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Snowden Publishes "A Manifesto For the Truth"
wjcofkc writes "In the turbulent wake of the international uproar spurred by his leaked documents, Mr. Snowden published a letter over the weekend in Der Spiegel titled, "A Manifesto for the Truth". In the letter, Mr. Snowden reflects on the consequences of the information released so far, and their effect on exposing the extent and obscenity of international and domestic surveillance, while continuing to call out the NSA and GCHQ as the worst offenders. He further discusses how the debate should move forward, the intimidation of journalists, and the criminalization of the truth saying, 'Citizens have to fight suppression of information on matters of vital public importance. To tell the truth is not a crime.'"
More like a minifesto.
"Yeah, well here's our manifesto of everyone STFU, IF YOU KNOW WHAT'S GOOD FOR YOU!!"
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
He's going to be portrayed as a complete nutjob by the American corporations/government and their press lackeys no matter WTF he calls it.
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
Capitalism promotes selfishness.
Selfishness promotes control.
Control of information is a type of control.
Control of the government is another type of control.
So powerful people will control both.
And so the modern role of signals intelligence: to watch you, to separate the majority who are of no consequence, from the minority who run a serious risk of making a difference.
The solution is a scaling back of capitalism. And not a replacement with Soviet state capitalism, either, even though their surveillance had nothing on modern UKUSA.
that this will go to waste. No mainstream media in the US will report this, and if they do, it will be spun into a negative light. Now we got posters on here, the Guardian, and other sites that are obvious shills or just plain dumb.
To tell the truth is not a crime.
Yes, it is. You may have some moral justification, but it can still be a crime. In the US, telling the truth about intelligence techniques to real and potential enemies is a crime, even if you also tell the public. Snowden broke the law, and is now a criminal evading law enforcement, but he satisfied his own conscience.
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
truth actually a crime, actually
Only if it's truth that embarrasses the government and corporations that rule this country. You're free to tell all the benign truth you wish, citizen. You may also debate the merits of which of the two allowed parties is more worthy of your vote, that of Kang or that of Kodos.
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
I especially liked the part where they told him that he did it wrong, that telling the newspapers was bad.
The correct course of action was to call the people in power and let them know they're spying on the population.
No sig today...
The Declaration of Independence is a manifesto. It just wasn't titled as such.
A manifesto simply explains the motivations and reasoning behind actions. It's a common trait of psychopaths and sociopaths, because they feel that their actions are completely logical, but the rest of society just needs a good explanation to wake up and rally to their cause.
Snowden doesn't need to explain his motivation to recruit followers, as the public outrage over surveillance is already quite significant. This seems to be less of a manifesto, and more of a reflection.
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
How long? I want to know how long until Snowden is given a medal by congress. He deserves a Gold Medal, at least as much as a Walt Disney, or Roberto Clemente, or a Danny Thomas. Browse the list yourself - some of the people who have been awarded a Gold Medal may have sacrificed more, or done more than Snowden. But Edward stands head and shoulders over a mere sports figure, or a Hollywood icon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Congressional_Gold_Medal_recipients
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
It's like posting something in favor of gun control on a site lousy with NRA members... you're automatically assumed to be Nancy Pelosi.
But would they spy on the call to themselves to let them know they're spying? And would they know they were spying on the call about spying on the call about spying on the call about spying on the call...
This has been another edition of Meta Monday.
Seriously, he worked for the NSA, one agency in one country. How the fuck would he know who the worst offenders of international and domestic surveillance are? There are hundreds of countries with multiple spy agencies. He had access to some of the information about one and maybe some information about a few more. And, he thinks this qualifies him to make judgments about the internal and external surveillance apparatus of EVERY OTHER COUNTRY HE HAS NO INFORMATION ABOUT, including Russia, China, and North Korea? Really?
Lack of information about the internal and external surveillance apparatus of a country doesn't mean that country doesn't have an extensive and intrusive surveillance apparatus. It just means Snowden doesn't have information about that country. He literally doesn't have enough information to make that claim.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
No, "The Emperor's New Clothes" is not "a political story about a system of lies and a whistle-blower". It is a story about yes-men and making people afraid to tell the truth lead to bad decisions by leaders.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
Thanks, for that link, MikeRT.
Like I've heard said: "Everything in moderation, including moderation."
Its time to bust out of this social stupor - Where is the outrage, America? Bipolar is better than comatose.
Of asylum he was supposed to stop with all of the publication of information.
