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Singapore & South Korea Help NSA Tap Undersea Cables
An anonymous reader writes "Singapore and South Korea are playing key roles helping the United States and Australia tap undersea telecommunications links across Asia, according to top secret documents leaked by Edward Snowden. Indonesia and Malaysia have been key targets for Australian and Singaporean intelligence collaboration since much of Indonesia's telecommunications and Internet traffic is routed through Singapore. The NSA has a stranglehold on trans-Pacific communications channels with interception facilities on the West coast of the United States and at Hawaii and Guam, tapping all cable traffic across the Pacific Ocean as well as links between Australia and Japan. Japan had refused to take part."
So I guess everybody is helping the US out with spying and such, but what is their motivation?
1) They think it's the right thing to do?
2) There is some (in)direct monetary gain?
3) They also get spy data?
4) They think the US is awesome?
5) All of the above?
6) Other?
I feel like i just wrote a poll, but I'm geniunly interested for some insight.
Maybe "Dropping Anchor" is code for wire tapping without permission. The old "a boat dropped anchor on the cable" so the internet is a trickle in Australia for 3 days trick.
"I'm just going to go drop an anchor on this call"
"We were dropped anchor off the coast of China last week"
As more and more of the leaks have been revealed, more and more countries are being linked to the Global NSA Franchise.
Those countries don't do stuffs for nothing - and the fact that so many countries have helped doing all the dirty works for NSA means that, in return, USA did something else for them.
But what can the government of the United States do to return the favor ?
Money ?
Nope. USA is bankrupt.
Fame ?
Nope. Everybody knows how popular it would be to be included in the "Uncle Sam Lapdog" list.
Power ? Longevity ?
Nope and Nope.
But there is one thing that Uncle Sam can do for them - Uncle Sam let them to live for another day.
One thing that everybody has witnessed and knew is this --- when and if Uncle Sam wants you to die, you will.
Look at what happened to Saddam Hussein.
Look at what happened to Qaddafi.
Even when Uncle Sam does not kill you, you will still end up in a very terrible place --- go ask Manuel Noriega how he felt, after being Uncle Sam's lapdog for ages, Uncle Sam turned against him.
There are, of course, _some_ lucky souls who managed to stay alive, no matter how many times Uncle Sam wants to do them in.
Cuba's Fidel Castro, for example.
But Fidel is an exception, rather than the rule.
I will not be surprised with the threats leveled by Uncle Sam against Lee Kuan Yew of Singapore or to whoever was in charge of the South Korean government - and again, both of those countries are themselves in _ VERY PRECARIOUS _ situation.
South Korea has to face with the fruitcakes from the North.
Singapore ? It's but " A tiny red island in the vast green sea ", as had uttered by one of Indonesia's former leader.
USA does not even need to threaten them much to get them to carry out all the dirty deeds --- all USA needed to do is to tell them that, if you don't do this for me, when you're in trouble, I won't help you.
That is all to get both South Korea and Singapore to get going.
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
Anybody know what the current reputation of The Netherlands is?
Awful. The prime minister even refuses to say anything bad about the unlawful interceptions, because "it could harm our interests as well". Clearly "our interests" do not include the interests of the citizens. And our domestic affairs minister wants to give the police unwarranted tapping powers with the possibility to install spyware, only controlled by their own organisation.
Disclaimer: I live there.
Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
Given that we're asking this question on a US forum we can take it as granted that 60% of the readers couldn't find either country on a map and that 90% have zero knowledge of their political and historical position. So about 90% will be ill-equipped to understand where Singapore's and South-Korea's self-interests might lie. But now that the question is asked, we can remedy that.
South Korea, needs the US to help defend themselves against neighbours who would be prepared to wage a full-scale war against them (North Korea). The US are pretty much the only ally of note and value they have, and they know it.
Singapore is surrounded by neighbours that completely dwarf them (Malaysia, Indonesia) only 50 years ago encompassed them (Malaysia), have an Islamic majority (Malaysia) or a virulent Islamic minority (Indonesia) and are debating whether to become a fully Islamic state (Malaysia).
Both countries have brought about an economic boom and depend on security (i.e. the absence of shooting wars), good trade relations with the West, open sea lanes and suchlike.
In both cases a critical part of their national security is having accurate information on what their neighbours are really up to. And in both cases the only serious partner is the US. As a stabilizing factor, a main ally, or a party with whom to trade information that they themselves cannot collect (like e.g. satellite coverage, ocean reconnaissance, comprehensive traffic monitoring etc. etc.).
For countries like that, helping the US eavesdrop on message traffic makes an uncommon lot of sense and is a small price to pay.
Whilst Snowden's relevations may have a beneficial effect on US *domestic* intelligence oversight, having such data-collection arrangements splattered on the front page are detrimental to the collective national security of the US, Singapore, and Korea.
