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How China Will Get To the Moon Before a Google Lunar XPrize Winner

An anonymous reader writes in with this link about the advances in China's lunar program. "A $30 million Google-backed competition to land a spacecraft on the moon may be about to be scooped. China's Chang'e 3 probe successfully put itself into lunar orbit on Friday in preparation for an attempted touchdown around Dec. 14. China won't be winning the prize money, which is reserved for privately funded, previously enrolled teams, not government agencies."

32 of 173 comments (clear)

  1. One small post for man by Boronx · · Score: 2, Insightful

    One giant leap for mankind.

    1. Re:One small post for man by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      One giant leap for mankind.

      This.

      I live in America. I like its culture. I like its people. I'd like to see it propagate offworld. But if my tribe is no longer interested in taking the high ground, I'd rather see my species - be it 50, 500, or 5000 years from now - speaking some variation of Mandarin than not living offworld at all.

      My tribe's ancestors went there in peace for all mankind. Good luck, Chinese dudes.

    2. Re: One small post for man by iamhassi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Considering the number of chinese that learn English in school compared to English speaking children that learn chinese, I have a feeling we will all be speaking a hybrid version of English and Chinese in hundreds of years. English isn't going anywhere, not when billions of chinese are all taught English from ages 4 thru 18.

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    3. Re: One small post for man by dgatwood · · Score: 4, Funny

      Considering the number of chinese that learn English in school compared to English speaking children that learn chinese, I have a feeling we will all be speaking a hybrid version of English and Chinese in hundreds of years. English isn't going anywhere, not when billions of chinese are all taught English from ages 4 thru 18.

      So what you're saying is that Firefly got it right?

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    4. Re:One small post for man by danlip · · Score: 2

      the chinese space program is about four decades behind the US one.

      4 decades ago the US landed a man on the moon. They couldn't do that today - heck we couldn't even get a man into low earth orbit today. So being 4 decades behind the US space program doesn't sound like a bad thing.

  2. Well really.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    "which is reserved for privately funded, previously enrolled teams, not government agencies"

    doesn't that make this article completely irrelevant?

    1. Re:Well really.. by rioki · · Score: 2

      It does actually not. The summary does not mention this, but AFAIK the X-Prize has the clause "before any national space agency" (except NASA and the Russian obviously). If China succeeds they need to either renegotiate the prize or void it, since the original terms will make it obsolete.

    2. Re:Well really.. by rioki · · Score: 4, Informative

      I stand corrected, the clause was already dropped:

      A recent update in the teams’ legal agreement with the X Prize Foundation removed a $5 million penalty if a government entity got to the surface of the moon first.

    3. Re:Well really.. by savuporo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because everyone of the "new space" followers was high at the SpaceShipOne X-Prize victory at the time and they all believed space is much easier than government has made it out to be. So they thought putting a lunar lander together takes a blog, two guys in a garage, github and attending a summit - they will all have Chinese beat by years.

      Apparently, it doesnt quite work that way - and Branson is still waiting for his rocket to take him on his worlds highest rollercoaster.

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    4. Re:Well really.. by AC-x · · Score: 4, Funny

      . So they thought putting a lunar lander together takes a blog, two guys in a garage, github and attending a summit - they will all have Chinese beat by years.

      No wonder they failed, they forgot to make a kickstarter page :)

    5. Re:Well really.. by Shadowmist · · Score: 3, Informative

      The Russians sent a sample return mission in 1970. Luna 16.

      More importantly, the Russians who had ample reason to do so... have never challenged the Apollo accomplishment.

  3. China scooped by the Soviet Union by erice · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you are going to include government probes than China was itself scooped by the Soviet Union's Lunokhod_1 rover more than 40 years ago.

  4. missing the point by stenvar · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The point of the X-Prize is to show that private space exploration is possible, i.e., that the costs have come down enough so that it makes sense for businesses to start engaging in space exploration, or that it has become cheap enough so that people can do it for fun.

    The ability of space exploration by tax-payer funded government entities doesn't need to be established, it was established half a century ago. Communist nations tend to be even better at doing such things in the short run because they can redirect money more easily to such projects even if they don't make sense.

