Ask Slashdot: Why So Hard Landing Interviews In Seattle Versus SoCal?

An anonymous reader writes "I have been trying to make the move to the Seattle, WA area. I liked the weather, the nature, the scenery and the tech environment. However, for whatever reason it seems like interviews are hard to come by. As a MS Stack software developer in LA, I barely had to do anything and recruiters always come knocking, either via LinkedIn or from past connections. Not to mention in general I got phone interviews for easily .8 of the positions I applied for. I wanted to finally make the move and fulfill a live long dream to live in Seattle. So I have been applying for positions in the greater Seattle, WA (King County) area. So far the ratio of positions applied to phone interviews is a dismal .1. Which is terrible considering the economy was much worse when I was actively looking for job in LA. Something isn't right because I am still getting offers for interviews here in SoCal, but not much from where I really wanted to be. What could I be doing wrong? Why such a contrast? Is the IT market in Seattle in poor shape? Or may be I just lack the proper connections in a new area? Am I just being screened out immediately for not being local? Or is it the prevalence of bigger corporations vs. smaller startups? And frankly as nice as the city is I can't move unless there's a healthy IT market to thrive by. I hope someone can point me in the right direction."

Comments

Market Saturation

[multimediavt]

MS Stack software developer

I am just taking a stab in the dark here as I don't really know, but maybe there are a lot of "MS Stack software" developers in the home of MS. If they got a ton of them already in town why import more?

Re:Market Saturation

[Anonymous Coward]

I can also confirm this to be true. Friends of mine that are highly specialized into Microsoft tend to work there and often have a hard time if they decide to leave. We have a major glut of people with Microsoft experience, given that the company is down the street, so you're competing directly with people who can say "I've done it at and for Microsoft". From what I hear from my friends that have worked there, it's also not uncommon to want to leave after you get a taste, which doesn't help you either.

The Linux/BSD folks up here can find a new job pretty much whenever they like.

Weather intolerance risk?

[ddt]

I'm hip-shooting, but it could be that as an LA resident, you're experiencing some prejudice. They go months in Seattle with nothing but gray skies and/or rain, and you have to remain productive. The lack of interest could be due to the perceived risk that you might not be able to hack the gloomy weather.

I'm in the same boat, btw. I live in Santa Monica, and I love the weather here. I would prefer to live amoungst Washingtonians if for no other reason than higher quality conversation, but I know I couldn't handle the Seattle weather for long.

Re:Weather intolerance risk?

[zidium]

Man, Texas ain't half that bad!

I work in Houston, make ~$100,000, don't pay any state income taxes, have a 7% sales tax rate in my city, and a $800 two bedroom apartment 15 minutes from work. I doubt I could have all that in very many other states.

Oh, and we have sun like 230 days a year (compared to Seattle's ~100), and it's never really cold (it snows maybe once every 7 years).

Re:Weather intolerance risk?

[TangoMargarine]

Slashdot is a Western website. "Industrial Revolution" generally refers to the West. Get over it. Hell, this is an article debating the merits of California vs. Seattle!

Re:Duh

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow. You would think throwing out so many insults, that you would learn how to spell properly and use basic grammar. As it is, you sound like a semi-literate, drooling moron.

Re:Get a local phone number

[tgd]

It's hard to imagine that a tech company would screen candidates based on area codes these days. I've been living in Seattle for over five years and still have a 415 (San Francisco) area code. I think people tend not to change their phone numbers when moving anymore.

That being said, I'm graduating soon with a PhD in bioinformatics, have an MS in computer science, and I'm not getting any interviews with large tech companies in the area. Maybe I do need a local phone number...

I would bet anything but the real big companies always does. Local hires (and candidates when it comes time to interview) are a lot cheaper. If your cell phone doesn't match where you live, you should indicate where you live on your resume.

The GPs suggestion of pretending to live in Seattle is a bad idea. I've hired LOTS of people over the years, and if anyone ever pulled that, their resume would be round filed no matter how good they might be.

IMO, if he wants to live in Seattle, and wants to find a job there, his best bet is to just move.

Demand for Microsoft Skills Declining?

[Nivag064]

Remember that the need for Microsoft developers will soon decline, if it has not already done so.

Most devices run Linux.

Mobile phones are dominated by Linux, as are most other mobile devices such as eBooks, and Linux is gaining ground in tables with Android & Chrome O/S. Linux dominates servers: note that essentially all Valve, Dig, and Google servers (I expect that they probably do run the odd Microsoft server, although I have no evidence of this) run Linux - not Microsoft. At least 95% of the top 500 supercomputers run Linux.

More and more companies and organisations are adopting Linux as their primary O/S on the desktop like the French Gendarmerie (http://www.zdnet.com/french-police-move-from-windows-to-ubuntu-linux-7000021479) and the local Government of a region in Spain (https://joinup.ec.europa.eu/community/osor/news/spains-extremadura-starts-switch-40000-government-pcs-open-source).

At home we have 2 Linux workstations (3, if you count my old development box I normally keep powered down), 2 Linux laptops, 2 Android phones, an Apple desktop, and an iPhone - for 2 adults and a teenager. Note no Microsoft boxen.

So for professional reasons, you should at least be investigating moving your skill base to Linux!

Re:Demand for Microsoft Skills Declining?

[Nivag064]

Unless it has changed in the last few years: I recall people where advised to just have one major application per Microsoft box, whereas running multiple apps on Linux was much more common, also Linux tends to have better performance in general and superior security. Plus Microsoft boxen tend to need more work.

So you generally need more Microsoft boxen to handle a given workload than when using
Linux. As more companies wake up to that, Linux market share will gain even more.

