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Study: People Are Biased Against Creative Thinking

An anonymous reader writes "Despite how much people might say they like creative thinking, they don't, at least according to studies. 'We think of creative people in a heroic manner, and we celebrate them, but the thing we celebrate is the after-effect,' says Barry Staw, a researcher at the University of California–Berkeley business school who specializes in creativity. 'As much as we celebrate independence in Western cultures, there is an awful lot of pressure to conform,' he says."

54 of 377 comments (clear)

  1. The problem: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Creative people just can't shut up and do what they're told.

    1. Re:The problem: by TWiTfan · · Score: 5, Insightful

      People are frightened by what they can't control, can't predict, and don't understand. That's why people invented gods to help explain unpredictable weather and other disasters. It works that way with people too. People want other people to be predictable, controllable, and understandable.

      --
      The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
    2. Re:The problem: by jones_supa · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Also, the hive mind.

      Here is a good philosophical exercise that everyone can do. Think about your values and opinions on various things. Ponder which ones of them are just you repeating what you have been told to think about the particular topic.

    3. Re:The problem: by lightknight · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Granted, but the other problem exists...without creativity, you become a soul-less automaton. Your whole world is a static dying place...dead because no new life is growing in it.

      --
      I am John Hurt.
    4. Re:The problem: by blackbeak · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Monotheism arose contemporaneously with modern civilization as a control framework for large societies. Monotheism encourages homogenous culture, thus discouraging creativity. Prior to that, polytheism, which implicitly implies multiplicity and diversity in all things, was the culture's guide. In a polytheistic culture every man can have his own muse without ridicule, fear or ostracism.

      --
      Everything and its opposite is true. Get used to it.
    5. Re:The problem: by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, what reasons are there to invent Gods?

      The main reason I could come up with is explaining what cannot be explained and thus control what cannot be controlled.

      If you don't know how something works, you might try to find out, but if you can't find out, it scares you. Mostly for the reason that you have no way to control it. You can't say "if I do this, $bad_thing will not happen and/or $good_thing will". There is no "if I don't touch the hot stove I won't get burned" with whether lightning hits your hut or whether the weather finally gets better so your crops will grow enough to feed you the next Winter. And of course our fear of dying. Not only do we not want to die, but we want to have that nice, fuzzy feeling that there's something better coming for us afterwards. Or at least that there is something and that we're important enough that we don't simply cease to exist.

      But the main thing is trying to control what can't be controlled. Because with a God, you can. You can pray. You pray and then God will make the lightning not hit your hut and your crops will grow well. You will not die in that next war and the plague will not kill your family. There is no "worldly" way to do that. And humans are scared of things that are beyond their control. They need something to comfort them. And even if their loved ones die, at least they need to be comforted that they're in some "better place" now.

      That's where gods come in.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    6. Re:The problem: by kilfarsnar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Also, the hive mind.

      Here is a good philosophical exercise that everyone can do. Think about your values and opinions on various things. Ponder which ones of them are just you repeating what you have been told to think about the particular topic.

      That'd be most of them. Most of people's ideas, attitudes and opinions are not their own. They have either been told what to think, or have selected a position from a menu presented to them by some teacher, parent, P.R. firm, news channel, religion, etc. Careful though, most people are likewise unreceptive to that idea. I include myself in this estimation, though I do try to examine my beliefs. It is unavoidable, in a way. It's not easy to transfer knowledge, information or something like values without some form of indoctrination.

      But people come to see the established order, or consensus as iron-clad. They are threatened by the idea that the truth can be fluid, and facts they have known their whole lives could turn out to be wrong. It is unsettling, so they avoid such realizations. We see this dynamic in studies that show how people will retain a belief even in the face of contradicting evidence. They will explain away or discount the new evidence so that they may continue with their belief. It is interesting and sometimes maddening to me. But as I said earlier, I know what I think and why I think it. So when most people disagree with me on some subject, I am not bothered as much.

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    7. Re:The problem: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Granted, but the other problem exists...without creativity, you become a soul-less automaton. Your whole world is a static dying place...dead because no new life is growing in it.

