Africa, Clooney, and an Unlikely Space Race

MightyMait writes "There's a plan underway to build a space agency run by African nations, and there is a (non-fictional) George Clooney connection. This BBC article details the history of space exploration in Africa as well as current efforts. Quoting: 'To Western eyes, it may seem rather inappropriate to launch space programs in sub-Saharan Africa, where nearly 70% of the population still lives on less $2 a day. Yet Joseph Akinyede, director of the African Regional Center for Space Science and Technology Education in Nigeria, an education center affiliated with the United Nations Office for Outer Space Affairs, says that the application of space science technology and research to "basic necessities" of life – health, education, energy, food security, environmental management – is critical for the development of the continent.'"

Comments

send Clooney to space

[Anonymous Coward]

Good, it's about time someone did some non-fictional space travel. Might as well be Clooney.

Re:send Clooney to space

[Anonymous Coward]

Gattaca!

Re:send Clooney to space

[Thanshin]

Is there any space travel at all in gattaca?

I vaguely remember many shots of rockets leaving but no space.

And if KSP has taught me anything it's that having a nice and pretty rocket in the first stage doesn't mean in second stage you won't become a large ball of fire an debris.

Re:send Clooney to space

[Anonymous Coward]

Can we send him to the sun?

Re:send Clooney to space

[fuzzyfuzzyfungus]

No actual space travel, just the heartwarming story of how the guy with the life-threatening cardiac defect subverted screening procedures in order to endanger the entire mission, and all his crewmates, on a months-long journey to some other planet in the solar system.

It's a triumph of the human spirit, or something.

Re:send Clooney to space

[Silpher]

In fact KSP teached me more than any documentary about space travel... period.

Re:send Clooney to space

[Thanshin]

I wholeheartedly agree and if I had anything to say on the matter, planting a flag on each planet would become part of the elementary physics curriculum.

Re:send Clooney to space

[TrekkieGod]

No actual space travel, just the heartwarming story of how the guy with the life-threatening cardiac defect subverted screening procedures in order to endanger the entire mission, and all his crewmates, on a months-long journey to some other planet in the solar system. It's a triumph of the human spirit, or something.

That's a misunderstanding of the story. Vincent likely didn't have a heart condition. He got discriminated his entire life because his genetic profile said his DNA indicated he had a 99% probability of developing a fatal heart condition. He could be the 1 person in 100 with that DNA marker who never develops said heart condition, but in their society nobody was willing to give him a chance.

What he did was legitimately endure GATTACA's physical tests, spend an entire childhood swimming out farther and farther away from shore with his brother, and beat his life expectancy of 30.2 years. Everything indicating he had no health problems.

Re:send Clooney to space

[khallow]

Everything indicating he had no health problems.

Or if he actually did have such problems, they weren't going to show up in the next few months. It's also worth noting that a society that hardcore about eugenics and authoritarianism wouldn't be above lying to get more people to genetically tailor their offspring. I wager that blowing past his expected lifespan like that was probably an indication that the prediction was proganda nonsense in the first place.

Personally, I found the story rather bizarre. It's nice that you're genetically perfect. But you won't be after a few months exposure to deep space radiation.

The hero is precisely the sort of person they would send instead of the shiny people. He's healthy enough to serve and not going to get any worse genetically by Gattaca standards. And he'd be far cheaper because of the huge bias against employing such people.

Re:send Clooney to space

[chihowa]

Vincent likely didn't have a heart condition.

I thought the treadmill scene, where his erratic heartbeat plays instead of the 'metronome' and he runs to the locker room clutching his chest, was supposed to show that he actually did have a heart condition.

Human spirit and all, I think the mushroom was right. At the very least, he was living on borrowed time. Not cool.

Re:send Clooney to space

[cayenne8]

Actually, I'm thinking this is just an excuse to set things up for Somali Pirates in Space!!!

Re:send Clooney to space

[TrekkieGod]

I thought the treadmill scene, where his erratic heartbeat plays instead of the 'metronome' and he runs to the locker room clutching his chest, was supposed to show that he actually did have a heart condition.

I interpreted that scene as showing he was exercising beyond his ability. Remember, his "borrowed ladder", Jerome, was a swimming athlete before the accident. Vincent had to make himself not only meet the physical requirements, but also had to look like he had the conditioning of an athlete. So if I figured he always ran far in excess of what he had to, while making it seem like it was easy, using Jerome's recorded heat beats.

I don't think their intended message was that you could heal yourself from heart attacks if you had willpower. The way I interpret that scene wasn't Vincent with a heart condition, it was Vincent exhausted after far exceeding his actual conditioning. It fits with how he approached the swimming competitions with his brother. Save nothing. If he's not collapsing, he's going to keep running.

Re:send Clooney to space

[ultranova]

Personally, I found the story rather bizarre. It's nice that you're genetically perfect. But you won't be after a few months exposure to deep space radiation.

I imagine the idea here is that genetically perfect implies phenotypically perfect. It doesn't do so in real life, of course, even if we ignore the difficulty of defining perfection, since gene expression is affected by your environment - indeed, simply reading this message causes your brain cells to change it. I think the problem is that people hear that genetic code is a set of instructions and think about a book rather than a program (which, in itself, is a suspiciously familiar metaphor - when all you have is a hammer, everything starts looking like the back of someone's head and all that).

Re:send Clooney to space

[chihowa]

The hero is precisely the sort of person they would send instead of the shiny people. He's healthy enough to serve and not going to get any worse genetically by Gattaca standards. And he'd be far cheaper because of the huge bias against employing such people.

I'm not so sure of that. We pick our shiniest people as astronauts and we have relatively few of them. Really, with his myopia and the (putative) heart condition, he would have a hard time making astronaut selection today.

Anyway, the radiation issue was presumably solved in some way. They boarded the ship in pressed suits, so it's clearly not going to be that rough of a ride (although the contacts he's wearing are going to get a little uncomfortable after a few months).

Re:send Clooney to space

[khallow]

which, in itself, is a suspiciously familiar metaphor - when all you have is a hammer, everything starts looking like the back of someone's head and all that

But that was one of the problems with the Gattaca universe. Everything was viewed through the lens of attaining genetic perfection. Going into space and being exposed to DNA-damaging radiation is precisely the sort of thing that this society would be pathologically afraid of.

I think a deeper plot could have explored issues like this - how the leaders of space development want the cream of society to do the work in space, but becoming increasingly thwarted by this growing paranoia. Perhaps older astronauts are shunned because of their loss of genetic perfection and status. Maybe some of the public believes space radiation can be caught from someone exposed to it.

The grand ironies would be yet another demonstration of the profound ignorance of the allegedly superior breed of human and the fact that unmodified humans such as the protagonist would continue to be excellent choices just due to having far less to lose, but are deliberately being screened out by perverse and illogical ideologies from one of the most important jobs that they could be tasked with.

Re:send Clooney to space

[TrekkieGod]

But that was one of the problems with the Gattaca universe. Everything was viewed through the lens of attaining genetic perfection. Going into space and being exposed to DNA-damaging radiation is precisely the sort of thing that this society would be pathologically afraid of.

