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Scientists Boost the "Will To Persevere" With Current To the Brain

Posted by samzenpus on from the volts-or-forget-about-it dept.

schliz writes "Stanford scientists say they could help boost people's motivation to overcome difficulties by electrically stimulating the anterior midcingulate cortex in the brain. The study involved two patients, who described the 'will to persevere' beautifully. One said it was like driving into a storm front and knowing that he had to get through. From the article: 'Stanford University neuroscientists passed a small current through an area in the part of the brain that deals with error detection, anticipation of tasks, attention, motivation, and emotional responses. Both patients involved in the study had epilepsy, and already had electrodes implanted in their brains to help doctors learn about the source of their seizures."

87 of 127 comments (clear)

  1. This has existed a long time by themushroom · · Score: 4, Interesting

    a) I recall there being experiments in the 1980s where rodent brains were wired to where the mouse would press a bar to get a jolt to its pleasure center, and it would procede to bang that bar until it passed out.
    b) The news and hospitals are filled with people who have already proven that psychoactive drugs such as PCP and angel dust, and of late methamphetamins, will have a "will to perservere" at whatever they're doing (be it tweaking with the heat sinks on a stereo or trying to release demons from one's brain with a hand drill and a piece of metal coat hanger) that lasts for days or until incidental death, whichever comes first.

    --
    Laughter is the Spackle of the Soul.
    1. Re:This has existed a long time by muhula · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Except that will to persevere and pleasure are two distinctly different things.

    2. Re:This has existed a long time by fractoid · · Score: 1

      And your response to point b)?

      --
      Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
    3. Re:This has existed a long time by khallow · · Score: 2
      I strongly disagree. Addictions and habit-forming behaviors are easy to get into. The "will to persevere" is the ability to continue to do some hard or painful task in the face of easier and less painful alternatives.

      be it tweaking with the heat sinks on a stereo or trying to release demons from one's brain with a hand drill and a piece of metal coat hanger

      Don't confuse an act of desperation and confusion with an act of will.

    4. Re:This has existed a long time by nospam007 · · Score: 1

      "Except that will to persevere and pleasure are two distinctly different things."

      Also, if it is just an electrical current, is it still a 'will'?

    5. Re:This has existed a long time by VortexCortex · · Score: 2

      As someone who studies organic and artificial neural networks -- Prove it. "Persevere" is such a complex emergent behaviour that there's not really one brain region responsible for it. For instance: When you're just about to have an orgasm, try to stop. It's difficult. There's a "will to persevere" during high pleasure activities, specifically at climax.

      Adding energy to a system adds energy to a system...

    6. Re:This has existed a long time by blueup · · Score: 1

      ... psychoactive drugs ... trying to release demons from one's brain with a hand drill and a piece of metal coat hanger...

      (citation needed)
      I have heard a similar story before, but haven't been able to find any useful reference, and have presumed it to be an urban legend. (snopes doesn't have this particular one, as far as i can tell)

      As a parent, and occasional teacher of other children, though, more evidence on a subject such as this would be useful, if you have any.
      thanks-

      --
      -- The above may have once been believed by me, but any truth or application you find is your own problem.
    7. Re:This has existed a long time by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      It's an electrical current either way.

      From the electrodes or from the neurons.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
  2. Movie idea by Ukab+the+Great · · Score: 5, Funny

    You could make a film about a pile of dead body parts assembled into the form of a man being shocked by lightning and being given the will to live. You could even add some wanton violence and philosophical questions of existence to make the story interesting.

    1. Re:Movie idea by CTachyon · · Score: 1

      You could make a film about a pile of dead body parts assembled into the form of a man being shocked by lightning and being given the will to live. You could even add some wanton violence and philosophical questions of existence to make the story interesting.

      You mean Frank Henenlotter's 1990 masterpiece, Frankenhooker , of which Bill Murray said (and I quote) "if you see one movie this year, it should be Frankenhooker"?

