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France Broadens Surveillance Powers; Wider Scope Than NSA

Posted by timothy on from the touch-of-the-old-industrial-espionage dept.

krakman writes "With the NSA disclosures, French media was 'outraged'. Yet they appear to be worse than the NSA, with a new law that codifies standard practice and provides for no judicial oversight while allowing electronic surveillance for a broad range of purposes, including 'national security,' the protection of France's 'scientific and economic potential' and prevention of ;terrorism' or 'criminality.' The government argues that the law, passed last week with little debate as part of a routine military spending bill, which takes effect in 2015, does not expand intelligence powers. Rather, officials say, those powers have been in place for years, and the law creates rules where there had been none, notably with regard to real-time location tracking. French intelligence agencies have little experience publicly justifying their practices. Parliamentary oversight did not begin until 2007."

169 comments

  1. Support Freedom Box! by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 5, Informative

    https://freedomboxfoundation.org

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
    1. Re:Support Freedom Box! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Freedom Box Foundation is located in the US.

    2. Re:Support Freedom Box! by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2

      But the Freedom Box will be located in your home.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    3. Re:Support Freedom Box! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doesn't matter if I can't trust it, does it?

    4. Re:Support Freedom Box! by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1

      Eben Moglen is playing a pretty big role in this, and I feel like he would be someone who would stand on principle.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    5. Re:Support Freedom Box! by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      You don't trust GPL-ed code? Wait, did you just use sorcery to magically and securely post your comment, unlike us, puny mortals, who have to use some software?

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
  2. Cheese munching surrender-monkeys by amalcolm · · Score: -1

    Vive la France!

    --
    Time for bed, said Zebedee - boing
    1. Re:Cheese munching surrender-monkeys by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Suck it France!! Ha ha

  3. Islam by benjfowler · · Score: -1, Flamebait

    With 5-10% of the population of France being Muslim, that's a massive potential fifth column that potentially needs to be dealt with. I think this sends a message to the Muslims that any subversion will be swiftly detected and dealt with. Not such a bad thing, imho.

    I'd rather take the chance of mass surveillance being misused, than having a Muslim jackboot on my neck.

    1. Re:Islam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      That's because you're a stupid racist fuck.

    2. Re:Islam by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'd rather take the chance of mass surveillance being misused

      This sort of attitude is why we're rapidly losing freedom and privacy in some areas.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    3. Re:Islam by ColdWetDog · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You know, jackboots feel pretty much the same whether they're European or Muslim. Neither 'side' has a particularly defensible history. The harder question to answer is how effective a surveillance society actually is. Does monitoring every phone call, watching every street corner help you much?

      My guess, given the lack of examples the NSA / FBI / CIA have trotted out is that the answer is 'no'. I'd rather take the chance that somebody will 'slip through' rather than live in a police society. Even counting up every terrorist action everywhere, one doesn't create a particularly dangerous environment. If you want to be rational about this, you would first ban cars, alcohol, cigarettes, guns, knives, kitchen utensils and cell phones. They are arguably more dangerous than 'terrorists'.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    4. Re:Islam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      +1

    5. Re:Islam by motek · · Score: 2, Funny

      They feel much better when I am the one wearing them. That goes for pretty much all footwear, except perhaps stiletto heels.

      --
      I would like to die like my grandfather did - sleeping. And not screaming in terror, like his passengers.
    6. Re:Islam by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Non sequitur much? If a substantial portion (something between 30%-50%) of Muslims in France publicly profess that their loyalty to the Ummah is greater than their loyalty to they country they live in, given that French intelligence agencies probably follow the polls, I wouldn't fault them for profiling them out.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    7. Re:Islam by chill · · Score: 0

      That rules out a promising career as a stripper.

      --
      Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
    8. Re:Islam by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      A religion != a race, you thick fuck.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    9. Re:Islam by meerling · · Score: 2

      Christian Jackboot, Canadian Cork boots, Elvis's Blue Suede Shoes, etc, it doesn't really matter what footwear an oppressor wears, it's where he puts it.

      Besides that, it's not a chance that 'mass surveillance' will be misused by the government, it's only a matter of when.
      If it can be misused for the purposes of furthering political power, it will be, it's always been as simple as that.

    10. Re:Islam by cold+fjord · · Score: 0

      Could you list what the freedoms are that have been lost? Skip the privacy issues for now, just the freedoms lost, please?

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    11. Re:Islam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      We could start with the entire process of getting on an airplane. Due to my 4th amendment rights, I should be able to board a plane without being searched by a government agent unless there is reasonable suspicion that I'm committing a crime. If the airport's or airline's private security wishes to search me, that's between me and them as private entities.

      There's also the 100 mile zone where the Department of Homeland Security claims they don't need warrants for searches.
      http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2008/10/aclu-assails-10/

    12. Re:Islam by king+neckbeard · · Score: 2

      Cops are more likely to kill you than terrorists, and apparently only about 20% of that 5-10% go to mosques regularly. That means it's 1-2% of the population are moderately religious, let alone zealots. It's also probably a safe bet that at least 75% of the zealots within that subpopulation are zealots because bigoted asshats like you want to 'send a message' that feeds the persecution complex that breeds the very zealotry that you cower before.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    13. Re:Islam by mc6809e · · Score: 2

      Is Islam a race now?

    14. Re:Islam by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      This isn't about terrorists. Sure, that factors into it, but under this law, the police can now get access to surveillance information. No judicial oversight necessary.

      They can do it for economic reasons, which means spying on foreign companies. That might be more advantageous to the average French than counterterrorism.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    15. Re:Islam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      -2

      Islam is not a race, it's a religion.

    16. Re:Islam by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      > A religion != a race, you thick fuck.

      Right. The real problem here is the use of the word racist instead of bigot. He totally deserved to be called a thick fuck for mixing up two faces of the same coin. The actual bigotry, that's not a problem.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    17. Re:Islam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, there is no actual freedom being lost then when boarding an airplane since you are still free to travel. The searches for boarding an airplane go back about 40-50 years. They are completely legal and don't infringe on your 4th amendment rights. That has been decided legally long ago. So, you're either wrong or confused.

      As to the immigration enforcement actions, from your link:

      ACLU Assails 100-Mile Border Zone as ‘Constitution-Free’ – Update

      DHS spokesman Jason Ciliberti says the ACLU’s description of the zone as "Constitution-Free" couldn’t be further from the truth and that the check points follow rules set by Supreme Court rulings.

      "We don’t have the abilitty to just set up checkpoints willy-nilly," Ciliberti said. "The Supreme Court has determined that brief investigative encontuers do not constitute a serach or seizure."

      So, it looks like you're both free to travel, as before, and wrong again. And the interesting thing is that these are both minor impositions on privacy, not freedoms lost.

      So it looks like so far nobody is listing any actual freedoms lost. Typical. Much outcry, little outcome.

    18. Re:Islam by Wrath0fb0b · · Score: 1

      You should really start referring to them as "my opinions of how the 4th amendment works". As far as I can tell, not a single practicing or academic legal authority has ever endorsed this construction.

      Now, of course, it's a free country -- you can represent your views however you want. But you don't get to pick your facts and you definitely don't get to reinterpret the law just because you don't like it (hellooo segregationists).

    19. Re:Islam by Mister+Liberty · · Score: 1

      So you concur on the 'racist fuck'.

    20. Re:Islam by Arker · · Score: 1

      A great many have indeed endorsed this strange 'theory' that the fourth amendment means what it says; and Judge Andrew Napolitano comes immediately to mind so here you go.

      --
      =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
      Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
    21. Re:Islam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, there is no actual freedom being lost then when boarding an airplane since you are still free to travel.

      No, I am actually not. Depending on the outcome of the search or if my name is on some secret list I no longer have the freedom to travel.

    22. Re:Islam by dryeo · · Score: 1

      Free speech is the big one. As long as the government is listening in on your conversations it puts a damper on speech, especially political speech. Want to run for office? It's much harder to win when the opposition can listen in on all your strategy sessions.
      The right to fundamental justice is another one. The prosecution listening in on client lawyer conversations gives the prosecution an unfair advantage.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    23. Re:Islam by gman003 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Have you ever been an immigrant? Ever seriously talked to one? They left their home country for a reason - as often as not, because they have an oppressive autocracy, theocracy or dictatorship. They tend to love their new country more than their old, and why not? You love France because you were born there by random chance. They love it because they looked at every country in the world, and decided France was the best one to emigrate to.

      So immigrants tend to embrace their new culture. Most people who fled Soviet Bloc countries turned into ardent haters of communism - why wouldn't people who fled Muslim theocracies turn out to be pretty ardent haters of Muslim theocracies? They may keep the religion, but in a more moderate, modern form instead of the controlling throwback currently dominant in the Arab region.

      And those are first-generation immigrants. What about their children? They'll raise them Muslim, of course, but they'll raise them *French*. They'll be well-educated and (knowing children) liberal. They'll hear the stories about how bad the home country was, and unless their new country does something to disillusion them (like your racist shitspouting) they'll be patriotic for *that* country, not some country they've never been to and hear only bad things about.

      Since you call them the "Fifth Column", look at the supposed Japanese "Fifth Column". According to US Army reports from the time, most Japanese immigrants were Americans first, and the concentration camps not only went against the best intelligence, but was outright counterproductive, turning Japanese-Americans against America. And then look up the 442nd Infantry Regiment - Japanese-Americans fighting for America in WW2. With 3800 members, they earned nearly 9500 Purple Hearts (severely wounded or killed in action), 4000 Bronze Stars (acts of heroism or merit in combat) and 21 Medals of Honor (the absolute highest award in the US military). Oh, and they fought many of their battle in France - your country, in a small part, owes its current non-fascist existence to immigrants fighting against allies of their native land on behalf of a country that imprisoned their families for the very logic you support.

      If you are an example of the other 90-95% of France, I think your country might be better off if you do let the Muslims take over. I know my fair share of people of that religion, and none of them are as reactionary and racist as you seem to be.

    24. Re:Islam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One of the central jobs of a state is to protect it people by any means necessary and then some that aren't. They are supposed to be extremely partisan when doing this. Part of it's job is to spy and spy like it is going out of style. If you can't trust your state to spy for your best interests perhapes it is time to move to another state. Take for an example two countries. One China and one the United States. Being a U.Sian I have not problem what so ever with the NSA. Intelligence has saved lives. Lives that you will never know about due to the classification. I do wonder why Snowden isn't dead yet. On the other hand I object to the way our politicians have been bought out to the highest bidder. I can say this about China at least their politicians and secret service societies look after the best interest of China. The politicians and secret service societies of the USA also look after the best interests of China. I am glad France is at least looking after the best interest of France. France helped us out in our Revolution. People in my country are brainwashed. Really why is it patriotic to fight a decades long war against a tactict and to bomb the hell out of 2 countries that had nothing to do with 9-11. (all financed by China), when you can't even keep illegal Mexicans (sorry Latinos) out of the coutry. Really. How many people died on 9-11. How many people have lost jobs due to illegal labor and drugs flooding across the border.

      My politicians no longer care about U.Sians. They do care about Mexicans, Equadorians, and the Chinese (anyone who will give them a buck or support them finanicially). Time to move.

      When the Mongols came across great wall into China to enslave it's population, they didn't have to lay seige to the wall; They just bribed the gate keepers. I think a similar thing is happening to my country. History repeats on infinatum, and people never learn.

    25. Re:Islam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're an American citizen, there are 50,000 or so laws on the books that apply to you, by the time you count Federal, state, and local ordinances. You broke two or three of them before you got out of bed this morning, as did I. The only question is, which laws "count?"

      The answer to that question tends to change over time.

    26. Re:Islam by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And those are first-generation immigrants. What about their children?

      That's actually the interesting question here. First-generation immigrants from Muslim countries in Europe are exactly how you've described above - they tend to appreciate and support the increased freedom of their new society. Their kids, for some mysterious reason, not so much. All the extremist Sharia BS is much more popular among Muslim second- and third-generation immigrant youth than it is among their parents. That's where you get those insane numbers from, like 20% of youth in favor of Islamic law in UK.

      Perhaps it is because they don't know how life has actually been where they came from, while on the other hand there's a Saudi-funded and trained Salafi preacher in the nearby mosque who tells them epic stories about heroic mujahideen fighting the forces of Satan. One thing that our free societies aren't particularly good at, is immunizing people against aggressive brainwashing by professionals who know very well which strings to pull.

      I honestly don't know why European countries don't put an absolute ban on any travel by Saudi clerics to their territory. That alone would cut forced radicalization of their youth significantly. Better yet, embargo KSA completely, and destroy it by economic means (which, due to the structure of their economy, is very feasible). Not only is that country breeding terrorism in our societies, but their own society is so retrograde and oppressive that it rivals North Korea. Dismantling it is both in our interests, and in the interests of most of their people (other than the ruling elite).

    27. Re:Islam by cold+fjord · · Score: 1, Troll

      The question isn't what the 4th Amendment says, but what does it mean, how does it apply legally under the given circumstances? There are many searches that the courts have found that require no warrant, boarding a plane is among them, along with sobriety checkpoints, and border crossings. Beyond that, there is the issue of Article II powers and how they play into this. Napolitano takes no notice of this issue, but the courts have, and it has a role, not to mention actions by Congress involving Article II questions.

      You many notice that "Judge" Napolitano is no longer sitting on the bench, so he can spin whatever fanciful theory he cares to. The question is, would it hold up before a court? I think the answer is "No" in his case, otherwise he would be moving a suit forward on his theory. He apparently knows this, and that it would be political suicide since he would be shown to be engaging in nonsense, legally. Politically it's very nice.

      But, if you like Napolitano, you may like this one too. Unfortunately he gets the question of law wrong, overlooking this document which he chooses to ignore for some reason, and it is highly relevant.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    28. Re:Islam by cold+fjord · · Score: 0, Troll

      There is no evidence that I can think of that suggests that the government is using the intelligence agencies to monitor political speech and distribute that to the detriment of political opposition. It is a fantasy.