      So, basically you become like people who watch Fox News?

      **ducks**

    8. Re:The problem: by kilfarsnar · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This gets to an interesting dynamic; that people can disagree, or have differing viewpoints and not have one be "wrong". This comes up quite a bit on the topic of religion or the existence of God. Religion is certainly a situation in which people have been told what to think. All of these Christians or Jews or Muslims or Hindus or whatever did not come to their beliefs independently. I very much agree with your point that it is a control structure; they all are. They are more about regimenting behavior and beliefs than anything truly spiritual.

      As to the existence of God, we don't know either way. A god or gods may exist or he/they may not. I personally believe that there exists an entity who created the universe. But I have absolutely no issue with Atheists. My belief is personal, held for personal reasons. I cannot prove the existence of this higher consciousness that I believe in, so why would I expect anyone else to share my belief? It's not about right and wrong, it's about what works for a person in their life. I have become more comfortable with the concepts of "maybe" and "I don't know".

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    9. Re:The problem: by jedidiah · · Score: 2

      It's not a "nerd" answer at all. A nerd will have no problem with the universe being unexplainable and out of control. It's the danes that are frightened by the prospect that the universe is a dangerous and hostile place.

      A nerd wants a REAL answer, not just some comforting tripe.

      Creation of the comforting tripe is not the domain of nerds.

      Nerds are going to be the first people to realize that the comforting tripe is completely bogus.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    10. Re:The problem: by Grey+Geezer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Also...It sometimes help to remember that half of us have below average intelligence. It follows then that some of us are incapable of objective reasoning. Many of us who are capable of rational thought are just plain intellectually lazy. And many of us who are intellectually challenged put a lot of effort into trying to figure things out. It is a complicated issue.

      --
      The USA is only 4X older than me...perspective
    11. Re:The problem: by stranger_to_himself · · Score: 3, Funny

      Also...It sometimes help to remember that half of us have below average intelligence. It follows then that some of us are incapable of objective reasoning. Many of us who are capable of rational thought are just plain intellectually lazy. And many of us who are intellectually challenged put a lot of effort into trying to figure things out. It is a complicated issue.

      That was just about the most intellectually lazy comment I have ever seen.

      I was going to post a point by point rebuttal....but I couldn't be bothered.

    12. Re:The problem: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      No. Flat-out no. Early Christians ran into a polytheistic society that was just as conformist as anything the church would eventually come up with. It's no exception. I'm willing to wager that if you decided to worship an unrecognized god along with the standard pantheon you would have encountered plenty of ridicule. If your new god gained any traction it might have caused you to be persecuted too. The temples in those societies were economic centers just as the church eventually became an economic center.

      IMHO, conformity and corruption gets into *any* religion whether it's polytheistic or not. That's because most people are conformist and corrupt.

    13. Re:The problem: by kilfarsnar · · Score: 2

      Is is me or are you just "repeating what you have been told to think about the particular topic" by the parent post? Were you going for Funny but accidentally got Insightful?

      It was not the parent post that introduced me to that idea. But I will admit I did not come to it completely on my own. I have come to understand over the past 15 years or so that the world does not work the way I was taught it did, and that there is more to society, history and current events than I previously understood. It is a work in progress, as it must be. But these realizations have caused me to rethink why I held the beliefs that I did, and have led me to a new understanding of the truth and indeed, reality itself.

      I hold some quite unconventional beliefs and understandings, which most people are unreceptive to. In discussing these things I have come to understand how important perspective and preconception are to people's beliefs; what they consider possible or impossible, likely and unlikely. I have studied advertising, public relations and propaganda to better understand the methods and mechanisms of influencing the public mind. And I now see just how relative everything is. I try my best to be a free-thinker. But if I am honest I must admit that I have my own biases and preconceptions. Like I said, it's a work in progress.

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    14. Re:The problem: by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Also...It sometimes help to remember that half of us have below average intelligence.

      I'm not sure what this statistical tautology has to do with anything.

      It follows then that some of us are incapable of objective reasoning.