True, but another aspect of the movie involved the reason for their obsession with genetic perfection. They believed a person's worth could be accurately measured by their genetic makeup, and therefore wouldn't trust somebody like Vincent to be able to complete the mission. He might be cheap in the sense of how much they would have to pay him, but that would be dwarfed by the cost of a failed mission if they send an incompetent person up.

The grand ironies would be yet another demonstration of the profound ignorance of the allegedly superior breed of human and the fact that unmodified humans such as the protagonist would continue to be excellent choices just due to having far less to lose, but are deliberately being screened out by perverse and illogical ideologies from one of the most important jobs that they could be tasked with.

I think the ignorance you're talking about was demonstrated, at least twice. There was an arrogance, a cognitive dissonance in the conversation director Josef had with detective Freeman:

Director Josef: "Bodies, with minds to match. Essential as we push out farther and farther."
Detective Freeman: "Yet, you still constantly monitor performance.
Director Josef: "You have to ensure the people are meeting their potential."
Detective Freeman: "And exceeding it?"
Director Josef: "No one exceeds his potential."
Detective Freeman:"If he did?"
Director Josef: "It would mean we did not accurately gauge his potential in the first place."

Here director Josef admits that it's possible to inaccurately gauge someone's potential. The problem with their society isn't that the genetic tests aren't correct, it's that they can't account for everything. Physically and mentally Jerome was superior to Vincent, and would have made a better Gattaca astronaut. However, Jerome had no motivation, no drive. He couldn't put in the work that's necessary to prepare yourself for the mission. He got his swimming silver medal because he train hard enough, didn't push himself to his limits. And when he realized his genes weren't sufficient to make him the best, he didn't care enough to do the work necessary to improve, instead he chose to try to kill himself. Vincent didn't have the advantages, but he was willing to do what others weren't. Maybe Jerome would have had to put in half as many hours studying as Vincent did, but Vincent wasn't afraid of putting in the time. Jerome would have breezed through the physical training requirements at Gattaca, but Vincent didn't mind pushing himself so hard that he'd collapse in the end. But while their society, and director Josef in particular, admitted that lack of drive was enough to cause a gifted individual to not achieve his full potential, they failed to recognize that an abundance of drive could make up for the lack of genetic advantages in another individual. They refused to test whether they had inaccurately measured someone's potential.

The real irony is that Josef, above all, should understand this. When he was being questioned by the police regarding the murder he proudly explained, "take another look at my profile. You won't find a violent bone in my body." Yet, his drive to ensure the mission he was planning would go ahead was sufficient to overcome that predisposition to non-violence and he was able to commit murder. It shouldn't surprise him that some people, like Vincent, would have the drive to compensate for something they were missing in their genetic profile.

Joseph Akinyede

[Anonymous Coward]

I am Joseph Akinyede, director of the African Regional Center for Space Science and Technology Education in Nigeria.

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Re:Joseph Akinyede

[Anonymous Coward]

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Re:Joseph Akinyede

[Applehu Akbar]

Do I get a timeshare in Cabo as part of the deal?

Agreed with Akinyede

[Anonymous Coward]

When you have tens of millions in abject poverty, a few billions won't change their fate. Better to use it to advance your technological prowess and the spill over from that can eventually help the poor.

Re:Agreed with Akinyede

[Anonymous Coward]

More specifically where it can help is in job creation. Where do you spend those billions? If you import resources and labour it's not going to help you, but if it's all spent at home (and Africa has plenty of resources and labour awaiting training) you're pumping a lot of money into the market while pulling people out of poverty. Those people then have more to spend which means the rest of the economy gets a boost. The problem Africa has had until now is very little investment and what there is (mining etc) tends to be exploiting their resources for the gain of foreign companies, so they haven't seen that happen before. I don't know whether it'll work as well has they hope, but I can certainly follow their reasoning.

Re:Agreed with Akinyede

[Cryacin]

Um... no... See "Broken window fallacy"

Re:Agreed with Akinyede

[Anonymous Coward]

You have just about every large tech company in Africa trying to mine anything they can get, so it isn't like they're an unexplored resource. (or in this case exploited resource). This is what people were complaining about when the US decided to "free Iraq", where were these "freedom fighter" concerns for countries like Africa that are littered with nothing but violence at every level of human depredation, at every corner of the country.

I was interested in space and all that but when you grow op you realize that this money isn't going to do a damn thing to solve the issues on this planet! And it is as if these space agencies have pretty much given up on the planet. Were going to be around for a couple billion years and the race will adapt to whatever is thrown at it. Take care of the shit going on first, then worry about space.

And lets say something does happen (the end) which could be at anytime then this was a waste anyway, they'll be few if anyone left with any knowledge, or skills to keep it going.

Clooney is a fuckin' idiot to begin with, like most of these celebrities they have no talent, they are only around because of there looks, I still get a laugh when they call themselves artists, or how they are changing there "craft", you watch one movie with them in it, and your pretty much going to get the same talentless performances from any other movie there in.

Re:Agreed with Akinyede

[LoRdTAW]

The proposal for building an African space agency sounds too good to be true. Most likely it will go into the pockets of corrupt government officials and contractors who won't get anything done and the project will be scrapped afters years in an artificial limbo.

I would say its better to put the money into getting people fresh water, sewage treatment, waste disposal and training/equipment for sustainable farming. They have to learn to crawl before they can walk.

Re: Agreed with Akinyede

[JWW]

This is not the broken window fallicy. They don't have any windows to break.

It's not like they had functioning rockets and threw them out so they could fix them.

Re: Agreed with Akinyede

[khallow]

But they do have windows to break. Public funding comes from somewhere, either present or (more likely) future taxpayers. Those taxpayers are buying rockets (or more likely, rocket theater) - that's the "broken window", the economic activity that they're forced to fund.

Re:Agreed with Akinyede

[khallow]

And lets say something does happen (the end) which could be at anytime then this was a waste anyway, they'll be few if anyone left with any knowledge, or skills to keep it going.

Unless those people happen to be somewhere else where the bad stuff isn't happening.

Re: Agreed with Akinyede

[JWW]

That's not what the broken window fallacy is about.

Its not about generalized government spending. It about breaking things that are fine to spur on stimulus by spending money to fix the things that were broken.

Re: Agreed with Akinyede

[khallow]

Its not about generalized government spending.

It is when the pretext as in this case is to stimulate an economy.

Re:Agreed with Akinyede

[Anonymous Coward]

You have just about every large tech company in Africa trying to mine anything they can get, so it isn't like they're an unexplored resource. (or in this case exploited resource). This is what people were complaining about when the US decided to "free Iraq", where were these "freedom fighter" concerns for countries like Africa that are littered with nothing but violence at every level of human depredation, at every corner of the country.

I was interested in space and all that but when you grow op you realize that this money isn't going to do a damn thing to solve the issues on this planet! And it is as if these space agencies have pretty much given up on the planet. Were going to be around for a couple billion years and the race will adapt to whatever is thrown at it. Take care of the shit going on first, then worry about space.

And lets say something does happen (the end) which could be at anytime then this was a waste anyway, they'll be few if anyone left with any knowledge, or skills to keep it going.

