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Ford Self-Driving R&D Car Tells Small Animal From Paper Bag At 200 Ft.
cartechboy writes "Autonomous driving is every car manufacturer's immediate R&D project. In car-building terms, even if a new technology isn't due for 10 years — since that's just two full vehicle generations away-- it has to be developed now. So now it is for autonomous car research and testing, and this week Ford revealed a brand new Fusion Hybrid research vehicle built for autonomous R&D with some interesting tech capabilities. Technologies inside the new Fusion Hybrid research vehicle include LIDAR (a light-based range detection), which scans at 2.5 million times per second to create a 3D map of the surrounding environment at a radius of 200 feet. Ford says the research vehicle's sensors are sensitive enough to detect the difference between a small animal and a paper bag even at maximum range. More road-ready differentiations include observation and understanding of pedestrians, cyclists, and plain old stationary objects. Ford is working on this project in cooperation with the University of Michigan."
So, it has come to this.
You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
I read it as "Ford Self-Driving R&D Car Smells Small Animal From Paper Bag At 200 Ft." and my first thought was, "What the hell kind of test is that?!?"
Split second later, "Waaiit a second, that can't be right."
But hey, my truck smells like a small animal in a paper bag - from 2 years ago.
*goes back to sleep*
Can it tell if the small animal is *inside* the paperbag? I'm thinking of cats specifically. Cats and paperbags... cat lovers know what I'm talking about.
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
lets see what it can detect in the Northeast after 2 days of snow, salt and de-icer puts a 'film' of gunk covering 90% of the vehicle
Autonomous taxis already exist: you tell the driver to go the shortest or quickest way, and the driver almost always ignores you and chooses the least direct, more gridlocked route instead, all by himself
Also, you don't have to drive the taxi yourself.
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
All this self-driving car news is very hep for geeks an' all, but all of it - including stuff from Google - comprises press releases and footage from the companies involved. And, for some reason, despite the non-existent track record of all these firms when it comes to creating self-driving cars, we believe everything they have to say. What has happened to the passion for academic rigo(u)r that geeks used to enjoy? Has it really been replaced by the new religion of marketing?
I will believe that there is an even remotely usable self-driving car in existence when I see ONE independent evaluation of these cars being taken through a real world driving scenario: my choice would be a commuter route along the south coast of England, starting somewhere in the centre of Brighton, taking the main roads up to the M25, round to the Dartford tunnel, then negotiating the centre of London, stopping just outside the Houses of Parliament. And nobody on the company payroll would be allowed n the car, nor to give ANY remote feedback. Just like, you know, real autonomous driving.
Why do you want them everywhere?
Milton Keynes shall be first.
If production is 10 years from now, we will have hit the concrete wall by then. 2.5 million scans per second is not going to get processed by a 10$ chip. It will be interesting to see how the end of Moore's law will affect this and similar projects.
10 ?"Hello World" life was simple then
I wonder about all these active technologies; lidar, radar, ultrasonic, etc. They work very well when there is only one vehicle in the area. What happens on a crowded freeway when there are a couple hundred vehicles an the area pumping out all those emissions? Wouldn't it be difficult to differentiate between returns due to your emitters and the emitters from other vehicles? Unless each emitter is working on a different frequency interference is a possibility. There is also the issue of sensors being sensitive enough to detect return but filtered enough not to be dazzled by the direct emissions from other vehicles close by.
Ford says the research vehicle's sensors are sensitive enough to detect the difference between a small animal and a paper bag even at maximum range.
Given that the sensors can detect a difference here are some follow on questions that seem important.
1. Can it detect which one is the animal and which one is the bag? (they talk about difference not identification)
2. Can it tell if the small animal is alive or dead if it is not moving.
3. Can it tell if the animal is on a leash and not going to be an issue?
4. Can it detect if there is a barrier between the animal and the desired route of travel and the animal not being an issue?
5. Can it tell the difference between a turtle and a rabbit? Turtles having much more restricted movement possibilities than a rabbit.
6. Will it remember that the small animal went into the bag. Out of sight out of mind.
7. Can it differentiate between an empty bag and a bag of cement? Driving over an empty bag is not a problem. Driving over a bag of cement is probably a problem.
Detecting the difference between a small animal and a paper bag is important but it is only the first step in in a very complex decision process to determine what to do with that information.
I won't sit in a Ford with the engine running, and in the future it seems I won't get on the highway with Ford's self driving cars on the road. I'm terrified that there's going to be some leftover Microsoft code in there somewhere (i.e., from Sync).
If I didn't have absolutely NOTHING to do, I wouldn't be here.
I've ridden in a lot of taxis recently in the UK, Belgium, the Netherlands, France, Germany and Greece. I would miss having a live driver to tell me all the gossip in the city. Taxi drivers are always the most informed folks in any city. They can tell you who the mayor is sleeping with and where he buys his drugs.
The NSA shouldn't pay employees to play online games. They should have them drive around in taxis and talk to the drivers. Taxi drivers would make the best intelligence network.
Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
But can it detect a brick in a paper bag that youngsters put for fun on the street?
and in any other country a real driver means haggling for the friggin price, fighting to find a cabbie that will take you 15km out of the city and the cabbie not having a fucking clue about where anything is in the city(except nightclubs he gets commission from), since the cabbie is cheap labor imported from the rural area outside the city...
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
What happens when the car realises it doesn't need the driver to get around and could easily pop down to the local garage itself when it needs spare parts or petrol/electricity? Or when it gets tired of smelling faintly of sick, or having its lovely seat fabric ruined by small humans?
And if it can tell a paper bag from a small animal from 200 ft, perhaps it can also distinguish a rubbish bin from a human so it knows WHICH ONE TO KILL?
I'm not saying this will happen, I'm just asking questions.
And I've found some taxi drivers to be borderline racist and complain continuously about the "bloody immigrants".
You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
Imagine all these self driving cars networked together... scanning a 200ft radius millions of times a second creating a effectively recorded 3d world. If there's enough cars, they could have a 3d record of most places - though admittedly storage would be an issue. Good luck trying to do ANYTHING wrong.
"Sorry, car 23034 identified you as speeding, here's your fine..."
On a lighter note, pretty good news for racing sim fans, getting details 3d scans of awesome roads won't be as difficult.
Don't look at the CCTV cameras in Milton Keynes. You could get stoned.
You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
Taxi drivers like to think that they are always the most informed folks in any city
Ford gave "Paper jam" a whole new meaning.
So that whereever I am, I can choose to get the taxi and it'll be right there.
You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
200ft? That's about 60m. That puts it far to close to the ideal, best condition stopping distance of a car moving at about 60km/h. The software for detection isn't new, and ladar has had this sort of range for a while. Quintiple the range and keep processing real time, then it'll be worth news
When I was living in London, we'd always use unlicensed mini cabs to get back from clubs - mainly because they didn't know where they were going - it meant you could haggle to get the price down to well below what it should be*. Also, the look of their faces when they realise they have no idea how to get back to Souff London from Stoke Newington because you had direct them at every turn.
* Could also be fun getting prices
M: Hi, how much to Central Street?
T: Um, £15?
M: Look at that sign over there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xVrJ8DxECbg
You won't hear that in NYC.
Just detecting the paper bag and differentiating it from a rabbit is really kinda irrelevant. What is inside the paper bag? It could be rabbit food (harmless little pellets) or it could be a trailer hitch. History shows that this is relevant.
Probably not, but then I'm in the UK and sound doesn't travel that far.
You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
This emerging technology is not working absolutely perfectly, therefore it never will. The recently released news of this advancement does not meet real-world worst-case scenarios, therefore we should lambast the manufacturers and researchers for pursuing what is obviously dead-end tech.
What makes a new technology "DUE" in 10 years, 15 years, at all?
Are we somehow obligated to a mandate?
I even RTFA and no answer on why the technology is due in 10 years.
Let's rush to market with this....wait...has somebody forgotten Google already has this?
"Bear fruit for real-world cars..." ??
While the whole system is very cool and 200' sounds like a lot, remember that at highway speeds, a car is covering ~100' per second, so 2 seconds to identify, contemplate, and react to that obstacle.
Logically, in oncoming situations (as a worst-case), two highway-speed vehicles 'detecting' at 200' have only about one second (actually less thanks to inertia, given that control-input and -effect isn't instant) to resolve, contemplate, and react.
I have to imagine the guys working on these systems are acutely aware driving home every day of how astonishingly capable our brains are.
-Styopa
200 feet is just a tad under the distance required to decelerate from 65 mph to zero on dry pavement. In other words, the system gives gives enough advance warning so you know what you're about to gently bump into after screaming to a stop in a cloud of smoke. Or crash into, if the pavement happens to be wet.
I'd say 10 years to mass market is optimistic.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
The autonomous car detects a cat in the road, and then what does it do? Does it slam on the brake even tho you're doing 65 mph and there's an 18 wheeler 3 feet from your rear bumper? Does it try to brake and swerve even tho there's a glaze of ice on the road?
I'm just waiting for someone to hack the ****s who double park and get their self driving cars to park in the canal!
Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.
Well the Russians are way ahead of Ford. They drive around with dash cams all the while and their systems can not only tell a paper bag from a small animal, it can tell if there is a small animal inside the paper bag. Not only that, it would take that cute cat in a paper video and upload it to the click bait web site also has a drive by download malware. Sergey Gregorovich, the owner of the malware site, says, "My R&D investment in integrating small animal in paper bag detection technology with dash cam, auto upload and drive by download technologies have given me rich dividends".
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Sorry, I'm not familiar with the customs in all of our former colonies.
That's what SHE said
You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
I can't wait until Ford starts making hybrid fusion cars. We only have a couple of years to make Mr. Fusion happen.
I have a Ford Focus that features a computer-controlled manual transmission. So it's easy to drive, like an automatic, but gets somewhat better MPG, like a manual. Problem is, the computer often shifts it like somebody who doesn't know how to drive a stick. It used to stutter when backing up, but that got fixed via a software update in factory recall. (Hackers, here's a new attack vector.) Anyway, once they can get that right, then maybe they'll be ready to drive the whole car.
Hello I'm Johnnycab, where can I take you tonight?
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
Everyone already knows where the Toronto mayor buys his drugs.
Why?
You are welcome on my lawn.
I'm sorry. Would you please rephrase the question?
You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
So I can sit on the side of the street with a strobe light and confuse the car.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
I'm sure they'll have an Internet connection on the autonomous taxis. You'll find all the gossip on the Internet, so what do you need a driver for?
Can it tell if its firmware has been modified by a virus or intentionally and contains a payload that will attempt to crash the car?
You often find small animals hiding in paper bags looking for food.
Speeds up and swerves to cream animal.
Slows down to see what's in bag.
Good car. Good car.
Why? FWD has better traction because more weight is over the drive wheels, and it's more stable (when rear drive wheels slip the car fishtails).
Depends on the weight distribution in the particular car. Drive something like a BMW where the weight distribution is close to 50/50 and you don't have such an advantage from FWD. The type of drive system (FWD, RWD, AWD, 4WD) only actually matters when accelerating. FWD works better for many people for exactly the reasons you mention but a RWD rear engine car (porsche 911) can get excellent traction for the same reasons. Really you want AWD or 4WD if traction under acceleration is a big concern. But a good set of snow/winter tires will make a MUCH bigger difference than the type of drivetrain ever will for most vehicles.
As for tire width, I never noticed that
Generally speaking wider tires often perform worse in snow all other things equal because they don't penetrate through the snow as easily. There are plenty of exceptions but they tend to float over the snow rather than penetrating down to pavement.
The cut of the tread is another matter.
It's not just the cut of the tread. It also is the rubber compound that matters. Snow tires don't get as hard in colder temperatures in addition to usually have different tread properties. They make a HUGE difference even in relatively modest amounts of snow. In many places a good all-weather tire can perform adequately but you will notice an improvement in sloppy conditions with a set of snow tires.
About the only problem I know of with FWD in slippery conditions is that the weight gets transferred to the rear when going uphill.
You'll always have the same problem when accelerating because the weight shifts to the rear tires when you accelerate. This is why FWD cars make rather bad dragsters. You don't typically notice in your boring family sedan because the car doesn't have enough power for it to matter much. Many RWD vehicles are poorly balanced in order to make them understeer so the weight distribution is too far forward. But it doesn't have to be that way and isn't in some RWD cars. I would actually argue (from my own experience) that a well balanced RWD car is easier to drive in the snow than many FWD cars.
is this for keeping score? 5 points for a bag, 50 points for a cat? Just wondering, since it is not an issue to run over a paper bag, and while running over an animal is not desirable, it is also safer than trying to avoid it.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
... Ford says the research vehicle's sensors are sensitive enough to detect the difference between a small animal and a paper bag even at maximum range...
That is not as difficult as it may sound. And it is not a question of "sensitivity". The paper bag does not generate heat, while a small animal does.
.
So big deal - the car has an infrared camera on board.
Well, it's supposed to be cheaper on gas since the engine is pulling you forward instead of pushing.
You'll have to cite a source for that because the wheel doesn't know whether it is pushing or pulling and despite being an engineer I cannot think of any physics reason why pushing versus pulling would make a spec of difference in fuel economy. FWD cars are often less performance oriented which means they might be designed with fuel economy higher on the priority list but that isn't an inherent advantage of FWD over RWD.
But, I've been in a few North American cars which, despite being FWD, have a big hump going through the middle for no good reason, the same as if there was a drive shaft to the rear wheels.
Which ones? I can't think of any that fit that description and I'm kind of a car nut. Admittedly I'm not familiar with every car out there. The only reason this might happen is if the car is available in FWD and 4WD configurations. In cases like that you aren't going to design separate chassis.
I've also seen several cars which still more or less put in a rear axle (even if it's not a drive axle) when you'd be better using independent suspension. The Pontiac Aztec and I think some of the Dodge minivan type things are good examples of this.
The Aztec was available in FWD and AWD. To get AWD you kind of need a way of getting the power to the rear wheels. An axle is usually involved.
A ridiculous press release.
Did they mention HOW RELIABLY it can tell a paper bag from a kid on a bigwheeler on the road?
If it is less than 99.99% correct, the first kid that gets run over will spawn a billion-dollar lawsuit.
I ran over a cat once; and it was the right decision at the time. Will the car be able to make that assessment?
I know I had no choice and it still bothers me. I still see that kitten running out from the side of the onramp, diagonally across the road. I still remember that split second where I saw no where to go but off the road into a ditch, no time or space to stop....and the look of excitement on the kittens face running towards a fate he could not have expected.
I wonder, how will a driverless car react in a no-win situation? Because I know I am not the only person to have faced one. Someone I know was on her first long distance trip out of state and suddenly found a deer in front of her. She didn't have the experience to make the snap judgement, she didn't hit the deer...instead she swerved and ended up bouncing off gaurd rails like a pinball. Telling this to my rural living cousin his response was unceremonious: "Never swerve for a deer; just hit it" (moose btw, are another story)
Then again, maybe if it was a kid, do you go for the ditch? Is it different if its just me in the car or a carload of people? (kids in the car?). A driver can debate these things and make split second decisions to sacrifice himself; a driverless car has to leave this decision to engineers who design how it makes decisions.
I think it makes the most sense to constrain its emergency response to what keeps the occupants the most safe in all situations; that seems most right but, its not always easy to feel good about. I don't think I would want to be the guy who wrote that code.
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
We're now only one military project to add guns and automonous firing controll short of the robot uprising.
people like to think that _they_ are always the most informed person, in the known universe, on any topic, at any time.
if they don't know it, then it must not be important, or relevant.
ftfy
when you can design a car that doesn't start to fall apart soon after the warranty expires. I bought a 1994 Taurus and liked the car, but it cost me a fortune in repairs. In one case, a new gear went into the transmission about a week after the one-year warranty expired on the previous gear replacement. I asked Ford to replace the part at no cost to me. When they declined, I decided I would never, ever own another Ford under any circumstances, not even as a gift.
So, Ford, you saved yourselves about a hundred bucks and you not only lost a customer forever, but every time the subject of cars comes up, I warn people about my experiences with Ford products.
BTW, if there is any good that came out of the disaster of owning a Ford, it is that I couldn't possibly be happier with my Acura! Adios, Ford.
He'll go nuts because he sees a leaf in the road, and then on the way back he'll go nuts again.. over the same leaf. No, it hasn't changed into something else.. Maybe Ford should make robot dogs. Wow, this comment is going to get upvoted so fast.
A car covers 200ft in 2.7 seconds when going at 50 mph, that is not all that much time to make an adjustment. The 2.5 million scans per second seems like a stretch. Perhaps the system aquired 2.5 millions READINGS per second using a collection of lidars.
Not to mention that all Greek taxi drivers are also freelancer psychologists. Just start a conversation about women and that cab's back seat becomes Dr. Freud's armchair...
The Ford vehicle has four Velodyne HDL-32 LIDAR units. This is the generation after the one Google uses. They're smaller, but the field of view is wider vertically and the resolution is lower.
They spin and get full-circle images, so for research purposes they're usually mounted on top of the vehicle. But that has to change for production vehicles. A production system wiill need more sensors better integrated into the auto body.
Former because you euro trash fags got your asses kicked.
If you hear someone in New York using "bloody" as a vulgarism ("Bloody beggars!") is an immigrant, or a tourist. Same as if they say "Get me fags out of the boot, would you, love?"
Many (most?) Americans would have no clue what the sentence means. They would think it had something to do with homosexual feet and probably something really strangely kinky.
This is funny. But there is something about it that is not.
200 ft. at highway speeds is less than 2 seconds. In order to avoid said small animal, the car would have to rather radically swerve, and disrupt both traffic behind it, maybe in adjacent lanes as well, and would most certainly disturb the occupant(s) of the car.
It has to do better than that to be practical.
Autonomous taxis already exist: you tell the driver to go the shortest or quickest way, and the driver almost always ignores you and chooses the least direct, more gridlocked route instead, all by himself
It might go something like this:
Johnnycab: Please state the street and number.
Quaid: Drive! drive!
Johnnycab: I'm not familiar with that address. Would you please repeat the destination?
Quaid: Anywhere just go! Go!
Johnnycab: I'm not familiar with that address. Would you please repeat the destination?
Quaid: Shit! shit!
Johnnycab: Would you please repeat the destination?
Quaid: Ahh-ahwhaa-whaaa! (He rips out the Johnnycab)
Paper bags are far more dangerous than the small animal. One can hit a small animal if swerving means too high a chance of injury to the car. I have personally broken a wheel and damaged the left front quarter panel and brake system by wrongly assuming that a paper bag is harmless. Due to the fact that malicious (typically juvenile) delinquents will put bricks in paper bags and leave them in road ways, the distinction between the bag and the critter is as moot as the distinction between paper and plastic bag.
A vehicle travels 105.6 feet every second at 70 mph. So what is this car going to do in just under 2 seconds upon seeing an animal?
A friend of mine somehow managed to use the phrase "bumming a dead fag" in the USA without realising that those British words meant something entirely different. (He was trying to light his cigarette from someone else's cigarette that had just gone out).
You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
And how did it get into a paper bag 200 feet way??
I don't get it!
For an interview in NYC I was given a voucher for a ride from the airport. Two companies, both of whom initially claimed to not know what the voucher was. I got one to come get me, eventually, then the driver claimed to not know where Wall Street / Amex was. Driver on the return trip wanted me to come up with exact change for each toll instead of adding to the bill. Taxi drivers in San Diego threw a tantrum when I tried to pay with a credit card whose logo was displayed on their windows. The one tried to steal my card by claiming I hadn't given it to him. Taxis can kiss my shiny metal ass.