      Do you have any evidence of the prosecution listening in on any attorney-client conversations for the purpose of affecting the outcome of the trial? The only remotely similar cases that I'm aware of are a small handful of instances involving terrorism prosecutions at Gitmo, and I don't believe that the prosecution was involved, IIRC.

      You post is more "what if" than actual problem.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    29. Re:Islam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I doubt that anyone is being denied a chance to fly for cutting the tags off their mattress.

    30. Re:Islam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does monitoring every phone call, watching every street corner help you much?

      Everyone knows Big Brother can't monitor everyone all the time. He doesn't need to. The trick is you never know when Big Brother is listening.
      The witches... they were never real witches. Still, they burn well, don't they?

    31. Re:Islam by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      One of the central jobs of a state is to protect it people by any means necessary and then some that aren't.

      No, it's not. The constitution is the highest law of the land, and any powers not given to the government are not powers the government has. The government can't violate people's rights to give them 'safety'.

      If you can't trust your state to spy for your best interests perhapes it is time to move to another state.

      Selfish nonsense. I believe they should only spy against explicit enemies. Perhaps you only care about things that benefit you, but I don't want government thugs spying on random people and people in my country.

      Being a U.Sian I have not problem what so ever with the NSA.

      Not going to say it again.

      Intelligence has saved lives. Lives that you will never know about due to the classification.

      And yet you're gullible enough to believe these thugs even when they don't provide any evidence of such a thing. How naive. Even if they did save lives, though, it's irrelevant for reasons I've already stated.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    32. Re:Islam by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 4, Insightful

      So, there is no actual freedom being lost then when boarding an airplane since you are still free to travel.

      Just like freedom of speech isn't being infringed upon if you force people into a free speech zone; they're still allowed to speak, after all! Let's apply this logic to an entire city: If you live in a certain city, you sign away your fourth amendment rights and give the government permission to search you whenever they please. Don't like it? Move. You still have that freedom, so it's okay!

      The searches for boarding an airplane go back about 40-50 years.

      That's utterly irrelevant, and the TSA wasn't molesting people 40-50 years ago.

      They are completely legal and don't infringe on your 4th amendment rights.

      If you need a court to tell you how to think, then you're nothing more than a mindless drone. It's sad how people in a country that was founded on a distrust of government put so much trust in the government and even allow it to control how they think.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    33. Re:Islam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look, just because you're essentially brain dead and need to appeal to authority figures to find out what you should think, that doesn't mean we're all like that. I see courts that make rulings like this as what they are: Complicit in the crimes against freedom.

    34. Re:Islam by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      As far as I can tell, not a single practicing or academic legal authority has ever endorsed this construction.

      Why would that be? Because they are complicit in the crimes against the American people. The correct interpretations of the fourth amendment are ignored because they do not provide as much power to the government. To me, these are blatant violations of the fourth amendment, but I wouldn't expect bootlickers like cold fjord to understand that.

      But you don't get to pick your facts and you definitely don't get to reinterpret the law just because you don't like it (hellooo segregationists).

      Much like courts' interpretations aren't magically automatically correct. Of course, if you need an authority figure to tell you how to think in the land of the free and the home of the brave, you've already lost.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    35. Re:Islam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is no evidence that I can think of that suggests that the government is using the intelligence agencies to monitor political speech and distribute that to the detriment of political opposition. It is a fantasy.

      So, what are you doing here?

    36. Re:Islam by torsmo · · Score: 1

      All the extremist Sharia BS is much more popular among Muslim second- and third-generation immigrant youth.

      Case in point, Anjem Chaudhary. It seems his tafsir is quite popular among the muslim youth in Britain.

    37. Re:Islam by X-chan · · Score: 2

      So immigrants tend to embrace their new culture. Most people who fled Soviet Bloc countries turned into ardent haters of communism - why wouldn't people who fled Muslim theocracies turn out to be pretty ardent haters of Muslim theocracies? They may keep the religion, but in a more moderate, modern form instead of the controlling throwback currently dominant in the Arab region.

      And those are first-generation immigrants. What about their children? They'll raise them Muslim, of course, but they'll raise them *French*. They'll be well-educated and (knowing children) liberal. They'll hear the stories about how bad the home country was, and unless their new country does something to disillusion them (like your racist shitspouting) they'll be patriotic for *that* country, not some country they've never been to and hear only bad things about.



      Immigrants embrace the new culture when they have to, which isn't the case anymore, since they're more than enough to build their own communities. You can live in France without speaking french, without eating french food, without dressing like french people, without knowing french history or any part of french culture, and then wonder why you can't blend with french people. Muslims are also actively pushing for their religion into the public life, in a country where religion is becoming more and more a private thing. And for their children it's even worse, they won't have any chance to try to integrate because their parents already put them outside french society, and if their parents can't teach them proper french, they'll struggle in school, pushing them further away. And you end up with african flags used instead of french flags when celebrating, among other things, which isn't really patriotic (well it is, but not for France).

      Without calling them a fifth column, you'd have to be deluded to believe the muslims are well integrated in France. It's not their fault though, problem lies with the immigration policy which allowed too many people in without caring about their insertion into french society which is very different from the one they came from.
    38. Re:Islam by phlinn · · Score: 1

      Three possibilities come to mind: Excessive youth unemployment, general tendencies to rebel against their parents, and regression to mean. The parents may be exceptionally free thinkers for their country of origin, but their children probably won't be. I would bet that 20% support you mentioned is higher in the populace that actually lives in a theocratic country. The youth unemployment rate in France is apparently about 22 percent, but I suppose it's a matter of opinion as to whether that's excessive or not.

      --
      "Pulling together is the aim of despotism and tyranny! Free men pull in all sorts of directions" -- Havelock Vetinari
    39. Re:Islam by tnk1 · · Score: 1

      Is anyone actually being held back by this, though? The fact that you might be a crack addict who sleeps with interns while hanging out with crime lords is something that can easily be found out by the news media anyway. If you are that sort of person to begin with, perhaps you shouldn't be in government.

      What information is the NSA going to provide that is going to cause problems for legitimately non-criminal candidates? You don't need the NSA to frame someone.

    40. Re:Islam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The searches for boarding an airplane go back about 40-50 years

      I think you're biting a troll, he certainly knows that's a baldfaced god damned lie. No point in responding to the moron. The last time I was on an airplane was 30 years ago and there wasn't even a metal detector, you walked up to the counter, paid your cash for your ticket, got on the plane ane flew. Hell, back in the '70s when I was in the USAF and flew on a lot of airlines you could smoke on a plane.

      The troll you bit certainly knew that the shit all started with government being terrorizes on 9-11-1

    41. Re:Islam by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nothing to hide, nothing to fear, then? Really? You don't see how this can be used to silence dissenters and people who oppose the government? This isn't merely about framing someone, but about finding targets to destroy.

      I seriously can't believe you essentially said, "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear." How naive can you be? The EFF, the ACLU, and other organizations are up in arms about this for a reason, but there's no end to people like you who try to trivialize this very serious, very unconstitutional spying.

