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Cobalt-60, and Lessons From a Mexican Theft
Lasrick writes "George Moore and Miles Pomper examine the theft of a truck containing Cobalt-60 and find that, while Mexico did the right thing and reported the theft promptly, they were under no obligation to do so according to international rules and the IAEA. This was true even though the stolen material was 3,000 curies, making it a Category 1 source (the most dangerous). Quoting: 'At a distance of 30.5 centimeters (1 foot) from an unshielded source with an activity level of 3,000 curies, the dose to a bystander would be about 37,000 Rem per hour (a measure of radiation exposure). This means that anyone within a foot of the source when it was out of its shield was being exposed to about 10 Rem per second, a level that would typically kill half of a population exposed to it for 30 seconds. ... The number of fatalities will not be nearly as high as it would have been if the source capsule had been left in a public place. Cobalt 60, like other high-risk radiological sources, is more lethal when it is kept intact as a high-strength source than it would be if spread using a radiological dispersal device such as a so-called “dirty bomb.” Nonetheless, had the Mexican source been used in a dispersal device, the economic consequences could have been extremely significant.'"
An account of what happened and what could have happened via Steve Weintz https://medium.com/war-is-boring/26b40dd869fb
Had a terrorist put this under a seat cushion in a bus terminal, they could kill hundreds, perhaps thousands before it would eventually be tracked down.
Damn dirty bombs, sneak attacks are more deadly.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
'61 was a much better year for Cobalt. Cobalt-60 far overrated, and people are paying too much for it on the open market.
is at far more risk!
We ain't afraid of no beaners. When we say "Jump!", President Beaner says "How high, señor?".
Just erase your cookies.
It will go away.
I'm so glad the news is reporting on exactly how to cause most deaths vs most economic havoc; the terrorists should bookmark this for their training seminars.
*facepalm*
>the economic consequences could have been extremely significant
That's a good way to measure the effects of thousands of innocent people dying mysteriously--the ECONOMIC consequences.
Perhaps we should but Cobalt-90 in an area where only unemployed people are likely to come in contact with it? Think of the economic benefits!
Many nuclear accidents in countries that cooperate with the IAEA get a a detailed freely available public report which is quite interesting reading.
Have any radiation-scorched-flesh Mexican men's bodies been found to date?
Because really, I can't believe in the danger we've been told about until the headlines of "them banditos are doomed, they opened the capsule" are proven true.
Laughter is the Spackle of the Soul.
...Mexican Jumping Beans
It's here to stay.
A similar device got loose in Brazil back in 1987, and serves as an example of the kind of mayhem that can heppen when one of these sources get loose even in the hands of non-malicious people. The story on it in wikipedia is interesting - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goi%C3%A2nia_accident.
Hey gais! I found Slashdot's interest in this story! Hey gais!
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
"the economic consequences could have been extremely significant"
ECONOMIC CONSEQUENCES?!?! *That's* what comes to mind?!?!?
Not exactly. A dirty bomb wouldn't kill very many people, not directly, anyways (or at least not in the short term, although it'd raise the cancer rate considerably). What it would do is be one of the best weapons of terror ever used. Radiation freaks people out, because they don't understand it, can't see it, and can't really do anything about it. Terrorism don't have to cause damage to be effective, all they have to do is cause terror. The people/government does the rest.
"None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license." --John Milton
Why will that Republican stereotype of Mexicans being radioactive just not die? You people that keep perpetuating that lie should be ashamed of yourselves. It's racism of the worst sort.
I used to think I spent to much time on Slashdot, and that maybe I should cut back.
This "beta" could be just what I need to help me quit Slashdot.
The entire quote beginning from "'At a distance of 30.5 centimeters..." should have been shortened down to something like what was found near the end of that quote (which was still over-long and bloviating). Therefore, approximately like the following:
"A person standing 1 foot away from this material for 30 seconds, unshielded, would stand a 50% chance of dying from the resultant exposure."
They needed to answer the question: How dangerous is this stuff? In terms any non-specialist can understand. Cut it out with the Curies, Rems, Category 1, disguised LD50 and technical jargon.
Answer: Really, really dangerous!
That relies on a model of people as scared animals instead of what often seems to happen in real disasters and in wartime. We've also been influenced by dozens of TV shows where radiation is seen as something safe for X minutes then a death sentence beyond, even if reality is very different to that. I don't think people would freak out as much as they would with the threat of nerve gas, chlorine etc etc or a normal bomb.
just how many libraries of congress is that?
I'd at least expect a fukushima or something...
Max.
Lessons? more like lesions!
I don't see how. I can understand ultraviolet radiation from the sun, but from cobalt? I guess cobalt gives tans like the sun or burns the skin? Can someone explain? Thanks
Yet with a dirty bomb attack the only people likely to benefit are those already in power by gaining more power as a result. As with any weapon of mass destruction the only defence is attack, so once someone attempts to use it against you the only future defence is all out attack. So only useful for false flags, as in the Anthrax attack target at US politicians by, well, US politicians, in order to drive the vote for the Patriot Act or as it is in reality the non-Patriot totalitarian police state Act.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
In a dirty bomb, I am much more afraid of the radioactive dust (plutoium is SO bad for you... Cobalt-60 IDK) thanb radioactivity by itself. I can always go to my basement survival room for a couple day and be rescued, but it lacks fine particle filtering.
Tomorrow is another day...
This is why food irradiation using radioactive elements, fondly rejiggered with the euphemism "cold pasteurization", is so insane. There are cheap food factories all over the U.S. with amounts of Cobalt-60 much greater than in this recent heist, with laughable security, all so we can be fed rotten, contaminated food they shouldn't be selling anyway.
The possible costs so outweigh the questionable "benefits" in this case, there is no other way to describe this terrorist-tragedy-waiting-to-happen other than willful, reckless endangerment of the lives of millions. All to make a few more dollars selling diseased meat.
Yes, but the other half would get super-powers.
I know how this stuff works. I read books. I been trying to break into x-ray labs for years hoping to get, like, you know, all buff and everything. Go ahead and laugh. We'll see who's laughing when I'm a one-man Fantastic Four.
You are welcome on my lawn.
"Cobalt 60, like other high-risk radiological sources, is more lethal when it is kept intact as a high-strength source than it would be if spread using a radiological dispersal device such as a so-called “dirty bomb.”"
I think how effective a weapon it is depends entire on where it is dispersed.
Say a water supply, a crowded subway, or maybe just go around dropping pellets on side walks.
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
Everyone is claiming that if you were within 3 feet of the Cobalt-60, you would be dead within 30 seconds or within an hour. How come the guys who stole the Cobalt-60 and opened the box are still alive? Lots of doom and gloom but the thieves are still alive days after and none appear in grave danger.
From TFA:
No contamination resulted because the capsule (typically a small welded stainless steel container that holds a wire containing cobalt ) was not itself opened.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
Pretty much.... I should start submitting my own not-news column here...
In other news, thousands of people looking up instructions on the Internet did not commit any domestic terrorist acts, despite the recent trend on searching for pressure cookers. Our analysts speculate this may because families may be shopping in preparation of their holiday meals.
On the international scene, nuclear weapons were not used in an attack for the 24,964th consecutive day. China, North Korea, Russia, and the United States have all vowed to "wipe their enemies off the map" if they shoot first. Civilians world-wide failed to cower in fear of the eminent threat of nuclear war.
And finally, in science news, it seems the Earth has survived another day without a cataclysmic meteorite impact, despite reassurances by YouTube experts that there will be one "any day now".
That's all from Things-That-Didn't-Happen-Today News, I am JW Smythe, and we hope to bring you more news tomorrow!
Serious? Seriousness is well above my pay grade.
Google isn't helping here...
I'm an AC - duh - can someone inform as how to disable the "beta" version of site? Redirect block doesn't seem to work any more. Thanks!
Can someone explain to me why this is trolling? I just don't get it. Thank you.
Tomorrow is another day...
gonna need a citation for that.
No idea - I'd go for very mildly offtopic at worst since I was writing about reaction, but it's certainly squarely on topic for the article. I'd say somebody just doesn't like you and is wasting mod points unaware that they can't make any difference unless you don't write comments very often.
It it is irradiated, then it has ben exposed to ionizing radiation.
Something can get irradiated without getting contaminated (easy to see if the source of the radiation isn't radioactive material, e.g. an x-ray tube), but if it's contaminated, then it is usually also irradiated.
Every time the concept of dirty bomb is used in film, or TV or in TV news, it is hyped to the extrem. But do the journalist and media do their job to make people understand that panick would be the risk, and radiation not the risk ? nope. nope. Nope. Here is your media failure. Journalist informing people ? Forget it.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
You tend to find only one solution to ever problem. There are multiple solutions, some better than others, and a number of sufficient quality that they are probably mostly equivalent.
A dirty bomb attack might benefit people not in power. Weapons provide defense by way of their threat of use (see the lessons of nuclear stockpiling, look at the reasons for a nuclear submarine fleet). Future defenses include strategic attacks, no attacks, and all out attacks of types financial and / or military (all which have been demonstrated to one degree or another in the last twenty years. And despite claiming that such a weapon would not be useful, it often is genuinely useful in obtaining sufficient status in gaining the attention and cooperation of groups that previously would ignore you.
Depends on what kind of "dirty bomb" it is ... ...
Distribute a few kg Plutonium as a dirty bomb over a city and there is plenty of death
Or for that matter: use Thallium, that is not even radioactive.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Yet with a dirty bomb attack the only people likely to benefit are those already in power by gaining more power as a result.
You obvously haven't read my pro-cockroach manifesto.
When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
LOL. You must realize this type of news channel on youtube could go viral, though one may already exist.
I truly think it offers spectacular perspective on the war against terror.
If only i wasn't AC and could offer the mod points.
"A dirty bomb wouldn't kill very many people, not directly, anyways (or at least not in the short term, although it'd raise the cancer rate considerably)"
There's fairly good evidence that you'd be hard-pressed to see a cancer rater rise of more than 1-2% above background levels.
Dirty bombs are ALL about terrorism.
The beta is awful, but it's the gamma that's the worst. Just ask the thieves. :(
Got them moderator blues I blieve I walk out the do', With these mod-points I been gettin', I 'most never post no mo'
The event shows that constructing a dirty bomb is summarily lethal for anyone trying to construct one and effectively undeliverable as a weapon.
Distribute a few kg Plutonium as a dirty bomb over a city and there is plenty of death ...
The long-term studies of people who have inhaled or ingested plutonium do not support this statement.
The mind boggles, you seriously think I am in a hurry to commit suicide or being stripped naked and tortured indefinitely or make a desperate escape to Russia (actually that's one's not that bad and would be quite interesting definitely far better then the other two USA options) . Oh yes, here it the link ':P' to the secret files of people quite content to commit mass murder to secure more power for government.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
The impact of a dirty bomb is more political and economic than immediately threatening to public health.
The people caught in a bomb blast may be injured but getting out of the contamination zone within an hour would leave a person with no long term health effects.
But, oh the cost of a large scale cleanup would be insane.
BTW.. what was stolen was Cobalt-60 which emits a hefty gamma but doesn't concentrate in internal organs. So, if you did breath or swallow any it would be irradiating the GI tract as it passes through. All gone in about 5 days.
You need at least 25000 milliRem exposure in a short period of time (within a day) before you start seeing detectable health effects. You don't start seeing the "radiation sickness" that movie reality would have you be life you get by walking near a source until you get to 100,000 milliRem in a one shot dose.
The current standard for the general public is that they will receive no more than 100 milliRem in a year from activities at a liscensed in a calendar year. I would expect this would be the criteria for a cleanup after a dirty bomb. (Trained nuclear workers are limited, by law, to 5000 milliRem in a calendar year)
What would that entail? MARSSIM guidelines would probably be used.
All porous materials removed... wood, fabric, etc. Concrete surfaces scabbbled down a minimum of 3/16 inch to remove surface conamination. All asphalt removed (asphalt has too much naturally occurring radioactive material in it to be able to certify free from contamination from a release). Final survey of 100% of potentially contaminated surfaces followed by a third party verification of final survey?
Where did I get this? NRC, DOE, and IAEA regulation and guidelines. Also, decades of decomissioning and remediation work on hazardous material facilities. One dirty bomb would cost millions to clean up.
But, Cobalt-60 isn't what one would pick for a dirty bomb. Co-60 is only a moderate hazard to people and actually easy to clean up. Hey, if it is on the floor you can get it up with a bucket and mop. Other nuclides are more flighty, make compounds that incorporate themselves into other things, etc.
A 1 minute dose close to 3000 Ci of Co-60 is intense enough to be 50% lethal within 2 weeks with medical care. The article mentioned a 30 second dose being 50% fatal -- its biology so it is not exact science. A five minute exposure is 100% lethal within 2-days. During that 5 minute exposure the victim would start vomiting, suffer seizures and spasms, and start losing mental faculties. This isn't a cancer in 10 year type of terror. This is almost immediate and monstrous.
I would not characterize the loss of Co-60 as Media FUD. There is some stuff on the planet that truly is scary.
The deadly dose for plutonium is somewhere around 5mg ... should be easy to google for. Plutonium is one of the most poisonous (besides its radioactivity) elements.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
If you know of a good source for that number, I would be interested. The studies I am aware of followed population groups who were exposed to it, as well as some people who were known to have inhaled or ingested it, and they do not support these statements. Ralph Nader famously stated that plutonium is the most dangerous substance on Earth, but this has been refuted many times over. Google turns up some good scientific articles that address this.
Seems the old data got reviced. Wikipedia talks now about a two digit number in milli grmas for the deadly dose (poison wise, heavy metal wise) for Plutonium, without giving any actual numbers.
However the deadly dose over a couple of years, due to incorporation of the "heavy metal" into the bone mark is: 40ng, that is nano grams, that means 40 millions of a gram is deadly due to its radiation and causing cancer/leukomy.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.