Clooney is a fuckin' idiot to begin with, like most of these celebrities they have no talent, they are only around because of there looks, I still get a laugh when they call themselves artists, or how they are changing there "craft", you watch one movie with them in it, and your pretty much going to get the same talentless performances from any other movie there in.

Oh goody... the opportunities... where do I start? OK, so here it goes:
1) It seems to me like you are calling Africa a COUNTRY! Sara Palin, is that you?
2) Apparently you think the space race was not worth a damn? What about the advances in material technology and elsewhere that it brought about? What about its contribution to the end of the very same Cold War that in large part fueled it to begin with?
3) If you have no space exploration, how do you expect to get a head start when (or if) good old Earth becomes insufficient to sustain mankind? What organizations like NASA are doing is slowly and gradually sow the seeds of something that we may need for survival a hundred, three hundred or seven thousand years into the future.

Re:Agreed with Akinyede

[Anonymous Coward]

The same argument could be made for just about anything "non-essential" such as Olympic teams, symphonies, museums, etc.. At least a space program has the potential to result in technological advances beneficial to the people. It would almost certainly have a positive effect on "STEM" education.

The thing is, it doesn't have to be a huge investment, at least not on the scale of traditional programs like NASA, ESA, JAXA, etc.. Launch services are getting cheaper, and the range of options is expanding. You don't have to build (or even buy) your own rocket, you can hitch a ride as a secondary payload, not to mention cube-sats and suborbital options. In a few years there will even be multiple options available for AU-funded astronaut flights (SpaceX, Sierra Nevada come to mind).

This is exactly the sort of market that Bob Bigelow wants to serve with his inflatable hab-modules. For a couple-hundred mil$ the AU could send an entire crew to a Bigelow station for a few months of research. Compared to the amount of money that regularly gets grafted or wasted in those economies, this is a bargain.

I have no idea whether any of this will be realized, but I don't think it's an "inappropriate" use of their money. Far from it.

[taiwanjohn: posting as AC to preserve mod points]

Re: Agreed with Akinyede

[MightyYar]

They aren't talking about pissing money away. They are investing in infrastructure that does not yet exist. Infrastructure spending often brings multiple returns on investment. If the US passed a bill to spend a 100 billion dollars repairing bridges and tunnels, it would not be an example of "the broken window fallacy".

Re:Agreed with Akinyede

[TangoMargarine]

Were going to be around for a couple billion years and the race will adapt to whatever is thrown at it.

Two words: Extinction-level Event. Hence why we need to be able to get off the planet. Even assuming that doesn't happen for billions of years (wasn't there that hypothetical big asteroid that killed the dinosaurs? How many billion years ago was that?), you're assuming we won't have comprehensively fucked the environment in the next couple hundred years.

Take care of the shit going on first, then worry about space.

So basically, we're never ever going into space again. Okay then.

Re:Agreed with Akinyede

[Anonymous Coward]

You shouldn't worry about fucking up the environment too much. Humanity will surivive for sure. In the hundreds of millions, most likely, of course, with reduction being caused by famine mostly. People that die off will mostly be the poor, which really can't contribute much to humanity until they're not poor, which requires a lot of energy, which requires fucking up the environment even more. Quite the trap 22.

Seriously. The only way to avert catastrophic (to humanity) ecological change is to figure out how to make poor people not have children. Keep population down in the billion level and humanity can do all it does and worry about the environment a lot fucking less.

About escaping to space... You realize you're not going to do that with billions right? Hundreds. Thousands maybe. It's certainly not going to include much middle class folk or poor people.

Re:Agreed with Akinyede

[TangoMargarine]

You'll have to forgive me if I don't take the survival of the human race as flippantly as you do...

The number that survives an ELE is irrelevant, as long as they are able to form a stable reproductive pool.

Re: Agreed with Akinyede

[Anonymous Coward]

If the US passed a bill to spend a 100 billion dollars repairing bridges and tunnels, it would not be an example of "the broken window fallacy".

No, it would be yet another example of Obama giving handouts to his union buddies.

Re:Agreed with Akinyede

[Anonymous Coward]

figure out how to make poor people not have children.

There are two strains of solutions that have been developed.
1) Capitalist solution - wealthy societies produce fewer children so encourage wealth creation and the population growth rate slows dramatically all by itself
2) Liberal solution - kill people, promote abortion (especially amongst non-whites), promote homosexuality, sterilize people (well, poor people anyway)

Keep population down in the billion level and humanity can do all it does and worry about the environment a lot fucking less.

Your hysteria about the environment and desire to reduce the population by 85% suggests you ideologically prefer solution 2). Another potential homicidal tyrant identified.

Re:Agreed with Akinyede

[Lord Apathy]

I would say its better to put the money into getting people fresh water, sewage treatment, waste disposal and training/equipment for sustainable farming. They have to learn to crawl before they can walk.

I've been saying that for years. Instead of spending limited resources on pie in the sky programs that never go anywhere, the money should be spent on projects that will have a long term benefit. But for some reason people think that every village must have a space program and every mud hut must have 100 jiggabit internet.

What africa needs is serous cultural and political reform. The leaders need to realize they are responsible for the people. An the common people need to get over the rape culture they have and stop looking for the next hand out from the west. In short, they need to get their shit together and solve their own damn problems.

Re:Agreed with Akinyede

[ultranova]

Um... no... See "Broken window fallacy"

Broken window fallacy only applies to idealised conditions of a perfectly efficient market that utilizes all available resources 100% at all times. If that condition is not met - for example, if a window maker can't find a new job fast enough to avoid falling into poverty and possibly triggering a cascade effect at that, or if you need to keep one available for emergencies yet the prevailing culture doesn't allow you to rise taxes to support a public retainer - then breaking windows can actually be the best available option.

More generally, the concept of a fallacy does not apply to economics, which is applied psychology rather than logic. "Under the most rigorously controlled conditions of pressure, temperature, humidity, and other variables, the organism will do as it damn well pleases."

Re:Agreed with Akinyede

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem with the ELE argument is that we're not currently facing a single event. We're facing a systemic fuck up that kills us in multiple ways. When the crops fail, people don't eat. When the animals die, people don't have anything to hunt. When it's too hot or too cold, or just plain too much of anything, both of those happen. Then you can say, technology, but at present we don't have adequate infrastructure to replace peak oil. So uhm, where are the synthetic foods going to come from? As the population dwindles from disease and starvation, there is less and less labor pool to create this infrastructure. Maybe this takes hundreds of years but I have heard reports that say we've already hit the point of no return with climate change. So all we can do now is try not to make it worse and go into damage control mode. Hundreds of years from now we could all be dead. Even with a stable reproductive pool, without food, oxygen, water we're dead before the environment recovers.

Re:Agreed with Akinyede

[TangoMargarine]

Hence it would probably be a good idea to establish some sort of colony off-planet.

Re: Agreed with Akinyede

[khallow]

They are investing in infrastructure that does not yet exist.

What would this "infrastructure" do that would have any value for Africa? Merely putting things in space need not have positive value, especially if they hit other objects in orbit. And as I noted, the money would be taken from other areas.

Re: Agreed with Akinyede

[MightyYar]

Commercial launches would bring in foreign money, for one thing. African companies that depend on space assets would be able to go to a local source, for another.

Re: Agreed with Akinyede

[khallow]

Commercial launches would bring in foreign money, for one thing.