      Are you claiming that anyone of "below average intelligence" is "incapable of objective reasoning"? That's a pretty strong claim. (And weird -- why exactly would the threshold of "objective reasoning" capability fall along some arbitrary statistical dividing line?) And if you're not claiming that, I don't know how it "follows" from the first statement.

      Anyhow... actually, there are a number of studies that have shown that more intelligent people are often the ones with the most rigidity in their beliefs -- particularly when confronted by evidence that conflicts with them. A person of lesser intellect may simply accept new findings from a reputable source or authority, but smart people are significantly better at "explaining away" information that conflicts with their views.

      Many of us who are capable of rational thought are just plain intellectually lazy.

      Laziness probably has much less to do with it than egotism does. A dumb person who encounters something that conflicts with his/her beliefs may simply ignore it or avoid it, and perhaps you might call that "lazy." Smart people are much more likely to find reasons to be dismissive, particularly if they view themselves as superior to others... e.g., among the chosen few "capable of rational thought."

    15. Re:The problem: by cayenne8 · · Score: 2

      And you are a crap parent for telling your children bullshit.

      I suppose you wouldn't advocate "playing Santa" with little kids either...no magic of xmas presents, him knowing if your naughty or nice, etc?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    16. Re:The problem: by sumdumass · · Score: 2

      You realise that it is unscientific to prove or disprove a god right? You simply cannot have a scientific concensus on the matter outside of a god isn't needed to explain the world. If it is more then that, it simply isn't scientific because you cannot test supernatural beings or events.

    17. Re:The problem: by Grey+Geezer · · Score: 2

      Generally, no. Objectivity is largely a function of temperament and deliberate effort rather than intelligence. Studies show

      I don't know...sounds like these studies were poorly designed if that's what they really show. To be sure intelligent people can be bull headed, but less intelligent people can be bull headed AND incapable of being objective. I know people who are simply intellectually incapable of rational argument. Don't you? Lucky duck.

                                            Uninformed voters are more easily swayed with information challenging their beliefs, but people who know and have strong opinions

      I think you may be confusing being wishywashy with having objectivity. I know people who will hold the last opinion presented to them...right up until they are presented with another argument. Some of these people are incapable of evaluating, or forming rational argument. Many of them lack any problem solving skills. While I don't know their IQ, I suspect they are on the low side. Not scientific I know, but I wouldn't be surprised if a scientific study could be designed that would confirm that.

                                          Objectivity takes training and deliberate practice.

      I agree. I simply suggest that it also takes discipline, honesty and an IQ capable of evaluating rational argument. Put another way, the higher the IQ the easier it is to be objective. Not saying everyone takes advantage of their IQ in this regard.

      --
      The USA is only 4X older than me...perspective
    18. Re:The problem: by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      The brain I use to conjure up those ideas is, from a purely physiological view, the same that Mr. Caveman used to dream up his world view. Hence I do actually consider myself able to come to the same kind of conclusion if presented the same facts.

      Totemism and animism are two of the ways humans fill in the gaps in their understanding of the world. That's what we always did since the dawn of our self awareness, I'm convinced. We were asking questions about us, about our place in the universe and the universe itself. We observed. We pondered. And just as we do today when we put up the hypothesis about dark matter and dark energy because there are obviously things happening in the universe that go beyond our understanding and what we consider "real" and "right", so did human back in those days. Of course from a completely different vantage point.

      Just as it makes a lot of sense to us now that there must be something that we cannot detect other than with its gravitational pull, it made a lot of sense to the early human that there are certain supernatural entities that he cannot detect other than by their effects, by the change of the seasons and the way his world affected him. It made sense to him that there was some kind of spirit, god or other otherworldly existence that sent him dreams and caused good and ill. And he tried to understand the motivation behind it, he tried to understand his "god", and even to a certain extend, to control what happens. To appease the gods, spirits or other entities.

      If you ask me, that makes a lot of sense.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  2. Makes Sense by west · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Just like most mutations are unsuccessful, most creative ideas are not "welfare increasing", after all, the status quo came about for a reason and your idea has to be pretty clever to beat it in all, or even most, metrics.

