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The NSA Is Looking For a Few Good Geeks

itwbennett writes "Dan Tynan noticed something curious when he was reading a TechCrunch story (about Google's mystery barges, as it happens). There was a banner ad promoting careers at the NSA — and this was no ad-serving network fluke. Tynan visited the TechCrunch site on three different machines, and saw an NSA ad every time. In one version of the ad, a male voice says, 'There are activities that I've worked on that make, you know, front page headlines. And I can say, I know all about that, I had a hand in that. The things that happen here at NSA really have national and world ramifications.'"

43 of 388 comments (clear)

  1. world ramifications... by arthurpaliden · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "The things that happen here at NSA really have national and world ramifications."

    Like making the rest of the world distrust and hate the USA.

    1. Re:world ramifications... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Darn, I missed the ads cause of my adblocker.

    2. Re:world ramifications... by kthreadd · · Score: 4, Funny

      "The things that happen here at NSA really have national and world ramifications."

      Like making the rest of the world distrust and hate the USA.

      They actually do quite a lot of other things as well there, like research into improving cryptography for example.

    3. Re:world ramifications... by SirGarlon · · Score: 4, Interesting

      There's a podcast interviewing former NSA officer Brian Snow that was recorded before the Snowden leaks, and provides some valuable perspective on what the NSA does. I am probably going to get modded and/or flamed to oblivion for saying this, but listening to that podcast made me believe that not everything the NSA does is bad.

      --
      [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
    4. Re:world ramifications... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The Nazi war machine contributed to a several engineering accomplishments in history. Does that make World War 2 any less bad?

      Not being evil (or not 100% evil) is not an excuse for allowing evil people to take advantage of a seemingly unstoppable tool.

    5. Re:world ramifications... by number11 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I am probably going to get modded and/or flamed to oblivion for saying this, but listening to that podcast made me believe that not everything the NSA does is bad.

      Of course not. Very few things in life are all black or all white. The NSA is like the neighbor who poisons any dog that comes onto his property, and you're pretty sure he shoplifts, but if you need a hand hoisting an engine or a ride to the store, he's always willing to help.

      That doesn't mean he shouldn't be locked up, though.

    6. Re:world ramifications... by JohnFen · · Score: 4, Informative

      In the context of the NSA's activities, my answer is "the fourth amendment."

    7. Re:world ramifications... by JohnFen · · Score: 3, Insightful

      For all Its faults, the NSA is more of a flawed character than an evil one

      We are what we do. The NSA is doing evil, regardless of what their intentions are.

    8. Re:world ramifications... by epyT-R · · Score: 4, Informative

      The NSA is supposed to spy.. just not on civilian americans.

    9. Re:world ramifications... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      No, you would not. Once upon the time, I worked for an organization named "Department of the Citizens' Safety". It was in a different time, in a different country, and I had not had a chance to say no - I knew computers, a few Western languages, and had passed (or failed) a bunch of IQ and psychology test. I had barely gotten my first star, and had only a few missions under my belt when the government fell, and I found myself out on my ass, forbidden from holding any government jobs at a time when the only legal jobs were either government, or you had to create them yourself.

      I'm fine now. I am neither dead, nor in organized crime, the way three quarters of my colleagues ended up. I know, now, that I was working for some pretty evil people, and what I was doing was pretty evil. I have pretended being a priest, and wiped my ass with the secret of confession, I have infiltrated literary clubs, and framed the most brilliant of their members for not-so-petty crimes, and I even killed in the line of duty once. It's all in the past, and I'm not even bothering to hide my IP - if you find out who I am, I'll just tell you that I was making shit up - on the internet, no one knows you are a dog.

      That said. Never in my life, not before, not since, had I felt that my life was so simple, that what I was doing was so right, that I was going to bed with such a clear conscience. And of course, never have I felt as powerful and untouchable, but that's a much easier state to achieve.

      When you work for this kind of organization, there is a support structure, a camaraderie, an atmosphere that insures that you are either out before you actually start, or that you are happy and confident with what you are doing, and the only real people are your colleagues. Well, at least it was for me, then. But I doubt the US NSA is testing, vetting, training and supporting their personnel less than my old country did in the late eighties.

    10. Re:world ramifications... by rk · · Score: 5, Informative

      It doesn't say it directly, but one of the big reasons that some of the people responsible for the constitution didn't want the Bill of Rights was for that reason: They didn't want those to be interpreted as the only rights people had. To placate that argument is why the 9th amendment exists. It turns out that those people were exactly right because many make the assumption those are your only rights, even WITH the 9th amendment in place.

      Courts have repeatedly held that there is a de facto right to some level of privacy, regardless of its lack of constitutional enumeration, in part because it's highly implied by several of the amendments, especially the 4th.

    11. Re:world ramifications... by WWJohnBrowningDo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The choice isn't between having the NSA or flushing that $10 billion down the toilet every year. The choice is between having the NSA or increasing the NASA budget by 50%. The choice is between having the NSA or better endowing social security. The choice is between having the NSA or paying down the national debt.

      You're right, not everything they do is bad, but what little good they have done is trivial compared to what $10 billion should have contributed to our society each year.

    12. Re:world ramifications... by sl4shd0rk · · Score: 3, Insightful

      For all Its faults, the NSA is more of a flawed character than an evil one.

      Breaking the law and a patent disregard constitutional rights is a "flaw"? It's not "evil" to make a secret court that makes secret laws that nobody is allowed to see? What the NSA is engaged in is an egregious exercise in government spying and spending "gone wild". Running unchecked and unrestrained. How the hell does anyone get tax dollars approved to build a replica of a Holodeck?

      We are not talking about a simple matter of other countries complaining they saw an SR71 blackbird over their air space, or that the shot down a US spy drone that wandered over their borders. We are talking about a government entity which has broken many laws and side-stepped the rules and regulations in place which were designed to prevent this exact thing from happening.

      The NSA and it's ilk have set up a system with a generic rubber stamp where they can excuse everything they do because "It got approved, see the stamp?". How is it a "flaw" that the public cannot lie under oath, yet the NSA director is somehow excused from that? No, sorry. I don't see anything reasonable about the "job" they did. Reason left a long time ago and now we have a runaway train doing whatever it wants with no regard to the law. I'm sure there's plenty we don't know about yet.

      --
      Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
    13. Re:world ramifications... by Somebody+Is+Using+My · · Score: 5, Informative

      Just an important reminder:

      The US Constitution does not GIVE us rights. It enumerates areas where we allow the government to infringe upon our rights for the good of the nation. The first ten Amendments define some of our inalienable rights but are not a complete listing. Just because the right of privacy is not mentioned is not to imply it does not exist and cannot be claimed.

      While I am sure most people on this site (and probably the poster to whom I am responding as well) are aware of this, I feel it is still an important distinction to be made. Our language dictates our thoughts and actions; let's be clear on this very important matter. We live in an era when there is an increasing belief that our governments have rightful sway over all aspects of our lives and are the source of all corporal power. This is in direct contradiction to the intent of the so-called "Founding Fathers", where the freedom and liberty of the individual were paramount and were only sacrificed - by the individuals - for the advantage of the common weal.

      That is, the direction of power is from the people down to the government, and not the other way around. The people dictate, not the politicians. We willingly give, they do not grudgingly grant. Take and hold onto your rights; they are yours from birth, not a gift bestowed upon you by self-important men.

    14. Re:world ramifications... by fliptout · · Score: 4, Funny

      Way to insta-Godwin this discussion.

      --
      A witty saying proves you are wittier than the next guy.
    15. Re:world ramifications... by interkin3tic · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I feel like you could apply this as a meta argument: not every godwin instance is bad.

    16. Re:world ramifications... by gamanimatron · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Breaking the law and a patent disregard constitutional rights is a "flaw"? It's not "evil" to make a secret court that makes secret laws that nobody is allowed to see?

      I think I'm as concerned about the NSA's overreach as the next guy, but it should be noted here that it wasn't the NSA that established those secret courts and National Security Letters; it was our Congress.

      --
      cogito ergo dubito
    17. Re:world ramifications... by WWJohnBrowningDo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I said "paying down", not "paid off". 1 cent paid towards the debt is paying it down; $10 billion towards it is still paying it down.

      If the NSA budget were zeroed and the money just not spent on anything else, you'd barely notice a change in either the federal budget or the deficit.

      If I used my entire paycheck to pay down my mortgage, I'd barely notice a change. I think I'll just stop paying my mortgage then.

    18. Re:world ramifications... by WWJohnBrowningDo · · Score: 3, Interesting

      not every godwin instance is bad.

      Godwin isn't supposed to be bad in the first place: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."

      It's a simple observation. It only posits that such comparison occurs. It doesn't say whether such comparisons are good or bad at all.

      Many people think Godwin's law is "Ha! You used the N word! You just lost the argument." or "If you bring up the Nazis you ruin the discussion" (what GP did in this case).

    19. Re:world ramifications... by itsthebin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      what sort of geek browses websites allowing banner ads with sound ?

      --
      ...I obey the laws of physics....
  2. America by i+kan+reed · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Enough advertising overcomes any negative consequences of your actions.

    1. Re:America by icebike · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Enough advertising overcomes any negative consequences of your actions.

      Pretty much this.!