How does this help them attract commercial launches? I think having a stable and relatively non-corrupt legal environment would do much more.

Re: Agreed with Akinyede

[MightyYar]

I'll tell you what can't help them attract commercial launches: no space program whatsoever.

Re: Agreed with Akinyede

[khallow]

I'll tell you what can't help them attract commercial launches: no space program whatsoever.

But again, how is having a space program better in this regard than not having one. Some of these countries have an advantage in that they are close to the equator and have some other quirks of geography. The rest don't. In those cases, they just shouldn't be trying.

It's a standard comparative advantage argument. Find what you're good at doing and do that. Don't try to do what others are already doing far better and more aggressively than you can ever do.

Re: Agreed with Akinyede

[MightyYar]

I can't say whether it is a sound investment or not - only time will tell. I just am certain it is not an example of the broken window fallacy.

No, do not believe him!

[cripkd]

Guys, this is a scam, do NOT reply to him!
Mr Joseph Akinyede, if that's your real name, I have already contacted the police and they are on their way!

Re:No, do not believe him!

[They'reComingToTakeM]

Whoosh!

Re:No, do not believe him!

[Cryacin]

But... I sent him little Johnny's college fund!

Re:No, do not believe him!

[gl4ss]

I'm the real Joseph and this guys spamming is making it hard for me to find a contractor for my Sub Saharan Space Rocket(SSSR) program that I have been given the budget of 50 million dollars (50.000.000 US$) for.

If you can find someone to pay the Tender Fee of ten thousand dollars(10,000 $US) for the Liberian Aegis Bank Limited fees regarding this budget, we are authorized to pay you a maximum consulting fee(tax free under provision 123 of the SSSR contracting contract) of 650 000£ into an account of your choosing.

Please Contact as soon as possible, PO BOX 87877676(Road Twelve, Staden 1, 00300 Sweden).

Re:No, do not believe him!

[khallow]

It's totally not a scam. He used three significant digits!

Great for African telco prices

[AHuxley]

This will be very positive for regional telco prices. As more efforts like Regional African Satellite Communication Organization (RASCOM) move forward, Africa will enjoy much lower call cost and more bandwidth.
As Ethiopian jet maintenance shows, Africa will enjoy the benifits of its own space science technology advancements over time.

Re:Great for African telco prices

[Charliemopps]

Have you ever flown ethiopian airlines?

Here's a pic from my trip:
Our Trip

Space exploration is critical for Africa now?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure, $2/day is relative and can mean anything. Our grandparents lived a healthy life on about the same amount but due to inflation the dollar became worthless. Ignoring this though, I'm pretty sure not all of Africa is starving and there are some pretty damn wealthy countries there. Despite that, I don't think this warrants space exploration but rather an investment in weather manipulation would probably be best for the dry areas? Education / removal of religion would probably do them good. Can't feed a family of 10 from the good word, now can you? I know personally that preaching to not use condoms, and to have as many kids as physically possible is part of religious values but it causes a lot of poverty and spreads a lot of diseases. That's why I made that suggestion earlier.

Re:Space exploration is critical for Africa now?

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

Sure, $2/day is relative and can mean anything. Our grandparents lived a healthy life on about the same amount but due to inflation the dollar became worthless.

I'm not sure what you're trying to demonstrate here. Your grandparents lived on $2 a day when $1000 bought you a car. Today's starving africans live on 2 of today's dollars, when $1000 buys a wing mirror. Your point is...?

Re:Space exploration is critical for Africa now?

[flyingfsck]

The thing is, they can and do live on 50c a day, but you cannot. The whole situation is different there. I'm not saying that living on 50c a day is pleasant, but if you would try to live on that, you would die of starvation within 10 days or so, but they will still be there and be happily making even more babies to live in even worse conditions later.

Re:Space exploration is critical for Africa now?

[Thanshin]

Anyone can live on 50c/day, as long as they are there.

It's common for backpackers to discover after a while in Thailand that they can live for 1€/day and decide that their plan to stay as long as money allowed made no sense, as a simple call to their parents for a tiny bit of money would pay them another year there.

Re:Space exploration is critical for Africa now?

[Teancum]

One of the little told aspects of Ted Kaczynski (aka the Unibomber) is that he was able to live and thrive on very little money. He had a small cabin in Montana and was almost completely self sufficient.... living in a first world economy no less. Admittedly that also helped keep him "off the grid", and was one of the reasons why he was so hard for the FBI to trace, but living on just a few hundred dollars per year is still possible to do even in America at the current value of a dollar. Not easy, and like Kaczynski you would need to grow your own food, hunt, and slaughter your own animals needed for food, but it is possible.

The problem is the overgeneralization that anybody living this lifestyle is similarly deranged and needs to be imprisoned before they go and kill a dozen people.

The poor will always be with us

[flyingfsck]

Poverty is the oldest profession...

Re:The poor will always be with us

[Anonymous Coward]

"A lot has changed in the past 300 years. People are no longer obsessed with the accumulation of things. We've eliminated hunger, want, the need for possessions. We've grown out of our infancy."

Ooops, sorry. That's the kind of fictional work that George Clooney normally does.

Re:The poor will always be with us

[Thanshin]

Poverty is the oldest profession...

I disagree. Poverty is very unnatural. Many natural professions predate even the possibility of poverty: Hired muscle, Prostitute, Priest, Slaver.

Re:The poor will always be with us

[VortexCortex]

Poverty is the oldest profession...

I disagree. Poverty is very unnatural. Many natural professions predate even the possibility of poverty: Hired muscle, Prostitute, Priest, Slaver.

This begs the question. Are the apes not poor by human standards? If we gave them jobs wouldn't they be impoverished prior, and haven't they been since before humans had jobs? Additionally: Have you never considered the first Hired muscle, Prostitute, Priest, and Slavers took up the job because they were too poor not to turn it down?

Re:The poor will always be with us

[Thanshin]

No, they are not. Poverty is an artificial construct that depends on a previous one, which is property.

An ape can't be rich nor poor, as he has no property. The first thug, whore, shaman or slaver, did the "job" in exchange for something other than property. Be it protection, food or pleasure.

Re:The poor will always be with us

[Anonymous Coward]

This begs the question. [..]

No, it doesn't

Re:The poor will always be with us

[Anonymous Coward]

Poverty is an artificial construct that depends on a previous one, which is property.

Poverty is the absence of possessions. "Possessing" something means being able to make decisions about how that something is used.

An ape can't be rich nor poor, as he has no property.

An ape can possess a stick by having the physical ability to use said stick for that which an ape would want to use a stick. An ape cannot enter into a written contract with other apes regarding the stick, but he can assert ownership of the stick by repelling the efforts of other apes to use the stick. Thus, an ape can own property and be rich or poor. I suppose you are trying to make some idiotic Marxist or anti-capitalist or anti-human progress point about property. Just which silly, unrealistic utopian vision of the world are you pushing?

The first thug, whore, shaman or slaver, did the "job" in exchange for something other than property. Be it protection, food or pleasure.

Food is property. Protection is the guarantee of security for person or possessions. Collectivist ideologies destroy security by placing ownership in the hands of whomever claims to be using a society's property for the "good of the people" and lead to much abuse of drugs and alcohol. Pleasure is clubbing other hairless apes with sticks.