    Of course, on the off chance a creative idea *is* successful, we're all for it, but that's pretty hard to determine in advance. And more importantly, after the fact, all the discomfort from change (and one shouldn't underestimate how much change hurts psychologically) has already been paid for, so we can simply enjoy the benefits.

    1. Re:Makes Sense by m00sh · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Just like most mutations are unsuccessful, most creative ideas are not "welfare increasing", after all, the status quo came about for a reason and your idea has to be pretty clever to beat it in all, or even most, metrics.

      Of course, on the off chance a creative idea *is* successful, we're all for it, but that's pretty hard to determine in advance. And more importantly, after the fact, all the discomfort from change (and one shouldn't underestimate how much change hurts psychologically) has already been paid for, so we can simply enjoy the benefits.

      The status quo doesn't have to come about because it is the best solution to a problem. There are many times when status quo can appear because it was first to the market, or because it was pushed by the giant gorilla of the market etc. Just look at web standards and internet and there are so many status quo ideas that are established not because they are the best but for a variety of different reasons.

      Gene mutations are random whereas creative ideas are directed. Perhaps gene mutations would be comparable to random thoughts in people's heads. Creative ideas are more refined than that.

      I agree that its hard to determine which creative idea is going to be successful and maybe even successful for completely different reasons. I admit than when Twitter first came out, I thought it was a dumb idea. But, there lies the problem. Out society of innovation is based on creative ideas and there are no ways of determining which ideas are great and which are not. As the article suggests, the only way to make your idea take effect is through extreme perseverance and mountains of rejection. I remember reading that JK Rowling had her Harry Potter manuscript rejected over a dozen times.

      If there is an inherent psychological bias against new ideas, then maybe the psychologists should create a procedure in which we can develop new ideas without having the creative idea having to face rejections.

  3. Conservatives Survive by pubwvj · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Makes sense that there is some animosity to creativity.

    Being conservative, doing the same thing that worked for your ancestors, is generally a good way to survive. Thus evolution would select for people who tend to be conservative and stick with the tried and true.

    On the other hand, the guy who makes a pointy stick and sticks said stick in the side of an animal in attempt to kill and eat it providing more food for his family is being creative but if he picks the wrong animal he ends up rather dead. If he wins then he stands a chance of becoming the new tried and true, the new way. But until he proves it the majority of his peers are wise to be a bit hesitant to follow his lead. If he shows a good history of creative successes then adaptable individuals will follow him because that is a good survival strategy.

    1. Re:Conservatives Survive by mysidia · · Score: 2

      On the other hand, the guy who makes a pointy stick and sticks said stick in the side of an animal in attempt to kill and eat it providing more food for his family is being creative but if he picks the wrong animal he ends up rather dead.

      Small, incremental improvements.

      Making the pointy stick is fine, but don't go rushing to animal killing as a complete replacement for berry gathering.

      After all -- what happens if there are no animals, when you need food?

    2. Re:Conservatives Survive by somersault · · Score: 2

      After all -- what happens if there are no animals, when you need food?

      Humans are animals.

      Tasty, tasty animals.

      --
      which is totally what she said
    3. Re:Conservatives Survive by Chrisq · · Score: 2

      Makes sense that there is some animosity to creativity.

      Being conservative, doing the same thing that worked for your ancestors, is generally a good way to survive. Thus evolution would select for people who tend to be conservative and stick with the tried and true.

      On the other hand, the guy who makes a pointy stick and sticks said stick in the side of an animal in attempt to kill and eat it providing more food for his family is being creative but if he picks the wrong animal he ends up rather dead. If he wins then he stands a chance of becoming the new tried and true, the new way. But until he proves it the majority of his peers are wise to be a bit hesitant to follow his lead. If he shows a good history of creative successes then adaptable individuals will follow him because that is a good survival strategy.

      I think you have highlighted the main issue "creative solution = risk", as well as " "creative solution = potential benefit". Where costs and/or risks are high people need to evaluate this rigorously. For example, a novel idea in dealing with nuclear waste might be brilliant, but nobody would want to use it without a rigorous trial (risk and cost is high), but an idea that crisps and tomato ketchup would make a great sandwich filling can just be tried (risk and cost low).

