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Chicago Transit System Fooled By Federal ID Cards

New submitter johnslater writes "The Chicago Transit Authority's new 'Ventra' stored-value fare card system has another big problem. It had a difficult birth, with troubles earlier this fall when legitimate cards failed to allow passage, or sometimes double-billed the holders. Last week a server failure disabled a large portion of the system at rush hour. Now it is reported that some federal government employee ID cards allow free rides on the system. The system is being implemented by Cubic Transportation Systems for the bargain price of $454 million."

29 of 196 comments (clear)

  1. $454 million?? by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 5, Insightful

    For that amount, they could have failed at health care for most of the country. How does one city get that far lost?

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    1. Re:$454 million?? by Spy+Handler · · Score: 3, Interesting

      People like to rag on China's rampant corruption and how their high speed rail minister got jailed for skimming $ millions.

      Well, at least they have a functioning high speed rail. USA is just as corrupt, I guess Chicago politics especially, and unlike the Chinese we're left with nothing valuable at the end of the day.

    2. Re:$454 million?? by GigaplexNZ · · Score: 2

      Still cheaper than Myki

    3. Re:$454 million?? by Lumpy · · Score: 2

      It's Chicago, they are so corrupt it makes DC look like the largest source of honest people on the planet. There is a reason why it is a common saying that "in Chicago, the dead vote twice" It is normal that contracts are kickbacks and given projects designed to make companies and people filthy rich while not delivering.

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  2. What's wrong with Tokens? by ScottCooperDotNet · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Why are all cities moving from easy-to-use tokens to these expensive, complicated systems?

    1. Re:What's wrong with Tokens? by runeghost · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well-connected corporations don't get paid hundreds of millions for existing, functional systems.

    2. Re:What's wrong with Tokens? by DarkOx · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The old fashion subway token produces little meta-data the NSA can use to track your every move.

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    3. Re:What's wrong with Tokens? by volstok · · Score: 5, Informative

      Why are all cities moving from easy-to-use tokens to these expensive, complicated systems?

      Cities move away from tokens to fare cards so they can charge variable rates based on supply and demand. During peak usage, they can make the fee higher and during times of lower ridership, fares can be made cheaper to encourage more ridership. Also general rate hikes cannot be done as quickly with tokens because people can buy a mass of tokens just before the rate hike yet still ride with their pre-hike token after the hike goes into effect.

    4. Re:What's wrong with Tokens? by Solandri · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The Chicago Transit Authority provided 620 million rides in 2011. A $454 million system thus represents a cost of just 7 cents per ride over 10 years, compared to the typical $2-$5 fare per ride. I think the vast majority of public transport riders would say an extra 7 cents per ride is worth it for the convenience of a card which they can buy/refill online vs tokens they have to stand in line to buy. Even if the average rider has to fumble around just 10 seconds per trip to buy a token, that represents over two hours per person in lost time each year, and a staggering 196 man-years lost each year for the entire city.

    5. Re:What's wrong with Tokens? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They used to call me paranoid, but not anymore

      I swear, that has got to be the very theme for the American IT industry over the last 20 years. We spent the late 1980s and early 1990s dreaming up all kinds of crazy tinfoil-hat paranoid scifi bullshit. And then many of us all got jobs implementing that crazy tinfoil-hat paranoid scifi bullshit, because the whole thing that made it believable, good paranoid scifi bullshit, was "hey, this is theoretically actually possible to do."

    6. Re:What's wrong with Tokens? by djlemma · · Score: 2

      Well, everybody else is saying tracking.. but there are legitimate reasons to use fare cards. One is that you gain the ability to have unlimited ride passes- pay a flat fee and ride the train for free all month. Hard to do that with tokens. Also, many cities charge variable amounts depending on how far you go on the train. You swipe your card to go in, and swipe again when you leave, and it charges based on distance. That way, short trips can be cheaper. It's also possible to have different prices for different services- like NYC charging a higher fare for an express bus or for the AirTrain to JFK.

    7. Re:What's wrong with Tokens? by aaronb1138 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Several people are trying to make this completely false point in the bullshitty post Snowden mass media... It requires an incredible amount of ignorance to believe. Facial recognition is plenty fast to track you throughout public transit with trivial difficulty. Cards can be swapped and purchased anonymously. Why would any nefarious government agency wishing to track citizens leave it up to chance like that?

    8. Re:What's wrong with Tokens? by aaronb1138 · · Score: 2

      Bonus with facial recognition, they also have clues as to your mood, disposition, and intentions.

    9. Re:What's wrong with Tokens? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      > Why couldn't tokens be purchased online

      Authentication is one huge problem. In the Seattle area, we have the Orca disaster:

      https://www.orcacard.com/

      You typically have to call every time you need to login to add more money through the web site. The automated account creation is still broken, and the receptionist at work spends a full day each month refilling our cards(company pays as a benefit). It's a huge hassle. Even more annoying is that there is so much credit card fraud with Orca that certain banks will automatically suspend your card when you pay since you're not swiping in person like I've done in Chicago and LA that doesn't result in your card being suspended. Every single time I refill my Orca card with my Bank of America credit card, I have to call BoA to get them to unsuspend my card. Also, the Orca employees will refuse to reload the card unless you use the term e-purse. They are ordered to lie and pretend they do not know what the words deposit, add, or reload mean. That makes it even harder for the average person to deal with them.

      Finally, the online deposits are unreliable. From the site after making a purchase:

      "Reminder: To complete transaction, tap card in 24-48 hours.."

      That is the biggest hassle. A lot of people keep the cards for emergencies or for trips, like to the airport, that they only make a few times per year, and Orca will inactivate the amount you deposited and require you to spend hours on the phone with them if you don't "activate" the deposit. There's no technical reason for them to be such jerks and take your money like this.

    10. Re:What's wrong with Tokens? by femtobyte · · Score: 2

      Why stop at one mode of tracking when multiple systems allow far more reliable results? Any one tracking mode will deal with a lot of noise, including intentional obfuscation. You can swap around transit cards; wear a hoodie; leave your cellphone at home/work; etc. However, combine multiple systems and you get something far more robust --- match up a person's cell phone, transit card, and facial features, and you've got a far more reliable tool. You can even identify groups of people trying to subvert one system, and tag them as super-suspicious. Regularly trade transit passes with your friend, and the system can spot that from alternate tracking data, and put you both on "the list" of potential terrorist conspirators (hey, probable cause for full wiretaps on all your other communications, too!).

    11. Re:What's wrong with Tokens? by Lumpy · · Score: 2

      You dont know much about this tech. firstly you have to be damn close for facial recognition to work, only very few systems use HD cameras to be able to work at a distance and then they get overwhelmed when there is more than 5 faces on the camera. Please stop mixing up SciFi with the stuff we really have. In reality, it doesnt work that well because the cops would have it deployed everywhere to have a low effort high capture rate on minor criminals. Even something as simple as the License plate cameras only have an 80% accuracy rate and the cops have to be quite close to you, more than 150 feet away and they cant read a high contrast license plate.

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    12. Re:What's wrong with Tokens? by Lumpy · · Score: 2

      Problem is in chicago, in fact starting now until april the red line becomes a homeless shelter. they get on and dont get off all night long so they have a warm place to sleep.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    13. Re:What's wrong with Tokens? by petermgreen · · Score: 2

      Having cards with only an ID number has disadvantages. Either you require all payment accepters to be continuously online* or you lose the ability to tell people their balance in realtime and refuse people who have run out of credit.

      The best compromise is probably to store the balance on both the card and in a central database. Then cross-check those values frequently to check for foul play.

      * Which is problematic for a transport system.

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    14. Re:What's wrong with Tokens? by cusco · · Score: 2

      Horseshit. You can pay cash on any bus, and I've heard of the Orca system being down once. And what are you babbling about "a paper dollar bill fed to a poorly maintained scanner"? Bills and coins go past the driver, so even if the bill is unreadable the driver can press the button and approve the fare. I take it you don't actually ride Sound Transit.

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    15. Re:What's wrong with Tokens? by cusco · · Score: 2

      So pretty clearly you've never worked with the technology. It's a long, long way from being ready for prime time. It works under very limited circumstances. Consistent lighting, correct placement in the frame (such as walking through a doorway), and everyone facing at the correct angle. Think that's even vaguely achievable at a bus entrance?

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    16. Re:What's wrong with Tokens? by MouseTheLuckyDog · · Score: 2

      Chicago hasn't used tokens for ten years. They use a card system.

      Ventra is not a Chicago system. It is a Chicago-area system. Chicago and it's suburbs are serviced by the RTA of which the CTA (Chicago Transit Authority ) is only a part, yes a big part but still a part. There were the transit version of impedance mismatches between subsystem. Ventra was supposed to fuse all that.

    17. Re:What's wrong with Tokens? by gargeug · · Score: 2

      Except they already had it. It was called the Chicago Card Plus and it worked perfectly for years (source: Chicagoan who used the CTA for many years every day). The question is, why did they have to change it?

    18. Re:What's wrong with Tokens? by xaxa · · Score: 2

      London's system was introduced over 10 years ago.
      - It reduced fare evasion, which existed due to limitations of the previous paper ticket system,
      - It made working out the fare system optional -- they guaranteed it charged the optimal fare
      - It made boarding buses in particular much faster, as it significantly reduced the number of people paying by cash (which was made expensive)
      - It gives much better detail on demand for routes, how long journeys take, etc, so it helps transport planning
      - It's reduced the number of people needing ticket offices, and the latest proposal is to close most of them (staff are to be in the station, and would help a passenger use a ticket machine instead).
      - It's led to the acceptance of contactless credit cards, which isn't yet finished or widespread, but should be more convenient for infrequent users (will the new Chicago system accept these?)

  3. London Oyster by sugar+and+acid · · Score: 4, Informative

    The reason that everybody is trying to move to this type of things is the success of the London oyster card system. Not perfect, but good enough, and is widely adopted.

    The key with the London system was the transit fare system was very well integrated to start with. If you bought a zone 1-4 weekly pass, you could take buses tube and trains everywhere within zone 1-4.

    The trick to getting adoption was the cash "penalty" fare. For instance a cash bus fare is nearly twice the price of an oyster card fare. And if you buy a season ticket it gets loaded onto an oyster card. So anybody in London needs an oyster card, and so has one.

    The other effective thing that was done was to only have oyster top up and ticket sales at stations and offered exclusively to local independent corner stores. The advantage to the store holder is 2 fold, it gave a small financial return to the store owner, but more importantly for the store owner it got people in the store. Topping up oyster cards and at the same time getting a drink or chocolate bar etc. So very quickly every store had one, and in London there are a lot of them so it was widely accessible with very little staffing costs.

  4. Could this be streamlined? by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I just now hopped over to the CTA website and checked out their budget.

    In broad terms, they take in about $650 million from fares, $650 million in public funding (from taxes), and an operating budget of $1.3 billion.

    Hypothetically speaking, what would the budget be if they eliminated fares? The budget doesn't break out the expenses in a way to examine this (at least - I couldn't find it), but it would eliminate a big chunk of the expenses. Not only are there turnstyles and fare sellers, but collection and counting of the money, maintenance on the styles and ticket machines, and so on. Even the financial cost of maintaining a bank account and driving the money to the bank for deposit could be eliminated.

    On the flip side, a person making $15/hr delayed by waiting in line at the turnstyle or purchasing tokens/tickets loses $0.25 worth of time for each minute of delay. A commuter would lose this much twice a day, and the loss would be more valuable if the commuter made more money.

    And this change would benefit poor people the most. It's an efficient way to preferentially give them the benefit of a public service.

    It seems like a more efficient method might be to eliminate the fares and increase public support to cover the difference. The net gain in customer time plus eliminating the fare network might be more than the increase in taxes. Just eliminating the fare mechanisms alone might reduce expenses enough to cover the loss of revenue.

    Has anyone looked into this?

    1. Re:Could this be streamlined? by scamper_22 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What's interesting is the question on why public transit is viewed so differently than other public functions.

      I'm in Canada. Land of public healthcare. We cannot charge people to see a doctor or anything like that.

      Ditto for public education.

      Yet, even in Canada, transit remains that elusive thing that while it is publicly run and subsidized, it is 'unthinkable' that people shouldn't pay for it.
      This is even true of roads, with increasing calls for more tolls to make drivers pay...

      For the life of me, I cannot fathom why we treat public infrastructure (like roads and mass transit) so much differently than we do healthcare and education.

      Yes, there are various nuances. Things like making sure people don't overuse or congest the system. Of course you could just as easily make that argument for healthcare :P But I think the overwhelming argument is simply that transit is not viewed on the same social level as healthcare or education despite the fact that transit is something we used every single day in and out... and quite frankly relative to the size of government budgets, transit itself is fairly inexpensive.

      I laugh with despair when my home province of Ontario spends like 40% of its budget on healthcare, throws billions and billions into education... then people fight and squabble over a hundred million here or there with transit.

      It's ridiculous quite frankly.

    2. Re:Could this be streamlined? by bluegutang · · Score: 2

      "All well-informed transit professionals that were contacted for their opinions spoke strongly against the concept of free fares for large systems, suggesting some minimal fare needs to be in place to discourage vagrancy, rowdiness and a degradation of service. "

      For a full discussion of both sides of the argument:
      http://nextcity.org/daily/entry/as-u.s.-transit-fares-increase-europe-starts-to-make-it-free

  5. The Author of TFA on Free Rides is Lazy by mythosaz · · Score: 2

    [...also, sky blue, water wet.]

    I kept waiting for the article that said, "So we went down to a transit terminal armed with as many different RFID and NFC cards as we could find, trying to see which ones worked and which didn't." Then we used our easily purchasable RFID/NFC card reader to see what information the cards we tried had in common with the Federal IDs and the transit cards -- and here's our findings.

    Now, I understood *that* sort of journalism would have taken a hundred bucks and a couple of hours, but... ...sheesh, people.

  6. Don't know the cost of failure yet ... by drnb · · Score: 2

    For that amount, they could have failed at health care for most of the country. How does one city get that far lost?

    We don't really know what it costs to fail at a national health care IT project yet. They have even started to implement 40% of the functionality.