Re:The poor will always be with us

[khallow]

Poverty is the absence of possessions.

If there are no such possessions to not have, then there wouldn't be poverty by that definitioin. Having said that, I'd say that poverty is the condition of having to spend most of one's time and resources satisfying basic wants such as food and shelter. That would make apes poor.

Re:The poor will always be with us

[Anonymous Coward]

Poverty contrary to what many believe is a luxury allowing the most profilgate waste of humanity. Poverty is a luxury no nation can affort. Poverty is not a profession it is a waste.

I discussed in detail the economic progression of a tiny town in the Philippines with a city councilman. He had good plans and was making progress. I pointed out to him that the poor who lived subsitance in his community would be displaced by the progress towards prosperity. I also pointed out to him that he could neither afford to continue with the poverty or fail to make a place for the people displaced by progress. I pointed out that he must find a gentle way if possible to force these people to adapt to the world that was coming and that he did them no favor by allowing them to stay poor or allowing them to fail to adapt to the new way of living. I told him of the experience of the United States of America where we chose to allow people to remain poor by housing them in projects after displacing them. I explained how they and their successive generations were now bankrupting us and preventing our progress and nothing had been done to bring them into adapting to the future. --- He was incredibly thankful for the understanding and explanation of the problems ahead.

We need to understand these conditions for all of us. We all are affected. Probably the greatest problem with this is that human beings adapt over long periods of time and the adaptation of technology and its effects on us are nearly instantaneous.

Re:The poor will always be with us

[Anonymous Coward]

I disagree. Poverty is very unnatural. Many natural professions predate even the possibility of poverty: Hired muscle, Prostitute, Priest, Slaver.

Priests exist by the grace of poverty. Rich people don't need saving by fairy tale monsters.

Re:The poor will always be with us

[Anonymous Coward]

Apes are a strawman argument. Human beings are culturally adaptive and capable of migration. Apes have a broad area of habitat and things go belly up when the habitat is screwed. However, now that humans are everywhere and the environment is screwed, we are too. Hence, it is not as feasible as it once was for humans to live as nomadic hunter gatherers. Migration just changes the pressure on resources, it doesn't always remove that pressure. And the resources, being globalised, mean that country X takes it from country Y and unless country Y has clout on the world politics, they're more or less fucked. Poverty begets poverty in this fashion.

Re:The poor will always be with us

[DRJlaw]

Yes it does.

Collins English Dictionary
beg the question
      a. to evade the issue
      b. to assume the thing under examination as proved
      c. to suggest that a question needs to be asked the firm's success begs the question: why aren't more companies doing the same?

Webster's College Dictionary
Idioms:
1. beg the question,
      a. to assume the truth of the very point raised in a question.
      b. to evade the issue.
      c. to raise the question; inspire one to ask.

The English language is a living language where meaning is defined by its general users, not solely by logicians. You've already lost. Deal with it.

Wow, really?

[cripkd]

Meta-whoosh!

Re:Wow, really?

[VortexCortex]

What you have to ask yourself now is: What if the first woosh was the actual meta-woosh.

And just like that I invented the quantum woosh pair. The entangled meta woosh states now exist in super positions of themselves.

Re:Wow, really?

[thomst]

Posting to undo an inadvertently-incorrect moderation. Still getting used to the "glide" feature on my Synoptics touchpad. I meant to moderate VortexCortex's comment +1 Funny.

Re:Wow, really?

[nu1x]

The whoosh is in the ear of the listener.

Re:Wow, really?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is the Woosh Cat:
a) Dead?
b) Alive?
c) Both at the same time?
d) Neither?
e) A fast moving zombie?
f) A slow moving zombie?
g) A botnet zombie?
h) Michael Jackson's ghost?
i) All of the above?
j) None of the above?

Re:Wow, really?

[Walterk]

My theory is that it's whooshes all the way down.

Re:Wow, really?

[Anonymous Coward]

What if his name really is Joseph Akinyede and he is a scammer. Then there would be nothing meta about this at all.

Re:Wow, really?

[xevioso]

Ah, but now the real question... what if his name is Joseph Akinyede and he is NOT a scammer? And his post is the REAL DEAL!!!

Yea sure no problem

[Anonymous Coward]

There is a video on the internet in which hundreds of Africans celebrate their first rocket launch. The launch attempt captured on the video is one of the funniest shits I've ever seen. Those goofy Africans. Space? I think they should wait one or two centuries for that.

Crazy

[AndreyWelsh]

Space research should become private business.

Re:Crazy

[Applehu Akbar]

A few years ago, nobody thought the idea of poor nations skipping wired telephone infrastructure to go directly cellular would work either. This effort may lead to similar surprises.

that adjustment is included. Rice 8 cents per serv

[raymorris]

You're mistaken, it really is $2 / day, exactly like if you lived on $2 / day. You THINK you'd starve. In fact, you'd find out rice is 8 cents per serving. Potatos are slightly more. You've probably bought ramen noodles at 12 cents. You can eat on 30 cents per day. You're not eating at Olive Garden or drinking Starbucks, but you're eating.

At that, some people in Africa DO starve because they don't jhave the 30 cents per day. You could live off three packs of ramen per day, so can they - it's exactly the same. The only difference is that you and I complain about overdone pizza, they would rejoice over the same pizza.

Giving everyone $2/day:

[tlambert]

Giving everyone $2/day:

1.033 billion people * $2/day * 365 days/year = $754 billion

That's assuming that, because of local scarcity, the influx of cash doesn't just inflate the cost of everything, leaving everyone in exactly the same place they are today, only unable to afford food next year.

About the best aid we could possibly send to Africa would be to hire a bunch of Academi assassins to take down the corrupt politicians who are causing food aid to rot on the docks while the people the politicians want to oppress starve so that they can't rally sufficient effort to stage a violent overthrow of their corrupt governments.

Re:Giving everyone $2/day:

[tlambert]

"...hire a bunch of Academi assassins to take down the corrupt politicians..."

Maybe we should do a kickstarter?

Re:Giving everyone $2/day:

[AndreyWelsh]

who cares.... I would invest my petty cash into space research.

Re:Giving everyone $2/day:

[Trepidity]

The assassination thing gets tried now and then, but assassinated leaders have a habit of being replaced by other leaders, who are not always better. Sometimes, instead, they're replaced by multiple would-be leaders and a civil war, also not necessarily better.

Re:Giving everyone $2/day:

[Silpher]

Oh you mean economic hitman..? Yea that worked wonders in the past..

Re:Giving everyone $2/day:

[upside]

Food aid is a poisonous gift. You might feed a bunch of people, but it undercuts the livelihoods of local farmers, and just creates dependency on handouts. Disaster relief is one thing, but without a transition plan towards self sufficiency it is almost worse than nothing.

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatches/globalpost-blogs/rights/commentary-dependency-hinders-development

I saw a documentary about the aid industry in Haiti, and it was quite disgusting. Local builders and plumbers living in tattered tents without proper sanitation, just living on hand me downs from aid agencies whose interest was already focusing on the next disaster. Real aid would help the locals help themselves, not pay for aid industry fat salaries and materials manufactured in the donor countries.