      I can see a potential issue that people who are best suited to performing rigorous proofs of concept and trials are generally not going to be the creative type. This may mean there is a bias not to take the situation seriously (why are we wasting time testing this when we already have something that works reasonably well).

  4. George Bernard Shaw by zm · · Score: 4, Interesting

    The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.

    --
    Sig ?
    1. Re:George Bernard Shaw by TWiTfan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself.

      And the real genius does BOTH.

      --
      The cow says "Moo." The dog says "Woof." The Timothy says "Thanks, valued customer. We appreciate your input."
  5. Well, duh by argStyopa · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Culture and civilization are all great, but doesn't really change the fact that deep down we're social ANIMALS, and probably the greatest evolutionary advantage that we have had was that we could cooperate.

    There's a clear Darwinistic pressure to confirm, so long as there's a little percentage of (expendable) individuals willing to experiment creatively - since for the bulk of history and prehistory, 'creativity' was a great way to get you and others killed.

    --
    -Styopa
  6. Creativity often equates to "Different" by Stolpskott · · Score: 2, Interesting

    For many people/sheeple, they derive comfort from the idea that they are (a) Right, and (b) in the majority (with "right" being determined at the time with incomplete information by who is either in the majority or who shouts loudest).
    Things like the medieval opinion that the world is flat, that women or specific ethnic/indigenous groups are unimportant/inferior, or the Standard Model of particle physics, and even with religion, show that there is great comfort in being in the majority.
    Choosing to go against the majority can be a brave decision to stick up for your principles, or it can simply be a sign of bloody-mindedness with no better reason than a desire to not conform (guess who usually plays the Devil's Advocate in one-sided discussions?)
    In many instances, humans exhibit a profound "herd animal" instinct, where the outsider/outlier is attacked, from children in the playground picking on the smallest or the one who is different because one powerful individual does so, to the people in a meeting rounding on a dissenting voice because their manager does the same. For those people, conforming to another person's idea is an easy thing to do because then it is not necessary to think about the situation and come up with your own opinion, especially if that opinion might align with the one being attacked so that you either have to support that individual and yourself face attack or willingly go against your opinion... better to not think at all and "go with the flow".

    The critical thinker who is appreciated in their own lifetime is typically the one who comes with a blindingly obvious idea which improves things all round, whose idea does not cause the loud shouters to lose prestige or influence because they did not themselves see that idea. Given that most critical thinkers' ideas piss off at least a few people and show them as being wrong, it takes time until those loud people lose their influence (or those people find a way to adopt the new idea without losing face) before the critical thinker's contribution has a real chance of being acknowledged and properly valued.

    1. Re:Creativity often equates to "Different" by GrumpySteen · · Score: 3, Insightful

      For many people/sheeple

      And there's where I stopped reading your comment. If you can't refrain from using childish insults, you don't deserve to be heard.

    2. Re:Creativity often equates to "Different" by Lazere · · Score: 2

      Don't worry, I read the whole thing and now I want my time back. The entire comment is full of crap he either made up on the spot or "read somewhere". The end result is an almost-coherent mess that somehow got modded "interesting".

    3. Re:Creativity often equates to "Different" by Walterk · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Replying instead of moderating..

      Things like the medieval opinion that the world is flat

      They never did think that, it's a modern invention, introduced as late as 1828 after Washington Irving's publication of A History of the Life and Voyages of Christopher Columbus. The ancient Greeks could show that the Earth was round already. In fact, if in the medieval ages they thought that the Earth was flat, why would Columbus (and his contemporaries) even bother sailing west in order to reach India?

      You have some points but please do not perpetuate this myth.

    4. Re:Creativity often equates to "Different" by jfengel · · Score: 2

      And you're going to demonstrate your independence by reiterating a weak pun that's well worn enough to have both a Wikipedia entry (which notes its "shrill and excessive use") and an XKCD already in place?

  7. The kicker... by fruey · · Score: 3, Insightful

    In terms of decision style, most people fall short of the creative ideal unless they are held accountable for their decision-making strategies, they tend to find the easy way out—either by not engaging in very careful thinking or by modeling the choices on the preferences of those who will be evaluating them.

    This is the kicker. Not only do people reject creativity, but they hamper their own responses by conforming to what they think the boss will like. So if you don't agree with your colleague or their interpretation of what the boss will like, you're screwed. What tends to then happen is a breakdown in communication, as you will want to present to the boss directly instead of via the misguided (in your opinion) minion.

    If people stopped trying to predict other people's reactions, they'd be more likely to be themselves. Sadly in the corporate world this means that bosses only get a limited set of responses from anyone not directly below them in the hierarchy. Shame.

    --
    Conversion Rate Optimisation French / English consultant
  8. Problem Exacertbated When "Moral Risk" is Attached by retroworks · · Score: 2

    Good article. Having dealt with it for years, I think it's a little more complex than a general native tendency, however. A large packet of society defers decisions (outsources) to a higher authority. Those authorities demand structure to order the size of the authority delegated to them, and tend to view "outliers" collectively as a threat to that order. The hostility to creativity is particularly intense when the question is "moral authority". In science, the "out of the box" thinker has scientific method and an option or hope to "prove" or "demonstrate" their alternative, creative, view. In religion, a creative morality is considered a threat but it's very difficult to demonstrate credibility with anything other than generations of experience (I did X, which the Priestatollah said not to, and no hair on my palms etc).

    Where science is vulnerable is when a morality is attached. I'm not advocating for scientists to be immoral. But certain branches of science (e.g. Environmental) are susceptible to moral authority, which makes them more susceptible to Priestatollahs opposing creative thinking.

    --
    Gently reply
  9. As a creative thinker... by Vitriol+Angst · · Score: 5, Funny

    ... I can attest to this bias against me, likely the cause of mega jealousy!

    Non-Creative; "What do you make of this report?"

    Me; "Well I can make a hat, an airplane or a little swan..."

    --
    >>"ad space available -- low rates!!!"
  10. Re:No wonder by Lumpy · · Score: 2

    Stand a little closer to the edge so us creative people can just give you a little push into the chasm of doom and get you off the resources we can turn into something wonderful.

    My favorite pastime as I get older is throwing people who don't like change under the bus.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  11. Re:BZZZZT! Article Suspect! by somersault · · Score: 4, Insightful

    To be fair, he introduced a lot of innovation into the mainstream, even if the ideas already existed beforehand.

    The problem is that technically innovative people often aren't talented or even interested when it comes to marketing or interface design. Steve was good at bringing new ideas to market in a way that people found attractive and easy to use, and thus the ideas became mainstream.

    As I usually say in reply to comments like this: I don't want an iPhone, but I'm glad they exist.

    --
    which is totally what she said
  12. Pressure to conform? by gfxguy · · Score: 2

    That's because most people non-conforming are just doing something really dumb to be, you know, non-conforming. I admit I fall into that category of people who don't appreciate people acting like idiots so they can be "non-conforming," and I'm not going to "celebrate their diversity." On the other hand, people truly thinking outside the box, and trying new things creatively, are always tops on my list - even when it doesn't necessarily lead to something beneficial... but then they are like 0.00001% of those "non-conformists."

    --
    Stupid sexy Flanders.
    1. Re:Pressure to conform? by Culture20 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The best is when the non-conformists non-conform in strongly defined ways and view "conformists" with disdain.

  13. Re:BZZZZT! Article Suspect! by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 5, Informative

    The mention of Steve Jobs as an "innovator" makes the article suspect. E.G. the author does not know what she is talking about.

    It's arguably worse than that: Jobs (and Apple generally) don't really do 'innovative', in the sense that nearly everything they produced had some sort of less-well-refined immediate antecedent elsewhere, or was purchased, or or the like. However, Jobs is quite notable indeed for his willingness to take successful products out and shoot them in order to make room for something new(even when the new thing is still not a safe bet in competition with the older; but cheaper, widely adopted, and widely accepted thing), to tell people who demand backwards-compatible whatever where they can file their futile protests, and other behaviors that, while not innovative in themselves, are more or less required to take an innovation from 'tech demo' to 'product' in a reasonable amount of time. On the other hand, of course, his enthusiasm for ruthless focus would likely have been a very poor fit indeed for a 'blue skies' R&D operation(and indeed, stodgy old Microsoft is the company that has one of those, and seems to carefully avoid applying what it comes up with to anything they actually sell...)

    If you want to look at 'innovation' in an institutional context, he isn't a good example of it; but characters like him are clearly relevant to how the broader institutional context interacts with 'creative' or 'innovative' people.

  14. Two parametres by joe_frisch · · Score: 4, Insightful

    An idea can be judged on "creativity" and "practicality". A creative practical idea is a wonderful thing, but its also quite rare. Fairly often people use "creativity" to excuse not considering practical issues. Flying cars, stratospheric power generation kites, vacuum tube trains, etc. are all "creative" but are not currently practical. Some people, including me, get irritated when someone claiming to be creative effectively says: "here is my design for a flying car - just a few engineering details to work out", when in fact it is the engineering "details" that have prevented practical flying cars for the last 50 years.

    1. Re:Two parametres by joe_frisch · · Score: 2

      There is a good engineering reason not to. Small aircraft performance is very sensitive to weight, a typical small airplane will only have a non-fuel payload of around 1/4of the total weight. The added weight to make the aircraft also function as a car (removable / pivot-able wings, road worthy tires, bumpers, transmission, etc) will rapidly cut into that weight and reduce the overall efficiency.

      At the same time modern consumers have become accustomed to very well optimized car designs, the added weight / drag of the folded wings etc will reduce the automotive performance to a point where it is not competitive. There are also significant differences in the optimization of automotive and aircraft piston engines.

      Then there are operational issues: Aircraft require a thorough pre-flight before operation, so there is a significant delay at the airport, aircraft are almost never a time saver for trips of less than an hour driving. Most modestly priced (1M$) aircraft have limited weather capability and have nothing like the reliability of cars for transportation.

      The real killer though is that (at least in the US), most small aircraft pilots will drive to their home airport, transfer their luggage to their plane, fly to the destination and rent a car. Rental cars are generally delivered right to your aircraft when you park for a small fee. In this way the airplane is optimized for flying and for a similar price as much better performance than the hybrids.

      There may be a few special purpose cases were a flying car will work, but with present day technology they are very rare. This is supported by the existence of roadable airplanes since the 50's, but none have seen significant production. The "flying cars" that do not have wings are not practical - not that none of them have actually flown, the pictures are just CGI. The power to weigh requirements are not possible with today's technology.

  15. People are against Change, not Creativity by Tora · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The article is close, but just barely misses the mark.

    People don't mind creativity on its surface, but what they dislike is the change that inevitably comes from it. People resist change, for all the reasons outlined in the article. People like things to stay the same, not change. And creativity drives change.

    --
    tora
  16. I am proudly biased against creative thinking by SirGarlon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    TFA is basically a "creative" type whining about her kind not being appreciated for their brilliance. For example:

    A close friend of mine works for a tech startup. She is an intensely creative and intelligent person who falls on the risk-taker side of the spectrum. Though her company initially hired her for her problem-solving skills, she is regularly unable to fix actual problems because nobody will listen to her ideas. "I even say, 'I'll do the work. Just give me the go ahead and I'll do it myself,' " she says. "But they won't, and so the system stays less efficient."

    If _nobody_ is listening to her ideas, let's run down the possibilities of why not:

    1. 1. Her ideas are crap and she's too sophomoric to know (Dunning-Kroger effect)
    2. 2. She comes across as an abrasive know-it-all, or her communication skills are severely deficient in some other way
    3. 3. A combination of 1 and 2
    4. 4. She is actually an unsung genius, all her colleagues are mendacious dullards, and life isn't faiiiiiir

    If option 4 is correct, then she should start her own company. I suspect 3 is more likely.

    Generally, I consider it more valuable to have someone who is a good listener, a quick learner, and works well with others. If you have an idea about changing the way the company does things, the burden is on you to demonstrate the value of that change. If you can't, then the "creative" idea isn't worth much.

    --
    [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
    1. Re:I am proudly biased against creative thinking by SirGarlon · · Score: 2

      Creative spelling, for example, is not generally accepted by my peers.

      --
      [Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
    2. Re:I am proudly biased against creative thinking by PPH · · Score: 2

      1. Her ideas are crap and she's too sophomoric to know (Dunning-Kroger effect)

      But she has offered to implement her ideas herself. So let her. If she is wrong, her lack of capability will be revealed. However, if she is right, management looks like morons.

      # 2. She comes across as an abrasive know-it-all, or her communication skills are severely deficient in some other way

      That's another way of saying "does not conform". Or "not a team player". Values that are worth less than many give them credit for. Except of course for people who depend on the anonymity of the team to mask their mediocrity.

      then she should start her own company.

      Not a skill set that everyone has. And perhaps she is realistic about it, wanting to work in her area of expertise rather than becoming a jack of all trades, handling all the crap that running a business entails. Perhaps she should go to work for your competitor.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    3. Re:I am proudly biased against creative thinking by PPH · · Score: 2

      But she has offered to implement her ideas herself. So let her.

      Only if you can tell her ideas are unlikely to have unforeseen bad effects, and can be implemented at reasonable cost.

      Who has the burden of demonstrating that? And what is your threshold of 'unlikely' or 'reasonable'? It all comes down to taking calculated risks for an opportunity to improve. And if the people responsible for evaluating the cost/benefit ration have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo, perhaps it is them that need to move on.

      I've never seen a successful business that tolerated middle management just sitting on a process rather than improving it. One must always seek opportunities to clean up, sort, and optimize their assigned task. Not just come to work and do the same crap every day.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    4. Re:I am proudly biased against creative thinking by sydneyfong · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But she has offered to implement her ideas herself. So let her. If she is wrong, her lack of capability will be revealed. However, if she is right, management looks like morons.

      This argument is just lame. When a company pays you a salary, you work for them. So "offering to implement her ideas" is almost like "offering to work during office hours". Worse, it's "offering to do something really risky instead of your assigned task during office hours".

      If she is wrong, of course her lack of capability will be revealed -- but will she be able to fix the mess if it goes wrong? What about the cost of the mistake?

      --
      Don't quote me on this.
    5. Re:I am proudly biased against creative thinking by zildgulf · · Score: 2

      I had dealt with a "creative" person and the problem was her attitude was "you are doing everything wrong, adopt my idea now". In reality we were actually doing things the way we are doing them for a reason. We did adopt some of her ideas after refining them to do what was needed but at a "slow" pace. Anybody that cannot think through a new idea first and then show us why this new idea works better will not be listened to.

  17. Re:People are stupid. by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    50% of people are practically thinking

    I think that's what you meant to say.

    Does this study show bias against creative thinking or bias in favor of thinking that promotes safety, security, comfort.

    I used to think the world was just too stodgy for my brilliance. As I got older, I realized that I just lacked sufficient skill, empathy, finesse. It wasn't their problem, it was mine.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  18. Re:And that's why so many voted for BO by jma05 · · Score: 2

    I don't understand. Are you suggesting that McCain lost because he was a creative thinker?

  19. Thanks, Captain Obvious! by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 2

    Every innovative idea I've ever had at my company has been fought all the way, until it became standard operating procedure (which I now have to fight when I want to change something).

    --
    Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
  20. Re:BZZZZT! Article Suspect! by Deep+Esophagus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Jobs (and Apple generally) don't really do 'innovative', in the sense that nearly everything they produced had some sort of less-well-refined immediate antecedent elsewhere, or was purchased, or or the like.

    When Woz drove the product development, that wasn't the case. The Apple of early Woz era years was wildly innovative. If TFA had said "Steve Wozniak" instead of "Steve Jobs" he could have made his point a lot better -- Despite the fact that his technical brilliance gave Jobs something to sell and grow the business, he didn't really fit in to corporate culture once Apple became the very thing they loathed.