      By "owning" it in advertising and public speeches and press releases, they hope to pull a "Toyota" maneuver.

      (When Toyota was facing run-away vehicles and brake problems with spectacular crashes, they began an ad campaign touting their safety. They are still at it today with a drumbeat of ads telling how safe their cars are and totally ignoring the massive recalls they were forced into. I suspect Toyota learned the technique from Iomega which did the same thing in the face of their Famous Click of Death drive series).

      I predicted this some months ago. I suspect going forward they will just start saying in effect: "Yeah, we read your mail. Get over it." Now that its out in the open, they will become bolder and brasher, and no mere legal barriers will stand in their way, (not that they ever did). There are just enough useful idiots out there that believe this is a "good thing" that the NSA will probably get away with this tactic.

      Technical solutions are going to have to be devised, better encryption, multi-path routing, etc. And instead of welcoming their contributions, crypto developers are going to have to understand that they can't be trusted.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
  3. i wonder... by ganjadude · · Score: 5, Funny

    why the NSA would need to seek out new team members, you would think they already know who the brightest and best are from the data collected!

    --
    have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
  4. Good geeks? by jez9999 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    At this point, no "good" geek would work for the NSA.

    1. Re:Good geeks? by Fwipp · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I like this post, because I can't tell if it means
      "No honorable person would work for the NSA"
      or
      "Anyone applying to the NSA is out to betray them."

    2. Re:Good geeks? by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful

      At this point, no "good" geek would work for the NSA.

      Define 'good' and define 'geek'.

      If you think there aren't people who work in the tech field who will say "I'm totally in favor of this, because it protects us from the terrorists", you're likely sadly mistaken.

      Geeks aren't some uniform group of people who all believe the same things. Reading Slashdot should show you that quite readily in about 2 minutes.

      Many of us might say "yeah, not on your life", but I bet almost as many might say "sure, I'm in, sounds fun".

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    3. Re:Good geeks? by JohnFen · · Score: 3, Informative

      This is exactly right, and those kinds of geeks are not "good" geeks. They are a kind of evil themselves.

      Your rocket scientist reference is both correct and a good example of that: Oppenheimer famously replied to someone asking if he was bothered by the fact that his work was being used to kill lots of innocent people and his response was that his only worry was getting them to go up. It was someone else's job to worry about where they come down.

      That's pure evil, right there.

    4. Re:Good geeks? by Galatamon · · Score: 4, Informative

      Pretty sure you're thinking of Von Braun.

    5. Re:Good geeks? by metlin · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You're an idiot.

      That was von Braun, for one. For another, Oppenheimer was aghast at the destruction caused by the atomic bomb (he quoted the Bhagvad Gita, "I am become Death -- the destroyer of worlds." after the Trinity Test) and actively campaigned for non-proliferation.

      If anything, his sympathies towards the other sides caused him to be a martyr to McCarthyism. Hell, even von Braun commented that, "In England, Oppenheimer would have been knighted."

      Oppenheimer is the poster child for how scientists have little control over the political consequences and use of their discoveries, and how the political institutions would happily discard them once they're wrung dry.

  5. The logical deduction is that the ads are fake by cruff · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Given that the NSA is recording everything, and probably has broken all your encryption keys, you would think the NSA would already know who to target for employment. Thus the obvious conclusion is that these ads are fakes or honeypots.

  6. Not worth my time. by Anon-Admin · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I looked into the NSA and the CIA. neither pay anywhere near what the private sector pays. Both want to pump you up on "Doing your national duty", "Serving your country", and/or "Protecting your fellow Americans"

    If they want IT talent, they need to pony up the cash.

  7. If I didn't have any ethics... by Frobnicator · · Score: 3, Interesting
    Like most of us on /., we have a group of brilliant individuals. Occasionally we come up with some excellent but immoral or illegal ideas that would very easily separate people from their money. These are different from our typical ideas that manage to separate people from their money, as we are all paid well for the work we do.

    Sometimes we will flesh these immoral or illegal business plans out a little bit, realize just what is involved in the process, and then sigh, "I could be rich if I didn't have any ethics."

    Many people make the news every day. Most often these include major scams and crimes or immoral behavior.

    Yes, there is work to be had and money to be found in those activities, and you can make global news from them. If you don't have any ethics.

    --
    //TODO: Think of witty sig statement
  8. Hello ... by PPH · · Score: 4, Funny

    ... my name is Ted Stowden. I'd like some information on a career in your fine organization. No need to send me anything. I know which server its on.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  9. Any SysAdmin positions? by komodo685 · · Score: 5, Funny

    I know this former SysAdmin in Russia who had to resort to tech support FFS. Already has clearance. He'd be just what you deserve.

  10. Old joke... by jayveekay · · Score: 5, Funny

    If you want to apply for a job at the NSA, just pick up the phone. Any phone.

  11. Give me a break. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    They actually do quite a lot of other things as well there, like research into improving cryptography for example.

    Seriously? Improving it as in finding holes that they can exploit and tell no one else about? Or spending millions on research into how to create holes they can hope to get included as encryption standards?

    From the link above:

    The N.S.A.'s Sigint Enabling Project is a $250 million-a-year program that works with Internet companies to weaken privacy by inserting back doors into encryption products. This excerpt from a 2013 budget proposal outlines some methods the agency uses to undermine encryption used by the public.

    1. Re:Give me a break. by dgatwood · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Boots on the ground? It always worked before we had high tech. I mean, before there were phones, they had to plant people inside an organization to learn its secrets unless they just happened to get lucky enough to catch a courier. The fact that communication channels are back to being moderately secure is uninteresting. It's really just a correction of a weakness that high tech introduced in the first place.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    2. Re:Give me a break. by lgw · · Score: 5, Insightful

      President Carter make a rule that the CIA can't employ unsavory characters as local operatives (e.g., we can't have an actual terrorist as a mole in a terrorist organization). Our human intelligence took a nosedive and never really recovered. Maybe it's time to fix that (if we haven't already), and just live without the NSA for a while.

      I've said it before but: defund the NSA, fire everyone, bulldoze the buildings, and let it serve as an example to other agencies about overreach. Sure, loss of SIGINT will be a problem, but the NSA has become a bigger problem. End it, and start over once you're sure it's really gone.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
  12. Re:Hello, future leakers! by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That's a very myopic view of the situation.

    People with expertise in data systems have a wide range of opinions and come from a variety of backgrounds. There is no monolithic community that is implied with possession of this knowledge.

    Even if you are in the subset that supports Snowden you don't have to have the opinion that what the NSA does is fundamentally wrong. It may be that all it really needs is more enlightened political leadership and restructured laws. After all even the most ideal free societies have opponents and will have a need to protect themselves to ensure their continuation.

  13. Re:What's the news here? by Animats · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Right. They've been open about it for years. NSA has a long history in computing.

    At one time, going to NSA HQ was very mysterious, and travel expenses were paid with a check from a furniture company. But they gave up on that years ago. Now, like the CIA, they have signs outside.

    Until the USSR went down, all NSA really cared about was what the USSR was doing. Anything else had lower priority. After the USSR went down, there were lots of retirements and layoffs. After 9/11, everything changed. Suddenly the threat was from little groups, not a superpower. Huge internal realignment. Much more pressure for timely info (the USSR was a slow-moving opponent) and for data sharing with law enforcement. That's when NSA became more intrusive.

  14. I had a hand in that! by MobyDisk · · Score: 3, Interesting

    'There are activities that I've worked on that make, you know, front page headlines. And I can say, I know all about that, I had a hand in that.

    That's silly/ There are not many headlines in the last few years that the NSA is proud of. And if you work at the NSA and had a hand in something that made front page headlines, you probably aren't allowed to talk about it anyway.

    My friends who work at the NSA hate when the NSA comes up as a topic, because it is never good news. They just have to hide their heads and walk out of the room. Sometimes that is because they are not allowed to talk about it. Other times it is because they are sick of hearing the flak.

  15. Obvious Failure of "Profiling" by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 3, Insightful

    We all know that so called ad targeting works by building up profiles on people intended to categorize their interests -- very much like the NSA's own automated profiling and analysis systems. But the profiling system can't tell the difference between a favorable interest and a disgusted interest (much like they can't tell if you've already bought those shoes you were searching for two weeks ago and so keep showing you ads for shoes).

    That they've decided to show the guy recruiting ads because he's been reading articles about how the NSA is a bunch of nationalistic spying assholes is the cherry on top, a perfect demonstration how pervasive surveillance can't actually understand the intent of people and thus will have an overwhelming percentage of false positives.

    If real people at the FBI can't even tell the different between someone reporting a threat against themselves and a threat against the FBI profiling systems can only automate keystone cop level of surveillance effectiveness.

    --
    When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  16. Re:Has the NSA done anything? by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    One of the theories out there is that the downsizing of US SIGINT capability during the 1990's was the reason al-Qa'ida was successful in carrying out 9/11. This has some credibility because even though the FBI was tracking some of the perpetrators of 9/11, the NSA had no information on their intent.

    Then there is the fact that SIGINT played a large role in finding the location of Osama Bin Laden in Pakistan.

    No, the idea the NSA is not needed is hopelessly naive. What IS needed is getting rid of the Patriot Act and instituting real oversight.