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NSA Drowns In Useless Data, Impeding Work, Former Employee Claims

An anonymous reader writes in with this story of confusion at the NSA due to the flood of data they harvest. "Some of the documents released by Mr. Snowden detail concerns inside the NSA about drowning in information. An internal briefing document in 2012 about foreign cellphone-location tracking by the agency said the efforts were 'outpacing our ability to ingest, process and store' data. In March 2013, some NSA analysts asked for permission to collect less data through a program called Muscular because the 'relatively small intelligence value it contains does not justify the sheer volume of collection,' another document shows. In response to questions about Mr. Binney's claims, an NSA spokeswoman says the agency is 'not collecting everything, but we do need the tools to collect intelligence on foreign adversaries who wish to do harm to the nation and its allies.'"

17 of 120 comments (clear)

  1. Solution... by msauve · · Score: 4, Funny

    Simply build a new $1.5 billion data center to process the collected data.

    --
    "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
  2. It's not actually a problem. by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 5, Funny

    Because it's only simulated drowning.

    1. Re: It's not actually a problem. by Hangtime · · Score: 3, Informative

      That's because "data management practitioners" spend their time practicing data management. I bet if you asked the "data analysts" about it, they'd say most of the important work dealing with data is in the analysis, but they still need to waste 20% of their time on data preparation and integration.

      Actually the number we quote is analysts spend 60 - 80% of their time manually prepping their data for analysis if they don't have a solution in place. Its a BIG problem. Just because you can ingest everything in the world doesn't mean you should.

  3. same old same old by minstrelmike · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think this is the problem at most companies. Once someone in charge has a "good" idea, then no one else can point out how stupid it is. Collecting data is easy, cheap. Analyzing it is what is expensive. And useful. Collecting unanalyzed data is a waste of time and effort. Period.
    And the first analysis is: what sort of data should we collect to make analysis easier? But of course, if people actually analyzed the process itself, someone would have already pointed out that the only way to measure cost-effectiveness is to have an actual goal in mind. Collecting everything you can get your hands is an easy goal to state.

    Stating why all that data will help you prevent attacks on America instead of being viewed as an attack on Americans is a whole lot harder to articulate.

    Same old same old.
    It's a lot easier to invade a country than it is to state what peace would really have to look like.

    1. Re:same old same old by deconfliction · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Collecting unanalyzed data is a waste of time and effort. Period.

      It is much, much worse than that. Collecting unalyzed data that, in more nefarious hands, can be used for extortion and political manipulation, in part because it was collected en-masse, is a criminal violation of spirit of the 4th ammendment to the U.S. constitution, if not the interpretable letter of it.

      Not only that, but if in order to collect it, you had weaken the security systems used by the masses for their communications, you are basically making all those systems easier to attack for everyone. This is what has happened, both directly with things like the $10M to RSA, and indirectly, just by having a quid-pro-quo where all the tech companies are blissfully happy to not invest in real security for their users, because the more influential government overlords are totally cool with it. They leak the vulnerabilities they discover that they want fixed, and enjoy a massive trove of vulnerabilities they keep for themselves (and unknown numbers of others clever enough to discover them as well)

    2. Re:same old same old by greenbird · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It is much, much worse than that. Collecting unalyzed data that, in more nefarious hands, can be used for extortion and political manipulation,

      Ummm...that's the whole point of collecting the data. It has nothing to do with national security. That's just the cover. It's about power and control.

      --
      Who is John Galt?
  4. Real Message: by some+old+guy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We have all this yummy data we gorged on, and we can't digest it all.

    Obviously, we need a bigger budget for more contractor analysts and hiring Google to write better analytical tools.

    --
    Scruting the inscrutable for over 50 years.
  5. Wasn't that the problem by wbr1 · · Score: 5, Interesting
    Here: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/homefront/view/

    The NSA knew about some of the 9-11 hijackers, but it was lost in the noise (and in lack of interdepartmental information sharing). The solution, suck in more noise? Makes little sense to me.

    --
    Silence is a state of mime.
    1. Re:Wasn't that the problem by ebno-10db · · Score: 4, Funny

      Makes little sense to me.

      You're obviously too intelligent to get very far in intelligence work.

  6. Re:the answer: collect useless data by flaming+error · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yep. When your job is to find a needle, the best strategy is always to pay top dollar for a few million haystacks and see if there are any needles there.

  7. You Should Have Those Tools by Bob9113 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "we do need the tools to collect intelligence on foreign adversaries who wish to do harm to the nation and its allies."

    Ahh, good, something we can agree on. You should have those tools. And you do have them, even without the dragnets. Here's how they work:

    1. Pick the person who you believe wishes to do harm to the nation and its allies.
    2. Start collecting surveillance.
    3. Present to an appropriately skeptical judge the reasons that you believe that person wishes to do harm to the nation and its allies.
    4. The judge will decide whether your evidence amounts to reasonable suspicion.
    5. As long as the judge agrees, you can continue the surveillance.

    It's a pretty cool system, really. It ensures that you get the surveillance on people who really do appear to be up to something, while protecting the vast majority of people who are innocent.

  8. misinformation campaign by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Yeah, this 'employee' is claiming that they actually asked to collect less but were forced against their will to collect more than they can handle? Flat out bullshit.

    They know the cats out of the bag so now they're just going to run with "We've got more information than we can use, so you really have nothing to worry about us hoarding all your data and in fact the more we collect the safer you are!"

    Where have we seen this before? Oh that's right, "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!"

    (captcha: seducing)

  9. The sock puppets have new talking points by AHuxley · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We are back to the pre Snowden classic - too much information.
    This has never been a problem due to fast sorting, keywords, voice prints, numbers called and cheap storage.
    GCHQ and the NSA could get every call from Intelsat back the late 1960's for sorting and indexing. Once you have the total 'in' and 'out' points of any nation as its telco networks is constructed: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2013/08/dea-and-nsa-team-intelligence-laundering shows how easy a lifetime of collection can be and looks like under one small program :)

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  10. Re:All standards are tested but some standards are by cold+fjord · · Score: 3, Insightful

    That's all very nice, but be clear -

    Bruce Schneier: Crypto works.

    --
    much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
  11. The point is that they can target YOU by Daniel+Hoffmann · · Score: 5, Interesting

    This mass collection is not about what they can process or correlate with terrorism or whatever. This massive amount is dangerous because they can target individuals. You simply can not assume that all this power will be used for the good of the nation, the inner workings of this huge system are manned by humans. They are prone to corruption, bribery, self interest and so on.

    This much power with this little accountability is just bound to be used for personal gain. Imagine if some worker of this system decides he really does not like his neighbor guts. He could target that individual and discover that for example he is having an affair and the disclose that information to cause harm to that individual in particular. Well change that neighbor to some politician that is contrary to the current governing party.

    The funny thing is that Metal Gear Solid 2 foretold all this more than a decade ago.

  12. Never, but Never by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 3, Interesting

    In response to questions about Mr. Binney's claims, an NSA spokeswoman says the agency is 'not collecting everything, but we do need the tools to collect intelligence on foreign adversaries who wish to do harm to the nation and its allies.'

    ,
    But never, ever dare ask why so many wish to do harm to the Imperial Us and our henchman, upon pain of treasonous death.