    42. Re:Islam by tnk1 · · Score: 1

      Don't mistake being regularly "religious" for being a candidate for terrorism. Most of these "jihadis" become full-on religious only fairly late in the process. I'm less worried about the regular mosque-goers than I am about fairly recent converts or the kids brought up Islamic, but who didn't care about it until they were lured in by extremist recruiters. The more you are educated about a particular religion, the less chance they can pull the wool over your eyes with their radicalized version of that religion.

    43. Re:Islam by Wrath0fb0b · · Score: 1

      Yeah, why should we trust judges when they explain the law? And what's with these pesky biologists trying to explain biology. And don't get me started on mathematicians telling me that I'm doing matrix multiplication wrong! And historians! Talking about history!

      Anti-intellectualism at its finest.

    44. Re:Islam by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      Yeah, why should we trust judges when they explain the law?

      Why should we trust judges to be automatically correct when they interpret a document that was written in plain English in a way that gives the government (which they are part of) more power? The Supreme Court overruled itself in the past. Would you believe everything they say? Do you not have a mind of your own?

      Fact is, I read the constitution and I don't see where such ridiculous interpretations make any sense whatsoever.

      Anti-intellectualism at its finest.

      Authority worship at its finest. In fact, I'd say it's more like anti-intellectualism when you believe everything an authority figure has to say.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    45. Re:Islam by cheekyjohnson · · Score: 1

      It's sad that some people living in a country founded on a distrust of government need authority figures to tell them how to think.

      --
      Filthy, filthy copyrapists!
    46. Re:Islam by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      You can't change your race, so it's a bit unfair to bag on people over it. Same with spackers.

      However religion is your choice, so it's a perfectly valid basis for criticism, especially if you choose a stupid one.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    47. Re:Islam by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 1

      However religion is your choice, so it's a perfectly valid basis for criticism, especially if you choose a stupid one.

      So any criticism about something the person can change is not bigotry. How convenient for all the assholes of the world.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
  4. Thanks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Now everybody wants what the NSA has, and the next time someone brings up human rights, every dictator will brush off the criticism, and will be JUSTIFIED in doing so.

    1. Re:Thanks by lennier1 · · Score: 2

      It's already going on on a smaller scale.
      After the US, Germany and a few other countries have adopted the concept of "Free Speech Zones" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zone ) the Russians are now planning to do the same: http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-protest-zone-at-2014-sochi-olympics-20131210,0,7900728.story#axzz2n6VNDMNf

    2. Re:Thanks by eric_herm · · Score: 1

      Technically, dictators didn't really care that much in the past either way. They do ignore criticism in all case.

    3. Re:Thanks by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 1

      I seriously doubt that even the French would record and store all telephone conversations made in and via France. Quite apart from the cost, only the American executive class could be do dystopianly gauche.

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
  5. Goddamnit by Luke+has+no+name · · Score: 1

    I was hoping that if I ever expatriate, France would have been a good choice.

    1. Re:Goddamnit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Haha, just no. People are arrested in France because they wear red hats, or pink t-shirts or badges with political messages. You also can get fined if you utter politically incorrect words. You know it's really bad when the far-right nutcases and their "Socialism = Nazi !" outcries become facts.

    2. Re:Goddamnit by schnell · · Score: 4, Funny

      Don't worry. Knowing the French, they will just use these expanded surveillance powers searching for and punishing users of forbidden "franglais" terms. Violators will be captured by SWAT teams wearing stylish berets and ascots, then locked in solitary confinement to read "The Little Prince" over and over again for as long as it takes until the next time the jailers go on strike.

      --
      "95% of all Slashdot .sig quotes are incorrect or completely fabricated." -Benjamin Franklin
    3. Re:Goddamnit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then if the forbidden term users criticize them for their treatment, numerous simultaneous bomb attacks will happen all over the world targeting Green Peace boats and ships. The attacks are streamed real time and show to the forbidden term users to puzzle them into silence. Silence by Puzzlement, the signature move of the French special forces till the fourth republic.

    4. Re:Goddamnit by Vitriol+Angst · · Score: 2

      Are you complaining about such a system or just jealous?

      In the defense of French secret services -- they were only collecting the MIME-TYPES of the messages. For instance, you Mime might be caught in an invisible box, or being swept away by an invisible wind. Find out the type of mime, makes a big difference but doesn't involve personal information.

      --
      >>"ad space available -- low rates!!!"
    5. Re:Goddamnit by lsatenstein · · Score: 1

      Don't worry. Knowing the French, they will just use these expanded surveillance powers searching for and punishing users of forbidden "franglais" terms. Violators will be captured by SWAT teams wearing stylish berets and ascots, then locked in solitary confinement to read "The Little Prince" over and over again for as long as it takes until the next time the jailers go on strike.

      And the province of Quebec, Canada will follow suite.

      --
      Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
  6. THE Slippery Slope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I once read that Osama Bin Laden wanted to turn the Western World into the surveillance - no free zone - society - that he knew in the Arab World. Like in our "ally" Saudi Arabia.

    Well, he succeeded. He was a genius at political strategy. The politicians of the World and the very very vocal minorities who support them only enable these brilliant genius strategists.

    I admire it. Not because of their goals but because of how well they have manipulated people. And to the "security people" monitoring this, your fucking loser overpaid jobs - Google Marketing is BETTER than you - losers.

    Everyone - I mean ALL - are profiting one way or another off of this. We are in the age of power grabbing scumbags.

    THey are all scumbags.

    Everyone.

    Religious, political, economic, business .. you name it - it's all a power grab.

    Ignore it all people!

  7. European Union flag by manu0601 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This summary displays the European Union flag

    As a french citizen, I am getting more and more upset to see the European flag used instead of France's one for stories about France. 10 years ago I was very fond of the EU, but now I realized EU is not a democracy and I am not a EU citizen. It is quite the contrary, as EU project is to destroy democracy.

    I wish Slashdot could add a logo for France, even something full of clichés, it will make me more comfortable.

    1. Re:European Union flag by VortexCortex · · Score: 0

      Why? If TFA is anything to go buy you'll be changing the flag soon anyway... right?

    2. Re:European Union flag by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

      I wish Slashdot could add a logo for France, even something full of clichés, it will make me more comfortable.

      Like a white flag? I kid, I kid, France fought a fair number of wars.

    3. Re:European Union flag by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just wait, it's going to be much better once we have teared down all borders and made English the only official language.

    4. Re:European Union flag by prefec2 · · Score: 1

      As an EU citizen you could try to change the institution. However, it is easier to whine about it. And honestly, in most cases things coming down from the EU are planted there by the governments of the member state, so the bad things you talk about are actually from your government.

      BTW: France is part of the EU as much as Germany or the Netherlands, therefore it is only fair to summarize all these countries with the EU flag, just like US states are all summarized by the US flag. Yes we are not that one country as the US is, but it is very close.

    5. Re:European Union flag by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      If it makes you feel better: Note the page background. French flag.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    6. Re:European Union flag by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As french citizen I do not agree with this.
      There are legislative elections for MEPs, and while the executive power is not direct democracy (yet they do derive their power from democracy), that should not affect how you feel about the EU citizenship. It's like saying that you don't feel french because you don't agree with the 5th Republic's institutions.

    7. Re:European Union flag by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

      Oh you are an EU "citizen". You just didn't realize the EU definition of citizen differs substantially from your own.

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    8. Re:European Union flag by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is quite the contrary, as EU project is to destroy democracy.

      [Citation needed]

    9. Re:European Union flag by manu0601 · · Score: 2

      You know the European Parliament is parody of a parliament right? The MEP we elect cannot propose a EU directive (only the commission can). They do not have the last word in law making, as the commission can strip the amendments voted by the parliament.The EU parliament only real power is to reject a directive, but that can happen only where it is involved, and for many fields, the EU parliament is not involved at all.

      MEP also do not say their word on EU budget. And of course they have to operate within the bounds of EU treaties, where most of the economic policy is hard coded. In fact a MEP is mostly useless, except perhaps to inform the public about what is going on. And even on that front, there are issues. MEP have not seen the commission mandate for the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership.

    10. Re:European Union flag by manu0601 · · Score: 1

      In this thread

    11. Re:European Union flag by GPLHost-Thomas · · Score: 2

      As an EU citizen you could try to change the institution.

      Are you one of these scumbags paid by the European Parliament to troll on forums? Of course one can try though with the current system, it's doomed to failure.

      BTW: France is part of the EU as much as Germany or the Netherlands, therefore it is only fair to summarize all these countries with the EU flag, just like US states are all summarized by the US flag. Yes we are not that one country as the US is, but it is very close.

      This is not the united states of Europe. Nobody wants that in Europe (I mean, as in, the people doesn't want this, at least anymore). There's more and more sovereign movements raising, and they will get even stronger as time passes. So, it has never been, and never will be fair to replace the flags of individual countries (did you notice I didn't use the word state?) by the European flag.

    12. Re:European Union flag by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is the model of democrature pioneered by East Germany. A parlament, where all parties are allowed! You can vote for anyone. But the parlament has no power... just that the political system is made so complicated so the common voter will not understand.

    13. Re:European Union flag by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As an EU citizen you could try to change the institution

      The EU is mostly lead by the European Commission, as a EU citizen I have no say on who sits in there. As a citizen of a country located in the EU I see my politicians push more and more power to the EU (under control of the non democratic Commission) in the name of a "free and unified" EU. Later the same politicians come back and excuse every unwanted and hated change with the fact that it is now within the jurisdiction of the EU to mandate it and they (our elected representatives) cannot do anything against the decisions made by the EU( non elected commission). Yes the EU also has a parliament, but that only exists to add a second level of blame every time something against the voters will is pushed out (it is also modelled in a way that violates the all votes are equal part of a democracy to an extreme degree giving smaller countries greater standing than larger countries) .

    14. Re:European Union flag by peragrin · · Score: 1

      Actually from what I have seen Europe is slowly turning into the united European states. It won't be this generation or the next but when the current kids are running the show It will be talked about more openly.

      First comes money sharing, then power sharing, and finally people sharing. as people are more inclined to move around for jobs over time the viewpoint no one wants a united europe will slowly fall to the side.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    15. Re:European Union flag by Xest · · Score: 1

      You can't cite your own comment, that's not how it works.

    16. Re:European Union flag by manu0601 · · Score: 1

      Can you say something in that comment is wrong?

    17. Re:European Union flag by Xest · · Score: 1

      It doesn't matter if it even is right or wrong, the point is you need to provide a citation that the EU project is designed to destroy democracy which is what you claim.

      It could just as well be that the EU project is an imperfect system that needs some improvements in some areas.

      You're claiming it's intentional that the EU works against democracy, you need to prove that claim. How do you know it's intentional? where is your evidence that it's intentional?

      All you've done is cite a few examples where it isn't as democratic as it should be, that doesn't prove that that's it's overriding goal though.

    18. Re:European Union flag by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 1

      As an EU citizen you could try to change the institution.

      But he's not an EU citizen. He's French. The only people who can claim in any sense to be "EU Citizens" are the various political classes across the continent. They (mis)manage, decide and direct the operation of their own countries and the EU in general, in the direction they choose, with or without the consent or support of their general populations.

      As un-democratic as that sounds, in the post-war period this attitude among the EU political/executive classes did a lot of good: It stopped the Europeans from fighting one another.

      However, like all elitist enterprises, the EU was inevitably taken over by vested interests. Right now, the EU's principal purpose is to facilitate the transfer of wealth from the general population to the financial/banking class. In a few years, this may still be the case, or general wealth will be going to some other group, but the essential principle is that because the EU is not a democracy it will operate for the benefit of whichever group currently controls it.

      --
      May the Maths Be with you!
    19. Re:European Union flag by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      This is not the united states of Europe. Nobody wants that in Europe (I mean, as in, the people doesn't want this, at least anymore). There's more and more sovereign movements raising, and they will get even stronger as time passes. So, it has never been, and never will be fair to replace the flags of individual countries (did you notice I didn't use the word state?) by the European flag.

      Give it time. That description is very much like the USA pre-civil war when a person's nationality was more often described by their home state rather than as the USA. Then, there will be a crisis that will come along and make or break the EU (many people are looking at the current Euro currency things going on). It could fall the way you want, but then it could fall the other way also.

    20. Re:European Union flag by manu0601 · · Score: 1

      Okay, you are right : I cannot prove it is intentional, that is just my own opinion.

      But OTOH, the EU being no democracy is a fact, and we can see it moving toward less and less control from the People : is is getting more and more antidemocratic over the time.

      Therefore, if this is not intentional, that mean EU leaders are very mediocre professionnals. We should fire them ASAP. Um... Too bad we cannot!

  8. Voltaire by flyingfsck · · Score: 1

    As Voltaire so eloquently put it: écrasez l'infâme!

    --
    Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
    1. Re:Voltaire by icebike · · Score: 1

      Crush any law that provides for no judicial oversight.

      I've learned we can't trust our own judges not to knuckle under to government pressure. Still, when you start out by denying judicial oversight, there is no chance or unringing that bell.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
  9. spying != surveillance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    At least in France you know you are being watched. There is a slight difference.

    1. Re:spying != surveillance by dugancent · · Score: 2

      If you are referring to the USA, we know we are being watched. It's in the news every day.

      --
      SJWs are the new boogeyman. -Me
  10. There are no "good guy" countries here by wumbler · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I think what we have learned is that given the opportunity, no country's intelligence/police/security apparatus is truly more ethical than that of other countries. There's a huge difference between cheap, public words spoken by politicians and what's really going on behind the scenes. If they have the technical option, they will collect and spy and monitor whatever they can.

    The NSA gets a bad rap, since (a) it has access to most information and thus is most scary and (b) in the US there is the constitution, which at least in principle should curtail certain government activities, giving critics something to use in their fight. In other countries there often aren't the constitutional documents, which aim to codify personal freedoms and liberties in the same way. Therefore, in the US the surveillance opponents at least have a document in their support that they can point at, while the same people in other countries often have no such thing. In that respect, the surveillance debate in the US could be more forceful with at least some ammunition for the opponents. In this regard, other countries aren't that lucky.

