxy before it visibly explodes. First, astronomers would be alerted to the unfolding event by the flood of neutrinos generated when a supernova collapses. Within minutes, they could determine the general area of the sky where the explosion would occur, point their infrared telescopes in that direction, and wait for the fireworks. With the new sensor in place, instruments—especially infrared telescopes—would have an almost 100% chance of observing the next supernova in our galaxy, the researchers report."
Concentrated fissionable material produce antineutrinos.
What better way to enlarge the NSA's purview than to let it take a chunk out of the particle physics budget by controlling neutrino detection technology?
It's good that the Japanese are funding this, because at the rate European and US basic research funds are going, I doubt we'll be able to detect much of anything by 2016...
well milky way is just 100k lightyears.. soo.. detecting one in the milky way, it would have had to happen long after the earth was here.
maybe you need a new job, though 80k is pretty good globally if you're talking about dollars... for any job.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
If you want to feel small go out in your back yard in the summer (not near the 4th of July) and look up at the sky. Turn off the porch light, and if you have to - ask the neighbors to turn off theirs. This is the Milky Way. You'll see a cloud that goes beyond what you can see, each point in it another sun with worlds like our own. We fight over square miles, and here are whole worlds beyond number, so common that your eye cannot put one from the other.
Help stamp out iliturcy.
If the supernova that this detector is designed to spot comes from within our galaxy, as they are looking for, then the star that exploded did so less than 100,000 years ago (approximately). That is well within the lifespan of our solar system.
Our sun is not likely to generate a supernova, as it has too little mass. Because there is no companion star in orbit of our sun, it is not even likely to go nova. The expectation is that several hundred million, or a billion or so years from now the sun will run out of hydrogen and switch to burning helium. At that time the energies involved will cause the sun to grow to become a red giant, which is likely to have consumed both Mercury and Venus, and possibly Terra as well. Once the energy of that process is released, (i.e. the sun runs out of Helium) the sun will collapse to a white dwarf, that will be about the size of the earth. It will continue to consume whatever remaining Hydrogen and Helium atoms are in it, but unless it collides with another star or star remnant, that's going to be the end of it's energy releasing days.
As to it destroying all traces of our existence, not so much. Even if everything in orbit and on the moon, and even the planet earth itself are destroyed, we have a lander on Titan that is likely to survive, several landers on Mars that may still be recognizable, and several interstellar missions that will still be moving. Voyager 1 is currently traveling at 17km/s, or 61,200km/h. (Which does exceed escape velocity for the sun.) While that speed will drop over time before the gravity of the sun is overcome by the gravity of other stars that will affect the flight path of Voyager 1, it is not expected to drop below 10km/s or 36,000km/h. At that speed it will travel 315,360,000 kilometers per year, a little over 1051 light seconds. (over 17 light minutes.) It will take over 1,800,000 years to travel a light year. In 100 million years it will be over 40 light years from the sun. While that may not be any great shakes as far as intergalactic distances go, it's definately far enough to avoid the effects of even a supernova if our sun were massive enough to go that route. It is possible that it will be destroyed by other stars going supernova in that time, or more likely later, but that is not a given. So even if we don't get off this rock, which I sincerely hope we can accomplish before we destroy ourselves, I expect that there will still be a trace of our existence in the universe.
You never know...
When I read news like this, my lousy programming job that pays 80k a years, seems like a total bullshit, compared to this.
If you feel this way, you should realize that it's never too late to go back to university, get a PhD and join the research effort in some capacity. You'll likely find that you won't earn as much as an academic than if you had stuck to a career in programming, but your work will be more interesting and fulfilling.
You can never know everything, and part of what you do know will always be wrong. Perhaps even the most important part.
I think you are off by two orders of magnitude on the voyager data. Assuming you are correct that it will be coasting at around 10km/s, the speed of light is about 3x10^8 m/s or 3x10^5 km/s so voyager will travel a light year in approximately 3x10^4 = 30,000 years, not 1.8 million years. In 100 million years it will have traveled ~3,333 light years.
There are about 8 comparable telescopes...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_neutrino_experiments
Which makes me wonder why this one is more likely than any of the others to detect a supernova.
If you pay is above the national average (even more so if it is twice the national average) you have good pay for the country you are in.
80k is intrinsically pretty good. That sense of entitlement won't serve you well in the long term.
I assume you meant no disrespect, but "Mass" begins with a capital "M". At Mass, my brain is in fact less constrained by its need for oxygen. I pray for my own short lifespan to become greater so I can attend even more sessions of Mass. I agree there's an amazing amount of universe out there and we do need to get our act together. We need to speedily apply forces to our worst enemies and make aliens spend their time at Mass too.
I love you.
Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
those super novas are so far away, and might have existed even longer than earth and our solar system.
Not in their own frame of reference. They explode precisely because they're too heavy, after a fairly short life. Remember, obesity can screw your retirement plans!
Ezekiel 23:20
The expectation is that several hundred million, or a billion or so years from now the sun will run out of hydrogen...
Make that slightly more than five billion years. Although, a few hundred million years from now, Earth will be a nasty place anyway, because of the fairly regular 1% increase in solar luminosity per every 100 My.
....and switch to burning helium. At that time the energies involved will cause the sun to grow to become a red giant, which is likely to have consumed both Mercury and Venus, and possibly Terra as well.
You mean that a helium flash will occur. But isn't that actually supposed to happen AFTER the Sun becomes a red giant? I think it is.
Once the energy of that process is released, (i.e. the sun runs out of Helium) the sun will collapse to a white dwarf, that will be about the size of the earth. It will continue to consume whatever remaining Hydrogen and Helium atoms are in it, but unless it collides with another star or star remnant, that's going to be the end of it's energy releasing days.