      --
      Range Voting: preference intensity matters
    2. Re:Movie idea by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      You could make a film about a pile of dead body parts assembled into the form of a man being shocked by lightning and being given the will to live. You could even add some wanton violence and philosophical questions of existence to make the story interesting.

      And don't forget the enormous schwanzstucker.

  3. it's alive... ALIVE by themushroom · · Score: 1

    I have mod points but I already posted so I can merely suggest this get my proxy +1.

    --
    Laughter is the Spackle of the Soul.
  4. W.C. Fields would disapprove by ebno-10db · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. Then quit. No use being a damn fool about it.

    -- W.C. Fields

    With that in mind, is it a good idea to get people to continue to engage in futile endeavors? Who says quitting is always a bad thing.

    P.S. I started to write this as a joke, but now I'm not so sure. For all we glorify perseverance, sometimes it's idiotic.

    1. Re:W.C. Fields would disapprove by wbr1 · · Score: 2

      Winners never quit, quitters never win. Those who never quit -and- never win are idiots.

      --
      Silence is a state of mime.
    2. Re:W.C. Fields would disapprove by righteousness · · Score: 1

      There is such a thing as quitting while you're ahead.

      --
      Don't fornicate. Seriously, just don't do it.
    3. Re:W.C. Fields would disapprove by Kjella · · Score: 5, Insightful

      With that in mind, is it a good idea to get people to continue to engage in futile endeavors? Who says quitting is always a bad thing.

      I like this one:

      Quitters never win, winners never quit, but those who never win and never quit are idiots.

      Persistence is good if it gets you anywhere, but if you're just obsessing over things you can't do, can't change, can't make work, can't achieve then give up and move on. Particularly I hate people who can't ever accept that the team, the project or someone in authority has made a decision they disagree with and continue to reopen the issue, dredge up old discussions and undermine the decision. I've had one extreme case where a person on the project team was trash talking it to the rest of the company during the official presentation, essentially saying this is what we're delivering and it's crap and not what I wanted or how I'd design it.

      My impression is that overall people have too much persistence and can't stop flogging the dead horse, if things are that bad or that hopeless stop trying to make it work and get out. If your boss is a total ass hat, find another job don't try to fix it. If your girlfriend is a total fruitcake don't try to reason with crazy. If nobody wants to buy what you're selling, you're probably wrong about what they wanted in the first place. Move on, try again. Except the exceptions of course, where banging your head on the same brick wall many enough times will lead to it cracking. But I wouldn't waste my head on that.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  5. Re:Sounds perfect for high risk suicide patients by sexconker · · Score: 2

    What if it just makes them persevere at attempting suicide?

  6. ahh yess, ahh yess by themushroom · · Score: 1

    I started to write this as a joke, but now I'm not so sure. For all we glorify perseverance, sometimes it's idiotic.

    I just think of the old phrase, "why does man climb a mountain? because it's there"... really, is that a valid reason?
    Granted, I spent most of a day getting a WiFi card to work with Linux on a circa-2000 notebook and will likely erase the hard drive in the near future. It's the challenge or the adventure or... well, ego, okay?... even if there's really no point in an endeavor. The more dangerous without a tangible reward, the better.

    --
    Laughter is the Spackle of the Soul.
    1. Re:ahh yess, ahh yess by jbmartin6 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      I like your point. I remember once reading about a guy trapped high up on some huge mountain somewhere, maybe Everest, about to die in a storm. One of his last acts was speaking via radio to his wife, who had just had a baby. And I thought, what the hell are you doing on that mountain with a wife and newborn at home?

      --
      This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
    2. Re:ahh yess, ahh yess by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      There are many of us who don't live in fear every day. We just don't need to keep "nearly dying" in order to live.

    3. Re:ahh yess, ahh yess by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      That was Rob Hall. And the reason why was obvious: because he valued his "adventure" lifestyle more than he valued his family. Not so shocking these days, eh?