Turn it any way you want, knowing what people are up to gives you a head start in dealing with them, and the US have been a stabilizing factor in Asia for 60 years or so. Eroding this data-collection capability is the price we pay for openness. I'm not certain if the price is too steep, all I'm saying is that it's a very real price we pay. Even if not everybody realises it or wants to hear about it.
that makes me ponder, were these cuts accidental or red herrings?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/apr/06/georgian-woman-cuts-web-access
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=4267160
http://tribune.com.pk/story/527148/undersea-internet-cable-cut-effects-50-of-pakistans-traffic/
http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/mar/28/damaged-undersea-cable-internet-disruption
i'm aware you can tap fiber without disrupting it but it's underwater which seems difficult to start with and it doesn't mean all the cuts were by the NSA. (since apparently everyone is spy happy)
everything is suspicious now :((((
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
Ah the Poe's Law Troll, one of my favorites. However, I'll oblige.
You're not important enough for anyone to care about your private communications.
Until you are. Then you're fucked, even if it's a bullshit reason, like making anti-NSA political statements on the Internet, while also being an OS developer and having knowledge of unpatched OS exploit vectors, and developing your own cryptographic ciphers. Then you may find your router firmware mysteriously bricked by an exploit gone wrong -- You see, upon suspicion of odd things going on in my network (like 350 MB uploads in the middle of the night when no one was using the net to IP addresses owned by the US government) I cleansed my systems and replaced my router and its firmware, but caused it to still be fingerprinted as stock. That's called a canary, and my canary is dead. When I look at things from an intelligence perspective, It seems like I might be interesting to them, even though I'm a pacifist not a terrorist.
I'm not sure who wants into my systems or for what purpose. However, condoning such actions against citizens is abhorrent. If they showed up at my door step with a warrant I'd shake their hands and give 'em few cases of my homebrewed beer to take home and help them to everything they want to know -- That's what they should be doing. Now, I have to assume it's malicious attackers or enemy state actors. It's really not helpful to be at war with your allies... I don't think we should have to live in fear of whether or not the NSA style spying will be leveraged against citizens, or make the governments of our world illegitimate by violating citizens trusts and rights. Regardless if they are "legally" allowed, it means nothing if your populous abhors the action and despises the state for it. We should not have to wonder; We should know we can trust that our governments are not evil -- We should be able to prove it. We shouldn't allow them to do anything we don't know about. In the NSA's case they lie to their overseers. The threat such actions pose to national integrity and stability is far too a high a price to pay. The risk is too damn high.
I, for one, think it's hot that the NSA sees my sexts.
When the government retroactively declares your "sexts" to be offensive and illegal material they probably won't arrest you for it -- Unless they decide that they don't like you for some other reason. This is how police states operate. Anything you say or do can and will be used against you. They will not have the obligation to use the information they have to exonerate you. In fact, once they "like you" for a crime the states will employ the practice of Parallel Construction. And no matter how sexy, your sexting habits may be just the ticket to nail you for something else. In other words: We shouldn't help them fuck you. They should have to work for the taxes we pay.
If the NSA didn't do this, we'd already be dead.
Everybody already knew the NSA does this, so it doesn't matter.
This line of reasoning is pure bullshit. We suspected, but we didn't have evidence, and given that Habeas Corpus is now eliminated upon mere accusation of threat it does matter more than ever before. Those who love their country are not so content to have it turned into the same things their soldiers fight against. The greatest risk is that the honorable will STOP fighting for those who are seen as dishonorable when countries become like the enemies the soldiers were trained to despise. The NSA actions, and the spying actions like them by countries world wide are threats to national security and national sovereignty of all the world's peoples.
Finally, the terrorist threat is pathetic, though they say it's nothing to sneeze at the flu kills six times more Ameri
too lazy to find links. but a handful of undersea cables were 'mistakenly' cut by various excuses. I'm sure many people knew it was b.s. and that the gov was splicing them.
People don't seem to notice that EVERY country is running out of money and yet, there are very, very rich people offshore. We don't actually know how rich some people are -- but consider that all the banks that LOST MONEY, had a bundle as they were ripping off a lot of mortgage lenders for years, and getting high rates of return for years and then suddenly it went "poof" to someone, somewhere...
Here in the USA, the government has no money to solve problems, but they've been able to fund "economic easing" for about $1 Trillion a month. It's amazing how it's "not money or an expense" when it "eases" the rough time for banks but it's a huge expense when it turns into school lunch money or teacher wages (but somehow, those aren't created jobs, eh?)
The world economy does not work the way people think it does -- there is more OWED in this world than OWNED and nobody is bankrupt unless a consortium of banks say they are bankrupt. It's just like Taxes and the Stock Market; there are two sets of books. In one set of books, GM runs a deficit for decades, in another, the stock goes up -- which is the truth? Who's asking the question?
If YOU are asking the question, the USA is too broke to be bribing for the NSA, if a multinational corporation is asking, "no problem." The USA is broke because we are in debt to the same corporations who are rigging the game, and I'm sure there are favors the Dutch make to the USA and they are too broke for those. It's called "an exchange." The same way that Credit Card agencies never actually pay anything but the difference between debits and credits and don't actually finance you anything when you make a purchase.
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1. High-tech culture
2. Anime
3. Hentai
4. No NSA
Time to move to Japan!
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