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Many UAVs Vulnerable To Directed-Energy Weapons

mask.of.sanity writes "A New Zealand researcher has detailed ways that UAVs can be crashed using cheap tools like Herf guns and GPS jammers, and could even be downed by flying drones with more powerful radio. The attacks (podcast) interfere with the navigation systems used by flying drones and are possible because security was not designed into the architecture of some machines."

27 of 153 comments (clear)

  1. Illegal by Neil+Boekend · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yes, of course there are illegal tools that can down them.
    Next up: "drones vulnerable to anti-air missiles"

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    Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
    1. Re:Illegal by Sockatume · · Score: 2, Funny

      You were the kind of kid who, upon reading about dinosaurs for the first time, said "yeah, well I already knew that there was such a thing as animals", right?

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      No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
    2. Re:Illegal by Nerdfest · · Score: 2

      The amazing part here is there doesn't seem to be much basic 'offline' intelligence built into them so that if control signals are scrambled or lost it can fly straight and level until conditions improve.

    3. Re:Illegal by Neil+Boekend · · Score: 4, Informative

      Nope. That an UAV is vulnerable to extreme high power microwaves just doesn't surprise me.
      There is a lot that would be destroyed with a blast from such a HERF gun. Wifi interfaces and bluetooth devices especially like it. That is why it is usually illegal (and stupid) to use a microwave oven with a damaged containment.

      --
      Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
    4. Re:Illegal by gtall · · Score: 4, Informative

      I don't know about all UAVs but the U.S. military ones are programmed to fly home if they get confused. Dunno how they find home if they lose GPS but at least they thought about the issue.

    5. Re:Illegal by erroneus · · Score: 2

      The assumption, which I hold to be quite valid, is that as with all other government weapons systems, the fear is that they are to be used on the people of the U.S. As they continue to pass laws which enable them to do so, the concern deepens. And I'm somewhat left confused about any law that has ever been written and simply not implemented. Laws start with a desire or need to address a concern. Lately, it has been about enabling the government to do more than they have been allowed to do in the past.

      In short, they have been passing laws which enable the military to operate within the US and to act against the people of the US. Legislators wouldn't go through the trouble of writing and passing such legislation if they didn't plan to use it.

    6. Re:Illegal by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      Dunno how they find home if they lose GPS

      I have only thought about this for five seconds, but here is my solution: Use a $5 magnetic compass to maintain a constant heading until you are far enough from the jammer to pick up the GPS signal again. Then use GPS to fly home.

    7. Re:Illegal by yurtinus · · Score: 2

      They don't have sensors to identify landmarks - unless they're being piloted remotely by camera that's no use. Even so, if GPS is denied, they can use inertial navigation and compass heading to get pretty darn close to their failsafe waypoints.

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      +1 Disagree
    8. Re:Illegal by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 2

      So the distributor wouldn't stop working?

      You may be able to cook the coil, but probably not the distributor. You would likely need enough energy to melt the sheet metal in the body of the car to fry an old distributor. It might be possible to fuse the points, but that would be enough energy to bbq the passanger.

    9. Re:Illegal by budgenator · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The impresssssion I got was the article was talking mostly about hobby grade quadracopters, with perhaps a webcam controlled by a 2.4 GHz hobbiest remote controller, not military grade UAVs; a few may have been commercial grade units marketed for industrial or law enforcement use.

      Firing up a transmitter powerfull enough to jam a military grade drone flying over a battlefield is the shurest way I know of to find out if Allah realy has 72 virgins waiting for you in the promised land.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    10. Re:Illegal by ImprovOmega · · Score: 3, Informative

      I don't know about all UAVs but the U.S. military ones are programmed to fly home if they get confused. Dunno how they find home if they lose GPS but at least they thought about the issue.

      Inertial Navigation Systems. Not as accurate as GPS, but good enough to at least not land in enemy territory. And hypothetically by the time you got within a few miles of the base, the GPS would be back online.

    11. Re:Illegal by Rich0 · · Score: 2

      This is a fairly solved problem, actually. Serious navigation systems continuously estimate their performance, and have redundant sensors/etc. When an airliner is approaching an airport via clouds the pilot will not attempt the approach if the navigation system reports that its accuracy isn't sufficient to guarantee the avoidance of obstacles (the required performance gets tighter as you get closer to the ground, up to the max of Cat III ILS which basically can land a plane with no visibility at all which means being accurate within a meter or two).

      If the INS says that it should be good within 200m, and the GPS signal disagrees by 3km, chances are the GPS is being messed with. Also, I'm not sure how vulnerable GPS is to replay attacks, but military units would be able to authenticate the signal using the encrypted channel which civilian receivers cannot use.

      GPS also isn't the only navigation system out there - maybe deep in enemy territory it is, but as it gets closer to home it would probably have access to other beacons.