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  7. on your next job application...... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    [ ] Initial this box to consent to a motivational brain implant. Failure to initial this box will negatively affect your potential employment.

    1. Re:on your next job application...... by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      That was my first thought, another thing that will be practically required to compete on the job market, oh yay...just wait until those sleep substitute pills hit the shelves.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
  8. robocop was somewhat like that by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 2

    robocop was somewhat like that with more the body fully intact and no lightning.

    1. Re:robocop was somewhat like that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      whoosh.

      I hope everyone remembers Slashdot is an international forum and not everyone has the same cultural heritage.

      Although everyone in the Western world probably immediately connected with "Frankenstein", those with different cultural heritage may be as unfamiliar with our cultural relics as we are with theirs.

      No harm, no foul.

    2. Re:robocop was somewhat like that by righteousness · · Score: 1

      I can't think of why anyone who posts to slashdot would not be familiar with the Frankenstein monster.We're talking about someone who is internet literate here, not someone living in the backwaters of India with no access to television or the internet.

      --
      Don't fornicate. Seriously, just don't do it.
    3. Re:robocop was somewhat like that by mbstone · · Score: 1

      Even if you live in the backwaters of India (redundant) you are expected to read and memorize TV Tropes before posting to Slashdot.

    4. Re:robocop was somewhat like that by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

      I can't think of why anyone who posts to slashdot would not be familiar with the Frankenstein monster.

      Perhaps because out of the 7 billion people on this planet, 6,999,999,999 of them are not you.

      I can't think of a reason to assume that anyone who posts to slashdot would necessarily be familiar with Frankenstein.

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    5. Re:robocop was somewhat like that by marcello_dl · · Score: 1

      This is the trolling style I prefer. Well done, sire.

      --
      ---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
    6. Re:robocop was somewhat like that by morgauxo · · Score: 1

      What cultural heritage would explain being familiar with Robocop but not Frankenstien?
      I think 'lack of' seems a lot more likely.

    7. Re:robocop was somewhat like that by morgauxo · · Score: 1

      Now.. if they were from some non-western culture and familiar with neither.. that might make sense.

  9. Re:battle helmet by bob_super · · Score: 4, Funny

    You didn't see the old documentary?

    Pain the helmet black and your soldier's reaction to dismemberment becomes either "'tis but a scratch" or "that's just a flesh wound", and he keeps on fighting.

  10. Motivation by SJHillman · · Score: 3, Funny

    You zap me, and sure, I'll be motivated to do whatever the hell you're zapping me to make me do.

    1. Re:Motivation by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      Problem is that my only motivation is to stop you from zapping. That can be accomplished temporarily by doing your bidding or permanently by killing you.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Motivation by mjwx · · Score: 1

      Problem is that my only motivation is to stop you from zapping. That can be accomplished temporarily by doing your bidding or permanently by killing you.

      You would think that, but the zappers on a deadmans switch.

      Now my unwitting minion, about these tasks I have for you.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    3. Re:Motivation by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      So we die together. Fine by me.

      The last order in my life is given by me.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  11. Hook me up by Hecatonchires · · Score: 1

    Dealing with depression, medication, associated side effects and low energy levels, I need some 'push through it'. Where do I sign up? Will it interfere with my brains internet plug, due to be installed in the 2020's?

    --

    Yay me!

    1. Re:Hook me up by jd · · Score: 2

      Why would you want to connect your brain to the Internet? Far too great a risk of an NSA virus.

      What you want to do is place your brain in a networked, Earthquake-proof, fire-proof enclosure, with an Infiniband connection to a Linux server. This would then be linked, via an OpenBSD firewall, to the Internet and also to some sort of ROV that can act as a relay between brain and body.

      Meanwhile, your skull would contain an embedded computer, a massive multiplexer/demultiplexer to link up the nervous system and a very high bandwidth microwave link to the ROV.

      It would reduce bandwidth requirements and latency if the motor neurons remained in the skull, with the rest of the brain transmitting only executive instructions and not specific nerve impulses. Those could be generated more locally. Split brains are found in squid, so we know this kind of isolation is possible. You'd also need a smaller computer, as it would largely be relegated to providing network security, error correction and data compression/decompression. This means you could increase the number of motor neurons, increasing the sophistication of muscle response.

      From the brain-at-home POV, removing motor neurons means reducing distances between the other parts of the brain, reducing response time. (Since microwaves are a fair bit faster than electrochemical chains for transmitting data, latency due to distance is insignificant. You would be limited by signal strength and error correction codes, but the radius would be far beyond typical distances travelled by westerners anyway.)

      Dissecting the brain further, with no executive functions in the skull to contend with, eyes could be larger, giving you higher resolution at the same number of distinguishable colours, or more colours at the same resolution. This would require the optic centres to be cut out of the brain and enlarged accordingly. Unlike those parts dealing with memory, the structure of the visual cortex probably won't vary much. By replacing the synapses with optic fibre, you can reduce latency, reduce errors, increase resilience to aging, reduce space requirements and eliminate tau protein knots. The reduced space means more visual cortex for the same response time, letting you process every scrap of available data rather than wasting it as the brain currently does.

      Much the same applies to hearing and sense of balance. You could probably double your frequency range and your ability to distinguish tilt.

      You may be more restricted in movement, but you would exchange it for superhuman senses and superhuman reflexes.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    2. Re:Hook me up by kermidge · · Score: 1

      jd, you rascal. Some neat engineering there.

      The augmented remote brain - some interesting choices to be had. I wonder to what extent use of one or more expanded senses might have on psyche. One way to find out....

      I've been thinking of the dis-embodied consciousness bit on and off for a while, having first met it in some sci-fi from maybe forty years ago. Lately there's been Dmitry Itskov and his 2045 Initiative. On one hand, I'm fascinated, on another, a bit chilled. Yet, the thought that as we get older and maybe, just maybe, a bit wiser, get a few things figured out, perhaps get a better idea of what one wants to do with his life, his body starts crapping out and it's time to die, seems wasteful, and the possibility to continue, with what one might hope integrity of personality, is very intriguing.

      (I do believe that I've used up my commas for the year. Sorry 'bout that.)

    3. Re:Hook me up by VortexCortex · · Score: 1

      Burn you brighter, live you shorter. I do not recommend over clocking your organic brains. Consider a hardware upgrade instead.

    4. Re:Hook me up by jd · · Score: 1

      Thank you! There are indeed lots of choices, which makes things interesting. How to balance/optimize the internal and external brain fragments could be an interesting problem and may even be the basis of another generation of culture wars.

      Once the consciousness is externalized, then so long as the API and real-time constraints are consistent, you could have multiple physical bodies. You want to go for a drive? Be the person, then become the car. Eliminates any need for mechanical controls (unreliable) and turns the fully networked car into something useful.

      It would be interesting to fully explore the impact on the mind. Sorry, Matrix and Neuromancer - excellent fiction though they were - really didn't scratch the surface. However, to say my writing varies is like saying gravity isn't uniform. I can usually manage a decent-sized chapter before fading, but I would need help getting out either a book on the general theory of mind or a story based on such a concept.

      P.S. This box contains infinite commas. Be warned, they are freshly baked and may stick to each other. []

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    5. Re:Hook me up by kermidge · · Score: 1

      And you're entirely welcome; the pleasure was mine.

      "However, to say my writing varies is like saying gravity isn't uniform." Got the first good laugh of the day, thank you. No worries, you manage fine.

      There seem to be two possibly diverging paths - one to cyber (mind in constructs), one to nano-stuff in a physical organic body. I can see uses for both, and possibilities for mixed-mode as well. Sci-fi has done both, and I like the story-telling along with the mind-stretch.

  12. Impossible! by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Everyone knows that 'willpower' is an intangible substance that some people possess more of, because they are better, and other people lack, because they are bad. I don't want to hear any more of this materialist nonsense. The rest of the universe may be causal; but human behavior isn't, because something!

    1. Re:Impossible! by anethema · · Score: 1

      I'd rather have willpower.

      Those who do well in school and life, are not the most intelligent, but the ones with the most willpower to see things through.

      Something I've never had the most of unfortunately :(

      --


      It's easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
    2. Re:Impossible! by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 1

      Nice. But I'll really believe you when you say something unpopular, like that intelligence is strongly heritable and all the consequences of that, for example.

      Not that I'm a materialist, in the end ... sure, a love letter "is" just paper and ink, but that's the least interesting thing about it.

    3. Re:Impossible! by marcello_dl · · Score: 1

      If you think human behavior is not intangibly arcane, you haven't frequented enough women. Given that this is slashdot, there is no need for further elaboration.

      Scientists can zap synapses to make this intangibly arcane stuff more or less variated, so what?

      --
      ---- MISSING MISCELLANEOUS DATA SEGMENT --- [sigdash] trolololol
  13. Better living... by jbmartin6 · · Score: 1

    through electricity! Eventually we will all have brain implants to jolt us out of unproductive or rebellious mental states. Software by Microsoft.

    --
    This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
    1. Re:Better living... by jd · · Score: 1

      Microsoft don't write any SCADA control applications, do they?

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    2. Re:Better living... by jbmartin6 · · Score: 1

      Brings a whole new dimension to Stuxnet

      --
      This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
  14. Paging Mr Wales by Gothmolly · · Score: 1

    "Endeavor to persevere".

    --
    I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
  15. Re: Scientists Boost the "Will To Persevere" With by MobSwatter · · Score: 2

    That's so wonderful, is there anything else we can do to enhance incoherent thought process?

  16. Could turn our lives into a dystopia... by Camembert · · Score: 4, Interesting

    While scientifically interesting, I can imagine a dystopian future where employers mandate their works to wear special "brain helmets" so that they are fully focused on the task at hand...

    1. Re:Could turn our lives into a dystopia... by jd · · Score: 2

      Been there, done that. Beanies are completely ineffective at helping concentration. Yours or anyone else's.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    2. Re:Could turn our lives into a dystopia... by wren337 · · Score: 1
      Or, more likely, soldiers. Imagine all of your troops experiencing this at once just before battle.

      Current to the anterior midcingulate cortex gave both patients an increased heart rate, physical sensation in the chest or neck, and “anticipation of challenge coupled with strong motivation to overcome it”

    3. Re:Could turn our lives into a dystopia... by hawkfish · · Score: 1

      While scientifically interesting, I can imagine a dystopian future where employers mandate their works to wear special "brain helmets" so that they are fully focused on the task at hand...

      Sounds like one of the creepiest books I have ever read: Vernor Vinge, A Deepness in the Sky .

      --
      You will not drink with us, but you would taste our steel? - Walter Matthau, The Pirates
  17. Or not... by CapOblivious2010 · · Score: 1

    I stuck my finger in an electric outlet once, and my will to persevere in sticking my finger in there was reduced, not boosted.

    1. Re:Or not... by jd · · Score: 1

      It was an incompatible finger protocol. You have to upgrade your hand and try again.

      --
      It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
    2. Re:Or not... by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

      I stuck my finger in an electric outlet once, and my will to persevere in sticking my finger in there was reduced, not boosted.

      You must have really, really small fingers.

  18. Re:Better living...Indefinitely? by turning+in+circles · · Score: 1

    So the family of the terminally ill patient could in theory not only force feed the patient, they could also zap his brain to give him the "will to persevere"? Sign me up for hospice right now; I'm calling my lawyer to amend my living will and medical directives to keep that particular treat far away from me.

    --
    Might as well face it I'm addicted to data.
  19. Not such a big deal by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    "Stanford scientists say they could help boost people's motivation to overcome difficulties by electrically stimulating the anterior midcingulate cortex in the brain.

    You want motivation? I knew a guy who took two hits of crystal meth and a pint of schapps and was able to overcome a solid wall with his forehead.

    It probably didn't do much for his anterior midcingulate cortex, though.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
    1. Re:Not such a big deal by BullInChina · · Score: 1

      You want motivation? Show me some poontang and i'll show you a motivated marine.

  20. Age old battle by antifoidulus · · Score: 1

    So in the future my "Will To Persevere" could potentially dwarf my "Will To Say 'Fuck it' and Get a Beer"? I find that hard to believe...

    --
    Monstar L
  21. literal burnout! by jblues · · Score: 1

    Staff not performing to capacity? Burn them out (literally) with our new patented high-current implants!

    --
    If it acquires resources on instantiation like a duck, then its a shared_ptr<Duck>
  22. How long till.. by Mr+Z · · Score: 1

    How long till we get something like the Happy Helmet? (Albeit for perseverance, not happy happy joy joy.)

    --
    Program Intellivision!
  23. Re:I could use some of that by Sardaukar86 · · Score: 1

    Maybe I'll take up alcoholism, for the holidays.

    I can't speak highly enough of alcoholism, myself. It's the only thing that has kept me anaesthetised against the will-to-live-destroying arrogance and stupidity* of the human race.

    Still, only another thirty years to go and I can wave this shithole goodbye forever!

    * I don't think I'm smarter than the average person, just smart enough to observe our species' behaviour.. and despair.

    --
    ..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
  24. This submission by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This submission is electrifying the human spirit!

  25. Re:battle helmet by mjwx · · Score: 1

    You didn't see the old documentary?

    Pain the helmet black and your soldier's reaction to dismemberment becomes either "'tis but a scratch" or "that's just a flesh wound", and he keeps on fighting.

    for some strange reason the article made me think of Ludwig Van.

    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  26. One bourbon, one scotch, one beer by WinstonWolfIT · · Score: 1

    Alcohol-fueled courage is best courage.

  27. Re:I could use some of that by kermidge · · Score: 2

    Thirty years and hitting the sauce, not the best of odds, but hey, go for it. (I was lucky, back mid-Eighties after twenty years of hard drinking; about the only thing that hadn't been adversely affected was my liver. Go figure.)

    "I don't think I'm smarter than the average person, just smart enough to observe our species' behaviour.. and despair." If you can provide for your physical needs, then it's just an uncomfortable state of mind. If your situation is worse, then it gets really annoying, trending to flat-out bad, going by personal experience.

    Like many a tool, if what these guys have found gets used, some of the uses will be ungood. But for someone caught up in a situation that by most lights just needs for them to apply a little extra oomph, might be a good thing - with consent, of course.

  28. Re:Sounds perfect for high risk suicide patients by lightknight · · Score: 1

    Have they tried chocolate? I cannot imagine even a suicidal person turning down a good piece of chocolate before they go...with the emphasis being on 'good' as opposed to popular or chic.

    --
    I am John Hurt.
  29. Re:Sounds perfect for high risk suicide patients by lightknight · · Score: 1

    And when they finish one, offer them another piece. Then another. Sooner or later, the chocolate will kick in, and drive them out of their funk.

    --
    I am John Hurt.
  30. My head is empty. by antdude · · Score: 1

    I need a brain to do this. :(

    --
    Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
  31. Maybe this doesn't prove anything. by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

    From the article, we have two individuals with obviously abnormal brain function (uncontrolled seizures) that when an electrical charge is introduced in a specific area, it causes them to increase their perseverance (which is somewhat subjective in its measure). Extrapolating those results to a normally functioning brain seems somewhat of a leap. While the research is interesting, it doesn't really prove anything because of the extremely small sample sized, no control group and abnormal brain function to begin with.

  32. Re:I thank them for their bravery and all they gav by Dcnjoe60 · · Score: 1

    I have cerebral palsy and epilepsy and there description is the before and after of how it feels for me with seizures. Just like some of Hollywood's special effects especially from the 80's on. Some of us were tortured and bled, so other children who couldn't walk now can. Then the technology evolves and other people only see it as mere enjoyment. We'll I commend them for their bravery and what they have given up. Just to help improve the human condition and maybe 1 day a child will not have suffer from cp or seizures. But you who make jokes will probably think I'm a jerk or worse and then go out and buy a mind controlled video game for your enjoyment. I'm glad to see there a few people left who will sacrifice there we'll being at a chance to cure themselves and others

    The sad reality is that if this research truly is valid, it is more likely to be used for mind controlled video games than curing people. In a capitalist society, even one with a for profit health care system like the US (where corporations make big money from people being sick), there is far more profit to be had from the next generation xbox than the limited pool of suffers with conditions like yours. More likely than either a consumer product or a medical treatment, however, will be a militarized application.

  33. Gotta love N=2 results... by rgbatduke · · Score: 1

    ...otherwise known as "anecdotal reports", not science.

    Especially when the "result" being reported is a subjective experience described verbally by the two subjects to researchers looking for the result. What could go wrong?

    rgb

    --
    Even when the experts all agree, they may well be mistaken. --- Bertrand Russell.
  34. Where does one draw the line? by X-Ray+Artist · · Score: 1

    "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results." - widely attributed to Albert Einstein.

    When does persistence become insanity?

    --
    I would have a sig but I am too busy updating programs and restarting my computer
  35. Re:Sounds perfect for high risk suicide patients by oldmac31310 · · Score: 1

    no he is not.

    --
    http://www.acetonestudio.com
  36. Re:I could use some of that by Sardaukar86 · · Score: 1

    Thirty years and hitting the sauce, not the best of odds, but hey, go for it. (I was lucky, back mid-Eighties after twenty years of hard drinking; about the only thing that hadn't been adversely affected was my liver. Go figure.)

    I've actually heard that before, quite surprising. Of course, I've also heard the other side.. with the stabbing pains and the doctors warning "drink again and its curtains for you buddy".

    If you can provide for your physical needs, then it's just an uncomfortable state of mind. If your situation is worse, then it gets really annoying, trending to flat-out bad, going by personal experience.

    Like many a tool, if what these guys have found gets used, some of the uses will be ungood. But for someone caught up in a situation that by most lights just needs for them to apply a little extra oomph, might be a good thing - with consent, of course.

    Wise words for sure. Personally I'm all for (voluntary) wire-heading. If a wee current applied judiciously can assist in some cases the next logical step would be a small device to monitor and manage the 'dosage' and at that point it's probably ready to be of use for the public. We've done pretty well with the SSRI/SNRI series of drugs but it would be nice to have another way of approaching mental health problems and especially if it has the potential to have lesser or no side-effects.

    --
    ..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
  37. Re:Sounds perfect for high risk suicide patients by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

    Lighten up, Francis.

    You sound like a douche.

    --
    There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
  38. Re:Sounds perfect for high risk suicide patients by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

    no he, is not.

    FTFY

    --
    There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
  39. Re:Sounds perfect for high risk suicide patients by Dogtanian · · Score: 1

    What if it just makes them persevere at attempting suicide?

    I'm not entirely sure how (if at all) tongue in cheek this was, but I do recall hearing that starting anti-depressants can *increase* the risk of suicide. This is supposedly because one of the first symptoms of depression to improve (before the suicidal feelings have cleared up) is the loss of motivation- and ironically, it was that lack of motivation that was stopping them from carrying out the suicide.

    Typical result from a quick Googling to confirm my memory:-

    Doctors admit there is always a risk of suicide when treating a severely depressed patient.As patients start to feel better, energy and motivation sometimes return before the suicidal thinking has faded.

    "You get patients who are too depressed to commit suicide," says Dr. David Fassler, a trustee of the American Psychiatric Association who is testifying about the antidepressant safety at the FDA hearing."Patients start treatment and then they feel just better enough to go through with it."

    --
    "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
  40. Re:Sounds perfect for high risk suicide patients by sexconker · · Score: 1

    "Not to be confused with you, who are a nihilistic insensitive piece of shit who cannot
    even punctuate a simple sentence correctly."

    You are missing a comma there, after 'shit'.

    No he isn't. And your comma is incorrect.

    WRONG:
    You are missing a comma there, after 'shit'.

    CORRECT
    You are missing a comma there - after 'shit'.

    CORRECT
    You are missing a comma there (after 'shit').

    I also find your use of single quotation marks (') disturbing. You should be using double quotation marks (").

  41. Re:I could use some of that by Jmc23 · · Score: 1

    * I don't think I'm smarter than the average person, just smart enough to observe our species' behaviour.. and despair.

    Nobody else thinks you are either.

    Less intelligent people only see problems while more intelligent people see the solutions. Your despair is due to your inability to find your contribution to the solution. Perhaps you should focus on that.

    --
    Don't complain about syntax, grammar, or spelling. There is no.hell like input on android.
  42. Re:I could use some of that by kermidge · · Score: 1

    I agree with your assessment. For me, the kicker, and greatest criterion, is the welfare and health of the patient above and before all else. Too much these days (again, from personal experience, in addition to what I've seen with others and have read) is influenced over-much by admin rules, liability risk assessment driving those policies, and Medicare restrictions (as a for instance, if I had the money I would be prescribed situational and likely sleep supplemental oxygen given that most of my SpO2 is below 95 and upon waking is often below 90. Medicare won't touch you until your readings are below 88 or 89 depending on one's case. All the literature (NIH, Mayo, NHS, etc.) all either suggest or outright state that there are systemic effects of debilitation that start below 93-95, as well as bad effects to vision and heart (I'm also high-risk for ischemic events.) In hospital, when they see 93 then you're put on oxygen stat, especially post-op. Welcome to the modern world of health care.)

    If various well-researched and proven electrical stimulation works, it'd be a boon, if for no other reason than to be able to avoid the inescapable side effects of medicaments. Even if those side effects are mild they're still there and still put some kind of strain on the system. What we don't yet know, from what I've read, is what if any side effects are observed with the elec-stim.

  43. Re:I could use some of that by Sardaukar86 · · Score: 1

    Nobody else thinks you are either.

    Whoa, I wasn't aware I was speaking to a representative of the entire human race. The honour is all mine!

    Less intelligent people only see problems while more intelligent people see the solutions.

    Rubbish. Less intelligent people don't bother themselves with problems or solutions because thinking is work and it's much easier to just shovel chips into one's mouth in front of Faux News.

    Your despair is due to your inability to find your contribution to the solution. Perhaps you should focus on that.

    Thanks for the armchair psychological assessment. I suggest you dial back on the conviction with which you write, especially if you're going to post unfounded rubbish like this.

    --
    ..Mullah or Pope, Preacher or Poet, who was it wrote: "Give any one species too much rope and they'll fuck it up"?
  44. Ancient Indian Texts by schogini7638 · · Score: 1

    We have three states as defined in Indian ancient texts. Shristi: creative state Shithi: preserving state Samharam: destructive state In order to live "well" a proper balance is required. Practice of Yoga (along with breathing techniques and meditations) helps one to maintain the balance. Glad to see scientists getting closer to these areas. Hope this will not lead to artificially adjusted, terribly imbalanced anti-social agents.

  45. Re:Sounds perfect for high risk suicide patients by LifesABeach · · Score: 1

    Chocolate's good. I wonder what I could tell the doctor to get that kind of therapy?