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US Government Embraces Bitcoin in Hearing on Virtual Currency

Daniel_Stuckey writes "Congress held its first-ever hearing on virtual currencies this afternoon, and it may have been the best PR boost bitcoin's had yet. The tone at the hearing held before the Senate Homeland Security and Government Affairs Committee was overwhelmingly positive as the panel weighed the risks of the technology that grew out of the criminal underbelly of the web, with the potential economic value of the now-booming futurist money. The prevailing sentiment over the two-hour deep dive into the pros and cons of the digital coins boils down to this: We need to uphold America's position as center of technical innovation by welcoming the new currency—but that that can't be done without government safeguards and regulations." SonicSpike wrote in with a link to another report in Bloomberg. The Federal Reserve has no plans to regulate Bitcoin (lacking regulatory authority), but the SEC chair wrote "Regardless of whether an underlying virtual currency is itself a security, interests issued by entities owning virtual currencies or providing returns based on assets such as virtual currencies likely would be securities and therefore subject to our regulation."

17 of 233 comments (clear)

  1. Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...but that that can't be done without government safeguards and regulations

    What they really mean: Congress is very excited at having found something new to tax.

    1. Re:Translation by mysidia · · Score: 5, Informative

      Bitcoins have always fallen under the current tax laws. There haven't been any new tax laws designed for e-currency like BTC.

      They are subject to government regulation when used as a medium of trade.

      However; at other times, there is a great deal of uncertainty -- for instance, the IRS has yet to issue any guidance, as to : whether bitcoins are classified as non-tangible personal property under the tax code, or as a foreign currency/ cash-equivalent/financial instrument.

      The difference could be very important to miners and people holding bitcoins as well: if the former, then mining bitcoins may be a non-taxable event, and tax liability might not be incurred, until bitcoins are exchanged, and a capital gain is realized.

      On the other hand --- if classified as a currency/cash-equivalent/financial instrument, there could be immediate taxes due whenever bitcoins are mined, and also: for tax purposes, requiring anyone holding them, to mark their bitcoins to market at the end of every year, and report the gain or loss based on the change of fair market value of their bitcoins in USD.

  2. Two things glossed over in the summary by Derec01 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    From watching a bit of the C-SPAN coverage, I found it interesting to note that several of the witnesses from law enforcement effectively stated that:

    1.) Current regulations had not hampered their ability to pursue criminals
    2.) They saw more danger from centralized currency systems based in fringe countries than from "decentralized currencies such as Bitcoin"

  3. That explains the spike by gman003 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So that's why BTC jumped up to $900 today, after opening around $500. I bet some speculators made a ton of cash that way.

    1. Re:That explains the spike by jd · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Have to say you make excellent points. It's why I avoided even looking at bitcoin for the longest time. (Early on, the value was less than the cost of the electricity and as the computations were only going to get harder, the likelihood of benefits was nil. It didn't help that something for nothing often ends badly for the people who think they're paying nothing.)

      Really, for a good virtual currency, you need it pre-generated and beyond the ability of computers in the next 30-40 years to potentially break. 150-200 years would be ideal. That isn't bitcoin. Don't get me wrong, bitcoin looks less vulnerable to counterfeiting than regular currencies, but I remain unconvinced that it will prove strong over the lifetime of currencies. When currency lifetimes are measured in centuries, knowing something was strong last week isn't really good enough.

      (I can't say the US decision thrills me, knowing that the same people applauding bitcoin have interfered with crypto development.)

      What we have right now is hyperinflation due to rampant speculation. A few will get rich quick, a lot will get poor even quicker when the bubble bursts. We've seen, what, 800%, 900% inflation this year? Competing with Zimbabwe? This isn't remotely sustainable, especially as everyone and their pet dog can run a bitcoin miner and cash out via one of the ATMs or an exchange service.

      We've also now seen cases of virtual bank robberies, with owners of online wallet services cutting and running. Yes, that happens with physical banks too, but all that tells me is that a lot of old problems remain, a lot of new problems are added, and still no sign of actual benefits.

      I want a virtual currency that works. Mondo experimented with electronic cash in the late 80s, early 90s, where you had smart cards you could actually use in real stores to make payments without going via any bank. It was an interesting system, it used a real currency rather than a virtual one but that's immaterial as it could have used anything. The fact is, they had a working system for utilizing electronic money without involving central systems. It should be very easy to do better today and have more places adopt it.

      Combine that with a currency that isn't scattered at random on some mathematical version of a sidewalk (pavement in the UK), and you'll have something that really does impress for all the right reasons.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
  4. Re:Oh look! by aaronb1138 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    A few really simple reasons the government would be in favor of Bitcoin:
    1) Gain control early.
    2) Every transaction leaves a trace. The idea that Bitcoin is anonymous is a bit of bullshit. Yes, right now the exchanges keep one hand from knowing the other. This is easily changed.
    3) In aggregate, it's impossible to trace for a non-government entity. This means slush fund spending woohoo time.
    4) Politicians have figured out that the extreme anti-social end of the internet from which Bitcoin has gained its popularity are a bunch of socially inept jack offs. They know these people have poor impulse control and too much intellect, but are easily swayed by marginal amounts of lip service.

  5. Huh by umdesch4 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I guess I missed the happy, joyous part then. I watched the first hour and 20-some-odd minutes of this hearing, and if I had taken a drink every time they said "child pornography", I would be in the hospital now.

  6. Kiss of death. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Ha. Now the libertarians are going to abandon it wholesale.
    No fun when the big bad gubmint likes your freedomcoins.

    1. Re:Kiss of death. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "Ha. Now the libertarians are going to abandon it wholesale.
      No fun when the big bad gubmint likes your freedomcoins."

      Nonsense. It has nothing to do with what the government likes. It has everything to do with whether, and how, government "regulates" it.

      Just watch. Somebody in government will attempt to regulate it in a way that is fundamentally at odds with the mathematics of how Bitcoin works. It's almost inevitable.

      Like, just for example: trying to legislate a fixed exchange rate for dollars. (Just an example. I doubt they'd be stupid enough to do that exact thing. But you never know.)

  7. Great. by scottbomb · · Score: 4, Funny

    Because everything else our glorious government tries to control turns to gold.

  8. Re:Oh look! by firex726 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Downside though is the extreme volatility of them.

    No one is going to convert their millions in a slush fund into bitcoins if it'll mean that the value will spike and dip on daily basis. Financial security means confidence in a currencies value.

  9. Now for some legit exchanges by Animats · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The problem with Bitcoin now is that it's being used mostly for speculation, not for trade. You can't price anything in Bitcoins when the price changes 30% in one day. If you accept Bitcoins for anything that doesn't have a huge markup, you can get clobbered by the price fluctuation before you get the payment converted.

    Worse, the "exchanges" are very, very flaky. Over half of the Bitcoin exchanges have gone bust. Mt. Gox hasn't paid out US dollars since August, large euro payments seem to be randomly delayed, and some days customers can't get Bitcoins out. Coinbase, which is a dealer, not an exchange (you're buying and selling to and from them) will sometimes drop out of the market because they can't buy or sell Bitcoins (and actually get the funds delivered) on some other exchange. Not one Bitcoin exchange is publicly audited or insured, yet they hold customer funds.

    Tradehill was going to be the "legitimate Bitcoin exchange". They went bust. Another exchange in China just disappeared last week, with the customer money. A solid exchange, registered as a broker/dealer in some reasonably legit country, would be a big step forward.

  10. Anyone in politics should absoutely love this! by Kaz+Kylheku · · Score: 4, Informative

    Bribes, prostitutes, extravagance ... all require anonymous, untraceable forms of money.

    If politicians didn't require it, governments would have banned cash long ago.

  11. Decentralized exchanges will replace centralized by elucido · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And that will eventually replace everything else.

  12. Re:When is the government actually right? Ever? by cykros · · Score: 5, Informative

    The exchanges I know of thus far provide no shorts yet, but Kraken has the code laid for it (they're brand new and are waiting for volume to increase before they add that along with some other advanced trade options). And yes, this would add market stability, which is part of the reason they're adding it.

    Unfortunately, they're only available in a few states as of yet. The regulations in the US that apply to them unfortunately are on a state by state basis, and have significantly slowed the rollout of the exchange (unlike some of the prior exchanges that's gone up, they're A) operating in the US and B) being now scrutinized enough to really need to be fully compliant).

  13. Re:When is the government actually right? Ever? by Solandri · · Score: 5, Informative

    Like many people, you fail see that Bitcoin does have an intrinsic value: it is a useful medium of exchange. There is a predictable inflationary curve,

    There is a predictable deflationary curve if you want to think of it as a currency - it is consistently going up in value. That makes it a terrible medium of exchange, because it encourages people to shove it under the mattress and wait for its value to go up instead of using it to get real productive work done. A good medium of exchange encourages you to go out and do something useful with it, thus encouraging more economic activity, and increasing the productivity of the people using it. As long as bitcoins' value is going up, it is a speculative investment, not a medium of exchange.

    The trick to getting a currency to work, and the reason pretty much every developed country has switched to a fiat currency, is to keep the currency's value relatively steady despite the growth of your country's economy. If your currency's value goes up over the long term, it encourages hoarding and discourages productive economic activity. With a fiat currency it is easy to maintain this balance - print more money as your economy grows. With a currency based on a fixed resource (whether it be gold or bitcoins), this only happens if by sheer luck the rate of mining new gold/bitcoins matches the rate the economy is growing. If the mining rate does not keep up with economic growth, you get deflation and people will try to hoard the currency as a method of getting rich, instead of spending it or investing it to do actual productive work.

  14. Re:When is the government actually right? Ever? by ibwolf · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You are forgetting another deflationary pressure on bitcoin; increased adoption. As more people want to use bitcoins the demand for them goes up. Demand goes up, so does the price of bitcoins and thus the commodities prices expressed in bitcoins go down. Deflation.

    Given how little bitcoins are actually used today this is a very significant hurdle to more widespread use.