I know that a lot of decisions to go with Microsoft are done out of political considerations (I had a friend working at the New Zealand Tax department, who could testify to that!), and ignorance. Changing to Linux for political reasons, or because it is 'fashionable', is a recipe for disaster - Linux is no panacea, one still needs to be competent and have sufficient budget (even if the Linux solution is cheaper than the Microsoft one, as is usually the case) .

Note that Linux & Unix totally dominate supercomputers. Stock exchange rely on Linux boxen to handle trading, Microsoft boxen simply aren't up to handle the load reliably at the performance levels required.

I remember a very slick presentation/debate between a Microsoft guy pushing NT and someone representing
Unix. In terms of presentation, the Microsoft guy won hands down - but NT had a notable limitation of only being able to support 32 concurrent users, whereas Unix boxen had no problems supporting hundreds of users.

However, as Linux servers increase their market share, there will be added pressure on the Microsoft job market.

Google is extremely cost conscious, so if Microsoft did really have a far better ROI on Linux, than Google would be using mostly Microsoft boxen.

I have 35 virtual desktops on my main development box (32GB RAM), currently using a bit over half of them - I've never seen this facility on a Microsoft box. I have 2 highly customised panels that autohide using the Mate Desktop Environment Manager - the Microsoft Desktop Environment Managers are far less customisable. As for Microsoft's Window 8, that is worse than GNOME 3, and is demonstration of leading innovation at pissing off both users and developers.

When I use a Microsoft box, I feel like I'm flying blind without adequate instrumentation.

It is easier for teenagers to get in depth experience of Linux, compared to Microsoft. Any one can download the Linux source code and compile it legally, this is generally not possible with Microsoft. So even before the Raspberry Pie, far more younger people were training themselves in Linux than Microsoft. So it is far easier to hire new people with in depth Linux skills, than Microsoft skills. Plus Linux runs on a wider variety of hardware than does Microsoft. So it is not surprising that the overall market share of Linux is already dominating all other operating systems put together!

So the medium to long term trend on servers, definitely favours Linux.

Re:It's the global warming

[JustNiz]

You should move here to Phoenix, AZ. Blue skies maybe 340 days of the year.

Before Global Warming/Climate Change...
F'ing hot but everywhere has good AC, cold beer and most houses have swimming pools.

Now/After Global Warming
F'ing hot but everywhere has good AC, cold beer and most houses have swimming pools.

Re:Get a local phone number

[KenFury]

Years ago I was in Seattle and had a greater Washington mailing address and Area code. I was getting no responses. After that I changed to a 206 cell and gave a friends mailing address off Cap Hill. It made a huge difference. Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal

Information and Networking are key

[forevermore]

As someone who has had no trouble getting interviews in the past (outside of the year or so post-dotcom bust), and more recently as a hiring manager who has just as much trouble finding candidates *worth* interviewing as you seem to be getting those interviews, here's the best advice I can give out:

1. Be honest about your address and intentions. If someone applies to my "local applicants only" job with an address in CA I don't even bother to read the resume. However, if you mention in your introduction email (cover letter?) that you want to move to the area and plan to be making a trip up in the next couple of weeks ("to visit some friends", "for a couple of interviews", whatever), I'll give your resume the same consideration as I would to a local candidate. I might even fast-track a phone screen if you look good, so I can schedule an interview to take advantage of that time you'd be here. Do your best to make your trip description emphasize how serious you are about looking for a job in the area -- it will bypass the concern a lot of small companies have paying to fly you into town for an interview (not worth it with so many great local candidates), and should hopefully prevent you from sounding presumptuous about expecting an interview.

2. Find some good recruiters. I don't know a single tech worker who enjoys dealing with recruiters (most put off the same vibe as the stereotypical used car salesman) but there are a lot of VC-funded startups that hire exclusively through recruiting firms. Reach out to big guys like greythorn and volt, and do some searching on linkedin and other sites for smaller firms (which often have much more interesting work). Reaching out directly to them will help you get the message across that you want to move, and in turn they will help convince the hiring manager that you're worth talking to despite currently being out of state.

3. You mentioned Seattle and MS in the same description. Be aware that there is a giant invisible line down the middle of Lake Washington. Though there is some MS stuff (at least on the web side of things, which is what I know best) in Seattle, there is a lot more of it on the East Side (Bellevue, Redmond) closer to Microsoft itself.

4. It may help to get a local phone number, but honestly if you mark your non-206 number as "cell" and direct eyes toward your email address, I can't think how it would hurt your chances. FWIW, unless asked on a job application form at a big company, I'm not sure I've ever given my phone number out to a prospective employer until asked for it in order to schedule a phone screen.

5. Yes, there really are that many good candidates in the area. You're competing with locals who are more readily available for interviews or followup interviews, so you need to stand out more than they do. And it's not just about weighing the costs of bringing a non-local candidate in for an interview -- I personally hate giving video interviews and will do everything I can to avoid them (I get so much more out of the interview if I can actually interact with a candidate; after all, personality-fit is as important as technical competence).

6. On the other hand, there really are a lot of good jobs here, too (Amazon's hiring spree high pay has made it a pretty competitive market, too). Consider broadening your skill set. I know there is often a wide cultural gap between the kinds of devs who focus on MS vs Linux, but if I'm just looking for a good developer/engineer rather than a language expert, I'll be much more interested in you if your resume has more than just the one stack (Ruby+dotNet, dotNet+Java, etc). You could also take this as a "don't complain about picky companies if you're limiting yourself to a single technology subset".

7. Be willing to work contracts. Microsoft itself is well-known for preferring to hire people through staffing agencies (corp-to-corp contract) rather than through direct hiring, and they're not alone among the larger companies. The staffing company becomes your employer while you work the contract (avoid 1099 contracts unless you fully understand the tax implications), and you don't have to feel too bad if you leave for a better gig a few months into the contract.

Anyway, I hope this helps someone.