    However, in the end it's all academic: Surveillance/intelligence agencies will do whatever they damn well feel like doing. Whatever local laws they have will matter little. These are agencies that have secrecy baked into their DNA. They know - for the most part - to keep their activities away from the public and also the politicians for that matter.

    Pass whatever laws you want, it won't matter anymore.

    1. Re:There are no "good guy" countries here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think what we have learned is that given the opportunity, no country's intelligence/police/security apparatus is truly more ethical than that of other countries. There's a huge difference between cheap, public words spoken by politicians and what's really going on behind the scenes. If they have the technical option, they will collect and spy and monitor whatever they can.

      Well, time to move to Italy then. It's the old joke: in heaven, the Germans are engineers, the French cooks, the Italians lovers and the British policemen.

      In hell, the Germans are lovers, the French policemen, the Italians engineers, and the British cooks.

    2. Re:There are no "good guy" countries here by msobkow · · Score: 2

      Other countries do have things like Canada's "Charter of Rights" section of our Constitution. Just because the US is famous for it's Constitution doesn't mean other countries don't have them.

      However, unless/until the leaks come out to document that our nations are involved in spying similar to the NSA, it's not like the agencies in question are going to respond to a FOI request as to whether they're spying within a nation's boundaries or not. While I'm comfortable that CSEC isn't spying within Canada, I know all too well that bi-lateral security agreements mean that the various agencies just "outsource" their spying to partners.

      We still get spied on.

      There is no escape.

      Anywhere.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    3. Re:There are no "good guy" countries here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wish USA fascists would stop using this loggical fallacy. It's the same as OJ trying not evade jail time by saying to the judge: I murder, but there are other murderers. So stop prosecuting me, you hypocrites.

      So why are you trying to talk right the outrageous behavior of your fascist government of a country which has turned into the most evil country on earth? Are you a n NSA pig? Are you a fascist cunt who right-talks massive spying and a transformation of society into 1984? You are now the enemy. Thank you for showing your feathers, cunt.

      Start with the core of this problem, and it's the USA and what it has become. Then talk about smaller countries.

    4. Re:There are no "good guy" countries here by flyingfsck · · Score: 0

      Uhmm, the USA is not famous for it's constitution. The USA is famous for being the last country to abolish slavery and requiring a civil war to do so.

      --
      Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
    5. Re:There are no "good guy" countries here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Canada does indeed have its Charter of Rights. But that Charter does not even list the right to own private property. I was amazed during the original debates how much of Canadian intellectual society was adamantly against the idea that owning property should be a right.
      So, while Canada's an admirable country in many ways, formal protection of rights of its citizens is perhaps not one of them. Canada's a nice country by habit, not by obligation.

    6. Re:There are no "good guy" countries here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In other countries there often aren't the constitutional documents, which aim to codify personal freedoms and liberties in the same way.

      Of course there are, the documents just goes by another name so they aren't translated in a way that you associate with constitutional documents.
      Just because you are ignorant of them doesn't mean that they don't exist.

    7. Re:There are no "good guy" countries here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      " ...in the US there is the constitution, which at least in principle should curtail certain government activities, giving critics something to use in their fight. In other countries there often aren't the constitutional documents..."

      What this really means is that in the US the NSA folks are CRIMINALS and TRAITORS while in other countries we may disagree with what the government folks are doing but we can't factually say anything more about the what OUGHT to happen to them. But here in the US we have criminals and traitors, but they aren't being prosecuted. So that means we also have folks upto and specifically including the President who are notoriously aiding and abetting -- ergo, also criminals and traitors. And where are the police during all this? Oh...aiding and abetting, too....

      I think you were trying to make the case that other governments are no better than ours but you actually made the case that ours is considerably worse.

    8. Re:There are no "good guy" countries here by msobkow · · Score: 1

      But that's why our civil forfeiture laws don't have to break our constitution to be enforced. If you don't have the right to own property, it can be seized.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    9. Re:There are no "good guy" countries here by msobkow · · Score: 1

      It also means children under legal age can't sign purchase contracts. In the US, there could be an argument that even a child has the right to make purchases.

      --
      I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    10. Re:There are no "good guy" countries here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually there are a few countries that come after the US. There may be some arguments as to whether some of the Commonwealth of the British Empire count as Brittan not having it legally abolished all the way. So it kind of Depends on how you look at this.

      In the mean time, there is one we call all agree is Major and is after the end of the US, that would be China, 1910 is when they Abolished it.

  11. Misleading title? by Murdoc · · Score: 1

    So the new law expands their surveillance powers, or doesn't, and just adds more rules for them. Could someone please explain which it is for those of us without access to TFA? I really hope this isn't typical American anti-French bias.

    --
    Our ignorance is not so vast as our failure to use what we know. - M. King Hubbert
    1. Re:Misleading title? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is /.

      Anything pro-American will get modded into oblivion, while any wisecracks about "US-ians" will be +5 insightful.

    2. Re:Misleading title? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shouldn't you be out smoking meth and racing tractors?

    3. Re:Misleading title? by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Here is the score: they just legalized much more spying than the French people thought was happening. And in their surprised defense they've admitted this is all already being done, and that prior to this French intelligence, and even law enforcement, were believed by the French government to have unlimited powers.

    4. Re:Misleading title? by Murdoc · · Score: 1

      Thanks for helping me out, but it's still confusing. If they've "admitted" that this was all already being done, how can they have legalized more? Or is it that they are just claiming that it was all being done before, trying to make it look like nothing has changed when it really has?

      --
      Our ignorance is not so vast as our failure to use what we know. - M. King Hubbert
    5. Re:Misleading title? by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      This is /. Just like "it's ok if Google does it", the thinking is "it's okay if EUians do it".

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    6. Re:Misleading title? by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      Shouldn't you be out smoking meth and racing tractors?

      You forgot to mention intimate relations with close family members.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
    7. Re:Misleading title? by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Because this is the first time they admitted what was going on.

  12. Wider scope by gmuslera · · Score: 2

    After the NSA covering the world, whats left? Spying on cows? They must be attacking us farting all the way to global warming.

    1. Re:Wider scope by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Here in Switzerland, cows have almost achieved "personhood" - they are the most highly revered animal of all.
      So even spying on a cow would seem normal now, since http://www.20min.ch/ro/news/suisse/story/Le-natel--nouvel-espion-de-la-police-28343960 the Swiss police are campaigning for a new law allowing them to monitor anyone's mobile phone (natel) without a warrant. Any time.
      They snoop with an http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMSI-catcher.
      Fucking fascists are everywhere now...

  13. Outraged? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Are they really outraged? We know the French can get barricades-and-guillotines outraged, or at least their forebearors could.

    Or is this more "I shall say snippy things at parties?"

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    1. Re:Outraged? by couchslug · · Score: 1

      " We know the French can get barricades-and-guillotines outraged, or at least their forebearors could."