    1. Re:missing the point by savuporo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Hmm. Apparently capitalist governments are even more effective at sinking funds into projects like that, because its widely recognized that US beat the Soviets in the early space race.

      Of course, for some inexplicable reason US didnt respond to Soviet challenge by leveraging the power of free markets, private industry and entrepreneurial spirit. They decided to beat massive Soviet state run design bureaus backed by their military industry complex by establishing their own massive state run design bureau backed by their military industrial complex. They even bagged members of the same team of germans as their design leads !

      Funnily enough, Russians are now launching the lions share of commercial space payloads, whereas the recent SpaceX Falcon 9 first comsat launch was the first in years for US.

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    2. Re:missing the point by stenvar · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Hmm. Apparently capitalist governments are even more effective at sinking funds into projects like that

      Yes, because they end up having more money to spend.

      Of course, for some inexplicable reason US didnt respond to Soviet challenge by leveraging the power of free markets, private industry and entrepreneurial spirit.

      The US leveraged the power of "free markets, private industry and entrepreneurial spirit" by taxing it.

      Funnily enough, Russians are now launching the lions share of commercial space payloads, whereas the recent SpaceX Falcon 9 first comsat launch was the first in years for US.

      Funnily enough, private industry has little incentive competing with government services, in particular if private industry is heavily regulated. And for anything other than satellite launches, there simply hasn't been much incentive for private investment at all. The Soviet union is, of course, still just living off resources created on the back of peasants and workers during the Soviet era.

      The moon landing may have been a good political stunt, but scientifically and economically, it was a huge waste of money.

    3. Re:missing the point by subreality · · Score: 5, Informative

      its widely recognized that US beat the Soviets in the early space race

      By whom?

      First artificial satellite: Sputnik
      First human in space: Yuri Gagarin
      First human in orbit: Yuri Gagarin (He gets mentioned twice because he achieved this before the US managed even a suborbital flight)
      First lunar flyby: Luna 1
      First impact on the moon: Luna 2
      First spacewalk: Aleksei Leonov
      First soft landing on the moon: Luna 9

      The commitment to boots on the moon led to Gemini turning things around in the mid '60s, but before that the Soviets did quite well, especially with Earth-orbit tech.

    4. Re:missing the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Also first woman in space: Valentina Tereshkova

    5. Re:missing the point by Dodgy+G33za · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Bloody bean counters. It was not a waste of money. Any more than climbing Everest, or the race to the South Pole, or finding the Higgs Boson.

      The space race inspired the current generation of rich people prepared to put funds into private space initiatives.

      We don't want a robot to land on mars. We want a human to tell us how it feels to stand on an alien planet and try to spot the Earth in the nights sky.

      You want to look at a waste of money? Look at how much Coca Cola spend to try to make you buy their flavour rather than the oppositions. Now that is a REAL waste.

    6. Re:missing the point by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Also:

      Venera 3, first manmade object to impact another planet's surface.
      Venera 4, first spacecraft to measure the atmosphere of another planet.
      Venera 7, first spacecraft to successfully land on another planet.

    7. Re:missing the point by khallow · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Lunokhod represented a way of doing the same amount of scientific work the Apollo missions did with less risk and at a fraction of the price.

      It didn't. The scientific output of Apollo was quite remarkable. And there's two simple reasons why. First, they had the best machines of the day, people (which incidentally are still the best machines of the day) gathering samples and running experiments on the surface.

      And second, they returned 380 kg of lunar material to be studied for the past few decades. Do you really think a 60s vintage lunar rover is going to get better data on lunar material on location than generations of Earth-based scientists do with a sample return?

    8. Re:missing the point by Savage-Rabbit · · Score: 2

      Lunokhod represented a way of doing the same amount of scientific work the Apollo missions did with less risk and at a fraction of the price.

      It didn't. The scientific output of Apollo was quite remarkable. And there's two simple reasons why. First, they had the best machines of the day, people (which incidentally are still the best machines of the day) gathering samples and running experiments on the surface.

      And second, they returned 380 kg of lunar material to be studied for the past few decades. Do you really think a 60s vintage lunar rover is going to get better data on lunar material on location than generations of Earth-based scientists do with a sample return?

      No I don't but then that's not what I was trying to point out. I said the Soviets did a whole lot of invaluable pioneer work in the field of unmanned space probes and that Lunokhod pointed the way to the future. Or do you really think thtat the future of deep space exporation is in grandiose Apollo program like manned missions to remote corners of the solar system? What has been the focus of space exploration since Apollo? Wait... let me think... Oh yes it's been unmanned probes, even NASA acknowledges that. It will _always_ be more cost effective to send robot probes and that includes sample return missions. That writing has been on the wall since Apollo and it has only become more true as we have gotten better at AI and robotics.

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    9. Re:missing the point by Vintermann · · Score: 3, Interesting

      First lunar flyby: Luna 1

      The impressiveness of this feat is only slightly tainted by the fact that it wasn't supposed to be a flyby. They missed.

      All us KSP fans can relate to that, I'm sure...

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    10. Re:missing the point by savuporo · · Score: 2

      Any everest climber pays for it with his own money, or by his direct sponsors that support his cause. South Pole the same. Higgs Boson and LHC are scientific endeavours, greatly contributing to science and our understanding of the word.

      Apollo was "our germans are better than your germans" and "we can build a bigger ICBM than you" pissing contest - and effectively bankrupted further space development on both sides. As has been said elsewhere in this thread - Lunokhods and Luna landers, and Surveyors were much much more reasonable use of the funds. And im not against manned spaceflight per se - i think X-15 was an excellent use of funds too.

      In fact, Apollo can be blamed on the fact that we still dont have O'Neill colonies and a lunar base, because it established the wrong paradigm that was unaffordable from the get go.

      We don't want a robot to land on mars.
      The world's attention on MSL/Curiosity landing and live broadcast on Time's square speaks otherwise.

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  5. Re:Is it wrong by savuporo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yes its wrong. China has lots of scientist and engineers that have put their hard work into this - and they are doing something that nobody has done for decades, and they are doing it better, with more modern and even completely new instruments.

    Why would you want this to fail?

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  6. Re:Is it wrong by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Rooting for a weak home team hoping that the stronger team fails is pathetic.

    The correct attitude is to make the home team better.

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  7. Re:I when wonder... by Rosco+P.+Coltrane · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It will explode from using low quality components.

    Many of the quality product you associate with "american-made" or "european-made" are in fact made in China, part or whole.

    If you still think China churns out shite copies of good products like in the 70s and 80s, you need a reality check. Many, MANY China products are brilliant, quality made and innovative. Granted, many are still shite and copies too, but that's changing fast.

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  8. Re:Is it wrong by TheSeatOfMyPants · · Score: 2

    I largely agree, but the original objective was binary -- "round-trip completed intact" | "round-trip not completed intact" -- and since the US & USSR didn't fail partway through the trip, there isn't a whole lot of room for doing it "better." They might do it more cheaply, complete the round-trip faster, or succeed against the most overwhelming odds, but those are all different issues, IMHO.

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  9. Re:Well yeah by khallow · · Score: 2

    Too bad the US leaned back on the "we're #1, why try harder" position. Just think where we could be by now.

    At some point, they needed to have something in space which generated a return on investment. Apollo didn't do that. And the Shuttle ended up being even worse (for about ten years till 1984, no one in the US could actually launch a payload on a private launch vehicle).

  10. Re: I when wonder... by jones_supa · · Score: 2

    China is an expert in manufacturing in both ends. They can make weak stuff but also extremely professional robust stuff.

  11. Re: I when wonder... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I work in China. Even the Chinese don't believe that their products are any good. Their manufacturing skills are sketchy. Their design skills are weak. Raw materials are sub par. Their key asset is low cost. Not quality.

  12. Re: I when wonder... by Luckyo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It's just like Japan in the 50s and 60s.

  13. You're missing a few by tekrat · · Score: 2

    First Woman in Space : Vanetina Terechkova
    First Manned Space Station : Salyut
    First Lunar Orbit : Luna 10
    First Venus Landing ; Venera 7

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