A pledge not to publish more information that could harm the United States was the condition under which Putin said Snowden could receive safe harbor. "Edward assured me that he is not planning to publish any documents that blacken the American government," Anatoly Kucherena, Snowden's Russian lawyer said.
I guess we can all assume that Snowden is just a media whore looking for attention and to be honest, I think a good portion of the information being "leaked" is in fact made up. The last set of slides about the Google Data Center interception information was a sketch. Although we now know some of this information is valid, I'm starting to think that some of it is contrived. Certainly when dealing with espionage issues the notion of counter-espionage and disinformation campaigns come to into play. That way we all get confused as to actually what the US government is doing and how it's doing it. In the end we get confused about they said this and they said that and then we jump straight into the HealthCare.gov website fiasco and how Americans will lose medial insurance policies they've had and will have to get more expensive ones with higher deductibles starting in 2014. That and the government shutdown are great ways to spin this story to the back pages. Conspiracy Theorists in 10 years will look back and probably say that Snowden worked for the NSA all along and was actually spying on the Russians for the US.
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
Yet Another Snowden Story. Somebody call me when Slashdot returns. I'm exceedingly tired of the Snowden Network.
As much as I may hold Edward Snowden in esteem - and that is a lot of esteem, actually - I tend to get all prickly and uncomfortable when the word "truth" is used in such a pontifical way as in the "manifesto". There is no such thing as absolute truth, although Mr. Snowden seems to tacitly imply and quietly assume so. There is your truth, your way of experiencing things - and there is mine. What we call "truth" is the sum vector of all these tiny vectors.
Mr. Snowden had better used a word such as "information" or "openness". I am reminded of 2 Russian words, whose meaning lies in this direction, that became rather famous: glasnost and perestrojka.
WDYT ?
Religous speak to God. Insane are spoken to by God. When all shut up, one can finally hear Shostakovich in peace
Please look up the meaning of the word "manifesto". It's a public declaration of your own goals and intents. Nowhere there is the requirement of at least 1000 words or seven pages or whatever your threshold seems to be.
How long? Well, first we have to wait 'til we get a government by the people, for the people. Before something like that happens, no such chance.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Can we stop using the term "mainstream"? Mainstream implies that they are more in line with what people want. Establishment, now that's a more accurate term.
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
Obama didn't know he was spying on the US, so it might have been news to him. If you believe the media, that is.
Hey mods, why is my post considered any more "flamebait" than those of Snowden supporters?
Because all you did is call him a nutjob. You've added nothing to the conversation, other than an insult.
Place nail here >+
To falsify my point, if Snowden really was what he wants us to think he was (an honest, aw shucks I just want to help whistleblower) then he would have used his precious Wikileaks to get the information out.
Wait... So only if you use Wikileaks as channel you get to be an honest whistleblower, in your opinion?
Obviously there are many other ways. And the Wikileaks way didn't end very well for Chelsea Manning. Finally, I agree that GWB deserves more shit than he's being served of late, but that doesn't magically absolve BHO from maintaining and in may cases drastically extending these programs.
Gosh, thanks. That must be why the other ships call me Meatfucker -- GCU Grey Area (Eccentric)
I knew everything he was saying before he said it.
A lot of people did. But he offered the first undeniable PROOF.
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
We still got food, we still got shelter and we still got daytime TV.
Wait a bit. We're getting there.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Well - the Doolittle Raiders are still waiting for consideration . . . . .
http://www.mydaytondailynews.com/news/news/local-military/doolittle-tokyo-raiders-nominated-for-congressiona/nXgmS/
"Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
How long? I want to know how long until Snowden is given a medal by congress.
Probably 50 years. If he hadn't leaking information about US intelligence operations overseas it might have been 20 years.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
I get why Snowden blew the whistle on the NSA and it's domestic spying programs. That needs to be addressed pronto. But can someone explain to me how revealing our normal espionage program against our allies and against rivals is supposed to convince our allies and rivals to open up about their own spying programs? How on earth is any of this going to convince the Russian and/or the Chinese electorate to demand transparency of their own governments' monitoring systems? Especially when said governments haven't even bothered to hide that they're doing so? Snowden keeps referring to spying and information control as a global problem, but how does he hope to convince the nations who always have engaged in blatant population control to stop doing so?
Here's to hot beer, cold women, and Glaswegian kisses for all.
Wait, so you're only a legitimate whistleblower if you're anonymous? I've heard many people say the opposite.
I think Snowden as a tool is about the picture that I'm getting too.
He's a very foolish young man, and he's totally fucking ruined his life and now is trying to regain some credibility. But the sad fact is, he's also betraying his country. I do not see anything noble in what he's done: I knew everything he was saying before he said it.
And apparently you were fine with it, too. A happy little fascist.
No, he's betraying the corrupt portion of his government that is secretly breaking the spirit and the letter of enumerated rights in the Constitution. When this practice is exercised in other nations, like in China, the US government and her sycophants celebrates speaking truth to power.
Moral truths have a funny way of disappearing when it comes to criticizing your own nation, but that is the realm of pretend patriots who are more attached to the power of the hierarchy then they are to the claimed ideals written into our laws.
As soon as someone starts talking about "betraying the nation/country/flag" it's fair to assume they want to stop talking about whatever the claimed injustice is. That's for two reasons, usually: an irrational attachment to the symbology of their nation (instead of a rational attachment to it's stated values), or because they are beneficiaries of the current status quo and they want to keep things as they are out of puerile self interest. And, as so often is the case, the injustice is so obvious that ad hominem attacks and pro-establishment propaganda that could make a fascist blush become the standard points attempting to cover the empty rhetoric. Bonus points for including a folksy cover of patriarchal finger wagging for "young men" who have "ruined" their lives by daring to claim the government is wrong. What a lovely American ideal that is.
The sad fact is that if the American government does not value due process, freedom of speech, freedom of press, and the right to privacy, it has ceased to become worthy of patriotism. The best parts of American culture and the vast majority of people who still believe in those values are worthy of protection, not the cancerous, bought-and-paid-for, corrupted bureaucracy that is slowly depriving them of those rights. Irrational nationalism is a central pillar of fascism.
You're a douche-bag.
I say that with complete objective certainty.
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
Blame Bush Blame Bush Blame Bush Blah Blah Fucking Neocon Blah.
The expansion of Executive power under GWB was considered radical at the time.
The consolidation of that Executive coup by the Obama Administration is even worse, because what was once considered radical, is now the new normal.
It seems it has become the job of the GOP to advance the authoritarian goal line, and the job of the Democrats to get everyone to accept it.
So yeah, Obama is a terrible odious fuckhead of president. Just like GWB.
What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
I especially liked the part where they told him that he did it wrong, that telling the newspapers was bad.
The correct course of action was to call the people in power [...]
In a democracy, the people in power are supposed to be the general populace, and one informs them via newspapers. So he did follow the correct course of action for informing the people in power.
Either that, or the U.S.A. is a totalitarian regime only painting itself as a democracy.
Take your pick.
Agreed.
I wasn't trying to diss WL as much as I was trying to question globaljustin's assertion that by choosing not to use WL as middle man to the press, Edward Snowden somehow proved himself to be a dishonest whistleblower (by which I took him to mean, have an agenda other than informing the public of these government programs -- I don't think many people are denying the truth of the actual contents of the leaks).
And that the reason why he might have chosen so, but that is beside the point, might be that they surely haven't been able to prevent Manning's terrible fate. Which is a large part of what they should be good at, in my book. All the more so if, as seems to be the case, the events leading up to Manning's capture happened after her contacts with WL. Of course it's possible that they tried to give him sound advice but it was ignored.
Gosh, thanks. That must be why the other ships call me Meatfucker -- GCU Grey Area (Eccentric)
There are still people out there who think regular folks can run for office and not be instantly destroyed/disqualified by the Establishment?
You can't run as part of one of the two parties in the US if the party doesn't want you (e.g. Stephen Colbert), and you don't get serious media attention unless you belong to one of the two parties (e.g. Jill Stein) -- and even if you do belong to one of the two major parties, you don't really get any serious attention if the handful of people who own the media don't like you (e.g. Ron Paul).
99% of Americans can't just "run" for political office even if they had the time and money to do so. The system has evolved prevent that sort of thing.
Modern copyright is theft of culture from everyone and it retards the progress of the useful arts and sciences.
Face the criminal consequences of telling the truth? Go USA!
"As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth's final century, free flow of information is the only safeguard against tyranny. The once-chained people whose leaders at last lose their grip on information flow will soon burst with freedom and vitality, but the free nation gradually constricting its grip on public discourse has begun its rapid slide into despotism. Beware of he [sic] who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master."
- Commissioner Pravin Lal
Don't just stand there, get that other dog!
he didn't offer undeniable proof. Just a bunch of electronic documents of unknown provenance.
If that's the case, you had better let the U.S. Government know that they're falsely prosecuting for violation of the Espionage Act.
The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
The Tea Party is a successful anti-establishment movement, therefore you are wrong.
That illusion only lasts for as long as it takes to look at the list of their biggest backers.