      So could ours. Now we are far too comfortable to fight.

      --
      "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
    2. Re:Outraged? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2

      Now we are far too comfortable to fight.

      Speaking of which, Owell vs. Huxley.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    3. Re:Outraged? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      " We know the French can get barricades-and-guillotines outraged, or at least their forebearors could."

      So could ours. Now we are far too comfortable to fight.

      A whole bunch of Americans are also too fat to fight...

    4. Re:Outraged? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The French political system traditionally involves street-demostration-cum-riot-level protest a lot more often than most other countries, definitely more often than America's.

      Generally, controversial measures get passed into law before most people even know about them. Then, if enough people care, there are street demos with options on violence, which are contained rather than put down by police. Then the law gets changed to something more acceptable.

      It's the common French pattern, in contrast to the US system where laws are discussed ad nauseam in public before they get passed.

    5. Re:Outraged? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But not too fat to serve as barricades ?

    6. Re:Outraged? by Sir+Holo · · Score: 1

      Jules Verne is apropos here. He wrote Paris in the Twentieth Century in 1863.

      From a review: "This novel ... shows Verne in a darker, frankly dystopian mood. His mid-20th century Paris is an enormously wealthy society, a place of technological wonders, but, like Huxley's Brave New World, it is also a society without meaningful art. Engineering and banking are the prime industries of this civilization and, as the book's protagonist discovers, not even the most talented poet can find a place for himself unless he's willing to produce odes to blast furnaces or locomotives.

  14. Jews - as usual... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    Who runs France? Why, it's those whom we cannot criticise... the eternal Jews...

    1. Re:Jews - as usual... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      France DOES have a serious nigger problem. Sand niggers too.

  15. France made it legal by tomhath · · Score: 1

    So now people can't complain that the government's intelligence gathering is illegal. Clever.

    1. Re:France made it legal by phayes · · Score: 2

      No. Every french governement since the 4th republic has legally spied on the French public with little/no reaction by the press or public. Pompidou asked Kennedy "How can you control the population whe you do not control the radio or the TV as we do?"

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
  16. The NSA get a bad rap because they take action by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    They blow up people in other country (yes the NSA and the army goes hand in hand). You have a frigging country having its tentacle everywhere and using shit like drone killing people in a group (and kids) to murder one guy they deem bad enough. France or any other spying country neither have the massive capabilities of spying of the NSA, nor have they massively used drone to assassinate people in other country.

    1. Re:The NSA get a bad rap because they take action by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

      Two words, you cheesemonkey: Rainbow Warrior.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    2. Re:The NSA get a bad rap because they take action by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      I second hognoxious: Well done France.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  17. Bad Wording by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Rather, officials say, those powers have been in place for years, and the law creates rules where there had been none, notably with regard to real-time location tracking.

    Rather, officials say, those powers have been in place for years, and the law simply legitimizes the whole thing.

    There, fixed it for you.

  18. I can has two cellphones! by LordWabbit2 · · Score: 1

    1990
    "Lets fit everyone with a radio tracking device so we know where they are at all times"
    "What, they would never allow that, it would never work"

    2013
    I can has two cellphones!

    Mission achieved

    --
    There are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third is statistics.
  19. Damn I thought our news sucked by Osgeld · · Score: 1

    French media was 'outraged'. Yet they appear to be worse then the NSA

    that's some hard core reporting!

    1. Re:Damn I thought our news sucked by lordholm · · Score: 1

      European SIGINT is much worse than the US SIGINT in many cases. While they tend to be stronger regulated, the SIGINT in Europe is effectively tapping every fiberoptic cable in the EU. NSA fiberoptic taps are on exit / entry points in the US, european state SIGINT taps the fiberoptic cables on exit / entry points of the country.

      Consequently, if I email someone in NY from California, it is likely that the email content will never pass an NSA collection point/tap. If do something similar in Europe, say email from Spain to Sweden, the message is likely to be picked up by Spanish, French, Belgian, Dutch, German, Danish and Swedish intelligence.

      --
      "Civis Europaeus sum!"
    2. Re:Damn I thought our news sucked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      and then they will make a point of sharing it between them - just in case someone missed it the first time

  20. Note: 'Then' vs. 'Than' by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just a brief note regarding the use of the words 'then' and 'than'.

    The word 'then' is a reference to a point in time.
    Examples:

    'I was the same then as now...'
    'I will see you then.'

    The word 'than' is a comparison of two objects.
    Examples:

    'A bowling ball is larger than a tennis ball.'
    'I would like these rather than those.'

    The number of times we all read these words used in the wrong context cannot
    possibly be attributed to typographical error.

    Sorry if this seems fussy. I keep feeling that I need to suspend my disbelief each time
    I see obviously bad grammar in posts.

  21. grammar fail, back to school. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    worse then the NSA

  22. Worse THAN the... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To quote The Wire:
    "...you’re confusing then and than. T-h-e-n is an adverb used to divide and measure time. 'Detective McNulty makes a mess, and then he has to clean it up.' (...) Not to be confused with t-h-a-n, which is most commonly used after a comparative adjective or adverb, as in: 'Rhonda is smarter than Jimmy.'"

  23. Dear USA... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "With the NSA disclosures, French media was 'outraged'. Yet they appear to be worse then the NSA

    Dear USA,
    You wrote these new rules, now we (and everybody else who used to be your friends and allies) will play by them. Please stop complaining, you asked for it.

    Sincerely,
    The French

    1. Re:Dear USA... by gmhowell · · Score: 1

      "With the NSA disclosures, French media was 'outraged'. Yet they appear to be worse then the NSA

      Dear USA,
      You wrote these new rules, now we (and everybody else who used to be your friends and allies) will play by them. Please stop complaining, you asked for it.

      Sincerely,
      The French

      Oh good, a nice little French poodle to go along with the British bulldog we've been toying with for years.

      Sincerely,

      'Murica. Fuck yeah.

      --
      Jesus was all right but his disciples were thick and ordinary. -John Lennon
  24. Boundaries: real vs. legal? by Walter+White · · Score: 1

    Are the French legal guidelines broader than the US legal guidelines. Broader than what the NSA and CIA are known to do? Narrower than what the French are known to do?

    Thanks to Snowden we know the US agencies have exceeded their legal boundaries (or at the very least operated in secret to avoid any legal or constitutional challenge.) What is the situation in France WRT their intelligence agencies and their laws.

  25. I commend the French govt ! by macpacheco · · Score: 1

    I don't like this practice.
    But if at least they have the balls to admit it, put in the law, and let everybody know that in France you're being watched, then I'm kind of ok with it.
    Not happy, grinning, but ok.
    At least they have the balls to be transparent.
    I wish the USA did the same, aka: "Complain all you want, but the NSA will continue to do it, if you don't want to be tracked at all, don't use the internet, don't use a cell phone, live a early 20th century live.

  26. Use != trust by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I may use GPL software, but I have now way to verify what it does. Sorry not a programmer here. So in what way could I trust any software.

    Using something is in now way inferring that I trust it.

    1. Re:Use != trust by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

      I may use GPL software, but I have no way to verify what it does. Sorry not a programmer here.