Again, vastly simplified and potentially misleading.
it is not expected to drop below 10km/s or 36,000km/h. At that speed it will travel 315,360,000 kilometers per year, a little over 1051 light seconds. (over 17 light minutes.) It will take over 1,800,000 years to travel a light year.
Your numbers are somewhat off, because 1,800,000 years at 10 km/s actually gives sixty light years. Obviously, the figure can become substantially different depending of the actual trajectory.
Ezekiel 23:20
You're thinking of gravitational waves. Neutrinos have been (indirectly) detectable since 1956, and that detection won the Nobel prize.
http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/laureates/1995/index.html
have neutrinos actually been detected yet?
Kinda sorta. Their existence has been inferred by experimental results.
Here is a nicely written neutrino primer for humans that answers your detection question. If you already know everything about the subject, visit the Wiki neutrino page to learn what you already know, revel in the obviousness of it all and have a good chuckle at the expense of folks like me who find it to be very jargony.
I first learned of neutrinos while doing web research on Neapolitan ice cream. This amazing ice cream has three flavors, and it appears that neutrinos also have three flavors. This cannot be a coincidence. Since any unified theory which does not include ice cream must be incomplete, I see this as evidence that we are close to solving some great puzzle.
If you are at a cocktail party and overhear particle physicists in a discussion of the "Solar Neutrino Problem", step right up and say that it was Mean Mr. Sun who ate all the chocolate, leaving us to detect only the yucky vanilla and strawberry -- he even left the spoon in the freezer! You will be greeted with smiles and knowing glances, and they might even invite you on the road to tour with them. Particle physicists are always surrounded by groupies and hot women.
<blink>down the rabbit hole</blink>
But hey, let's keep sitting here talking about horrible jobs with ovens and the salaries we should pay
Ok, we will, since you asked so nicely. So what salary do you think an oven stuffer should be paid?
We fight over square miles, and here are whole worlds beyond number, so common that your eye cannot put one from the other.
While I appreciate the sentiment, the fact is those other worlds beyond number are REALLY hard to reach, and not everyone appreciates the sentiment.
It's like we're in a playground with a lot of bullies and a limited supply of goods, and every year there are more of us and more bullies, but not any more goods--we just occasionally figure out how to use them better. It doesn't matter how big the world is, or how many worlds there are, if we can't breach the walls of our playground and make it across the interstate to the next one.
We should try, of course. But here we are, in the meantime.
"I see
The imminent death of twenty thousand men,
That for a fantasy and trick of fame
Go to their graves like beds, fight for a plot
Whereon the numbers cannot try the cause,
Which is not tomb enough and continent
To hide the slain"
Hamlet, Act IV, Scene 4.
Novas , less than super, produced by Chevrolet from 1962 -1988 tend to leak oil, wear rings out and rust. It was not marketed in Mexico as the Nova or No Va (no go in Espanol) rather it was the Omega ( the last car anyone would want to be stuck with) the Mexicans cursed.
If the sun goes up in flames, certainly we hope Chevrolets budget offerings go with it.
Revere your work, pat yourself on the back, you have more on the ball than Chevrolet and your code may live beyond the life of a Nova.
Meanwhile you can tithe 10% of that $80,000 to The Electric Church c/o Rev. Fly N. Eye, in appreciation of your awe of the universe, for a special blessing my son.
*Repent!Quit Your Job!Slack Off!The World Ends Tomorrow and You May Die!
Yes, neutrinos have been detected in this type of detector for many, many years - in 1987 the neutrino's from SN1987A were detected by several of these detectors.
See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutrino
and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SN_1987A
For the actual papers, consult the "sources" listing at the end of each Wikipedia entry.
The article is technically accurate but this isn't anything new. And yes, neutrinos will arrive before the light from an exploding supernova. There is already a large detector filled with heavy water that can do this in Sudbury, Ontario, Canada. It has been around for a decade. And this is one of the things it is advertised to do.
http://www.snolab.ca/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudbury_Neutrino_Observatory
Why yes, neutrinos have been detected. The relevant paper is this: C. L Cowan Jr., F. Reines, F. B. Harrison, H. W. Kruse, A. D McGuire (July 20, 1956). "Detection of the Free Neutrino: a Confirmation". Science 124 (3212): 103â"4. Note the date. Frederick Reines won the 1995 Nobel Prize for these experiments that established the existence of the neutrino.
It's hard to say that they're indirect detections. How do we even detect something like an electron? By the fundamental forces like electromagnetism, which is no different in principle from the methods used to detect neutrinos, which work by weak nuclear force interactions. The trouble is that neutrinos are affected only by gravity and the weak nuclear force (making them an example of a dark matter WIMP), so detecting them is rather hard, given that the forces involved are so weak.
Qu'on me donne six lignes écrites de la main du plus honnête homme, j'y trouverai de quoi le faire pendre.
What do you mean "indirectly"? We detect them via their direct interaction with matter. This is the same as it is for every other particle that we can detect. The only difference is that neutrinos do it far less often than most others.
There are several features that you need to detect supernovae with neutrinos: good direction resolution, large enough mass to detect multiple neutrinos from the supernova and low enough energy sensitivity. Detectors like IceCube have a huge mass (1 km^3 of ice) and good directional accuracy but they cannot detect the low energy neutrinos from a supernova. Other detectors in the list use chemical methods (neutrinos will cause inverse beta decay) but these have the mass and energy sensitivity but give no directional information. This is the first experiment to have the right mix of all the parameters.
I guess astronomers were tired of 10 year old kids repeatedly discovering supernovas before they did.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
But at least defiantly passes the spellchecker.
Godwinned within an hour of posting. On an article about a fucking neutrino detector. Way to go, guys.