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The Power of the Hoodie-Wearing C.E.O.

Posted by Unknown on from the kilt-qualifies-me-to-lead-the-free-world dept.

New submitter silverjacket writes "New research (JSTOR sub required / paywalled) shows that we see nonconformity as a sign of both status and competence — under the right conditions. From the article: 'Next, the researchers asked students at American universities to imagine a professor who is clean-shaven and wears a tie, or one who is bearded and wears T-shirts. Students were slightly more inclined to judge the dapper professor as a better teacher and researcher. But some students were given another piece of information: that the professor works at a top-tier school, where the dress code is presumably more formal. For them, the slouchy scholar earned more points. Deviance can signal status, but only when there are clear norms from which to deviate.'"

22 of 75 comments (clear)

  1. Students at American universities by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I know why researchers at universities use students as test subjects -- like rats, they're all around and they're cheap. And for some studies, using students is perfectly fine.

    But can we stop the practice, at least in news stories, of assuming that the attitudes of American university students apply to anyone other than American university students? Most students are stupid as rocks. They think a "slouchy scholar" is cooler? So what?

    1. Re:Students at American universities by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's a recognized problem (though, for the reasons you note, people prefer to ignore it whenever possible because college students will do any dumb survey you throw at them for peanuts), enough so that it has its own spiteful acronym.

      They call such research subjects 'WEIRD': Western, Educated, Industrialized, Rich, and Democratic. (Now, given the student debt numbers and all that neat stuff they didn't tell you about in civics class concerning how governments work, some scare quotes may be in order; but the general "asserting universal truths about human psychology based on American college students is only a few steps ahead of just introspecting and assuming that everyone thinks as you do" point is important...)

    2. Re:Students at American universities by wisnoskij · · Score: 2

      More specifically, university students who are taking one of the psychology courses that requires then to enter in X number of studies to graduate.

      No other university student has time for entering into studies.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
  2. Bunny-ears lawyer by tepples · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I haven't read all the featured articles because the kinds of institutions that have access to JSTOR are closed for weeks around Christmas. But what the article in The New Yorker calls the "red sneakers effect" is the same as what a popular literary analysis wiki calls the bunny-ears lawyer effect. I guess the idea is that if someone can keep her job despite not conforming, she must be really good at it.

    1. Re:Bunny-ears lawyer by Runaway1956 · · Score: 2

      I've sometimes wondered how conformity might be measured. Personally - I'm a non-conformist in a number of ways. I'm rather proud of that fact. I do as I damned well please, I hold my own opinions, and just don't give a rat's arse what others think about it.

      I do realize though, that I do conform to society's expectations in a number of ways.

      Where do you go to get a conformity grade? On a bell curve, where would any of us be?

      --
      "Windows is like the faint smell of piss in a subway: it's there, and there's nothing you can do about it." - Charlie Br
    2. Re:Bunny-ears lawyer by Black+Parrot · · Score: 2

      I guess the idea is that if someone can keep her job despite not conforming, she must be really good at it.

      Then there's the talking heads on the Sunday television shows, who can be wrong as often as they please and not suffer the slightest risk of losing their jobs.

      Or the investment advisors. IIRC someone tracked Cramer's buy/sell advice for a year and found that he had a 49% track record - you would have done slightly better by flipping a coin.

      --
      Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
    3. Re:Bunny-ears lawyer by lxs · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actively examining relative levels of conformity of yourself and others is probably a strong indicator. Going out of your way to be scruffy, wacky or rebellious is playing a part as much as wearing a suit and tie.
      Stop comparing yourself to others. Try to be kind, and if you can't be kind try to be polite.

    4. Re:Bunny-ears lawyer by fermion · · Score: 2
      I don't think this has to do with the implied quality of work. I think this has to do with relationships and the assumption of the power of youth. When a professor dresses up, that tends to mean that have achieved a level, the level is often a well funded lab or many graduate students, but from the point of view of the student such a person has been successful and needs the costume of success to relate to other successful people. If dressing up is a requirement, then the idea of success has gone away. Students will then prefer the person they can relate to, the person who dresses like them. Such a person is clearly more related to the culture because the 'low' dress is an authentic decision, not a desperate attempt to relate to the kids. I see this all the time in some people wearing jeans when the dress code does not really allow it. This has little to do with ability, and much to do with presentation. Even the hoodie wearing professor is about presentation,

      As far as the more general hoodie wearing CEO, this is simply about the projection of youth and being successful, or trying to be successful, at a young age. This is the college drop out who has no clothes, has no interest in clothes or cars, and is putting his or her full life resources into the building of a firm. Investors are not going to be funding this persons lifestyle, only the growth of the startup. When a startup becomes successful, the hoodie becomes the costume because that was what got the person to the top. The presentation that the money is going to the firm, not the $10,000 Italian suit.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    5. Re: Bunny-ears lawyer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Mod parent up. Explicit and overt non-conformity is a paradox.

  3. Re:this is why tattoos aren't taboo anymore... by alphatel · · Score: 2, Insightful

    everyone rocks a neck tattoo now cuz it makes them look like a rich guy who doesn't need a job and just works for "self-actualization".

    And like all symbols of perceived status, it is as useless as the hoodie or tie.

    --
    When the foot seeks the place of the head, the line is crossed. Know your place. Keep your place. Be a shoe.
  4. Context matters... by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 2

    ... when making judgments. News at 11.

    Seriously?

    Based on the summary, this study seemingly shows little about competence. It shows that students will recognize that a teacher who dresses poorly probably cares less about teaching than about other things.

    At a top university, those "other things" are likely to be research, or else the prof wouldn't be there. At a lesser college, the prof may just be a slacker in general.

    I don't see how this has much to do with perceptions of "conformity" at all.

    1. Re:Context matters... by Zakabog · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Exactly what part of teaching requires you to follow a dress code?

      From the summary it sounds like the students feel the laid back teacher must be excellent at his job for the top tier school to keep him despite not following their dress code.

    2. Re:Context matters... by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 2

      The part where you are trying to get tenure or a contract renewal.

    3. Re:Context matters... by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Exactly what part of teaching requires you to follow a dress code?

      Caring about your appearance used to be a marker of "attention to detail" in general (and still is in some circles). A person who wears the "appropriate" clothes is still seen to care enough to do the minimum for the job.

      If a person is teaching at a top university, they presumably are already perceived to be competent, so not caring about clothes might be perceived as someone who is too busy doing high-profile research to care.

      I've noticed a similar effect in email etiquette: sometimes you can command more respect from students at a high-profile university sometimes if you deliberately write abrupt emails with apparent typos. I had a colleague who did this deliberately. Taking care to write a careful, measured response with no typos means you have time to waste on email. If you have typos and a one line response, you might be too busy doing "things that matter."

      But if you do this at a community college, you're likely to just be a poor teacher who doesn't give a crap.

    4. Re:Context matters... by wolrahnaes · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Caring about your appearance used to be a marker of "attention to detail" in general (and still is in some circles). A person who wears the "appropriate" clothes is still seen to care enough to do the minimum for the job.

      The question is why a "casual" appearance is seen as "not caring". To me, not caring about your appearance is what I did in college, showing up to class wearing whatever was convenient without having showered or only having done a quick shower without attention to hair and such.

      If someone shows up to work clean and well kept, wearing clean clothes, why does something comfortable like a t-shirt and jeans strike so many as "unprofessional" compared to even khakis and a golf shirt? Why is it basically that the less comfortable the clothing, the more "professional" we consider the style?

      Shouldn't people be encouraged to be comfortable while working, as that presumably will make them more effective at their actual job?

      --
      I used to get high on life, but I developed a tolerance. Now I need something stronger.
    5. Re:Context matters... by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 2

      If someone shows up to work clean and well kept, wearing clean clothes, why does something comfortable like a t-shirt and jeans strike so many as "unprofessional" compared to even khakis and a golf shirt? Why is it basically that the less comfortable the clothing, the more "professional" we consider the style?

      First, let me be clear that I don't care what people wear. If they're competent, and their clothing isn't actually disruptive in some way, why should I care?

      However, I think you're missing a distinction here. It has nothing to do with discomfort, but rather care of the clothes. Proper upkeep of dress shirts, suits, wool pants, etc. requires careful washing, ironing, or (these days) generally dry cleaning. It also often requires more effort in tailoring, customizations, etc. to get appropriate fit. It thus actually requires significantly more effort and attention to detail to keep up a "nice" wardrobe compared to jeans and tee shirts. Even better quality khakis and golf shirts often require ironing, special washing or drying instructions, etc.

      I'm not saying we should judge people's competence on this basis, but those clothes do require more care in relation to one's appearance, which could connote to some people that you actually care enough to dress "appropriately" in some contexts.

      As for comfort, it's really a matter of preference. I like the feel of nice wool pants and a button-down shirt more than the rough cloth of denim in jeans, etc. There's nothing inherently uncomfortable for business casual clothing. I agree that some people find ties constricting to wear, but I think you're assumptions about what is "uncomfortable" is just your own perception. (A lot of people also don't pay the money to have good clothes properly tailored, and they might only wear them infrequently as their body size/shape changes, so that can also contribute to comfort level.)

    6. Re:Context matters... by davydagger · · Score: 3, Interesting

      to be honest for me its the reverse. I see people with "proffesional" image as liars and tricksters, using image to trick people, and getting away with things normal people don't.

      When someone shows up to work over-dressed, I immediately think he's compensating for lack of skill.

      When I see you act "corporate polite", or act corporate proffesional, I immediately assume your trying to swindle me out of *something*.

      I obviously also work in IT, and this attitude is pretty common.

      I think the obvious message is, if people see someoe in authority of flouts social norms, it must be, because they are so talented, social norms don't apply.

      Its a reflection from pop culture, where celebrities flaunt their deviance as signs of social prowess, a form of conspicious consumption, showing the world they are so high on the social latter, rules don't apply to them.

    7. Re:Context matters... by vux984 · · Score: 3, Insightful


      When someone shows up to work over-dressed, I immediately think he's compensating for lack of skill.

      There is the "norm". Ie. people who are dressed appropriately to the norm.

      This article is referring to people who are UNDER dressed relative to the norm and suggests that that in some circumstances this can confer additional 'status' onto them. Their primary examples appear to be harvard profs and facebook CEOs.

      You are talking about people who are OVER dressed relative to the norm, which is sort of beside the point.

      I think the obvious message is, if people see someoe in authority of flouts social norms, it must be, because they are so talented, social norms don't apply.

      This is spot on. But the article is only looking at one side of the coin. I consider dressing to the norms in most environments to be a sign of respect to the other people -- so showing up under-dressed and being able to "get away with it" may be some sort of demonstration of status... but at the same time it's likely to lower my estimation of you. I dress very casually for work, but will dress up for certain meetings not because I need to but out of respect for the people I'm meeting with and the event.

      So Zuckerberg showing up at something in a jeans and hoodie just reinforces my negative impression of him as someone who just doesn't respect anyone else around him. An impression that started with him hoovering student profiles into the initial facebook without their consent and that has only been solidified since then. So while I recognize that he can get away with it, it doesn't raise my estimation of him as a person in the least.

      University profs ... I'm not really sure where that's coming from. That was the full range; from shorts and sandals with a beard to clean shaven suits. There was maybe some correlation with subject matter -- the business related electives I took (Economics, Organizational Behaviour and Psychology, etc) were more likely to be taught by suits than programming language and compiler design, but there really wasn't a correlation with tenure. The "norm" at university was that the profs generally wore whatever the hell they liked and were comfortable with. And the same went for the students. I certainly didn't dress up for lectures, and I didn't expect them to dress up for me.

      Everyone was more or less beyond correlating image with competency. Maybe that was just my university experience. Maybe harvard is different.

  5. Re:Research Topic: Why I don't have to dress for w by houstonbofh · · Score: 2

    My question is: How does such seemingly-ridiculous research get approved for funding? Can we not spend that money on greater good?

    For the same reason we have "zero tolerance policies" in schools... We do not trust the people making decisions to make them well. So we set up an arbitrary set of standards that can be gamed, and remove the capability of intervention from the people we do not trust, but decide to give the job anyway...

  6. Re: top-tier school != better researcher/teacher by Black+Parrot · · Score: 2

    I wholeheartedly agree. The fact that dressing casually is seen as non-conformist is from the perspective of people who value appearance over substance.

    When people ask whether I would cut my hair for a job I tell them "maybe so, but I wouldn't want to work for anyone who asked me to".

    --
    Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
  7. "under the right conditions" by koan · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When you make a profit it is accepted.

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
  8. No surprise by ChromeAeonium · · Score: 2

    There's an old saying: 'The rich are eccentric, the poor are crazy.' This is just another variant of that trope. How oddity is perceived is dependent not on the attributes of the oddity, but on the attributes of the person displaying it.