      Well I am a programmer, and I trust it even less than you do. Knowing how hard it is to figure out a problem in other people's code I am dubious my own inspection would cough up anything placed there by someone determined to obfuscate it.

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    2. Re:Use != trust by icebike · · Score: 2

      Knowing how hard it is to figure out a problem in other people's code I am dubious my own inspection would cough up anything placed there by someone determined to obfuscate it.

      This is true, its very difficult and time consuming to read even a modest amount of code.

      But add your eyes to mine, and several hundred others, (maybe thousands), and once verified, all you need do is look at changes. Look very carefully at changes.

      Its harder to obfuscate code these days, because its harder to easily turn data blocks into code blocks without attracting attention
      to the fact that you did so. DEP has found its way into almost every operating system these days.

      Still there are ways to use horribly insecure encryption while making it look secure. The hardest code to verify as being secure is precisely the code designed to provide security.

      --
      Sig Battery depleted. Reverting to safe mode.
  27. And what about the Catholics. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    If say 30 -50% of them profess their loyalty to the pope before the country then do you profile them?

    I am sorry, but you have done nothing to dissuade the notion that you are a racist hick.

    1. Re:And what about the Catholics. by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      That would depend on what the Pope told them specifically to do, of course, but the most likely answer is 'yes' anyway - we happen to know that the Catholic church is a criminal organization already, and in the area of sex crimes, there's peer pressure to hush everything up. This is more for the vice dept. of French police than for national security, though - a different threat profile.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    2. Re:And what about the Catholics. by Jah-Wren+Ryel · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If say 30 -50% of them profess their loyalty to the pope before the country then do you profile them?

      That's not comparable. The "ummah" isn't a person or even an institution, it means "community." What the racist fuck has lost his head over is the equivalent of someone saying he's 'loyal' to his fellow christians no matter what country they live in.

      --
      When information is power, privacy is freedom.
    3. Re:And what about the Catholics. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ah, the one day without mod points. +5 for you, sir.

    4. Re:And what about the Catholics. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would imagine that all Catholics profess their loyalty to the Pope. The difference is if that loyalty is greater than the loyalty to the country they live in. As you can witness for yourself you can know that it is not.

    5. Re:And what about the Catholics. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

      There is a 50/50 percent chance any random muzzie you greet will either spontaneously blow itself up or say hello to you.

      With statistics like that, you can't really blame the French gov for wanting to keep an eye on them. It's the only sensible action.

    6. Re:And what about the Catholics. by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      What the racist fuck has lost his head over is the equivalent of someone saying he's 'loyal' to his fellow christians no matter what country they live in.

      That's not exactly how he formulated it, though. What he actually meant is the equivalence of saying that he has a problem with someone being more loyal to his fellow Christians in other countries, than to his fellow non-Christian citizens.

    7. Re:And what about the Catholics. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You sound like Goebbels.

  28. Re:Note: 'Then' vs. 'Than' by lennier · · Score: 1

    Sorry if this seems fussy. I keep feeling that I need to suspend my disbelief each time
    I see obviously bad grammar in posts.

    Hey lighten up, it's not like programming is a field where you need to be able to understand syntax and type keywords exactly, right?

    --
    You are not a brain: http://books.google.com/books?id=2oV61CeDx-YC
  29. Obilgatory Claude Raines Reaction by couchslug · · Score: 2

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjbPi00k_ME

    --
    "This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
  30. The french cannot be worse than muricans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They won't spy on 90% of the world, even if their laws allow it, they are incapable of it.

  31. "then the NSA" ... did what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Then what?

  32. Say again? by JockTroll · · Score: -1

    Protection of France's "scientific and economic potential"? Does this mean they're making all those efforts to protect nothing at all?

    --
    Geeks are so full of shit that "beating the crap out of them" takes a whole new meaning.
  33. Not on my watch by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    But the Freedom Box will be located in your home.

    Exactly whatever shadowy security (and/or criminal) forces backing it are counting on...

    I wouldn't care where it is from, I'm not putting such an obviously open target to mount internal attacks on my home infrastructure in my house.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  34. The Start by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Pompidou asked Kennedy "How can you control the population when you do not control the radio or the TV as we do?"

    Thus the Democratic party's relationship to the modern day press. Thanks a ton for the suggestion Pompidou.

    At least the press do the jobs they are supposed to do when Republicans are in office, it's ashamed they are asleep at the switch the other half of the time.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:The Start by GPLHost-Thomas · · Score: 1

      Is there still a lot of people like you believing in this stupid left-right paradigm? We're well passed that, aren't we?

  35. Not sure it's any different by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    With the revelation of the NSA having collection points on an internal network between data centers, it sure seems like there's not a way to send any email within the U.S. without going through a collection point.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Not sure it's any different by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, partially so. But gmail is really a global service. My impression is that the collection points are on the taps on the fiberoptics entering and leaving the US, so the have been snooping up the traffic when googles data centers synchronise themselves over the borders.

      The point of the GP was more to illustrate a point of the nominal communication path, not to cover all the cases. If you stay away from gmail and use your own system the point is valid.

  36. We're not the USSR Really! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Maybe if you keep telling yourself that America it won't be true!
    Papers?!

  37. "Yet they appear to be worse then the NSA" by fufufang · · Score: 1

    Does the editor not understand grammar? Seriously...

    1. Re:"Yet they appear to be worse then the NSA" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sad that the same mistake is also in a related article under "You may like to read:".

    2. Re:"Yet they appear to be worse then the NSA" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nobody else cares. Did you understand what was being said? If yes, grow up and move on. If no, the problem is mostly you

  38. The French? Meh. by Lucky_Pierre · · Score: 1

    What are the French going to do? It's not like the Direction Générale de la Sécurité Extérieure is going to sink my boat..........right?

    --
    "Whenever the cause of the people is entrusted to professors, it is lost." ~ V.I. Lenin
  39. Give Firm Examples by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Obviously intense data collection can have both good and bad effects. If a government wants the public to go along with this type of spying I believe that it is vital to release lots of good outcomes to the public. It is one thing to say that one has stopped a terror attack but quite another to give details about how serious the supposed attack would have been. And on other fronts the ability to lower taxes due to tax cheaters being swept up by data gathering would make a great press release if they give real details in depth. Can we stop auto thefts to a greater degree by spying? Show us the data.
                            One problem in the US is that we have so many people locked up or on parole or probation that an ability to catch more criminals would surely generate a lot more expenses for the public to pay. Courts and jails cost a lot of money.

  40. What? by Plammox · · Score: 0

    Are you crazy? The whole EU system of bureaucratic civil servants is derived from the French public service system, with an obscene focus on French language over the other two main languages (EN, DE), much disdain for non-francophones and a general "Pfffff!"-attitude towards everyone. You ought to love it.

    1. Re:What? by manu0601 · · Score: 1

      I was not aware it was designed to make me ashamed of my own country because of the way it behaves regarding others. That will be another problem solved when the whole thing will collapse below its own weight.

  41. France is trustworthy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    France has a great track record.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior