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Why Bitcoin Is Doomed To Fail, In One Economist's Eyes

Hugh Pickens DOT Com writes "Economist Edward Hadas writes in the NYT that developers of bitcoin are trying to show that money can be successfully privatized but money that is not issued by governments is always doomed to failure because money is inevitably a tool of the state. 'Bitcoin exemplifies some of the problems of private money,' says Hadas. 'Its value is uncertain, its legal status is unclear, and it could easily become valueless if users lose faith.' Besides, if bitcoin ever really started to take off, governments would either ban it or take over the system says Hadas. The authorities might be motivated by a genuine concern about the stability of a shadow monetary system or they might act out of self-preservation because tax evasion would be too easy in a parallel economy. 'Part of the interest in virtual currencies like bitcoin is that their anonymity can provide a convenient cloak for criminal activity. Part is technological — this is a cool idea. And part is speculative — gamblers bet that bitcoin's value will increase,' concludes Hadas. 'Truly private money is an inferior alternative to the money that comes with the backing of a political authority. After all, no bank or bitcoin-emitter can be as public-minded as a government, and no private power can raise taxes or pass laws to unwind monetary excesses.'" Could be there's something good about money that can't be manipulated by law. Some people at least think there's plenty of value in Bitcoin and similar currencies, despite the risks. And those risks at present probably aren't enough to comfort the unfortunate Welsh fellow who (HT to reader judgecorp) "has realised he threw out a hard drive containing 7500 bitcoins, worth £4 million at today's prices. It is now under four feet of garbage in a landfill site the size of a football pitch."

33 of 537 comments (clear)

  1. Nope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    He's just pissed he didn't mine bitcoins when it was still practical.

    1. Re:Nope by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The author doesn't seem to understand how Bitcoin works. He seems to think that some mysterious computer programmer is the "issuer" of the currency. He says that governments will "take control", without explaining any mechanism for them to do so. His grasp of economics is questionable as well. He says that governments have always controlled currency. But prior to the American Civil War, private currency circulated. His claim that governments are better at protecting us from "monetary excess" made me laugh. Bitcoin may fail, but not because of the reasons he gives. But he hedges in his last paragraph, and says bitcoin will thrive "until the authorities do better", which means it may be around forever.

    2. Re:Nope by gl4ss · · Score: 3, Interesting

      yeah it sounds like that.

      if anything it's more legit legally now than when it started.. and yeah, monetary excess. tell that to zimbabwe. very good at protecting from that.

      also, if you're dodging taxes you're dodging taxes.. it's not like using real money or not is affecting that. easy enough for government officials to pop in and check if your store has been declaring any income or not and hey fucking google, apple & all are all moving it through ireland anyways dodging taxes by phony on-paper valuations of their products or services so what new problems would we have again with this?

      except that governments couldn't borrow money from people without asking people - that's what printing or creating more money ultimately is, diluting value of the money already out in circulation and if the money isn't a number on a computer or a stack of paper they print then they just would need to find someone to borrow from if they want to borrow, since they couldn't create bitcoins on a whim. why do governments tend to do that instead of taxing or finding someone to borrow from? well heck it's easier than raising taxes since people don't notice it as fast so you can snowball it for a while before the outrage..

      on the subject of private currencies.. krupp gave out their own currency during the great inflation. normally I'd frown upon forcing you to buy from the company store with your paycheck but damn the government had really fucked up then.

      bitcoin is funny in that it's just numbers, yet people give some value to it because creating the numbers is harder than it is for governments to issue mo' money.

      ultimately it would be fine to have total separation of whoever handles the "money" and the state, which would help people separate their life savings from the state. would be useful. maybe we'll get something like that in a few hundred years.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
    3. Re:Nope by magic+maverick+ · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Moreover, even if bitcoin fails as a currency, it still works very very well as a means of money transfer. Which is one of the reasons I support it. Paypal takes a large chunk of any money transfered, Visa and Mastecard take a large chunk, etc. All can (and have) cut off payments to undesirables. Etc. There are so many issues with centralized payment processors.

      Bitcoin though, is brilliant. Being decentralized, it is strongly resistant to attempts to prevent donations going to "undesirables". The fee charged is a small percentage of that the major companies charge (and is not even required at the moment, as most miners will still process transactions without a fee). Etc.

      And, if you don't keep your money in bitcoin (which does mean you have to trust a thirdparty "exchange"), you don't have to worry about exchange rates either. Just have the bitcoin changed directly to the currency of your choice, and withdrawn immediately from the exchange.

      Also, obviously this economist doesn't know enough about bitcoin to pass judgement. It is not an anonymous currency, at most it is pseudonymous. And, just as obviously, this economist doesn't know about history. As an AC has already said, private currencies were very popular before the 20thC. Around the world.

      --
      HELP MY ACCOUNT HAS BEEN HACKED BY AN ILLIBERAL ART STUDENT SET TO DESTROY THE INTERWEBZ!
    4. Re:Nope by 0123456 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Economists who don't tell banks and governments what they want to hear don't have jobs for long. So, obviously, most of what they publically spout is complete nonsense.

    5. Re:Nope by maxwell+demon · · Score: 5, Informative

      No, BitCoins are not backed by valuable goods (there's no guarantee from anyone that you'll get this or that amount of this or that valuable good for it). It's just that they are traded for valuable goods (that is, there are people willing to give you valuable goods for them — or money in other currencies for which other people will give you valuable goods —, and therefore people will only give them to you for valuable goods — or other currencies —, too). In that respect they are no better than the usual fiat currencies.

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    6. Re:Nope by afxgrin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      A government could take control of Bitcoin in multiple ways:

      1) use massive budget spending to fund an organization to stage a 51% attack on the network. The NSA has the capability to do this. They can coerce private industry to develop ASICs in larger volume production than what currently exists, and shutdown any other ASIC reseller.

      2) give power to police services to setup busts on individuals looking to sell/buy Bitcoins for cash, and shut down Localbitcoins.com or any other website that provides such services. It would be a cat-and-mouse game if sites like Localbitcoins were only in the Tor network, however this increases the difficulty to 'cash out' so it could effectively devalue Bitcoins.

      3) coerce ISPs to install multiple Bitcoin p2p nodes with preferential network conditions so non-sanctioned p2p nodes connect to them first within the data centre and monitor which IP addresses are sending or receiving Bitcoins. Kind of a combination of MITM and setting up multiple wave detectors in a pond, then correlating the point source of the ripple.

      4) use information gleaned from this monitoring to tie Bitcoin addresses to IP addresses, then coerce ISPs to hand over the subscriber information.

      A few ways to to stop this: further decentralize the internet and establish a truly global peer-to-peer mesh network. A massive wireless ad hoc network would work if it can cross the ocean somehow. The other possibility is white listing IP addresses within the Bitcoin p2p mesh, but a white listed IP could always get compromised by the state for some unknown length of time. Namecoin might offer a reasonable solution if it also had a tie-in for tunnelling and rerouting traffic and never allowing 'exit node' like Tor does, however everyone would need to use it. I see it suffering from the same problems as Tor though.

      The author makes one solid implied argument: the state has the ability to resort to threat of violence, detention, financial ruin, seizure of assets over its citizenship.

    7. Re:Nope by Rockoon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The wealth of people, of nations, and of the world is the goods and services that people enjoy. A currency is just a convenient means to exchange goods and services for other goods and services.

      Arguments about inflation, deflation, changes in spot prices, deficits, debts, surpluses, and so on are a distraction because these things are not the problem; they are merely a measure that can indicate a systemic problem.

      For instance, the problem in Zimbabwe isnt the hyperinflation, its that the government exists outside its means: they are using the inflation to rapidly transfer all the credits of accumulated goods and services (which is stored in "currency") to the government because it is not possible to transfer the amount needed any other way. You see that this does not mean that the problem only manifests when there is hyperinflation, nor is it only a problem when inflation exists at all. Accumulating large amounts of debt is another way to do it. The problem remains that the government exists outside its means. It generally only devolves into hyperinflation when the government can no longer issue enough debt, and that happens when it becomes obvious to enough people that its existing outside its means.

      Bitcoin isn't flawed because of anything to do with "value" -- a bad argument the article (and many folks here) tries to make. Bitcoin is flawed because its an arbitrary choice. When the Germany switched to the Euro, the people of Germany happily continued to use Marks. It was not until Germany insisted that taxes be paid in Euros that the country rapidly switched to the new currency. The Euro was just an arbitrary choice that had no justification until the government demanded that taxes be paid in it, and then it instantly became a justified choice, and was rapidly adopted as the justification for the other choice disappeared.

      So why Bitcoin instead of some other virtual currency? While you can find reasons not to use other specific virtual currencies, its still arbitrary to choose Bitcoin over SameAsBitcoinWithAnotherNameAndBlockchain.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
  2. Tulips by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    We've played this game before.

    I look forward to the first Bitcoin Panic, it should be interesting to see what happens...

    1. Re:Tulips by xate · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Tulips

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania
      Thanks for that AC

    2. Re:Tulips by lxs · · Score: 3, Informative

      Don't you mean the second Bitcoin panic? The fork fears in April led to the first panic.

  3. *erior by J'raxis · · Score: 3, Insightful

    'Part of the interest in virtual currencies like bitcoin is that their anonymity can provide a convenient cloak for criminal activity. Part is technological â" this is a cool idea. And part is speculative â" gamblers bet that bitcoin's value will increase,' concludes Hadas. 'Truly private money is an inferior alternative to the money that comes with the backing of a political authority. After all, no bank or bitcoin-emitter can be as public-minded as a government, and no private power can raise taxes or pass laws to unwind monetary excesses.'

    Everything described here is what makes bitcoin a superior form of money, not inferior.

    1. Re:*erior by CastrTroy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The only problem I have with BitCoin at the moment is that it isn't something you want to hold on to. Buy it, do your transaction immediately before the value changes. Somebody pays you in BitCoin, immediately cash out before the value goes down. With most currencies, you can put it in the bank, or under your mattress, and be reasonably sure that in a week it won't have lost half of its value. There are lots of people making sure that the value of the US dollar doesn't do that kind of stuff, because it would be terrible for the economy, to have money changing value so often.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    2. Re:*erior by Calavar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think you're missing the point. Numbers two and three, interest because of the technological wow-factor and interest due to speculation will fade away with time. At that point, all that will be left is interest in the anonymity that Bitcoin provides. And if governments think that this anonymity facilitates crime, they will do everything within their power to either shut Bitcoin down or take over the system, just as Hadas said.

    3. Re:*erior by jonbryce · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If it can go from $1 to $1000 in the space of a year, it can go from $10,000 to $0 in the space of a few miliseconds.

    4. Re:*erior by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      All currencies are volatile, but typically only on the few-percent-per-year level; it's not common news to hear that, e.g., the Yen has changed value relative to the dollar by a factor of two over the past week. Just because all currencies are a little bit volatile doesn't mean that BTC's massive speculation-driven volatility isn't a big issue that sets it apart from currencies useful as currencies (rather than just gambling).

  4. Control by fredprado · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Seems like this economist is too fond of governments to be really objective. The last quote in the summary was specially awful. No bank or financial institution will ever be able to do as much harm to a population as a bad government.

    That said he has a point regarding government interests in taking virtual currencies down or controlling them. The thing is, technologies evolve, and albeit bitcoin may find its end in government interventions, sooner or later other alternatives that are even harder for governments to control will appear. It was the same with file sharing and it will be always like this. People resent control and given the means to avoid it most will.

    1. Re:Control by Calavar · · Score: 4, Informative

      No bank or financial institution will ever be able to do as much harm to a population as a bad government.

      The Panic of 1857 was caused by the irresponsible printing of paper currency by private banks, and the Panic of 1837 (which in urban areas saw unemployment rates on the level of the Great Depression) was greatly exacerbated by it, so history would indicate otherwise.

    2. Re:Control by Calavar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Your original claim was that "no bank or financial institution will ever be able to do as much harm to a population as a bad government." Of course the Weimar Repulic screwed up, but I'm saying that private banks in the US were able to screw up just as badly. It's stupid to put private enterprise on a pedestal as if they are immune to making the same mistakes that big government does.

  5. He's right, but wrongly. by caffiend666 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    He's right, but in the wrong way. All currencies are doomed to fail. As long as people are willing to exchange something for something else, both have value. Most FIAT money has value because governments are willing to exchange it for taxes, so then it has value to almost everyone. When a government collapses, or people lose faith in it, it's currency becomes worthless. Seashells are no longer values as currency, but they once were. Gold/Silver have boom/bust cycles. BitCoin had value because of SilkRoad, and the silk-roaders were willing to accept it for... something. Frankly I'm surprised BitCoin still has value after SilkRoad's demise. If something significant replaces SilkRoad, BitCoin will remain valuable. Until then bitcoin's going on momentum. May crash soon, may not. Will crash eventually.

    --
    Here's to losing my Karma Bonus again....
    1. Re:He's right, but wrongly. by TeknoHog · · Score: 3, Insightful

      BitCoin had value because of SilkRoad, and the silk-roaders were willing to accept it for... something. Frankly I'm surprised BitCoin still has value after SilkRoad's demise. If something significant replaces SilkRoad, BitCoin will remain valuable. Until then bitcoin's going on momentum. May crash soon, may not. Will crash eventually.

      The Silk Road bust put an end to underground drug trade, just like the Suprnova takedown put an end to copyright infringement online.

      Also, there's a metric shitload of things you can legally buy with Bitcoins.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
  6. Re:Explain "Private" by DeathToBill · · Score: 4, Informative

    This is utter crap. With very, very few exceptions, money has always been issued by government. Governments have always imposed currency by requiring that taxes are paid in using it. Governments have always set standards for the production of money. Governments have always punished those who attempt to interfere with money.

    Gold and silver standards were exactly a system of money imposed by governments, effectively legislating the price of the underlying metal. Such standards caused problems exactly because it was a government attempting to impose money at a fixed price to a commodity where the market (ie the people) tried to push to a different price for that commodity.

    I guess you're thinking of 19th century banknotes, issued by private banks, but they are not money as such, just a promissory note which the bank would exchange for a fixed number of coins which were the state-imposed money. Once they became government-backed legal tender they were subsumed into the existing money system (although you might argue that eg UK bank notes are still only promissory notes redeemable for coins, at least in theory). They were never an independent, floating-exchange currency like bitcoin is.

    --
    Slashdot - News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters, in ISO-8859-1 Has just realised that beta makes this signature redundant
  7. Tax by michaelmalak · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'm just waiting for the first tax audits of BitCoin users who get dinged for not having paid capital gains tax. I give it a few years.

  8. Is he confusing bitcoin and cash? by foobar+bazbot · · Score: 3, Interesting

    'Bitcoin exemplifies some of the problems of private money,' says Hadas. 'Its value is uncertain, its legal status is unclear, and it could easily become valueless if users lose faith.

    Cash's value is uncertain, its legal status is ... well, not unclear, but situationally dependent in a pretty bad way[1], and like anything, it becomes valueless if nobody wants it.

    1. In the US, at least, while it's legal to use arbitrarily large amounts of cash in any legal transaction, it's not legal to use it for drug deals, money laundering, etc.. Sounds reasonable so far, but there's a whole boatload of policy and precedent to the effect that having large amounts of cash constitutes evidence that you were using it for drug deals, money laundering, etc., which combined with civil forfeiture, means that having large amounts of cash permits the state to seize that cash, unless you can prove that you were doing something good with it. Short of being an employee of a bank, vending machine company, etc., that's pretty hard.

  9. Re:Economist by gsslay · · Score: 3, Funny

    Absolutely. The compex nature of money should be left to people who know more about it than economists.

    Like... err...

    Maybe Astrologists aren't such a bad idea...

  10. Re:Explain "Private" by jbmartin6 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    There is a bit of a tautology here. If a government issues it, it is defined as "money" if some other entity issues it, it is a "coupon" or whatever. What TFA misses, I think, is that anything can be used as a basis of exchange. I can buy and sell things by denominating the exchange in widgets, well there you go. If I later convert the widgets to US dollars, well that's no difference. May as well say 'world of warcraft gold' for widgets, or whatever you like, in that example. It is an excellent point that since government require protection money to be paid in their own preferred currency, there is a huge advantage in terms of acceptance in the marketplace. This does not mean, however, that other mediums of exchange cannot exist. My main point is that the word "money" is an arbitrary one unless one includes 'issued by governments for payment of protection money' in the definition. Otherwise, me trading babysitting stints with my neighbors also counts as money.

    --
    This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
  11. Translation: Can't make money yet by tlhIngan · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Bitcoin is just alternative currency. There are plenty of that around - most of them are pegged to some other currency though, but they are, for the most part alternative currency.

    Think: Gift Cards (Amazon/Apple/Steam/Google/etc), alternative store currency (Canadian Tire Money), etc. Then there's non-traditional currency, like WoW Gold.

    If anyone says Bitcoin isn't a "money" they're plain old lying. It can be used to facilitate trade (which is the purpose of currency).

    Of course, there are a few fundamental problems with Bitcoin, but there are problems with all currencies.

    When any economist, banker, etc., says Bitcoin is doomed, the real reason is them saying is "we haven't figured out a way to make money on it yet". No currency is invulnerable to making money by doing things of little value, Bitcoin included. It just means the quants haven't sat down to figure out schemes to exploit to get bitcoins for little effort. Either it's because the entire bitcoin market is too small so the benefits of skimming 1/1,000,000th of a Bitcoin from every transaction is barely worth the effort, or other reason.

    That's the real message.

  12. Re:WD et al. by tbannist · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You might need to look at this as a systemic issue. If losing the data on a hard drive (and related backups) can render bitcoins unusable, then over time bitcoins will be lost. I think that means the theory that underpins bitcoin is wrong because it can't be a stable monetary supply if it has a finite number of coins each of which can be destroyed or lost.

    --
    Fanatically anti-fanatical
  13. Re:Economist by linuxdoctor · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Many years ago I compared the general economic forecasts of economists to those of the astrologers in what when then American Astrology magazine, a semi-scholarly attempt at presenting astrology as a legitimate field of scientific inquiry. I followed each of their predictions form five years. The results revealed that economists were right less than 1% of the time while astrologers were right about 10% of the time. Since we all know that astrology is bogus the results say a lot about economists. Maybe it's time to do the study again.

  14. Re:Funny, you don't *look* like Uncle Sam's intern by hibiki_r · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Implicit taxation through inflation? First, inflation is extremely low on the entire western world. Second, inflation only eats away at you if you are sitting on currency as assets, which is a terrible thing to do. If most of your wealth is being productive somewhere, changes in the medium of account shouldn't matter a bit.

    Now, having zero inflation, or all the way into deflation, is not a good thing for an economy. We have this fundamental problem called Money Illusion. It's been measured in a whole lot of studies, just look it up. As long as there's money illusion, in practice, economies work better when economies grow in a predictable manner, which implies some mild inflation. Without said inflation, velocity drops, and with it economic activity. We really, really, don't want a shrinking GDP. A central bank is a compromise to make sure that someone, in some way, is actually altering the money supply to achieve that objective. What we need though is a way to make sure central banks are making less decisions that look like reading entrails, and more that are empirically testable and forward looking.

  15. Re:WD et al. by ArbitraryName · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Bitcoins are limited in number forever.

    Bitcoins are infinitely divisible.

  16. Offer/Demand Law by DrYak · · Score: 5, Informative

    If they aren't reported lost then how would they know if I didn't just put them under my mattress? If they have been reported lost, can they be reinstated later when they are found?

    The value of Bitcoin fluctuate depending on demand/supply.

    Currently the supply of bitcoin is low and only slowly increasing (only 25 BTC per mined block are shared across all the users of the mining pool which successfully validated the block, and the total number can be computer around 12 mio).
    Currently the demand is expanding (bitcoins can be used as payment medium in an ever increasing number of shops. The days where Silk Road was the main place were you could buy/sell using BTC are long over [and in fact, during some time, Silk Road was down due to being seized by authorities. At that time the BTC market barely noticed]. Also BTC are in demand by traders [although again given the low impact of various pump-n-dump attempts, traders don't have as much an influence today as back then] ).
    Hence currently the price is globally heading up (with more or less some small very localised perturbations).

    But globally, BTC evolve according to demand/supply AND ONLY demande/supply. (Unlike fiat currencies which can be manipulated by printing more or less bills by the controlling state).

    If some coins stop circulating (either because you destroyed the harddrive cointaining the private keys to spent them, or simply because you forgot about them, or because you're hiding them as a reserve for later) the total number of "coins currently available on the market" will get a bit lower (a bit under the current 12 mio). Because of that, simply following the demand/supply rule, the price of bitcoin will increase a little bit.
    If suddenly you brought them back into circulation (you remembered that damn password, found the old laptop that you though was thrown away, or simply decide to use your reserve) the number of circulating coins increases, and because of the slightly increased supply, its price decreases a bit.

    Now the "magic" of bitcoin is that its a decentralised currency.
    - In a centralized currency, the issuer can massively print new money. Or destroy gigantic amount of bills. Such large scale variation of the supply can cause big changes in the value of the money, and thus the state can manipulate its own money. Create inflation or deflation depending on needs. Thus value of money is not only influenced by pure demand/supply rule in the market, but also very directly by government and politics.
    - In a decentralized currency, *nobody* owns the system and nobody in particular decides, instead all agree. (Nobody will accept your mined block if you granted yourself 1000 BTC instead of the current 24+fees)
    Also, most of the people only own a small part of the whole amount of bitcoins. So any "bitcoins pulled out of circulation" by 1 single individual will only concern a very small amount, a small fraction from the whole stash, and thus barely have any registrable effect (the theoretical effect of you not spending your 100 BTC on the value of the whole 12 mio will be smaller than the noise).
    A single individual (or government body) can't influence much the value of bitcoins. (For influence to be successful, that would require massive coordination of a sizeable proportion of all bitcoin holder. Which would be near to impossible given how much the money is spread).
    The only influence of bitcoin going in and out of market that can be sizeable is the total influence of all bitcoins getting lost.
    If over the first 10 years of bitcoin lifetime 1 million total of coins get completely lost for ever, the overall price will jump up by 5-10% accordingly.

    So it's a situation of "the market will heal itself".

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  17. Re:WD et al. by erpbridge · · Score: 3, Informative

    The coins themselves are not lost, as they are not themselves stored on the drive. Rather, the drive contains the user's key and their respective addresses, to which they match themselves up to the network. This is why if the file wallet.dat is stolen, someone can easily open the Bitcoin client with the stolen copy, authorize the transmission of coins from that key to another address, and then just wait for the transmission to be validated.

    There is, however, no mechanism for the recovery by the network for addresses and keys which have been lost or destroyed. I personally mined slightly more than 4 bitcoins out of curiosity back in 2011, then stopped as I ran the power cost to income calculations. I eventually rebuilt that system, but accidentally destroyed that wallet.dat. Although I know the public receive address, I don't have the key associated with it to claim those transactions in the network that indicate the 4BTC. The claim to the transactions which represent those coins collectively are essentially irrevocably lost, with no way of the network as a whole reclaiming them due to inactivity as the system currently stands. The transactions are still present in the Blockchain, just no one can claim them.