  2. anti-drone warfare by AndroSyn · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It was only a matter of time before anti-drone warfare came about. This happens with every new piece of weaponry, the quest for the anti-weapon. They don't call it an arms race for no reason.

  3. Re:Directed energy weapons by Sockatume · · Score: 4, Informative

    The catch here is that these "directed energy weapons" were cheap trivialities bought off eBay and not military EW apparatus or gigantic celestial furnaces.

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    No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
  4. Re:Kinda makes me wonder... by Sockatume · · Score: 2

    TFA refers to civilian UAVs and their derivatives in law enforcement and the like, not military drones.

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    No kidding!!! What do you say at this point?
  5. Re:UAV's vulnerable to directed-energy weapons? by slim · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Beautifully put, and correct.

    However:

    New Zealand security researcher Stuart MacIntosh told delegates at the Kiwicon 7 conference in Wellington that some vulnerable drone technology designed in the hobby space had trickled down into use by police and commercial operators.

    Which makes it notable. Before you use a consumer-oriented item for more serious use, you need to evaluate its fitness for purpose.

    Of course, you might go ahead and use it anyway - that's what risk assessment is all about.

  6. Re:When by SailorSpork · · Score: 2

    When did a directed energy weapon become a "cheap tool"?

    Sorry, I initially read NERF guns... anyone can make a mistake. :)

  7. Re:When by michaelmalak · · Score: 2

    When did a GPS jammer become a directed energy weapon?

  8. Also vunerable to bullets by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 5, Funny

    You could probably take a low-flying one down with a trebuchet.

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    systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    1. Re:Also vunerable to bullets by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 4, Informative

      The Soviet attempt to train anti-tank dogs was...less than successful. The Russians trained their dogs with their own diesel-fueled tanks, which smelled different from German gasoline-fueled tanks. In the field, they discovered that this meant they had trained the dogs to blow up Soviet tanks but not German ones.

  9. Re:UAV's vulnerable to directed-energy weapons? by Shoten · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Beautifully put, and correct.

    However:

    New Zealand security researcher Stuart MacIntosh told delegates at the Kiwicon 7 conference in Wellington that some vulnerable drone technology designed in the hobby space had trickled down into use by police and commercial operators.

    Which makes it notable. Before you use a consumer-oriented item for more serious use, you need to evaluate its fitness for purpose.

    Of course, you might go ahead and use it anyway - that's what risk assessment is all about.

    Also true...but honestly, I can't recall the last time cops had to worry about crooks with HERF guns. It would be a lot easier, safer and cheaper for the bad guys to simply *shoot* at the drones in these situations. We're not talking about flights of Predators or Reapers flying thousands of feet up, backed by a Gorgon's Eye implementation. We're talking about what's basically a glorified RC copter flying at hundreds of feet.

    I will now coin a new acronym..."KEDW," or "Kinetic Energy Directed Weapon," also known as a "gun," and go speak to a conference about how it is a much worse threat than this...because not only can it shoot down police drones, it can hurt people too!

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  10. Re:UAV's vulnerable to directed-energy weapons? by Baloroth · · Score: 2

    I think anyone who has ever been bird hunting (or clay pigeon shooting) knows exactly how hard it is to hit small moving targets hundreds of feet in the air.

    --
    "None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
  11. Re:UAV's vulnerable to directed-energy weapons? by NatasRevol · · Score: 2

    More like dozens of feet.

    Not hundreds.

    Bird & clay pigeon shooting is typically small gauge shotguns, whose range is dozens of feet. Not hundreds.

    --
    There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
  12. Re:UAV's vulnerable to directed-energy weapons? by bobbied · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Well, if you can get a drone within 50 yards of me, I could possibly hit it with the shotgun. Outside of that range, things get a whole lot more difficult and it's going to be impossible outside of about 100 yards. Trying to hit a drone using a rifle is about the best you can hope for beyond 100 yards, and those shots would be one in a million.

    So, if the drone is flying higher than about 150 feet it is unlikely to be in danger from any kinetic weapon carried by the perp.

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    "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  13. Re:UAV's vulnerable to directed-energy weapons? by denzacar · · Score: 2

    What about you and a couple of your friends armed with AKs?

    If I recall correctly that kind of shooting is effective up to 600 meters (concentrated firing).

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    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  14. Re:From the summary: "CHEAP tools" by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 2

    million-dollar sol-air missiles (which they do not have).

    Who's launching missiles from the sun? And at such a low cost?

  15. So? by denzacar · · Score: 2

    Bullets are also tiny - but there are many of them.
    And as long as the coordinates of some of them overlap with those "57 cm across"...

    5 guys with AKs can create a bullet ridden area that will quickly cover those 57 cm and more.
    Don't think of it as sharpshooting - think flak.

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens