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Canonical Targets Ubuntu Privacy Critic

New submitter bkerensa writes "A member of Canonical's Legal Team recently sent a email to a critic of Ubuntu's privacy settings to insist he stop using the Ubuntu name and logo, even though it falls under 'fair use.' Micah Lee is the CTO of the Freedom of the Press Foundation and maintainer of the HTTPS Everywhere project. When Ubuntu began adding commercial results in its Dash search software, Lee wrote about the privacy concerns and created a site called Fix Ubuntu to show people how to turn it off. Canonical's legal department has now sent him a letter asking him to 'remove [the] Ubuntu word from you[r] domain name and Ubuntu logo from your website.'"

26 of 259 comments (clear)

  1. Dickish move... by jddeluxe · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ....but what would you expect???

    1. Re:Dickish move... by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 4, Insightful
      He probably meant to reply to the grand-parent (founder of this thread), but instead misclicked on the racist reply (which is no longer as high up as it used to be, given the obvious moderation it received...). His post is relevant to the thread ("it is a dickish move" => "lawyers have to be dickish, or they lose their trademark"), just not to the immediately preceding message (that racist bullshit)

      Or are you just annoyed at the tangent/personal experience (Ubuntu T-Shirts)? That's stuff that just happens in a conversation, that's how conversations evolve and stay lively and interesting!

    2. Re:Dickish move... by beltsbear · · Score: 3, Insightful

      This 'little choice' thing is untrue and bullshit yet it keeps being repeated. Ubuntu's lawyers can explicitly offer licensed use of their trademark to anyone they please with or WITHOUT fee. They could easily allow use of the shirts with an email. They could attach conditions as needed and even set it up so they can ask the user of the logo to stop at any time.

  2. If you are still using Ubuntu... by bazmail · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ..then there is something more serious broken in your decision making that command can fix. There are far better distros out there, no matter what you're looking for.

    1. Re:If you are still using Ubuntu... by somersault · · Score: 4, Informative

      Mint.

      It is (or used to be, I haven't looked at it for a while) based on Ubuntu. So, you can use most things that are designed for said most popular Linux distro, while also actually having a pleasant default desktop setup to start from.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    2. Re: If you are still using Ubuntu... by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 3, Interesting

      g+ ?

      fuck that! seriously, its why I will NOT care about 'elementary os'.

      if you have to use a google product to interact with the developers, they totally don't 'get it' and are not worth dealing with.

      now, if they switch to some vendor neutral forum (even a website would be better) than I'll reconsider, but their whole 'support' notion is laughable.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
  3. And the response is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    https://micahflee.com/2013/11/canonical-shouldnt-abuse-trademark-law-to-silence-critics-of-its-privacy-decisions/

    Ubuntu just lost a lot of street cred. Not only is the response appropriate (remove the logo, nothing else), attacking a site dedicated to fixing your product via legal means is not the way to get the Open Source community on your side. When your main product is based on Open Source, that's kind of like shooting yourself in the leg and wondering why the gun is making you bleed out.

    1. Re:And the response is... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But they aren't silencing critics.

      I know that's going to be the popular meme in this discussion, but they aren't. They are asking that their trademarked name be removed from the url and that their trademarked logo be removed from the site. That's entirely reasonable defense of their trademark (*) and in no way prevents the author from still posting the _content_ of the site.

      * Trademark law, unlike copyright, must be defended or you weaken your trademark to the point of losing it. Look at Kleenex and Xerox for examples. If you become aware of infringement of your trademark and allow it to persist, you weaken your ability to defend it in the future. Thus, if they don't defend the trademark infringement that is happening, they risk losing it. Pure and simple.

    2. Re:And the response is... by umafuckit · · Score: 5, Insightful

      But this isn't a site promoting an alternative distro or selling a product. It's site about Ubuntu. So how does its presence weaken the Ubuntu trademark? It's like saying that this post weakens the trademark because it uses the term "Ubuntu". I bet Canonical won't bother going after http://ubuntu-artists.deviantart.com/ or http://podcast.ubuntu-uk.org/

    3. Re:And the response is... by Rob+the+Bold · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But they aren't silencing critics.

      I know that's going to be the popular meme in this discussion, but they aren't. They are asking that their trademarked name be removed from the url and that their trademarked logo be removed from the site. That's entirely reasonable defense of their trademark (*) and in no way prevents the author from still posting the _content_ of the site.

      * Trademark law, unlike copyright, must be defended or you weaken your trademark to the point of losing it. Look at Kleenex and Xerox for examples. If you become aware of infringement of your trademark and allow it to persist, you weaken your ability to defend it in the future. Thus, if they don't defend the trademark infringement that is happening, they risk losing it. Pure and simple.

      I don't think they're taking this action because they're concerned that their brand is being diluted or co-opted or made generic. "FixUbuntu" is specifically about fixing problems Lee perceives Ubuntu to have. He's not using the name Ubuntu to mean Linux in general, or all open source operating systems, or operating systems in general. Canonical is acting like United Airlines in their battle vs. untied.com, that is to say, using trademark protection as an excuse to squelch criticism. And they're getting similar results.

      --
      I am not a crackpot.
    4. Re:And the response is... by rmstar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But they aren't silencing critics.

      Correct.

      Also, the letter they sent him is extremely nice, especially considering the usal tone of this type of document. It really is very different from the standard "nastygram".

      Please, people, keep it real. Also, don't be such fucking ingrates. Without ubuntu, linux would not be in such a good shape.

      Disclosure: I use xubuntu and don't plan to switch.

    5. Re:And the response is... by Baloroth · · Score: 5, Informative

      No, no it isn't. It's nominative use: he isn't using the logo to represent his own product, but to literally refer to the product Canonical is producing. That is fair use. In fact, it strengthens Canonical's trademark: the more people using it to refer to Ubuntu itself, the stronger the trademark is. Same reason Wikipedia can use all the logos of various companies and products on it's wiki pages about them: because it is literally referring to the trademarked product itself, not to some imitation or misrepresentation of the product.

      --
      "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
    6. Re:And the response is... by fatphil · · Score: 4, Funny

      I hereby release the script at the following link, and the output image it created, into the public domain:

      http://fatphil.org/linux/goatsebuntu.html

      In the words of Crowley, with them you may do what thou wilt.

      --
      Also FatPhil on SoylentNews, id 863
  4. they can ASK him to change it by Maow · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They can ask him to change the domain name and remove the logo, and it could be argued that they're just doing basic trademark defence, but they ought to know that he's under no obligation to make the changes. Of course, they ought to have known about and also considered the Streisand effect.

    At least they were polite and not bumptious, censorious douche nozzles about it.

  5. Re:Fair Use? by jedidiah · · Score: 3, Informative

    You're the one that is confused.

    The fair use concept also applies to trademarks. You seem to be laboring under the false "virtual property" notion that much of the current pro-corporate propaganda focuses on these days.

    --
    A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  6. They can always ask? by SplatMan_DK · · Score: 3, Insightful

    TFA does not mention threats being made ... so if all they're really doing is "asking", what is the problem?

    Let them ask, and just answer "no"?

    I see no story here until threats are made.

    - Jesper

    --
    My security clearance is so high I have to kill myself if I remember I have it...
  7. Re:Fair Use? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 4, Informative

    Is there a chance that somebody might mistake his website for Ubuntu, or is it clear that his website is talking about Ubuntu?

    If Canonical is selling out its users' privacy for paid placement of results, then criticism is fair and use of the term "Ubuntu" is unavoidable (unlike actually using Ubuntu, which is completely avoidable). If Canonical is using legal threats to silence its critics who have truthful complaints, then all the more reason to do so.

    People use trademarked terms and logos *all the time* when talking about the respective products. Sometimes they have a "duh" disclaimer when they do. I'm not sure if this disclaimer, currently on the site, is new or not, but it's clear:

    Disclaimer: In case you are either 1) a complete idiot; or 2) a lawyer; or 3) both, please be aware that this site is not affiliated with or approved by Canonical Limited. This site criticizes Canonical for certain privacy-invading features of Ubuntu and teaches users how to fix them. So, obviously, the site is not approved by Canonical. And our use of the trademarked term Ubuntu is plainly descriptiveâ"it helps the public find this site and understand its message.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  8. Re:Fair Use? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Trademark fair use is something different; you have to show that the use is purely descriptive, using only the primary meaning (ie the everyday English language meaning), not the secondary meaning (ie identifying the product).

    Wrong, trademarks can be used to identify the product or service. There is even case law to support this. See New Kids on the Block v. News Am. Pub., Inc., 971 F.2d 302 (9th Cir. 1992) where USA Today's use of the New Kids on the Block trademark was upheld because it was used only so much as to identify them.

    To be sure, this is not the classic fair use case where the defendant has used the plaintiff's mark to describe the defendant's own product. Here, the New Kids trademark is used to refer to the New Kids themselves. We therefore do not purport to alter the test applicable in the paradigmatic fair use case. If the defendant's use of the plaintiff's trademark refers to something other than the plaintiff's product, the traditional fair use inquiry will continue to govern. But, where the defendant uses a trademark to describe the plaintiff's product, rather than its own, we hold that a commercial user is entitled to a nominative fair use defense provided he meets the following three requirements: First, the product or service in question must be one not readily identifiable without use of the trademark; second, only so much of the mark or marks may be used as is reasonably necessary to identify the product or service; [FN7] and third, the user must do nothing that would, in conjunction with the mark, suggest sponsorship or endorsement by the trademark holder.

  9. Re:Not so dickish move... by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 3, Funny

    Aren't they obligated (by law) to protect their trademark, or risk loosing it?

    Of course. You're supposed to screw your trademark real tight. What if it falls off and bashes a customer entering or exiting your shop's premises on the head? You'd be liable for that.

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
  10. Hey genius by nctritech · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Maybe you didn't see the letter from the EFF's lawyer to Canonical yet because you didn't RTFA:

    https://micahflee.com/2013/11/canonical-shouldnt-abuse-trademark-law-to-silence-critics-of-its-privacy-decisions/

    You have NO IDEA what you are talking about, specifically in the legal aspect. This is a prime example of fair use.

  11. Re:Fair Use? by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 4, Insightful
    You can says that Ford sucks without infringing on Ford Motor Company's trademark.

    You cannot just build a better car, and call it a Ford...

    Now, the question is: is this guy selling/providing a better Ubuntu (not allowed...), or is he just criticizing Ubuntu (allowed).

  12. Re:The Sphinx's Riddle by Kardos · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's still open source, you can remove whatever you want. That is the short-term immediate solution - and many have done so -- search how to remove the dash.

    That said, it's a clear sign that Canonical doesn't value the privacy of its users. Their default is moving to "privacy disrespecting" and that means users will need to actively keep up on the latest "how to fix the privacy flaws in Ubuntu", a.k.a, it's broken by default. If Canonical continues down this path, more "features" will be incrementally added, and the removal will get harder as they'll get integrated in ways that cause other things to break when removed, etc.

  13. Their Lawyer hasn't even read their own policy by Minter92 · · Score: 5, Informative

    So now Ubuntu's lawyers don't read their own legal policy http://www.canonical.com/intellectual-property-policy . I looked into it when I wrote a blog post about Canonical going bankrupt eventually.
    Note:
    "You can use the Trademarks in discussion, commentary, criticism or parody, provided that you do not imply endorsement by Canonical."

    So not only is it fair use it also is ok under their own intellectual trademark policy.. Talk about one hand not knowing what the other is doing.

  14. Talking about privacy... Qubes OS by advid.net · · Score: 3, Interesting

    In those "best linux distros" I just discovered Qubes OS which achieves security (and privacy) through strong isolation.

    See what kind of activities can be isolated, in a picture.

    I think they got it right.

    Not very portable: one need to run it on bare metal (along with 4GB minimum), nomads will bring along their laptop, at least (also: secure boot optional).

  15. Re:How do people defend Canonical? by dugancent · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Unity is the Linux equivalent of Metro. It doesn't look like it, but it does suck like it.

    --
    SJWs are the new boogeyman. -Me
  16. They MUST pick and choose. Policy allows criticism by raymorris · · Score: 3, Informative

    > They cant pick and choose.

    In fact they MUST pick and choose. To avoid losing their mark, they need to be proactive about instances that could be considered infringement.
    They can allow certain users and decline others. What they can't do, under the law, is ignore potential infringement - they are supposed to either allow it or object to it.
    One way they do that is through the published policy, which grants people the right to use their trademark in specific ways:

    http://www.canonical.com/intellectual-property-policy

    One thing their policy explicitly grants permission for is:

            You can use the Trademarks in discussion, commentary, criticism or parody, provided that you do not imply endorsement by Canonical.

    It seems to me this use was already authorized under that published statement of permission.