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/10/09/opinion/where-does-aid-money-really-go/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9545584/Poverty-barons-who-make-a-fortune-from-taxpayer-funded-aid-budget.html

Re:Giving everyone $2/day:

[Anonymous Coward]

Giving everyone $2/day:

1.033 billion people * $2/day * 365 days/year = $754 billion

/quote>

That's the amount the world spends on the military IIRC.

Re:Giving everyone $2/day:

[Anonymous Coward]

"...hire a bunch of Academi assassins to take down the corrupt politicians..."

Maybe we should do a kickstarter?

With Bitcoin! And Blackjack and hookers. Don't forget the hookers!

Re:Giving everyone $2/day:

[Anonymous Coward]

$754 billion is about the amount the US spends on the military, IIRC.

Re:Giving everyone $2/day:

[Anonymous Coward]

> assassinated leaders have a habit of being replaced by other leaders, who are not always better. Sometimes, instead, they're replaced by multiple would-be leaders and a civil war, also not necessarily better.

In those cases you just try again until you deplete the pool of bad leaders, or terrify the remaining ones into being good.

Sounds like politicing to me

[Mr. Freeman]

> the application of space science technology and research to "basic necessities" of life – health, education, energy, food security, environmental management – is critical for the development of the continent.

If a country can't even provide clean drinking water to their people then how in the fuck do they expect to give them space-age technology? It doesn't matter what they might learn from space travel, because they can't even make use of technology, like water purification, that was perfected more than half a century ago!

Re:Sounds like politicing to me

[Phydaux]

Because space-age technology may be able to give them clean drinking water?

Re:Sounds like politicing to me

[JeffAtl]

Clean drinking water is already a solved problem.

The first B in BBC stands for British, right?

[madenglishbloke]

So how come someone from the UK isn't allowed to access that page? FTA: We're sorry but this site is not accessible from the UK as it is part of our international service and is not funded by the licence fee. It is run commercially by BBC Worldwide, a wholly-owned subsidiary of the BBC, the profits made from it go back to BBC programme-makers to help fund great new BBC programmes. I can sort-of understand non-UK readers being prevented from seeing things paid for by the License Fee, but UK residents being prevented from reading something NOT paid for in that way? **facepalm**

Re:The first B in BBC stands for British, right?

[madenglishbloke]

Okay, that's weird - /. just screwed up my formatting...

Re:The first B in BBC stands for British, right?

[Eunuchswear]

Okay, that's weird - /. just screwed up my formatting...

You must be new around here.

TFA

[Patch86]

Well, I just learned something new today. Even though TFA is BBC, and I am UK, I'm actually region-blocked from viewing it!

BBC Future (international version)

We're sorry but this site is not accessible from the UK as it is part of our international service and is not funded by the licence fee. It is run commercially by BBC Worldwide, a wholly-owned subsidiary of the BBC, the profits made from it go back to BBC programme-makers to help fund great new BBC programmes. You can find out more about BBC Worldwide and its digital activities at www.bbcworldwide.com.

If you are looking for health, technology, science and environment news in the UK, please visit:
Health, Technology, Science and Environment.

You'd think they would just show me the page alongside whatever advertising they deem to be appropriate for their commercial service, but I guess there must be some arcane rule in their charter which prevents that.

Bureaucracy can be a strange beast.

New idea for Africa what does your think about?

[Anonymous Coward]

Spice Rice?

Yes?

Spice is already in-breed to the rice. No spice needed after market. Crowdsource?

Funding

[Anonymous Coward]

Ahhh! So this is what all the nigerian spam was for! Funding for space program....

They could of told me this instead of trying to convince me that some late princes wife needs to transfer 1500000000$ out of the country and need my help (and my credit card number for ID verification!)

IT IS THE BRITISH WAY !!

[Anonymous Coward]

And that sir or madam is the problem !! First wrong side of the road !! Blimey !! Whatever that is !! Second is paying for a license to own a telly or trying to hide from the triangulators looking for scofflaws !! B;imey !! Third is living on an island that if it were not for the American Gulf Stream would be colder than a witches tit !! BLIMEY !!

Quote

[IWantMoreSpamPlease]

'To Western eyes, it may seem rather inappropriate to launch space programs in sub-Saharan Africa, where nearly 70% of the population still lives on less $2 a day

And he would be correct all around. I think Africa has larger issues to deal with first, before sending someone into space...but that's just my viewpoint

Re:Quote

[drinkypoo]

I think Africa has larger issues to deal with first, before sending someone into space...but that's just my viewpoint

Investment in space investment in Africa (which is a big place) is also investment in infrastructure in Africa, because you can't achieve it otherwise.

Africa needs space

[XB-70]

When I was a kid in the 60s, we had an African student stay with us. He was studying climatology. He was also fascinated by space. After graduation he returned to his home country. Using the information he had acquired, he collected satellite data on weather conditions (which was very advanced thinking for that time). He went into the country-side and advised local farmers of impending droubts, locust infestations and floods. The first year he did it, they were, at best, dismissive. When he went back to them after his forecasts has proved correct, they eagerly listened to him and it changed the agrarian economy. He also advised fishermen of temperature changes off-shore indicating optimal times to fish. This allowed local fishermen to get out to the fish before the huge Japanese trawlers came and took everything.

He went on to have his own department at the local University.

Of course, because of his good work, his nation rewarded him with threats to the lives of himself, his wife and his family so I won't state his name or other information about him here.

Might sound racist....

[Anonymous Coward]

But the real reason africa is in such disarray is because of corruption on every level. I don't see how you could get a space program going in such an inefficient climate.

In the unlikely case they got the ball rolling, all kinds of "officials" would chime in saying they don't have permits for this or that. Extend that for a couple of years, and it will brake the most powerful spirit.

Really sad, but realistic.

Re:Might sound racist....

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would pointing out the corruption of African govts be racist? It is a testament to the degree of indoctrination suffered by many westerners that they feel the need to carefully examine any negative statement involving blacks in any context for possible racial insensitivity. A crook is a crook. Africa didn't invent (well, maybe Africa did, depending on human origins) and doesn't have a monopoly on political corruption. The white countries of the west are wealthy and function well because they developed the cultures and institutions that create wealth and provide security in body and property for the individuals in those countries. There is no reason to feel guilty about coming from a well-functioning society and no reason to feel guilty about pointing out how screwed up other countries are. Such attitudes of excessive self-examination can lead to self-loathing which will inevitably result in Detroit.

Space is one cold motherfucker...

[Anonymous Coward]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX_687HwX9c

This is just the latest scam.

[Anonymous Coward]

This is just another scam to redistribute wealth, putting more money into the hands of the pillaging strongmen of Africa. Poverty in Africa is a product of culture. Changing African cultures is the only way that poverty can be significantly reduced. Pillaging govts perpetuate poverty. Opportunity encouraging govts create wealth.

Third world people = third world country

[Anonymous Coward]

What a joke. "it may seem rather inappropriate to launch space programs in sub-Saharan Africa" - due to the fact that the average IQ of an African is 70. Which means they haven't got the BRAINS to have a space program, and thus don't deserve one. Unless 'whitey' does it all for them!

I know - white people can DESIGN and BUILD the rocket, spaceship, spacesuits, computers, mission control, radio equipment, etc.etc. then GIVE it all to worthless Africans, then the worthless Africans can fly an AUTOMATED rocket into space, and claim "Look, we Africans are just like you whites! Can we call come and live in YOUR countries now?"

Are you sick of this Jewish nation-wrecking yet? Of course not. You'd rather silence anybody who doesn't agree with your god, the T.V., and watch as your children's country is destroyed beyond repair.

United Nations thinks it's a good idea

[tomhath]

Yet Joseph Akinyede, director of the African Regional Centre for Space Science and Technology Education in Nigeria, an education centre affiliated with the United Nations Office for Outer Space Affairs, says that the application of space science technology and research to “basic necessities” of life – health, education, energy, food security, environmental management – is critical for the development of the continent.

Yea, send more UN money. I'm confident that the leaders of those countries will spend it wisely.

Re:United Nations thinks it's a good idea

[hawkfish]

Yet Joseph Akinyede, director of the African Regional Centre for Space Science and Technology Education in Nigeria, an education centre affiliated with the United Nations Office for Outer Space Affairs, says that the application of space science technology and research to “basic necessities” of life – health, education, energy, food security, environmental management – is critical for the development of the continent.

Yea, send more UN money. I'm confident that the leaders of those countries will spend it wisely.

You mean give it all to the plutocrats? After all, that is the American way!

Only to the fools

[morgauxo]

" it may seem rather inappropriate to launch space programs in sub-Saharan Africa, where nearly 70% of the population still lives on less $2 a day"

Only to the fools.

A space program creates jobs, develops technology and gives people somethig to be proud of and aspire towards. It will always be easy to count the money that goes into any space program but the benefits and money coming out will outweigh the cost. It's harder to count that though so the fools will always be around holding manking back.

I don't care what you are working towards, wherever you set your goals you will almost always fall a little short. If their goal is just to provide everyone the minimal basics, food, clean water and shelter then they will fail to do even that. If their goal is to make continual progress and achieve great things the outcome will still be less than the goal but the basics will be more than covered.

We don't need to convert populations living off of $2 into populations living off of $3. We need to convert them to healthy, prosperous and advancing communities everywhere and in every way.

Re:Only to the fools

[Anonymous Coward]

Well Said. People adapt to the goals and expectations given to them in their environment.

As for the "West," given mass unemployment, stagnant economies, disappearing manufacturing jobs and reduced R&D development they are in no position to criticize.

Quite frankly many of them could use expanded space programs in their own countries. And particularly the US, which has lost 5,500,000 + manufacturing jobs in just the last 10 years to China and other Asian countries who take space exploration and scientific R&D seriously. Also the US continues to waste over $600 billion/year on pointless military expenditures (instead of infrastructure and govt supported R&D) while the rest of the world recognizes such behavior as pointless and invests in scientific research.

Re:Only to the fools

[Anonymous Coward]

People adapt to the goals and expectations given to them in their environment.

So, in your view, the best expectation to promote in Africa is for them to let other countries tell them how to run their countries? What is that really teaching Africans?

As for the "West," given mass unemployment, stagnant economies, disappearing manufacturing jobs and reduced R&D development they are in no position to criticize.

Western societies are still more stable and wealthy than societies in any other region. The unemployment in the West is largely a result of economic surplus and generous welfare systems. Bitch all you want, but the non-West envies and tries to emulate the West.

Quite frankly many of them could use expanded space programs in their own countries.

You don't understand the basics of economics. Except for com sats and ICBMs, space programs are mostly about national prestige and, because of opportunity costs, hinder rather than spur economic development.

the US, which has lost 5,500,000 + manufacturing jobs in just the last 10 years to China and other Asian countries who take space exploration and scientific R&D seriously.

The amount of money spent in the US by govt and private industry on space exploration and scientific R&D dwarfs that which is spent by China and other Asian countries. The manufacturing jobs lost by the US were lost because the business climate in the US has become hostile. High corporate taxes and strangulating regulations have driven economic activity out of the US. To make matters worse, the attacks on the rule of law by the Obama admin, Obamacare and grotesque levels of govt spending have dramatically added to the uncertainty of operating a business in the US, crippling the economy.

Also the US continues to waste over $600 billion/year on pointless military expenditures

All countries must provide for their own security either by maintaining an appropriate military or by forming alliances. American military spending not only provides security for the US, it also covers the security of many other nations and protects international trade. Opinions vary as to military uses and priorities, but US military expenditures are not pointless. Also, pay attention to the aftermath of the next large natural disaster. It's damn nice to have the logistics capability of the US military around when a tsunami displaces a few million people.

(instead of infrastructure and govt supported R&D)

The US spends plenty on infrastructure and on govt funded R&D. I believe it is still the case that the US outspends the rest of the world combined on infrastructure and govt R&D. Additionally, private sector R&D in the US greatly exceeds that of other countries where govt funding tends to crowd out private R&D.

while the rest of the world recognizes such behavior as pointless and invests in scientific research.

The "rest of the world" views military spending as pointless? Which world is that? Let me guess, a professor told you that the US doesn't spend enough tax dollars on R&D? Has it occurred to you that maybe the professor is really just begging for more money for his own use and has no concern for or understanding of overall economic and political considerations? Has it occurred to you that in every society new tech is almost always exploited by its military first? That being the only army using iron weapons when other armies use bronze weapons is very advantageous?

Re:Only to the fools

[morgauxo]

>>So, in your view, the best expectation to promote in Africa is for them to let other countries tell them how to run their countries? What is that really teaching Africans?

Isn't it mainly African leaders setting these goals?

>>Western societies are still more stable and wealthy than societies in any other region.

And declining. If the decline continues roles will reverse. Go ahead, argue all day as to what the future will bring.

>> The unemployment in the West is largely a result of economic surplus and generous welfare systems.

Well, that's your take. Prove it.

>> The manufacturing jobs lost by the US were lost because the business climate in the US has become hostile.

People fought hard to get a fair wage for a fair days work. Before that living conditions in the US really weren't much better than in the East. The fact is a few business leaders will always take everything they can get and give as little as they can get away with. You can argue that the US has swung too far against business if you want but the fact is that it was the opening up of markets to imports from where people do NOT get paid a fair wage, where worker safety and health is not a concern of management and most people are pretty miserable. We do not want to live that way. Just look at FoxConn, their employees don't even want to LIVE! Nobody should live that way.

>> >>Also the US continues to waste over $600 billion/year on pointless military expenditures
>> Opinions vary as to military uses and priorities
>> All countries must provide for their own security either by maintaining an appropriate military...

I don't know what the author of the parent comment believes but he did not state that military expenditures are pointless. His statement doesn't even say that ALL US military expenditures are pointless. He only states that the US spends money on military expenditures that ARE pointless. From the perspective that what a government obtains from it's people should be spent to the benefit of those people I agree. Unless... I can expect a check in the mail from whoever is getting all that Iraqi oil now....

Re:Only to the fools

[JamieIanMacgregor]

I'm wondering if they could even fence off an area without someone ripping it down and trading it in for cents on the dollar? there is a big enough problem with this sort of thing where I'm from so I cant imagine Nigeria being any better.

Re:that adjustment is included. Rice 8 cents per s

[Megane]

12 cent ramen? Ewwww, that's the crap stuff. I'll keep splurging on the 16.7 cent Maruchan ramen, thank you very much.

Re:that adjustment is included. Rice 8 cents per s

[MightyYar]

Thanks, you saved me from having to post that.

I'd add that things like cooking fuel are cheaper in the US as well. Where you'd have a problem, though, is housing. The governments in the US do not tolerate the same sorts of shanty towns that exist in Africa.

sigh

[koan]

"'To Western eyes, it may seem rather inappropriate to launch space programs in sub-Saharan Africa, where nearly 70% of the population still lives on less $2 a day."

To everyone's eyes.

The point is not the $2 a day

[Mister Liberty]

The point is if the population are dumb enough sheep to be taxed to the tune of billions total to fund the likes of NASA, NSA and
a couple of other acronyms and don't do anything about it but sit there and find ways to rationalize it all because the cognitive
dissonance does cause some unease.

Yeah yeah

[Anonymous Coward]

We tried that before in the '70s. Look up OTRAG. What's different this time?

The USA has saved a lot of money.

[Vitriol Angst]

We've saved a lot of money not REALLY bothering with space -- not really being serious about it anymore. Instead we've got this REALLY IMPORTANT deficit, but it doesn't exist when bailing out banks and being in really expensive wars hiring contractor mercenaries for ten times the regular soldier.

And so we've kind of become less inspired, less a beacon of hope and progress, less interesting.

Wasting money on inspiring children, on basic research and on people always pays for itself. The alternative is to horde and grow less.

Re:The USA has saved a lot of money.

[Teancum]

We've saved a lot of money not REALLY bothering with space -- not really being serious about it anymore. Instead we've got this REALLY IMPORTANT deficit, but it doesn't exist when bailing out banks and being in really expensive wars hiring contractor mercenaries for ten times the regular soldier.

I will agree that the USA is no longer being serious about going into space (with the exception of a bunch of starry eyed entrepreneurs who are being taxed into oblivion once it becomes profitable). As for saving money, I would dare say that expenditures for spaceflight have never been higher. Most of the spending on space at the moment comes not from high profile things like landing on the Moon, but instead on a bunch of three lettered acronymed agencies who have a budget that far outspends anything NASA has ever dreamed of having. NASA is not only but one of several space agencies in the U.S. federal government, they aren't even the largest any more. There is reason to think they may not even be #2.

Equator

[GuB-42]

Several countries in Africa are traversed by the Equator, which is a good place for launch facilities.
Maybe that's the idea.

Re:that adjustment is included. Rice 8 cents per s

[flyingfsck]

Housing - exactly. In most of Africa, housing is basically free, since they steal the building materials and the electricity, coal or oil. That is the main diff between say Alabama and Nigeria.

Zambia did it in 1964

[citizenr]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9Do3dz9TR0

Solar power sats?

[whitroth]

So, are they considering putting up solar power satellites, and beaming really cheap power down?

                  mark

PS The environmental impact study on SPS was done in the US... in the late seventies. No one's willing to front the money....

Re:Solar power sats?

[Anonymous Coward]

put it on kickstarter and do it with the launch your own satellite into space people, and give local farmers the satellites. i.e. bypass the plutocrats entirely

Re:SAY WAT?

[Anonymous Coward]

Instead of spending limited resources on pie in the sky programs that never go anywhere, the money should be spent on projects that will have a long term benefit.

There's implied merit to that argument, however, it would seem to me that the pie in the sky pissing contest between the USSR and USA in the 1960s has somewhat enabled us both to have this conversation.

But for some reason people think that every village must have a space program and every mud hut must have 100 jiggabit internet.

I don't think people think that at all, this is a strawman. Evidence please.

What africa needs is serous cultural and political reform.

Which part of Africa? It's a continent, not a country. Some parts are doing well, and the parts that are not are doing very poorly, and there are ALWAYS people within and without trying to reform.

The leaders need to realize they are responsible for the people

You could say the same thing about any part of the world. Granted, although the US, for example, does not have an issue with child soliders it does have a tendency to underfund certain schools and break local economies then send in the army to recruit poor kids with video games. Oh wait, so does Australia.

An the common people need to get over the rape culture they have and stop looking for the next hand out from the west

How are people going to get over rape culture when the source of education and hand outs is the the Catholic church and similar ideological persuasions? As for rape culture, this is a power struggle too and not just an educational one. In times of war it is typically women and children who suffer the most and it can turn good men (who may have joined the army to support a family when no other jobs were available, or crops failed, etc) into rapists whilst in the clutches of the platoon (mob think). As for hand outs from the west, foreign aid that goes towards actual projects that help people is lacking. Every so often a dollar trickles down to a UN sanctioned over-populated refugee camp in say Sudan, but how many people are actually benefiting from this in such a way as to prevent the actions that lead to becoming refugees in the first place, and how much profit in the west (or east for that matter) is generated from exploiting local resources and persons and selling arms? Genuine question. It's not a hand out if it's a hand up and sometimes, even if you can't consider basic human generosity towards starving people as an option, you can consider that cleaning up a mess that you (or the organisations you fund) helped create as basic human decency.

In short, they need to get their shit together and solve their own damn problems

If you think that a person with a gun to their head and four starving babies who is being threatened with rape doesn't see a problem that they will do their utmost to fix, I think you have a problem yourself. Of course people are trying. Those people need our support. Whether or not a space problem will help in that is a matter for debate but considering the lack of infrastructure and opportunity in some parts of Africa, I don't see how it could hurt.

Re:that adjustment is included. Rice 8 cents per s

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, when you've got trillions of dollars going towards decades long wars in other countries, you might expect there to be some adequate building materials and standards in the home country. But when you've got a handful of money to throw around and it's going to guns, and blowing up the infrastructure the people kind of have to make do. They don't want to live in shanty towns. They just don't have a choice.

Africa, I don't care what you do

[holophrastic]

Just stop begging me for money with disease-riddled children, starving, with bugs on their faces, and open wounds, on the food network. Basic farming never needed the space age. I'll give you as many seeds as you like. Grow'em, or walk until you can. It's been decades of your begging. I just don't care anymore.

What a Bizarre Fantasy.

[Anonymous Coward]

They have an awful time trying to run airlines, but now they want rockets? Riiiight.... If they have piles of money sitting around and don't know what to do with it, how about they set up potable water systems? or sewage plants? Or maybe roads, bridges, or electricity? I didn't know the Dunning-Kruger effect could apply to entire nations.

Re:SAY WAT?

[Lord Apathy]

Yes, yes, there is always one of you in every crowed. People that want to excuse every negative thing about africa. Want to put the blame and the responsibility to fix it every where but where it belongs.

You probably are just like bono and want to pour endless amounts of money into fixing something that its not our responsibility to fix. You probably think ever culture has value and is great.

Yeah, heard it all before. So by all means lets continue to pour endless amounts of money down the cesspit that is africa while dissolving the governments and the people of any form of responsibility to help themselves. At least you will be able to sleep better knowing its all everyone else fault but the poor little africans.