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Scientists Boost the "Will To Persevere" With Current To the Brain

schliz writes "Stanford scientists say they could help boost people's motivation to overcome difficulties by electrically stimulating the anterior midcingulate cortex in the brain. The study involved two patients, who described the 'will to persevere' beautifully. One said it was like driving into a storm front and knowing that he had to get through. From the article: 'Stanford University neuroscientists passed a small current through an area in the part of the brain that deals with error detection, anticipation of tasks, attention, motivation, and emotional responses. Both patients involved in the study had epilepsy, and already had electrodes implanted in their brains to help doctors learn about the source of their seizures."

20 of 127 comments (clear)

  1. This has existed a long time by themushroom · · Score: 4, Interesting

    a) I recall there being experiments in the 1980s where rodent brains were wired to where the mouse would press a bar to get a jolt to its pleasure center, and it would procede to bang that bar until it passed out.
    b) The news and hospitals are filled with people who have already proven that psychoactive drugs such as PCP and angel dust, and of late methamphetamins, will have a "will to perservere" at whatever they're doing (be it tweaking with the heat sinks on a stereo or trying to release demons from one's brain with a hand drill and a piece of metal coat hanger) that lasts for days or until incidental death, whichever comes first.

    1. Re:This has existed a long time by muhula · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Except that will to persevere and pleasure are two distinctly different things.

    2. Re:This has existed a long time by khallow · · Score: 2
      I strongly disagree. Addictions and habit-forming behaviors are easy to get into. The "will to persevere" is the ability to continue to do some hard or painful task in the face of easier and less painful alternatives.

      be it tweaking with the heat sinks on a stereo or trying to release demons from one's brain with a hand drill and a piece of metal coat hanger

      Don't confuse an act of desperation and confusion with an act of will.

    3. Re:This has existed a long time by VortexCortex · · Score: 2

      As someone who studies organic and artificial neural networks -- Prove it. "Persevere" is such a complex emergent behaviour that there's not really one brain region responsible for it. For instance: When you're just about to have an orgasm, try to stop. It's difficult. There's a "will to persevere" during high pleasure activities, specifically at climax.

      Adding energy to a system adds energy to a system...

  2. Movie idea by Ukab+the+Great · · Score: 5, Funny

    You could make a film about a pile of dead body parts assembled into the form of a man being shocked by lightning and being given the will to live. You could even add some wanton violence and philosophical questions of existence to make the story interesting.

  3. W.C. Fields would disapprove by ebno-10db · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. No use being a damn fool about it.

    -- W.C. Fields

    With that in mind, is it a good idea to get people to continue to engage in futile endeavors? Who says quitting is always a bad thing.

    P.S. I started to write this as a joke, but now I'm not so sure. For all we glorify perseverance, sometimes it's idiotic.

    1. Re:W.C. Fields would disapprove by wbr1 · · Score: 2

      Winners never quit, quitters never win. Those who never quit -and- never win are idiots.

      --
      Silence is a state of mime.
    2. Re:W.C. Fields would disapprove by Kjella · · Score: 5, Insightful

      With that in mind, is it a good idea to get people to continue to engage in futile endeavors? Who says quitting is always a bad thing.

      I like this one:

      Quitters never win, winners never quit, but those who never win and never quit are idiots.

      Persistence is good if it gets you anywhere, but if you're just obsessing over things you can't do, can't change, can't make work, can't achieve then give up and move on. Particularly I hate people who can't ever accept that the team, the project or someone in authority has made a decision they disagree with and continue to reopen the issue, dredge up old discussions and undermine the decision. I've had one extreme case where a person on the project team was trash talking it to the rest of the company during the official presentation, essentially saying this is what we're delivering and it's crap and not what I wanted or how I'd design it.

      My impression is that overall people have too much persistence and can't stop flogging the dead horse, if things are that bad or that hopeless stop trying to make it work and get out. If your boss is a total ass hat, find another job don't try to fix it. If your girlfriend is a total fruitcake don't try to reason with crazy. If nobody wants to buy what you're selling, you're probably wrong about what they wanted in the first place. Move on, try again. Except the exceptions of course, where banging your head on the same brick wall many enough times will lead to it cracking. But I wouldn't waste my head on that.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  4. Re:Sounds perfect for high risk suicide patients by sexconker · · Score: 2

    What if it just makes them persevere at attempting suicide?

  5. robocop was somewhat like that by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 2

    robocop was somewhat like that with more the body fully intact and no lightning.

  6. Re:battle helmet by bob_super · · Score: 4, Funny

    You didn't see the old documentary?

    Pain the helmet black and your soldier's reaction to dismemberment becomes either "'tis but a scratch" or "that's just a flesh wound", and he keeps on fighting.

  7. Motivation by SJHillman · · Score: 3, Funny

    You zap me, and sure, I'll be motivated to do whatever the hell you're zapping me to make me do.

    1. Re:Motivation by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      Problem is that my only motivation is to stop you from zapping. That can be accomplished temporarily by doing your bidding or permanently by killing you.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  8. Impossible! by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Everyone knows that 'willpower' is an intangible substance that some people possess more of, because they are better, and other people lack, because they are bad. I don't want to hear any more of this materialist nonsense. The rest of the universe may be causal; but human behavior isn't, because something!

  9. Re:ahh yess, ahh yess by jbmartin6 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I like your point. I remember once reading about a guy trapped high up on some huge mountain somewhere, maybe Everest, about to die in a storm. One of his last acts was speaking via radio to his wife, who had just had a baby. And I thought, what the hell are you doing on that mountain with a wife and newborn at home?

    --
    This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
  10. Re: Scientists Boost the "Will To Persevere" With by MobSwatter · · Score: 2

    That's so wonderful, is there anything else we can do to enhance incoherent thought process?

  11. Could turn our lives into a dystopia... by Camembert · · Score: 4, Interesting

    While scientifically interesting, I can imagine a dystopian future where employers mandate their works to wear special "brain helmets" so that they are fully focused on the task at hand...

    1. Re:Could turn our lives into a dystopia... by jd · · Score: 2

      Been there, done that. Beanies are completely ineffective at helping concentration. Yours or anyone else's.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
  12. Re:Hook me up by jd · · Score: 2

    Why would you want to connect your brain to the Internet? Far too great a risk of an NSA virus.

    What you want to do is place your brain in a networked, Earthquake-proof, fire-proof enclosure, with an Infiniband connection to a Linux server. This would then be linked, via an OpenBSD firewall, to the Internet and also to some sort of ROV that can act as a relay between brain and body.

    Meanwhile, your skull would contain an embedded computer, a massive multiplexer/demultiplexer to link up the nervous system and a very high bandwidth microwave link to the ROV.

    It would reduce bandwidth requirements and latency if the motor neurons remained in the skull, with the rest of the brain transmitting only executive instructions and not specific nerve impulses. Those could be generated more locally. Split brains are found in squid, so we know this kind of isolation is possible. You'd also need a smaller computer, as it would largely be relegated to providing network security, error correction and data compression/decompression. This means you could increase the number of motor neurons, increasing the sophistication of muscle response.

    From the brain-at-home POV, removing motor neurons means reducing distances between the other parts of the brain, reducing response time. (Since microwaves are a fair bit faster than electrochemical chains for transmitting data, latency due to distance is insignificant. You would be limited by signal strength and error correction codes, but the radius would be far beyond typical distances travelled by westerners anyway.)

    Dissecting the brain further, with no executive functions in the skull to contend with, eyes could be larger, giving you higher resolution at the same number of distinguishable colours, or more colours at the same resolution. This would require the optic centres to be cut out of the brain and enlarged accordingly. Unlike those parts dealing with memory, the structure of the visual cortex probably won't vary much. By replacing the synapses with optic fibre, you can reduce latency, reduce errors, increase resilience to aging, reduce space requirements and eliminate tau protein knots. The reduced space means more visual cortex for the same response time, letting you process every scrap of available data rather than wasting it as the brain currently does.

    Much the same applies to hearing and sense of balance. You could probably double your frequency range and your ability to distinguish tilt.

    You may be more restricted in movement, but you would exchange it for superhuman senses and superhuman reflexes.

    --
    It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
  13. Re:I could use some of that by kermidge · · Score: 2

    Thirty years and hitting the sauce, not the best of odds, but hey, go for it. (I was lucky, back mid-Eighties after twenty years of hard drinking; about the only thing that hadn't been adversely affected was my liver. Go figure.)

    "I don't think I'm smarter than the average person, just smart enough to observe our species' behaviour.. and despair." If you can provide for your physical needs, then it's just an uncomfortable state of mind. If your situation is worse, then it gets really annoying, trending to flat-out bad, going by personal experience.

    Like many a tool, if what these guys have found gets used, some of the uses will be ungood. But for someone caught up in a situation that by most lights just needs for them to apply a little extra oomph, might be a good thing - with consent, of course.